D.O. or Caribbean?

[appraisme]

---

Members don't see this ad.

hey i just discovered this site. What an awesome idea! Well i was hoping to get some advice from people who are in my situation. I did really really bad on the MCAT's this april (21) and now am deciding to apply to either D.O. or caribbean. Is the caribbean looked downed upon? I don't think i have good enough stats to apply to D.O. but I really don't want to take the MCAT over. I work full time in my own business as a real estate appraiser. My GPA is 3.56. I've work all through college at least 20 hours a week. My dad past away last year so i had to work full time. I've worked as a file clerk for two years at the medical clinic where i ran a small office on my own. I volunteered at the inpatient pharmacy for a year at the veterans hospital. I also volunteered at the women's health specialist for a year where i learned to do all sorts of neat stuff like: giving shots, drawing blood, lab test, check patients out, examine abortion tissues. I plan on shadowing a D.O. this month. Please tell me what to do? Anyone!!!

 

[Cowboy DO]

I would apply to DO schools only if thats what you really want. You are right however your MCAT is alittle low, so I would plan on taking that again. You can give it a shot this year though, way crazier things have happend, but I would hold off on applying to Carribean schools until the next cycle after you see how you do on the MCAT again. I know that test sucks but what can you do? Thats just my opinion though. Try doing a search on this subject theres a ton of stuff on here.

 

[crazy250]

apply to wide range of DO schools and foreign schools and see where you can get in. people have gotten into DO schools with 21 mcats. but you have to show that you are committed to osteopathy and not merely applying to them because of your low mcat.

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

I think you have to go DO on this one, although I don't have a lot to base this on other than the feedback I rec'd when I had to decide.

I decided to go DO, but what is good for me may not be good for you. I am married and I have 2 kids, logistically it just wasn't happeneing (Ross for example). I also heard about other obstacles, but you must already know that any obstacle can be negotiated with the right attitude and preparation...so ultimately its just a matter of personal preference, convenience, and attitude.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[flighterdoc]

apply to wide range of DO schools and foreign schools and see where you can get in. people have gotten into DO schools with 21 mcats. but you have to show that you are committed to osteopathy and not merely applying to them because of your low mcat.

Is there a list of typical MCAT/GPA's for the various DO schools?

 

[Fin-Nor]

mcat is low. if medicine is what you really what, why are you holding back on the mcat?

1 day vs lifetime...

 

[Ryan]

I must agree with JMC with a caveat...the greater portion IMG (International Medical Grads) are usually given the "left overs" when it comes to residency. Also in your third and fourth years, you are basically TOTALLY on your own as for setting up the rotations. Now that is not to say that IMGs do not receive a good medical education, however there are several states like FL and NY that will not allow you to do a residency in their state but will eventually allow you to practice if you become licensed in another state. All in all there are MANY more hurdles to overcome when coming in through the Caribbean than going DO. Those who do make it have my great respect but are generally looked down upon, more so by patients (if they ever notice) than actual colleagues. Don't worry about prestige and listen to what JMC said. It is a personal decision, but one that must be made with a full understanding of what you are getting into. I was accepted into a fairly prestigious MD institution, but my heart belongs to Osteopathic Medicine. Perhaps because a wonderful DO helped GREATLY increase the quality of life for my mother the last few years of her life, maybe it is just the Spirit of community and camaraderie I feel between the DOs that I know. All I know is that I am Happy and will gain an education that will allow me to be a great physician, whatever specialty I choose...and in the end those are things that matter most to me.

🙂 Good luck and don't worry so much, retake the MCAT, but I would say STILL apply NOW and see what happens! Even if you don't get in on the first try, I am sure you will greatly increase your MCAT and that will open all the doors you need?and if you get in on the first try GOOD JOB, BE HAPPY.

-Ryan DO (2008)

 

[here atlast]

hey i just discovered this site. What an awesome idea! Well i was hoping to get some advice from people who are in my situation. I did really really bad on the MCAT's this april (21) and now am deciding to apply to either D.O. or caribbean. Is the caribbean looked downed upon? I don't think i have good enough stats to apply to D.O. but I really don't want to take the MCAT over. I work full time in my own business as a real estate appraiser. My GPA is 3.56. I've work all through college at least 20 hours a week. My dad past away last year so i had to work full time. I've worked as a file clerk for two years at the medical clinic where i ran a small office on my own. I volunteered at the inpatient pharmacy for a year at the veterans hospital. I also volunteered at the women's health specialist for a year where i learned to do all sorts of neat stuff like: giving shots, drawing blood, lab test, check patients out, examine abortion tissues. I plan on shadowing a D.O. this month. Please tell me what to do? Anyone!!!

I was in a some what similar situation too! I decided to attend an osteopathic awareness conference and talk to people that went to carribean schools. One of my best hs friends went to saint george, She told me to stay here if i can...bec it is really though in many aspects to go there. Second, when i went to osteopathic conference i realized that their philosophy was much closer to my vision of medicine, So i decided to apply only to DO schools. I applied to 7 and got interview to all 7, and got accepted to my first choice. My Mcat was only few points higher than yours, and my GPA was ok. With your experiences i think you have a good shot for Do schools, but make sure you know what it is about! I would recommend going to an osteopathic awareness conferense/workshop....Dont just go for DO bec you have no other option! make an educated choice! good luck!

 

[Ryan]

Is there a list of typical MCAT/GPA's for the various DO schools?

Here is current list, If anyone can referecne and fill in the blanks it would be appreciated 🙂
-Ryan

MEDICAL SCHOOL AVG. MCAT AVG. GPA
AZCOM Unpublished Unpublished
KCOM 8.5 3.53
CCOM Unpublished Unpublished
DMU 8.4 3.50
KCCOM (UHS) 8.0 3.48
LECOM Unpublished Unpublished
LECOM-Bradenton, FL OPENED 2004
MSU-COM 8.2 3.55
NYCOM 8.0 3.42
NSU 8.0 3.42
OUCOM 8.0* 3.40*
OSU-COM 8.7 3.62
PCOM 8.0 3.39
PCOM-Atlanta, GA OPENS 2005
PCSOM 7.5 3.31
TUCOM 8.7 3.50
TUCOM-Henderson, NV OPENED 2004
UMDNJ 8.7 3.50
UNE 8.1 3.31
TCOM 8.7 3.54
VCOM 7.6 3.39
WVCOM 7.4 3.37
COMP 8.6 3.38



*OUCOM does not publish thier actual stats. However they give these statistics to tell applicants what is COMPETITIVE at thier school...thus these are not actual averages but what one needs to be considerd "COMPETITIVE"

 

[irish79]

I heard that the incoming class for AZCOM (2008) had an average MCAT of 27...

 

[flighterdoc]

Here is current list, If anyone can referecne and fill in the blanks it would be appreciated 🙂
-Ryan

MEDICAL SCHOOL AVG. MCAT AVG. GPA
AZCOM Unpublished Unpublished
KCOM 8.5 3.53
CCOM Unpublished Unpublished
DMU 8.4 3.50
KCCOM (UHS) 8.0 3.48
LECOM Unpublished Unpublished
LECOM-Bradenton, FL OPENED 2004
MSU-COM 8.2 3.55
NYCOM 8.0 3.42
NSU 8.0 3.42
OUCOM 8.0* 3.40*
OSU-COM 8.7 3.62
PCOM 8.0 3.39
PCOM-Atlanta, GA OPENS 2005
PCSOM 7.5 3.31
TUCOM 8.7 3.50
TUCOM-Henderson, NV OPENED 2004
UMDNJ 8.7 3.50
UNE 8.1 3.31
TCOM 8.7 3.54
VCOM 7.6 3.39
WVCOM 7.4 3.37
COMP 8.6 3.38



*OUCOM does not publish thier actual stats. However they give these statistics to tell applicants what is COMPETITIVE at thier school...thus these are not actual averages but what one needs to be considerd "COMPETITIVE"

Thanks!

 

[PACtoDOC]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in the context of medical training, having to retake and restudy for the MCAT is minor in comparrison to the dedication it takes to make it through medical school. This is not the time to start taking the easy way out unless you have no other options. DO school ideally should be an option only if it interests you. Otherwise you may be miserable there. My advice would be to buckle down, take a review course, and just do better. Its a big game and one that is not really much fun, but its a good test of whether or not you can buckle down once you make it into med school. My situation was that I did not want to waste another year of my life, so I settled on applying to lower tiered MD and one DO school. I was accepted to both but loved the DO school. It fit me. Go visit a DO school if you are curious. I would rule out the Carib unless you cannot improve your score or get into a DO school after that. Good luck.

 

[Ryan]

appraisme,

Are you noticing a trend in advice here?....Go where you will be happy and do what it takes to get there. You CAN DO IT! 🙂 👍
-Ryan

 

[Robz]

I'll continue the trend too.

On these boards depending on what forum you post to you will get 50 different answers. The common thread is you can make it happen for you. If you buckle down suck it up and hit the grind stone...it may be a bit of time but you will get there...MD / DO / IMG whatever you want man.

With that being said I at one time looked into the caribbean. In fact I looked into ross and SGU. I eventually only was going to apply to SGU. This was a while back 99ish and my organic professor told me about DO. I didn't know much about it but I kept it an option cause he is an uber smart professor.

Anyway, I didn't do so hot on my MCAT the first time and I went and worked in Orlando for a bit until I could take it again. I put out feelers again at schools and SGU called me multiple times....no joke for over a year straight...they had residents call me....and students call me..and usually I talked to them just to shoot the crap. They were all VERY nice.

Anyway, this last year I shadowed around 10 physicians MD and DO to get a good feel for office practices. Those experiences really opened my eyes to the world of medicine and I knew after the shadowing what my priorites in my applications were. For me...I decided to apply MD and DO ...and pick the best school under criteria I set down on paper. Some was cool stuff like cost of tuition and living and others things on the paper was access to good airports and diverse big city populations. I declined to pursue info on the caribbean schools after I was accepted to a few US medical schools. I made my decision on where I wanted to go out of my acceptances and I have be pretty damn happy.

Moral is....do what you have to do for YOU. Research the hell out of everything. Make sure you are making the right choice and you are happy. I know I did and I will get to do what I want to and I'm gonna work my ass off. Work hard and enjoy the ride no matter how hard it is. Its a lot of money and hard work to get to the promise land.

 

[DoHzA]

don't u just hate when people put caribbean and do on par w/ each other...that really makes my backside burn

 

[!dr_nick!]

I dislike DO being considered inferior period. I scored in the 90th percentile on the mcat and opted to only apply to DO schools. Although I could have been happy at an MD school, DO was right for me.

 

[med26]

Apply to NYCOM. They take most people, unless they don't end up losing your file.

 

[Robz]

Apply to NYCOM. They take most people, unless they don't end up losing your file.

posted from above....
NYCOM 8.0 3.42

The MCAT average is still above a 21 man.....

 

[OSUdoc08]

Just retake the MCAT in August. I went up 4 points randomly without studying when I did.

 

[bostongirl22]

I considered Caribbean schools too, but after talking to my advisor she made me aware of DO schools. I did ok on the MCAT (26), so I decided to apply to both MD and DO schools. I'm currently going to be a MSIII at UNECOM and am very happy with my decision to go to a DO school. I would try to stay in the US if you can. 🙂

 

[bookite]

I must agree with JMC with a caveat...the greater portion IMG (International Medical Grads) are usually given the "left overs" when it comes to residency. Also in your third and fourth years, you are basically TOTALLY on your own as for setting up the rotations. Now that is not to say that IMGs do not receive a good medical education, however there are several states like FL and NY that will not allow you to do a residency in their state but will eventually allow you to practice if you become licensed in another state. All in all there are MANY more hurdles to overcome when coming in through the Caribbean than going DO. Those who do make it have my great respect but are generally looked down upon, more so by patients (if they ever notice) than actual colleagues. Don't worry about prestige and listen to what JMC said. It is a personal decision, but one that must be made with a full understanding of what you are getting into. I was accepted into a fairly prestigious MD institution, but my heart belongs to Osteopathic Medicine. Perhaps because a wonderful DO helped GREATLY increase the quality of life for my mother the last few years of her life, maybe it is just the Spirit of community and camaraderie I feel between the DOs that I know. All I know is that I am Happy and will gain an education that will allow me to be a great physician, whatever specialty I choose...and in the end those are things that matter most to me.

🙂 Good luck and don't worry so much, retake the MCAT, but I would say STILL apply NOW and see what happens! Even if you don't get in on the first try, I am sure you will greatly increase your MCAT and that will open all the doors you need?and if you get in on the first try GOOD JOB, BE HAPPY.

-Ryan DO (2008)

You might want to get a different side of the story from people who have been there. If you go to the one of Big three schools many problems are avoided. They set up your rotations, you can rotate in NY and FL, and respect is earned not given even as a DO.
You can find more information on http://www.valuemd.com/

 

[theDr.]

"They set up your rotations, you can rotate in NY and FL, and respect is earned not given even as a DO."

What a ignorant statment -- your quite the fool. I live in the northeast I know personally numerous DOs who are in top positions in the surrounding areas at many respectable institutions. I respect anybody who dedicates their life to medicine and the service of others regardless if they are a DO, MD, PA, nurse, emt...etc, etc. What a complete fool -- ignorance is bliss my friend -- truly.

Like any other education, it is what you make of it. If you do what you need to do to succeed, you can become any type of doctor you wish -- regardless if the degree you earn is a MD or a DO. thats all it is, a stupid degree. It means nothing until you apply it to something.

 

[raptor5]

If you go to the one of Big three schools many problems are avoided.

What are the Big Three schools?

 

[Ryan]

You might want to get a different side of the story from people who have been there. If you go to the one of Big three schools many problems are avoided. They set up your rotations, you can rotate in NY and FL, and respect is earned not given even as a DO.
You can find more information on http://www.valuemd.com/

UH? 😕 I don't get it your point. Did I infer that respect isn't earned? 😳 If so, sorry that was not my intent. Also who are "The Big Three"?
-Thanks 😀
If you are refering to ACU/Ross/St. George...I know that they set up rotations for you...Sorry I should have made that clear in my original post....many other Carrib schools do not do quite as well (MATTs and all the rest other than the big three).

btw: in my original post I said RESIDENCY not rotation for FL and NY...no hard feelings though 🙂

 

[(nicedream)]

"They set up your rotations, you can rotate in NY and FL, and respect is earned not given even as a DO."

What a ignorant statment -- your quite the fool. I live in the northeast I know personally numerous DOs who are in top positions in the surrounding areas at many respectable institutions. I respect anybody who dedicates their life to medicine and the service of others regardless if they are a DO, MD, PA, nurse, emt...etc, etc. What a complete fool -- ignorance is bliss my friend -- truly.

Like any other education, it is what you make of it. If you do what you need to do to succeed, you can become any type of doctor you wish -- regardless if the degree you earn is a MD or a DO. thats all it is, a stupid degree. It means nothing until you apply it to something.

Read what he said again. Respect is EARNED not GIVEN. He wasn't saying anything about DO's not being respected.

 

[theDr.]

Yes, maybe i did mis-read it a bit. But none-the-less, respect is earned no-matter where you go, what degree you have, and how you got it. I just hate how people constantly search for ways to categorize people. If your a good doctor, then your a good doctor no matter where you graduated from or what your degree is.

 

[DrRichardKimble]

I agree.... Respect is earned no matter where you graduate from. That post was too vague to interpret.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

If you're going to "settle" DO or Carribean and not do it for the love of one or the other... I'd say go Carribean. The reason being, you're going to have to live with explaining what a DO is to people and with those letters behind your name and if you're not really behind it and only do it because you screwed your MCAT, go Carribean and once you're an MD, it'll be over.

I've wanted DO since I started pursuing medicine because my mentor is a DO. So judge carefully, and think about 10 years from now.

 

[Cowboy DO]

If you're going to "settle" DO or Carribean and not do it for the love of one or the other... I'd say go Carribean. The reason being, you're going to have to live with explaining what a DO is to people and with those letters behind your name and if you're not really behind it and only do it because you screwed your MCAT, go Carribean and once you're an MD, it'll be over.

I've wanted DO since I started pursuing medicine because my mentor is a DO. So judge carefully, and think about 10 years from now.

I mostly agree with this statement. But I think you need to take more into account. For instance Its easier to place into a residency going DO, so if youre looking ten years down the road you might want to take that into consideration. Also just because the public sees the MD doesnt mean that your colleagues wont know where you went to school and whatever stigma follows that. But OMWT is right if you just settle for DO you wont be happy. But then, are you happy if you settle for anything?

 

[(nicedream)]

If you're going to "settle" DO or Carribean and not do it for the love of one or the other... I'd say go Carribean. The reason being, you're going to have to live with explaining what a DO is to people and with those letters behind your name and if you're not really behind it and only do it because you screwed your MCAT, go Carribean and once you're an MD, it'll be over.

I've wanted DO since I started pursuing medicine because my mentor is a DO. So judge carefully, and think about 10 years from now.

I disagree with the suggestion that once you're an MD, any possibly stigma is gone. People still ask where you went to school, especially others in the field, and people still see your diploma. In addition, the effects of going to the carribbean can be a lot more detrimental if you're interested in a specialty - it might prevent you from getting into your specialty altogether.

 

[PACtoDOC]

The bottom line is that if you are having to settle for a Carib program or settle for a DO program, then you probably are not likely to make a 360 degree turn and start kicking a$$ on basic sciences anyway. Statistically speaking you are more likely to score average or less on your USMLE anyway no matter where you go at this point, so go where you think you will be happiest. Most DO's or Carib grads that land great residencies do it with killer USMLE scores like US MD grads anyway, but this is not all that common. I expect there will be around 10 people in my DO class to break 240 on the USMLE whereas Carib programs there are probably even fewer. Maybe you just had a bad MCAT day and you know you are more than capable of doing well in class and on boards. If so, give the MCAT one more try. Don't go DO unless you simply like the idea of the philosophy to at least some degree. Otherwise you will live with that forever.

 

[raspberry swirl]

my advice to you is to apply this year-- you never know what will happen. i know people who were waitlisted and then got in with scores just like yours. but i would also plan on retaking that MCAT. Its not always as hard as you think it is to bump it up a few points. just hitting the 25 mark makes a big difference (as does hitting the 30 mark, etc) and sometimes all you need is a better night's sleep. as far as DO vs Caribbean, thats simply a personal choice that you're going to have to sort out on your own. there is no harm in applying to a few of each, and throw in a state MD school or something (just because you never know). getting into medical school is a total crapshoot anyway.

some people are happy being DOs, some are not (i think most are), some people think caribbean is the only way to go. some regret their decision their whole life. there is no way to really tell how it will all end up. however, if you go caribbean, make sure it is a reputable one (ie Ross). some of them sound a tad sketchy. once you get interviews, etc., it wont be as hard to make your decision. usually a particular school will just feel right to you, and the choice will make itself (or you will only get into one place, so thats just where you go 🙄 ) good luck!

 

[Peace&Health]

I hear you when you say you don't want to take the MCAT again...

I know that with carribean schools, at least what I've learned two years ago, you can apply sometime in Feb for entry in the fall. They also take new students by semester, not by school year. You can even apply for Jan entrance (at leasat to SGU).

So if you really want to be a DO, then apply NOW and see where that takes you. If other parts of your app are good, you may still have a shot. You should have some idea of where you stand by next Feb. Also you can explain in your interviews why your MCATS aren't so hot--maybe standardize tests aren't your thing.

If things don't look good next feb, and you haven't retaken the MCAT, then apply to carribean schools. I know that you'll get the training you need to be a doc, however, I think it ends up being more expensive. I have a friend who went there and she felt her preparation was sufficient.

Good-luck...keep your eyes on the goal!

 

[DoctorDoogie4]

In regards to the medical school question, no matter where you go you are going to have to work your tail off. From my experience, I have heard and seen DOs getting a residency easier than the Caribs. However, there are some programs that prefer Caribs over DOs. No matter what, pick a school that best fits you and work HARD. Kick butt in school, on the boards, and in rotations. Hard work will be rewarded in the end.

I hear you when you say you don't want to take the MCAT again...

I know that with carribean schools, at least what I've learned two years ago, you can apply sometime in Feb for entry in the fall. They also take new students by semester, not by school year. You can even apply for Jan entrance (at leasat to SGU).

So if you really want to be a DO, then apply NOW and see where that takes you. If other parts of your app are good, you may still have a shot. You should have some idea of where you stand by next Feb. Also you can explain in your interviews why your MCATS aren't so hot--maybe standardize tests aren't your thing.

If things don't look good next feb, and you haven't retaken the MCAT, then apply to carribean schools. I know that you'll get the training you need to be a doc, however, I think it ends up being more expensive. I have a friend who went there and she felt her preparation was sufficient.

Good-luck...keep your eyes on the goal!

 

[OSUdoc08]

I disagree. There aren't any domestic residencies that prefer carribean graduates over DO's unless they are affiliated with the international school.

In fact, residencies aren't allowed by the ACGME to discriminate between DO's & MD's regarding acceptance to residency. They can, however, limit the amount of international graduates.

 

[daelroy]

A 21 MCAT is low even for a DO school. You may have no choice but to attend a school like St. George.

If you have read my posts, you know that I think there is no real advantage to attending the Carribean aside from gaining an MD label and to me that is not really a significant advantage these days. Patients are gained through referrals not through the inspection of initials. No one chooses a physician out of the yellow pages unles it is an emergency case, and you don't want those types of patients anyway. If a physician is referred, it is highly unlikely that he is referred to as John Smith MD or John Smith DO. He is most likely referred to as Dr. Smith. And if you are worried about being discriminated upon as a resident or medical student during rotations, simply don't wear the DO initials on your coat; you don't have wear to them. You can just have Dr. next to your name and patients will never know.

Again, let's end this silly debate where there is none. The Caribbean is simply an inferior option in regards to attending a DO school. If you are forced to attending the Caribbean, note that there is nothing wrong with going that route. But you should only attend a Carribbean school if you can't get into a DO school. If you can't get into a DO school then attend St. George, Ross and AUC in that order and don't consider any other school. Being an IMG doesn't mean you will be permanently banned from specializing or anything like that. However, you are at a statistical disadvantage as an IMG when compared to being a DO in regards to specialzing, geographical location and rotating during your last two years of medical school. To me, it's not worth that statistical disadvantage all for the sake of some initials that most likely will have no bearing on your career anyway.

Finally, don't listen to the rumors. There are DO's all over this country. If someone says that DO's don't practice in their city; they are probably lying. A simple search on the internet will clear that up. Also, if someone says that DO's don't specialize in the most rare fields, that too is a lie and your search will clarify that as well. The reason why you don't see as many DO's in existence is for one simple reason. There are only 20 DO schools (many of which were created in only the last 20 years). There are far less osteopathic physicians in practice when compared to MD's for this reason. It has nothing to do with DO's being denied the right to practice or any other nonsense.

I would only discourage someone from seeking a DO if he or she was hellbent on specializing in opthalmology, neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, and urology. While it is true that DO's do secure these fields; they secure them mostly in their osteopathic versions of these residencies, and there simply aren't enough osteopathic versions of these residencies in existance. So if you know that you couldn't be happy doing anything other than one of these fields, then neither the DO or Carribbean MD is your best route. You should reapply to a U.S. MD school because yours odds of securing one of the specific fields I listed above increase with being a U.S. MD.

 

[daelroy]

I would like to add one more thing. We always discuss the fact that there are some patients who refuse to see DO's. And while it is true that a few patients will only see an MD; the flipside is also true. Many DO's will tell you of patients that only prefer to see DO's because of their reputation for being more personable and patient. I have heard from people say that they only see DO's because they don't have the same stuffy attitude as MD's. Now, I don't agree with their opinion. I think the inidividual not his training determines how he or she treats patients. There are bad DO's just as there are great MD'.s My only point is that there are positive stereotypes that favor DO's as well even if they aren't valid. So in the end, it all balances out. I'm suprised no one has discussed this trend. As a future DO, you will get some patients that only prefer to see DO's.

 

[BamaAlum]

In fact, residencies aren't allowed by the ACGME to discriminate between DO's & MD's regarding acceptance to residency. They can, however, limit the amount of international graduates.

What?? Residency programs most certainly can and do discriminate between DO's and MD's. Now whether they come right out and say so is a different story. Many program directors out there still regard the DO degree as inferior. This is especially prevalent in the super competitive specialties. This discrimination is decreasing, but it is still there. Stellar DO students have an easier time but even these students often find that the doors are effectively closed at certain institutions.

 

[daelroy]

What?? Residency programs most certainly can and do discriminate between DO's and MD's. Now whether they come right out and say so is a different story. Many program directors out there still regard the DO degree as inferior. This is especially prevalent in the super competitive specialties. This discrimination is decreasing, but it is still there. Stellar DO students have an easier time but even these students often find that the doors are effectively closed at certain institutions.

This is a great point and something many DO's are in denial of. Just go to the surgery forums and ask the DO's who matched into competitive allopathic surgical residencies how many hurdles they had to overcome that their allopathic counterparts didn't have to endure. DO students do match competitive allopathic residencies but they have to be that much better than the allopathic applicants they are competing with. These DO's are the exception and not the rule. They are superstars who have lots of published research as well as great networking skills or connections. Most allopathic MD students have pretty much their choice of residencies if they score above 240 on Step 1 and make AOA. On the other hand, a DO in the top 10% of his or her class with a 240 Step I score can't feel as safe about his or her chances. It's not an equal playing field that some DO's would have you believe. Obviously, it depends on the field to which you are speaking of. DO's rarely face any discrimination in regards to matching in primary care fields and some specialties like anesthesiology and PM&R. But when you start looking at the most competitive surgical fields like Optho, Plastics, EN, Urology and Neurosurgery, it's an entirely different story. There are just too many amazying MD applicants to choose from so many but not all PD's feel they have no choice but to discriminate against the DO label. Again, these are for the most very competitive fields than most U.S. MD applicants fail to match.

 

[Popoy]

Quick comment....

If there is any questions in your mind regarding doing a DO vs. Caribbean.... I say do Carribean, in my humble opinion....

Good luck

 

[PACtoDOC]

If I were single, and young, I would certainly choose the Carib programs unless I really wanted to learn 2 years of manip training and attain the DO degree. Medical school is 90% self study anyway, and if you know you are smart enough to pass the USMLE, you will be fine. How can you argue with 2 years at the beach?!!!!

 

[OSUdoc08]

What?? Residency programs most certainly can and do discriminate between DO's and MD's. Now whether they come right out and say so is a different story. Many program directors out there still regard the DO degree as inferior. This is especially prevalent in the super competitive specialties. This discrimination is decreasing, but it is still there. Stellar DO students have an easier time but even these students often find that the doors are effectively closed at certain institutions.

It may occur, but that doesn't mean it is legal.

 

[OSUdoc08]

If I were single, and young, I would certainly choose the Carib programs unless I really wanted to learn 2 years of manip training and attain the DO degree. Medical school is 90% self study anyway, and if you know you are smart enough to pass the USMLE, you will be fine. How can you argue with 2 years at the beach?!!!!

It's not as easy as just taking the USMLE at a foreign medical school. It is as a D.O.

I know a very intelligent foreign medical graduate who is working as a nurse in a nursing home who still can't get a license to practice in the U.S.

As a D.O., not only are you a more compassionate physician who has all the qualifications of an M.D. (plus more in the same amount of time,) but you are already allowed to practice in the U.S.

Unfortunately, some of you M.D.'s who live in low D.O. areas do not understand the importance of our profession.

 

[OSUdoc08]

This is a great point and something many DO's are in denial of. Just go to the surgery forums and ask the DO's who matched into competitive allopathic surgical residencies how many hurdles they had to overcome that their allopathic counterparts didn't have to endure. DO students do match competitive allopathic residencies but they have to be that much better than the allopathic applicants they are competing with. These DO's are the exception and not the rule. They are superstars who have lots of published research as well as great networking skills or connections. Most allopathic MD students have pretty much their choice of residencies if they score above 240 on Step 1 and make AOA. On the other hand, a DO in the top 10% of his or her class with a 240 Step I score can't feel as safe about his or her chances. It's not an equal playing field that some DO's would have you believe. Obviously, it depends on the field to which you are speaking of. DO's rarely face any discrimination in regards to matching in primary care fields and some specialties like anesthesiology and PM&R. But when you start looking at the most competitive surgical fields like Optho, Plastics, EN, Urology and Neurosurgery, it's an entirely different story. There are just too many amazying MD applicants to choose from so many but not all PD's feel they have no choice but to discriminate against the DO label. Again, these are for the most very competitive fields than most U.S. MD applicants fail to match.

M.D.'s cannot participate in osteopathic residencies. D.O.'s can participate in both osteopathic and allopathic residencies. If there is such a competitive specialty that doesn't appreciate the philosophy of osteopathic medicine (which is not likely at least in my part of the world, where D.O.'s are found in practically all residencies and at all hospitals), that specialty will be available as an osteopathic residency. Therefore, no specialty opportunity will be limitied.

 

[jhug]

i don't know if the op is still reading this but i'll throw it out anyway...
the AMA-MSS is in the process of studying the pros/cons of restructuring the match process. A major suggestion that was brought up is combining the MD/DO match (so we don't have to decide on a DO residency months in advance thus eliminating ourselves from the MD match) Also, they are contemplating eliminating all FMG's simply because this is the AMERICAN match (not international) Once sites are filled (scramble time) the sites would then be open for FMG's to fill any unfilled spots. Again, this is just in the works...but it may give some indication of how some people in the AMA feel about international schools.

 

[OSUdoc08]

i don't know if the op is still reading this but i'll throw it out anyway...
the AMA-MSS is in the process of studying the pros/cons of restructuring the match process. A major suggestion that was brought up is combining the MD/DO match (so we don't have to decide on a DO residency months in advance thus eliminating ourselves from the MD match) Also, they are contemplating eliminating all FMG's simply because this is the AMERICAN match (not international) Once sites are filled (scramble time) the sites would then be open for FMG's to fill any unfilled spots. Again, this is just in the works...but it may give some indication of how some people in the AMA feel about international schools.

That would sure be a relief, because I have a dilemma with AOA & ACGME residencies. Only AOA residencies are in my school state, Oklahoma, and only ACGME residencies are in my home state, Texas.

 

[bookite]

i don't know if the op is still reading this but i'll throw it out anyway...
the AMA-MSS is in the process of studying the pros/cons of restructuring the match process. A major suggestion that was brought up is combining the MD/DO match (so we don't have to decide on a DO residency months in advance thus eliminating ourselves from the MD match) Also, they are contemplating eliminating all FMG's simply because this is the AMERICAN match (not international) Once sites are filled (scramble time) the sites would then be open for FMG's to fill any unfilled spots. Again, this is just in the works...but it may give some indication of how some people in the AMA feel about international schools.

It?s easy to say this without any proof to back it up. If you think that the AMA-MSS will limit FMGs just because they are not ?AMERICAN? you are full of yourself. I think some people have problems competing on level ground and hope something (like this) will give them the advantage. Sucks to be beat out of a position by a foreigner. There are plenty of spots for all, so lets play nice.

 

[jhug]

Sucks to be beat out of a position by a foreigner. There are plenty of spots for all, so lets play nice.

bookite, that's just it...they are foreigners. I wouldn't expect to go to England, Spain or Canada and just jump into their medical education.
You're totally right, there are plenty of spots for all, and all will (hopefully) be filled. The order (possibly) will go to national residents first, others second. There is no advantage to this other than you go finish your PG education in the same country where you graduated/reside in. I think it is very nice to let any foreign students participate at all in the match process (much like i think it is very nice that the AMA allows DO's to match in allopathic residencies)

 

[daelroy]

If I were single, and young, I would certainly choose the Carib programs unless I really wanted to learn 2 years of manip training and attain the DO degree. Medical school is 90% self study anyway, and if you know you are smart enough to pass the USMLE, you will be fine. How can you argue with 2 years at the beach?!!!!

Because Grenada(St. George) and Dominica (Ross) aren't Oahu and Maui. Many people make the mistake of assuming that those islands are vacation getaways simply because they are located in the Carribean. Those islands are very uncomfortable and represent third world living conditions. And then there is the stigma with being an IMG or FMG. It's not as simple as attending school on beach.

 

[daelroy]

It?s easy to say this without any proof to back it up. If you think that the AMA-MSS will limit FMGs just because they are not ?AMERICAN? you are full of yourself. I think some people have problems competing on level ground and hope something (like this) will give them the advantage. Sucks to be beat out of a position by a foreigner. There are plenty of spots for all, so lets play nice.

I agree that it would never work. Many hospitals in this country rely upon IMG's to fill their spots. We need IMG's and appreciate their efforts. Like I said, the drawback to being an IMG is their selectivity both in regards to choice of field and location. But if you couldn't get into either an MD or DO school in the U.S., then the Carribbean is a great option and something I would have done in a heartbeat had I not gotten in anywhere in the U.S. I have a close IMG friend who is a successfull cardiology interventionalist so one can succeed coming out of those schools. But even my friend admitted that it's better to attend any school in the U.S. versus going the foreign route if he or she can help it.