D.O. Statistics

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FinchHead

FinchHead

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Is there any source where it lists, school by school, entering GPA, MCAT, and in-state admissions. Also, a breakdown a what percent of specialties each school graduates.

Thanks.
 
Jamers said:
Just so you know, you have at least one broken link in that post. Your MCAT scores leads to pre-health at Eckerd and nothing about MCAT scores.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jamers. I updated the links. It seems that AACOM changed their website, so I updated the urls to match the new ones. The Eckerd link is no longer working. I removed it. If I can find another link that has similar information, I'll update the list again.

Sorry for the inconvenience folks.
 
Thanks for the helpful links manna
 
Thanks for all the links guys. Using them, and scouring school websites, I composed all the information into an excel spreadsheet to help determine what schools to apply to. If you have any of the missing information, then PM it to me. The stuff in red is just schools I decided not to apply to at all.

I accidentally cut out the catagories, but they are:
School Name, average CGPA, average BCP GPA, average MCAT, Percent of graduates that go into FP, and percent of OOS acceptances (this is all the for ACCEPTED or ENTERING class)
i59396_NewBitmapImage.PNG
 
The numbers from that medschoolready.com site are based on averages given by people who have entered their profiles. No school has more than like 3 profiles to get this data from. That is not a very good source.
 
The only data I got from there were a few MCATs and the GAPCOM GPA. I think the GAPCOM gpa is obviously wrong, but the mcats seemed right at the expected average.
 
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Based on the average MCAT of all DO schools. Most of them are 24-27 MCAT. Only a couple are above or below that. If you have more accurate data for GAPCOM or anything else, please share
 
If I entered my profile onto the GA-PCOM section on that website, the average MCAT would jump to 27. I'm guessing that is somewhere around the average. I can't say for sure though. I can, however, assure you that the average MCAT there is not 21.

Also, the numbers you have for PCOM-philly are old. Like 4 years old. Supposedly, it is more like 3.6/29 these days, but I'm not totally sure.
 
Ok, I'll just toss out the GAPCOM info. Also, I misread the info off of the PCOM website:

Q. Who attends PCOM?
A. In 2004, the entering D.O. Class of 2007 consisted of 254 first-time students from 136 different colleges and 27 states. The average class GPA was 3.38, the science GPA was 3.45 and the mean MCAT score was 24.
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I thought it meant entering-year class of 2007. I sure as hell wish there was some central, reliable source of information like this. Just throwing my app out there blindly is irritating.
 
Unfortunately, I don't think any reliable, current numbers are easily available for a lot of these schools.
 
FinchHead said:
Thanks for all the links guys. Using them, and scouring school websites, I composed all the information into an excel spreadsheet to help determine what schools to apply to. If you have any of the missing information, then PM it to me. The stuff in red is just schools I decided not to apply to at all.

I accidentally cut out the catagories, but they are:
School Name, average CGPA, average BCP GPA, average MCAT, Percent of graduates that go into FP, and percent of OOS acceptances (this is all the for ACCEPTED or ENTERING class)
i59396_NewBitmapImage.PNG
Click to expand...

Are you sure those numbers are for FP and not Primary Care (which includes IM and Pediatrics).
 
I too think you can't full rely on these numbers. Admissions committee do some odd fudging with them.

Another metric which I find to be more reliable would be to compare research grant funding dollars awarded to each school. Most of this money comes from NIH. Here's a list:

DO research$.PNG


It's not completely fair since some of the new schools haven't had a fair chance to catch up with the big boys, but I think its meaningful nonetheless, a window into what's going on at these schools. There's a big difference between a place that's brings in 31 million dollars a year just for research and a campus that's bringing in 100,000.

You can read a detailed analysis of research funding at osteopathic schools in this JAOA article. (link)


bth
 
Well, if you're interested in doing research it would be a great metric. But I was more trying to judge what my chances were at different places. The amount of FP's graduated is the only "desirability" factor I put on there.
 
TexasTriathlete said:
What does percentage of FP graduates have to do with anything?
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I guess it says something about the "culture" of the student body. How primary/family practice oriented they tend to be?

Anecdotally, I have noticed this tend to vary a from school to school. But I never heard of a school not supporting a student in entering whatever field they chose.

bth
 
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DO schools are traditionally primary care factories, so you're going to see a lot of that. But I don't think that really says much about what each individual person ultimately matches into.
 
I don't have any interest in going into FP. Therefore, schools who graduate mostly FP's are less desirable for me. Of course there are exceptions, but by the grace of the fact that they are exceptions, that means that most people from those schools will go into FP.

If a school graduates a lot of FP's, it either means that a majority of the people applying want to go into FP, or that the school has less support/oppurtunity for their students going into other specialties. I think the latter is more realistic, so a lower amount of FP's graduated is one factor of how desirable a school is to me.
 
Are you sure that's how it works? I mean really sure?

Once you get into school, you will make your own way. What anyone else from that school did won't matter.
 
Of course I'm not "really" sure, I've never done it. But the pieces add up. If I go to a school where 90% of the graduates go into FP, then of course there is a possibility to get into something else, but it's obviously much smaller. Why cripple myself in that regard right off the bat?
 
FinchHead said:
I don't have any interest in going into FP. Therefore, schools who graduate mostly FP's are less desirable for me. Of course there are exceptions, but by the grace of the fact that they are exceptions, that means that most people from those schools will go into FP.

If a school graduates a lot of FP's, it either means that a majority of the people applying want to go into FP, or that the school has less support/oppurtunity for their students going into other specialties. I think the latter is more realistic, so a lower amount of FP's graduated is one factor of how desirable a school is to me.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I'd be cautious with that line of thinking. You might convince yourself out of a good school. I can't really disprove your hypothesis and I can't verify your data, but my thought is that the former is probably more true. It also varies per class. Anyway, what strikes me is that this may be a case where the numbers may lead you to an erroneous conclusion. Keep your mind open and examine additional factors; you may surprise yourself. Honestly, I didn't know I was going to like my school so much until I interviewed.
 
Well it's really not an issue. The only school I discounted because of it is WVSOM. The rest are discounted because of tiny OOS acceptance rates (except westernU, for which I'm in-state).

If some factor made me like a school with a FP rate of >70%, I would most definitly consider that school. But I am not going to apply to every school, and need some criteria to eliminate schools.
 
DO schools are traditionally primary care factories. Thus, they will get a lot of applicants who want to go into primary care. Additionally, DO schools tend to take a lot of older non-traditional applicants. A lot of these people don't want to spend a long time in residency, so they pick things like family practice. The result is, you get a lot of DO grads going into things like family practice, but for the most part, this is not something they end up with because they can't get anything else. They pick it on purpose.

And let's be honest... While it isn't as sexy as neurosurgery, there are a lot of pretty attractive things about family practice. It is easy to see why someone would want to go into it. Particularly a non-trad who has maybe worked a crappy 9-5 job for a while. Its a pretty easy gig, compared to other specialties. You can set up shop in a rural community, where it is cheap to live, and take care of families from when they are very young until the day they move away. The income is sufficient, I don't think insurance is particularly high, and you become an integral part of the community. There is a need for FP docs pretty much everywhere, so its not like you'll ever have a problem landing a good gig.

But if you don't want to do FP, then don't do it. Nobody is going to force you to. Just do well on your boards, get good marks on your rotations, and you'll put yourself in a position to match any number of residencies that might be appealing to you.
 
I can't find the source. I'll keep looking, however.

I may have got the terminology wrong, and it was actually primary care, not family practice.
 
TexasTriathlete said:
DO schools are traditionally primary care factories, so you're going to see a lot of that. But I don't think that really says much about what each individual person ultimately matches into.
Click to expand...

Actually, it may say a lot. How many elective rotations does the school give? When does it give them? Where can the students rotate at during that time?
 
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TexasTriathlete said:
DO schools are traditionally primary care factories. Thus, they will get a lot of applicants who want to go into primary care. Additionally, DO schools tend to take a lot of older non-traditional applicants. A lot of these people don't want to spend a long time in residency, so they pick things like family practice. The result is, you get a lot of DO grads going into things like family practice, but for the most part, this is not something they end up with because they can't get anything else. They pick it on purpose.

And let's be honest... While it isn't as sexy as neurosurgery, there are a lot of pretty attractive things about family practice. It is easy to see why someone would want to go into it. Particularly a non-trad who has maybe worked a crappy 9-5 job for a while. Its a pretty easy gig, compared to other specialties. You can set up shop in a rural community, where it is cheap to live, and take care of families from when they are very young until the day they move away. The income is sufficient, I don't think insurance is particularly high, and you become an integral part of the community. There is a need for FP docs pretty much everywhere, so its not like you'll ever have a problem landing a good gig.

But if you don't want to do FP, then don't do it. Nobody is going to force you to. Just do well on your boards, get good marks on your rotations, and you'll put yourself in a position to match any number of residencies that might be appealing to you.
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Are you for real?

Where do you come up with this crap?
 
Talking to DO's.

EDIT: and MD's too.

I have several clients and friends who are doctors. Not just people I talk to for 5 seconds when I'm volunteering. I mean people I train, go to happy hour with, and so-on. I know a couple FP docs who I talk to pretty regularly.
 
Maybe you should get some first hand experience before giving others advice. You may be mistaken for someone who knows what theyre talking about.

👍
 
Why isn't second-hand advice, passed along from people who do know what they're talking about, just as good? And where, exactly, am I wrong? I want to know, so I can tell my friends where they are wrong.
 
Texas, in my class the non-primary care folks FAR FAR FAR outnumber the primary care folks (FP and peds). And there are only about 5 who want to do family practice and less than a dozen who desire pediatrics (at least so far. We'll see what rotations bring).

As for DO schools "prepare you only for primary care", find me a school - ANY MEDICAL SCHOOL - that "prepares students for surgery" or "prepares students for anesthesiology". EVERY medical school in this entire country prepares students for every possible medical career - thus they prepare you for the most general of fields (i.e family practice/primary care). The job of residency is to hone the student for their chosen field.

I think perhaps the better way to form an opinion is to look at match lists and see where students match to. And bear in mind that many specialties such as cardiology, pulmonology, etc. require IM before you further specialize. So folks that ultimately end up in those fields will show as "IM" in match lists.
 
My point is that people aren't going to some school, scoring 240 on USMLE step 1, and then getting stuck in family practice when they don't want it because they went to a school that likes to put people in FP. If you want to get some kind of competitive specialty, you're going to have to earn it. But at the same time, there isn't a school that won't let you earn it.
 
The school doesn't "put people in FP". You do that all by yourself. Study hard. Get good board scores. Do well on rotations. And then if you don't WANT to end up in FP, you won't (assuming you're not limiting yourself to a residency based on what's available in one particular area of the country).
 
whoa..this thread is making FP sound worse than the Bog of Eternal Stench.

If FP isn't for you, then that doesn't mean that the people going into FP are getting "stuck" with it.
 
NjD00 said:
whoa..this thread is making FP sound worse than the Bog of Eternal Stench.

If FP isn't for you, then that doesn't mean that the people going into FP are getting "stuck" with it.
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Exactly. Some of the best interns and residents I know have been "stuck" in FP. Specialty is a choice, not a sentence.
 
Dr JPH said:
Maybe you should get some first hand experience before giving others advice. You may be mistaken for someone who knows what theyre talking about.

👍
Click to expand...

obviously, he has not had a chance to get some first hand experience, and he has no other choice but to go off others' advice. what is wrong with that?

perhaps you should loosen up your tone so your comments don't sound too arrogant...yea we all know you are in residency and you have the first hand experience......but you are way past this pre-med and med school jibber-jabbing...

so maybe its best to stay out of it unless you have something useful to say. Just a thought b/c I've read numerous threads where many users get defensive in regards to some of your remarks, including me. But, I guess it has been explained by others that your personality is just that way and to take your sarcastic quirks with a grain of salt
 
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Syncope82 said:
obviously, he has not had a chance to get some first hand experience, and he has no other choice but to go off others' advice. what is wrong with that?

perhaps you should loosen up your tone so your comments don't sound too arrogant...yea we all know you are in residency and you have the first hand experience......but you are way past this pre-med and med school jibber-jabbing...

so maybe its best to stay out of it unless you have something useful to say. Just a thought b/c I've read numerous threads where many users get defensive in regards to some of your remarks, including me. But, I guess it has been explained by others that your personality is just that way and to take your sarcastic quirks with a grain of salt
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It's funny how people come out of the woodwork realizing that JP Hazelton has been banned since yesterday and cannot respond in his own defense.

I think it's best you take your own advice, Syncopee82. You're no innocent here.
 
I hope he becomes un-banned soon, because he is a potentially valuable resource. I don't mind if he talks **** to me. Hell, I like talking **** too. But the problem is, when he actually does give real advice, it is often cryptic and not very helpful.

When one of us posts something, whether we heard it from someone who has experienced it themselves, or just pulled it out of our ass, he could easily promote a freaking great discussion about the topic by telling us his own experiences with the given subject. Instead, he will often just respond with a "**** you. You're wrong," which brings the discussion to a screeching halt.

But whatever. I'll take anything I can get, even if it is like trying to pick the corn out of **** to make cornbread.
 
Hes a bit abrasive, but so what? I say unban him. He is a great source of information on these forums...
 
FinchHead said:
Hes a bit abrasive, but so what? I say unban him. He is a great source of information on these forums...
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x4 We've become a society of whiny little sissies. Unban him.
 
Playmakur42 said:
x4 We've become a society of whiny little sissies. Unban him.
Click to expand...

how do you ban/unban someone? is he banned the pre osteo forum all together? or just from this thread?
 
I really could care less if JPH is on these forums or not. I like to experience all types of personalities and everyone has their own quirks, myself included. I try to learn to like everyone for who they are and realize a lot of who someone is has to do with their past experiences and to try to value them for that. Before he was banned the last time, he made it very clear that he thought very little of older students, non-trads, and URMS so I just don't feel I can relate much to his life experiences.

But really, I think most of us have doctors who are friends, relatives, parents, etc who have decades upon decades of experience who would treat us with mutual respect and in apropriate ways if we asked them questions who could be much more valuable resources and wouldn't talk down to us as 'mere pre-meds'. I know I could contact the DO I shadowed last summer anytime for advice or assistance and she would be more than willing to help even though I worked with her for only 2 days.

I train lots of students at my job and have never felt the urge to talk down to them or belittle them and have never even gotten mad when they made grave mistakes. My respect and courtesy towards them makes them have respect back. Last summer, the new students even came in wanting to work with me bc of what the previous year's students told them. That's how you earn respect and that's when people listen to you, not by treating people like dog ****. I come on to these forums to have conversations with people who are going through the same things as me right now bc I know no one in my home town who is. I don't come on here to be berated and harassed in inapropriate ways. I have fondness for JPH for certain things about him and find his personality intruiging, but any good intentions are lost by the way he treats others.
 
t-funk said:
I really could care less if JPH is on these forums or not. I like to experience all types of personalities and everyone has their own quirks, myself included. I try to learn to like everyone for who they are and realize a lot of who someone is has to do with their past experiences and to try to value them for that. Before he was banned the last time, he made it very clear that he thought very little of older students, non-trads, and URMS so I just don't feel I can relate much to his life experiences.

But really, I think most of us have doctors who are friends, relatives, parents, etc who have decades upon decades of experience who would treat us with mutual respect and in apropriate ways if we asked them questions who could be much more valuable resources and wouldn't talk down to us as 'mere pre-meds'. I know I could contact the DO I shadowed last summer anytime for advice or assistance and she would be more than willing to help even though I worked with her for only 2 days.

I train lots of students at my job and have never felt the urge to talk down to them or belittle them and have never even gotten mad when they made grave mistakes. My respect and courtesy towards them makes them have respect back. Last summer, the new students even came in wanting to work with me bc of what the previous year's students told them. That's how you earn respect and that's when people listen to you, not by treating people like dog ****. I come on to these forums to have conversations with people who are going through the same things as me right now bc I know no one in my home town who is. I don't come on here to be berated and harassed in inapropriate ways. I have fondness for JPH for certain things about him and find his personality intruiging, but any good intentions are lost by the way he treats others.
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agreed...the good that he is doing is being overshadowed by his bad

second..not all physicians act this way....you are right...most will treat you with mutual respect, whether you are a student or an attending...some will always be the exception to this
 
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