Daily Show on Comedy Central tonight (2/9/06)

[Moxxie]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hey all -

Just flipping through the channels and it looks like the Daily Show is going to be poking fun at our chosen profession tonight - they're doing one of their famous interviews with a christian pharmacist reserving the right to refuse to fill Plan B. I'm interested in how this will turn out.

 

[DHG]

I saw it and thought it was hilarious.

 

[DownonthePharm]

Jon Stewart gets a free pass from me. 😍

 

[TheChemist]

I love the daily show. I'll have to catch the re-airing tonight. Who interviewed the pharmacist?

 

[BiOGoly]

No need to wait for the repeat:http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml

 

[praying4MD]

Jon Stewart is my soulmate! 😍

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Colbert is better.

About the subject, it was clear to see how America views us based on the crowd reaction. Annoying little buggers that should do nothing but read, type, fill, bag. 🙁

 

[DHG]

Colbert is better.

About the subject, it was clear to see how America views us based on the crowd reaction. Annoying little buggers that should do nothing but read, type, fill, bag. 🙁

🙁 yeah I noticed that too.

 

[cognito]

Hillarious, but the governor appears to be an ahole

 

[BiOGoly]

Colbert is better.

About the subject, it was clear to see how America views us based on the crowd reaction. Annoying little buggers that should do nothing but read, type, fill, bag. 🙁

I think that has less to do with the "fast food" perception of pharmacy and more with a knee-jerk reaction to a perceived abuse of authority. Nobody likes a power tripper, and I would have to say that 99% of these pharmacist's who are ostensibly refusing to dispense for "personal or religious reasons" are really just on a power trip. It's rather embarrasing and they are doing few favors for the public view of the profession IMO.

 

[crossurfingers]

I don't understand why they have to tell patients it's because of their religious beliefs. Why can't they just say they ran out, refer them to another pharmacy and apologize for the inconvenience?

 

[Future Neuro]

I think that has less to do with the "fast food" perception of pharmacy and more with a knee-jerk reaction to a perceived abuse of authority. Nobody likes a power tripper, and I would have to say that 99% of these pharmacist's who are ostensibly refusing to dispense for "personal or religious reasons" are really just on a power trip. It's rather embarrasing and they are doing few favors for the public view of the profession IMO.

Could it be that customers who want to dictate to pharmacists what drugs they dispense are on the power trip? It's all a matter of perspective. You and others in this thread seem to view the pharmacist as nothing more than the slave of the customer. I am positive that none of you would think of telling a physician what diagnosis to make or what medication to prescribe, but you think people should be able to force a pharmacist to dispense a certain medication. Why can't a customer just respect the pharmacist's beliefs and go to another pharmacy? Isn't America suppose to be about tolerance of your fellow man's beliefs? Do you support forcing an OB-GYN physician to perform abortions if he or she is pro-life? Just my two cents.

 

[ultracet]

Could it be that customers who want to dictate to pharmacists what drugs they dispense are on the power trip? It's all a matter of perspective. You and others in this thread seem to view the pharmacist as nothing more than the slave of the customer. I am positive that none of you would think of telling a physician what diagnosis to make or what medication to prescribe, but you think people should be able to force a pharmacist to dispense a certain medication. Why can't a customer just respect the pharmacist's beliefs and go to another pharmacy? Isn't America suppose to be about tolerance of your fellow man's beliefs? Do you support forcing an OB-GYN physician to perform abortions if he or she is pro-life? Just my two cents.

thats a great point in all...
however
you're wrong when you think patients dont' tell the MD what to write for...

and you're also wrong if you think when the patient doesnt get what they want they leave it at that and don't go find another MD who will give them what they want.


why do you think direct to consumer advertising is so popular right now?

there seems to be a big thing now about empowering the public and helping them to make informed decisions when in all reality they do not have the knowledge or understanding to do so


and yeah...
i do kinda tell my MD what to write for

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I don't understand why they have to tell patients it's because of their religious beliefs. Why can't they just say they ran out, refer them to another pharmacy and apologize for the inconvenience?

If you are a christian, lying is actually consider a grave sin. Theres no point in lying someone. . . just tell them the truth. Furthremore. . . as stupid as it sounds, if they found out that you did have it, you may may be in for malpractice.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Could it be that customers who want to dictate to pharmacists what drugs they dispense are on the power trip? It's all a matter of perspective. You and others in this thread seem to view the pharmacist as nothing more than the slave of the customer. I am positive that none of you would think of telling a physician what diagnosis to make or what medication to prescribe, but you think people should be able to force a pharmacist to dispense a certain medication. Why can't a customer just respect the pharmacist's beliefs and go to another pharmacy? Isn't America suppose to be about tolerance of your fellow man's beliefs? Do you support forcing an OB-GYN physician to perform abortions if he or she is pro-life? Just my two cents.

amen

 

[DownonthePharm]

thats a great point in all...
and yeah...
i do kinda tell my MD what to write for

Yeah, the last doctor I went to I said, this is what I was on, this is what I want to switch to and why I want it. He looked at my chart and just shrugged, wrote me a script and asked, "Are you sure your not a doctor?". He admitted that I knew more about the medication than he did. I think its important for consumers to be educated about their healthcare, but the sad fact is too many docs only know certain drugs and do whatever the patient says so they dont switch doctors.

 

[BiOGoly]

Could it be that customers who want to dictate to pharmacists what drugs they dispense are on the power trip? It's all a matter of perspective. You and others in this thread seem to view the pharmacist as nothing more than the slave of the customer. I am positive that none of you would think of telling a physician what diagnosis to make or what medication to prescribe, but you think people should be able to force a pharmacist to dispense a certain medication. Why can't a customer just respect the pharmacist's beliefs and go to another pharmacy? Isn't America suppose to be about tolerance of your fellow man's beliefs? Do you support forcing an OB-GYN physician to perform abortions if he or she is pro-life? Just my two cents.

Hmmm...

Could it be that customers who want to dictate to pharmacists what drugs they dispense are on the power trip?

A patient who walks into a pharmacy with a valid prescription from their physician has a natural expectation that the prescription will be filled. This is what pharmacy's do, they fill prescriptions. If a customer came up to the counter without a prescription and demanded a 100 count of Vicodin, that would be a powertrip. Expecting someone to do their job is not a powertrip.

I am positive that none of you would think of telling a physician what diagnosis to make or what medication to prescribe, but you think people should be able to force a pharmacist to dispense a certain medication.

A pharmacist's job is not diagnosis, it is (in a nutshell) to dispense medication and in case of error, not to dispense medication (in this case you had better be right!). Equating a physician's prescription priviledges with a pharmacist's dispensing privileges is a non sequitur.

Why can't a customer just respect the pharmacist's beliefs and go to another pharmacy

Let's say we're not talking about something like Plan.B, but an SSRI. You walk into the pharmacy with a prescription for Prozac to treat your clinical depression, but since I'm a practicing Scientologist and think that depression is malarky, I inform you that I WILL NOT fill your prescription. How are you going to feel? Confused, rejected, annoyed? I'll tell you how I'd feel, I'd feel mighty PO'd and I'd probably have it in for pharmacists till the end of my days. I can only imagine what it must feel like to be a women with a script for something like PlanB and have some "Holier than thou" pencil neck behind the counter give me a condecending smirk as he shakes his head and informs me to look elsewhere.

Isn't America suppose to be about tolerance of your fellow man's beliefs?

Exactly? 🙄

Do you support forcing an OB-GYN physician to perform abortions if he or she is pro-life?

See Straw Man Fallacy

Just my two cents.

Keep the change.
-BiOGoly

 

[DHG]

...
-BiOGoly

Thanks BiOGoly 👍 Nice.

 

[Future Neuro]

Hmmm...

A patient who walks into a pharmacy with a valid prescription from their physician has a natural expectation that the prescription will be filled. This is what pharmacy's do, they fill prescriptions. If a customer came up to the counter without a prescription and demanded a 100 count of Vicodin, that would be a powertrip. Expecting someone to do their job is not a powertrip.

A pharmacist's job is not diagnosis, it is (in a nutshell) to dispense medication and in case of error, not to dispense medication (in this case you had better be right!). Equating a physician's prescription priviledges with a pharmacist's dispensing privileges is a non sequitur.

Let's say we're not talking about something like Plan.B, but an SSRI. You walk into the pharmacy with a prescription for Prozac to treat your clinical depression, but since I'm a practicing Scientologist and think that depression is malarky, I inform you that I WILL NOT fill your prescription. How are you going to feel? Confused, rejected, annoyed? I'll tell you how I'd feel, I'd feel mighty PO'd and I'd probably have it in for pharmacists till the end of my days. I can only imagine what it must feel like to be a women with a script for something like PlanB and have some "Holier than thou" pencil neck behind the counter give me a condecending smirk as he shakes his head and informs me to look elsewhere.

Exactly? 🙄

See Straw Man Fallacy

Keep the change.
-BiOGoly

There is a pharmacy on almost every block. You are on a power trip if you think a pharmacist HAS to fill your prescription. A pharmacist can't prevent you from getting the medication from another pharmacy, so there is no need for you and others via goverment to force a pharmacist to dispense a medication if he or she has a moral problem in doing so. I personally think this issue is much ado about nothing, as most of the big chains require their pharmacists to fill Plan B. Just avoid the independent pharmacies and you should be okay. If you want to get all worked up over the issue, that's cool too. 🙂

 

[Future Neuro]

thats a great point in all...
however
you're wrong when you think patients dont' tell the MD what to write for...

and you're also wrong if you think when the patient doesnt get what they want they leave it at that and don't go find another MD who will give them what they want.


why do you think direct to consumer advertising is so popular right now?

there seems to be a big thing now about empowering the public and helping them to make informed decisions when in all reality they do not have the knowledge or understanding to do so


and yeah...
i do kinda tell my MD what to write for

I see nothing wrong with a patient inquiring about a certain drug. Your last statement seems to indicate that you think the general public is just plain stupid. That's a bit cynical isn't it? The drug commercials just tell you that there is a drug that has been approved to treat a given disease or condition.
I think the reason that the drug companies do commercials is the older physicians do not keep up with the new medications on the market, which isn't very professional on their part.
The physician still makes the decision to write the prescription....you aren't forcing him to do so. I would think with your pharmacy school education, that you would have a good idea of what medication is appropriate for a given diagnosis, so your suggestion to the physician would probably be the right one. However, if your physician just does whatever you tell him to do even if it's not the right decision, he isn't a very good physician, and you probably should not see him anymore.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

*Bias Hat*

This is an interesting debate because I think both sides are idiots.

On one side you have pharmacists that don't dispense EC, but, generally, have no problem doling out regular 'ol birth control. Ya putzes. Read your pharmacology texts. And it all then boils down to the using their religious beliefs rather than the "best evidence available" to practice science. This is just embarassing to the profession.

On the other side, you have people that think pharmacists are undeserving of autonomy and that personal freedom to demand EC supercedes the personal freedom to acts autonomously. I suppose if you work for a chain, you may be forced to dispense, but that's only because you work for somebody. If you own your own store, it's nobody's business what you do sell and what you don't.

If I could just instantly get rid of every pharmacist that refuses to fill and every idiot that would take the time to whine to the media because some pharmacy doesn't dispense the med, the world would be a better place.

*Take off bias hat*

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Let's say we're not talking about something like Plan.B, but an SSRI. You walk into the pharmacy with a prescription for Prozac to treat your clinical depression, but since I'm a practicing Scientologist and think that depression is malarky, I inform you that I WILL NOT fill your prescription. How are you going to feel? Confused, rejected, annoyed?

For a person whining about straw men, you're certainly good at building a nice, big scientologist one.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

There is a pharmacy on almost every block.

True in cities, perhaps, but there are rural areas where there is only one pharmacy for miles. I would know, I lived in one.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Regarding the OBGYN/abortion issue: no one would force an OBGYN working in his own office to perform an abortion if he or she didn't want to. HOWEVER, if an OBGYN takes a position where performing abortions is one part of the job description, then he or she will have to do that. If you don't want to perform abortions, don't work for Planned Parenthood, Women's Surgical Associates, etc.

Likewise, if as a pharmacist you don't want to dispense Plan B (or any other drug), don't work for a store that sells it. I think that if you take a job at a pharmacy that sells Plan B or OC, you know what you are getting into.


No one (that I know of) wants to take away pharmacists' right to refuse for legitimate reasons. However, defining those reasons is tricky. For me, a legitimate reason to refuse would be something along these lines:

1. The Rx is for a drug that has a major interaction with something else the patient is on.
2. I suspect the Rx is forged.
3. Significant abuse potential is suspected (You just got your xanax 10 days ago and now you are presenting a script for the same med from a different MD- no dice).

These are issues of professional judgement and I seriously doubt anyone in the public would want to take away the pharmacists ability to make these types of calls. But when a pharmacist says, "I won't give you Plan B because I believe life begins at fertilization and I think abortion is wrong," that's not a professional judgement call - it's an example of someone in authority imposing their PERSONAL religious/moral beliefs on someone else.

I think that's what people are uncomfortable with.

I don't think anyone wants a law that requires pharmacist to "dispense as written, no questions asked." But women who have a legitimate need (as determined by the women and her doctor), a legal prescription (written by an eligible prescriber) and no medical contraindications for Plan B are entitled, in my opinion, to expect that they will be able to fill that prescription at any pharmacy that sells it, provided that it is in stock at the time.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Let's say we're not talking about something like Plan.B, but an SSRI. You walk into the pharmacy with a prescription for Prozac to treat your clinical depression, but since I'm a practicing Scientologist and think that depression is malarky, I inform you that I WILL NOT fill your prescription.

Even though this example is theoretical, I see it as the same type of thing. People are so repulsed by Tom Cruise and his thoughts on post-partum depression, can you imagine how they'd feel if Scientologist pharmacists started refusing to dispense pysch meds?

Or if a Christian Scientist pharmacist refused to dispense any medicine at all and instead wanted to spend time telling patients how they could overcome their illnesses using the methods of the Church of Christ, Scientist?

It would be like a someone who is a Jehovah Witness going to work in a blood bank or on a transfusion unit.

Yes, I know that these are extreme examples (so don't ya'll get yourselves(not responding to BiOgoly specificially here) all worked up trying to debunk them - I already suspect what you might say). I posted them because they DO illustrate my point nicely: pharmacists' personal religous beliefs do not belong in the pharmacy.

 

[Future Neuro]

*Bias Hat*

This is an interesting debate because I think both sides are idiots.

On one side you have pharmacists that don't dispense EC, but, generally, have no problem doling out regular 'ol birth control. Ya putzes. Read your pharmacology texts. And it all then boils down to the using their religious beliefs rather than the "best evidence available" to practice science. This is just embarassing to the profession.

On the other side, you have people that think pharmacists are undeserving of autonomy and that personal freedom to demand EC supercedes the personal freedom to acts autonomously. I suppose if you work for a chain, you may be forced to dispense, but that's only because you work for somebody. If you own your own store, it's nobody's business what you do sell and what you don't.

If I could just instantly get rid of every pharmacist that refuses to fill and every idiot that would take the time to whine to the media because some pharmacy doesn't dispense the med, the world would be a better place.

*Take off bias hat*

Are you the one person in the entire world that has no bias?

 

[Future Neuro]

True in cities, perhaps, but there are rural areas where there is only one pharmacy for miles. I would know, I lived in one.

I bet the soldiers over in Iraq wish they had problems like this.

 

[Future Neuro]

Regarding the OBGYN/abortion issue: no one would force an OBGYN working in his own office to perform an abortion if he or she didn't want to. HOWEVER, if an OBGYN takes a position where performing abortions is one part of the job description, then he or she will have to do that. If you don't want to perform abortions, don't work for Planned Parenthood, Women's Surgical Associates, etc.

Likewise, if as a pharmacist you don't want to dispense Plan B (or any other drug), don't work for a store that sells it. I think that if you take a job at a pharmacy that sells Plan B or OC, you know what you are getting into.


No one (that I know of) wants to take away pharmacists' right to refuse for legitimate reasons. However, defining those reasons is tricky. For me, a legitimate reason to refuse would be something along these lines:

1. The Rx is for a drug that has a major interaction with something else the patient is on.
2. I suspect the Rx is forged.
3. Significant abuse potential is suspected (You just got your xanax 10 days ago and now you are presenting a script for the same med from a different MD- no dice).

These are issues of professional judgement and I seriously doubt anyone in the public would want to take away the pharmacists ability to make these types of calls. But when a pharmacist says, "I won't give you Plan B because I believe life begins at fertilization and I think abortion is wrong," that's not a professional judgement call - it's an example of someone in authority imposing their PERSONAL religious/moral beliefs on someone else.

I think that's what people are uncomfortable with.

I don't think anyone wants a law that requires pharmacist to "dispense as written, no questions asked." But women who have a legitimate need (as determined by the women and her doctor), a legal prescription (written by an eligible prescriber) and no medical contraindications for Plan B are entitled, in my opinion, to expect that they will be able to fill that prescription at any pharmacy that sells it, provided that it is in stock at the time.

The fallacy of your position is that a pharmacist can't impose their personal religious or moral beliefs on you. You can go elsewhere to get your prescription filled. It's you and people like you who want to force your personal belief that life does not begin at fertilization on the pharmacist by forcing him or her to fill the prescription. I believe all of the retail chains require their pharmacists to fill plan B, and I think a few pharmacists were actually fired by CVS for not doing so, which is fine because that was the corporate policy. Therefore, if you are still complaining about this issue, it means you want to force independent pharmacists to dispense plan B against their will. The independent pharmacist should have the same rights as the OBGYN who doesn't work for Planned Abortion...oops...Parenthood.

 

[Sosumi]

The fallacy of your position is that a pharmacist can't impose their personal religious or moral beliefs on you. You can go elsewhere to get your prescription filled. It's you and people like you who want to force your personal belief that life does not begin at fertilization on the pharmacist by forcing him or her to fill the prescription. I believe all of the retail chains require their pharmacists to fill plan B, and I think a few pharmacists were actually fired by CVS for not doing so, which is fine because that was the corporate policy. Therefore, if you are still complaining about this issue, it means you want to force independent pharmacists to dispense plan B against their will. The independent pharmacist should have the same rights as the OBGYN who doesn't work for Planned Abortion...oops...Parenthood.

Your statements are so ridiculous and drawing inferences for which others are not saying. No one's imposing their beliefs that on you that life doesn't begin at fertilization. Don't give me that reverse victimization nonsense. It's the pharmacists who work for chains who expressly refuse to dispense Plan B even though they signed a contract saying they would obey that chain's policies. Their job is to dispense the medication to the patient and counsel them without passing judgment. This is at least being a professional. If they don't want to do their job, then quit and find an employer who will abide by their beliefs or open up your own pharmacy.

The women complaining are doing so because these pharmacists are not doing their job and like any customer service complaint, files a complaint to their employer or this being America, files a lawsuit.

 

[Future Neuro]

Your statements are so ridiculous and drawing inferences for which others are not saying. No one's imposing their beliefs that on you that life doesn't begin at fertilization. Don't give me that reverse victimization nonsense. It's the pharmacists who work for chains who expressly refuse to dispense Plan B even though they signed a contract saying they would obey that chain's policies. Their job is to dispense the medication to the patient and counsel them without passing judgment. This is at least being a professional. If they don't want to do their job, then quit and find an employer who will abide by their beliefs or open up your own pharmacy.

The women complaining are doing so because these pharmacists are not doing their job and like any customer service complaint, files a complaint to their employer or this being America, files a lawsuit.

I'm okay with pharmacists being fired if they work for a retail chain that has a corporate policy that they must fill Plan B. I do think that's unfortunate though...it's kind of like how Democrats want to prohibit any pro-lifers from being on the Supreme Court.
If you want to force a pharmacist at an independent pharmacy to fill Plan B, you are trying to impose your belief that life does not begin at fertilization on the pharmacist.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I'm okay with pharmacists being fired if they work for a retail chain that has a corporate policy that they must fill Plan B. I do think that's unfortunate though...it's kind of like how Democrats want to prohibit any pro-lifers from being on the Supreme Court.
If you want to force a pharmacist at an independent pharmacy to fill Plan B, you are trying to impose your belief that life does not begin at fertilization on the pharmacist.

Even in a retail pharmacy, a pharmacist is an independent health CONTRACTOR. Sure the chain can fire the pharmacist but theres some legal grounds there for a lawsuit.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I bet the soldiers over in Iraq wish they had problems like this.

Ah, the famous diversionary tactic.
Always a good standby when you've got nothing else to say.

I was just refuting your INCORRECT, MISINFORMED assertion that everyone in America has access to multiple pharmacies. You are wrong, they don't.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

The fallacy of your position is that a pharmacist can't impose their personal religious or moral beliefs on you. You can go elsewhere to get your prescription filled. It's you and people like you who want to force your personal belief that life does not begin at fertilization on the pharmacist by forcing him or her to fill the prescription. I believe all of the retail chains require their pharmacists to fill plan B, and I think a few pharmacists were actually fired by CVS for not doing so, which is fine because that was the corporate policy. Therefore, if you are still complaining about this issue, it means you want to force independent pharmacists to dispense plan B against their will. The independent pharmacist should have the same rights as the OBGYN who doesn't work for Planned Abortion...oops...Parenthood.

Here's my bottom line opinion on this subject (from my previous post), since you didn't seem to understand it:

<<<Women who have a legitimate need (as determined by the women and her doctor), a legal prescription (written by an eligible prescriber) and no medical contraindications for Plan B are entitled, in my opinion, to expect that they will be able to fill that prescription at any pharmacy that sells it, provided that it is in stock at the time.>>>


Every pharmacist who takes a job with a company that DOES sell Plan B should be ready and willing to dispense it provided the above conditions are met.

If an independent pharmacist/pharmacy owner wants to decline to carry Plan B, that is his decision. I don't agree, but he has a right to run his business as he chooses. Likewise, I have the right not to patronize his business.

Show me the post where I said that I wanted to force independent pharmacists to dispense Plan B against their will. I know I'm getting up there in the years, but I think I would remember it!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Even in a retail pharmacy, a pharmacist is an independent health CONTRACTOR. Sure the chain can fire the pharmacist but theres some legal grounds there for a lawsuit.

Can't speak for all retail pharmacies, but the pharmacists in my company (Kroger) are NOT independent contractors. They are employees.

An employer can set whatever policies he or she desires for his employees (provided the policies are in compliance with all applicable state, federal and local laws). So a chain pharmacy can certainly make dispensing Plan B a condition of employment and would be within their rights to terminate a pharmacist who refuses.

There are many differences between employees and independent contractors. I won't get into it here, but if someone is really interested they can PM me or do a google search.

 

[ultracet]

ok a few points here....

1. not all chains require you to dispense plan b (i.e. walmart)
2. there is a thing called "contract negotiations" where the rph can request certain things be written into the contract
3. there are these things called "conscious clauses" that are frequently written into rph contracts that state that they do not have to fill a rx if they morally object...

its an individual thing not a chain thing and not an independent thing

also it is up to the pharmacy manager if they stock it at their cvs, walgreens, or grocery store pharmacy.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Are you the one person in the entire world that has no bias?

Yes. I also invented the Russian language and was awarded 5 Congressional Medals of Honor.

 

[Future Neuro]

Ah, the famous diversionary tactic.
Always a good standby when you've got nothing else to say.

I was just refuting your INCORRECT, MISINFORMED assertion that everyone in America has access to multiple pharmacies. You are wrong, they don't.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

I don't understand your need to get hostile. If you live out in the sticks, you can't expect to have all the amenities of town. I would assume that most people in rural areas have to travel to a town every now and then for groceries and um....medications. 🙂

 

[ultracet]

I don't understand your need to get hostile. If you live out in the sticks, you can't expect to have all the amenities of town. I would assume that most people in rural areas have to travel to a town every now and then for groceries and um....medications. 🙂

or perhaps the town only has 1 pharmacy

ever think of that?

 

[Future Neuro]

or perhaps the town only has 1 pharmacy

ever think of that?

First of all, how many of those towns with one pharmacy don't fill plan B? Do you have those stats on hand? Secondly, if these pharmacies in rural areas don't fill plan B, what do you propose be done about it? Force the pharmacist to fill it? You friend says she doesn't support that, but then she brings up that there is only one pharmacy in rural areas.

 

[ultracet]

First of all, how many of those towns with one pharmacy don't fill plan B? Do you have those stats on hand? Secondly, if these pharmacies in rural areas don't fill plan B, what do you propose be done about it? Force the pharmacist to fill it? You friend says she doesn't support that, but then she brings up that there is only one pharmacy in rural areas.

seeing as how i live in alabama...
probably all of them

but no i don't have the stats on hand

and no i don't think that a pharmacist should be forced to fill anything

 

[dgroulx]

seeing as how i live in alabama...
probably all of them

but no i don't have the stats on hand

and no i don't think that a pharmacist should be forced to fill anything

In rural Florida, there is maybe one pharmacy in town. Also, in rural Florida, the majority would not fill plan B, based on their religious views. It's pretty close to Alabama. I'm sure the other rural southern states are the same.

 

[Future Neuro]

Here's my bottom line opinion on this subject (from my previous post), since you didn't seem to understand it:

<<<Women who have a legitimate need (as determined by the women and her doctor), a legal prescription (written by an eligible prescriber) and no medical contraindications for Plan B are entitled, in my opinion, to expect that they will be able to fill that prescription at any pharmacy that sells it, provided that it is in stock at the time.>>>


Every pharmacist who takes a job with a company that DOES sell Plan B should be ready and willing to dispense it provided the above conditions are met.

If an independent pharmacist/pharmacy owner wants to decline to carry Plan B, that is his decision. I don't agree, but he has a right to run his business as he chooses. Likewise, I have the right not to patronize his business.

Show me the post where I said that I wanted to force independent pharmacists to dispense Plan B against their will. I know I'm getting up there in the years, but I think I would remember it!

First of all, you brought up that there is only one pharmacy in rural areas. The fact that you brought that up seems to indicate that at the very least you would support forcing pharmacists working in rural areas to fill plan B against their will. I think that I made a logical assumption there about your stance on the issue, but I sincerely apologize if I did not.

In a previous post, you said:

"These are issues of professional judgement and I seriously doubt anyone in the public would want to take away the pharmacists ability to make these types of calls. But when a pharmacist says, "I won't give you Plan B because I believe life begins at fertilization and I think abortion is wrong," that's not a professional judgement call - it's an example of someone in authority imposing their PERSONAL religious/moral beliefs on someone else. I think that's what people are uncomfortable with."

All I wanted to point out is that if you and others DO think a pharmacist should HAVE to fill a prescription for Plan B, it is you that are forcing your view that "life does not begin at fertilization" on the pharmacist. I am uncomfortable with people who want to tell a person in the private sector what they have to sell to another person. Let me make an analogy for you. Let's say you really like watching porn movies, and you go to your local video store in rural Kentucky. However, the owner of this video store opposes porn movies based on moral reasons, and does not sell them to the public. Now, you would have to say this video store owner is forcing his moral beliefs on you by not selling you a porn movie to be consistent with your claim that a pharmacist is forcing his views on you if he does not wish to sell you Plan B for moral reasons.

 

[Future Neuro]

In rural Florida, there is maybe one pharmacy in town. Also, in rural Florida, the majority would not fill plan B, based on their religious views. It's pretty close to Alabama. I'm sure the other rural southern states are the same.

So what's your solution? Force the pharmacists to dispense Plan B?

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Can't speak for all retail pharmacies, but the pharmacists in my company (Kroger) are NOT independent contractors. They are employees.

An employer can set whatever policies he or she desires for his employees (provided the policies are in compliance with all applicable state, federal and local laws). So a chain pharmacy can certainly make dispensing Plan B a condition of employment and would be within their rights to terminate a pharmacist who refuses.

There are many differences between employees and independent contractors. I won't get into it here, but if someone is really interested they can PM me or do a google search.

Uhm, yes I think I can speak for all chains. A pharmacist is an independent contractor; they CANNOT be forced to fill whatever the chain force upon them. You are highly mistaken if you think the pharmacist is the same as a store clerk. A pharmacist has a license while a store clerk does not. The LICENSE is what makes the pharmacist an independent contractor regardless if they are employed or not under krogers. If the pharmacist does something illegal, it is the pharmacist's license to practice that will be in jeopardy. If what you said is the case, the chain can force the pharmacist to fill all prescriptions, even if the pharmacist thinks that it is illegal, ie a dentist writing an RX for birth control.

About termination, yes the chain can terminate a pharmacist if it is in the pharmacist's contract to fill birth control pills. However the LEGAL precedent for that really hasnt been tested. That depends on your state law and some state laws are just dying to be tested since they are so obsolete. Furthermore, I havent seen a chain forced their pharmacist to fill a prescription. I work for both Rite Aid and CVS and their rule of thumb is yes, you are required to fill it but if you cant, you have to refer the patient to another pharmacy that can.

About rural areas if that is the case, they have to adapt. What if that pharmacy is an independent pharmacy and the only one around 100 miles? Thats not the pharmacist's fault. A patient has approximately 24 hours to get the pill and thats the patient's responsibility. If the patient is traumatized, have someone else do it for her. This has nothing to do with forcing my moral obligation on the patient, I am not actively involved in anything. I took my pharmacist oath and the first line is to do no harm. If the church says that once the egg and the sperm meets, its a living being. I am not going to kill a living being.

Anyway, regardless. . . the ethnical part is another issue. However you cannot force a pharmacist to do something he doesnt want to.

 

[Future Neuro]

Uhm, yes I think I can speak for all chains. A pharmacist is an independent contractor; they CANNOT be forced to fill whatever the chain force upon them. You are highly mistaken if you think that a pharmacist is the same as a store clerk. A pharmacist has a license while a store clerk does not. The LICENSE is what makes the pharmacist an independent contractor regardless if they are employed or not under krogers. If the pharmacist does something illegal, it is the pharmacist's license to practice that will be in jeopardy. If what you said is the case, the chain can force the pharmacist to fill all prescriptions, even if the pharmacist thinks that it is illegal, ie a dentist writing an RX for birth control.

About termination, yes the chain can terminate a pharmacist if it is in the pharmacist's contract to fill birth control pills. However the LEGAL precedent for that really hasnt been tested. That depends on your state law and some state laws are just dying to be tested since they are so obsolete. Furthermore, I havent seen a chain forced their pharmacist to fill a prescription. I work for both Rite Aid and CVS and their rule of thumb is yes, you are required to fill it but if you cant, you have to refer the patient to another pharmacy that they can.

About rural areas. . . , if that is the case, they have to adapt. What if that pharmacy is an independent pharmacy and the only one around 100 miles? Thats not a pharmacist's fault. A patient has approximately 24 hours to get the pill and thats the patient's responsibility. If the patient is traumatized, have someone else do it for her. This has nothing to do with forcing my moral obligation on the patient, I am not actively involved in anything. I took my pharmacist oath and the first line is to do no harm. If the church says that once the egg and the sperm meets, its a living being. I am not going to kill a living being.

Anyway, regardless. . . the ethnical part is another issue. However you cannot force a pharmacist to do something he doesnt want to.

That was well said.

 

[imperial frog]

Yes. I also invented the Russian language and was awarded 5 Congressional Medals of Honor.

Only 5? Slacker.

 

[imperial frog]

Even in a retail pharmacy, a pharmacist is an independent health CONTRACTOR. Sure the chain can fire the pharmacist but theres some legal grounds there for a lawsuit.

The IRS considers them employees and not independent contractors...they meet at least 17 of the 20 factors that is used to determine employee status. That's usually enough for the courts.

 

[imperial frog]

Uhm, yes I think I can speak for all chains. A pharmacist is an independent contractor; they CANNOT be forced to fill whatever the chain force upon them. You are highly mistaken if you think the pharmacist is the same as a store clerk. A pharmacist has a license while a store clerk does not. The LICENSE is what makes the pharmacist an independent contractor regardless if they are employed or not under krogers.

Simply having a license does not make someone an independent contractor. If that were the case, nurses, paramedics, police officers, hell, even hairdressers couldn't be considered employees.

 

[Janusdog]

Could it be that customers who want to dictate to pharmacists what drugs they dispense are on the power trip? ...Why can't a customer just respect the pharmacist's beliefs and go to another pharmacy?

Because other pharmacies may not be an option. Because forcing a raped woman or a woman in distress to go somewhere else places an undue burden on her and places a barrier to competent medical care in her way. Because codes of ethics are supposed to place the patient first. Because the moral discussion was already done before she got to the counter.

I don't understand why individuals who think this way don't realize that the next step is a Jehovah's witness RN refusing to give blood transfusions, or a Jewish hospital refusing to provide ER services on Saturday, or any other religious permutation someone can think up.

Now if you say, pass a law that requires someone be on staff who can help said woman at all times, that is fine, and most likely will retain the support of the public.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

In rural Florida, there is maybe one pharmacy in town. Also, in rural Florida, the majority would not fill plan B, based on their religious views. It's pretty close to Alabama. I'm sure the other rural southern states are the same.

True in Kentucky as well. You might have a 20-45 minute drive to get to town and there is usually only 1 pharmacy in town. Sometimes it's a chain, sometimes it's an independent.

If that pharmacy doesn't do Plan B, there aren't any good options for patients. I think that's unfortunate for patients, but I don't know what can be done about it.