Damar Hamlin

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greatnt249 said:
Do you know what else is ridiculously rare? Myocarditis from COVID vaccine.
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Yeshua wants us to believe the the player had vaccine induced myocarditis that caused zero functional limitation and was completely asymptomatic up to the point of him being struck really hard in the chest, and then all of a sudden the myocarditis jumps out and caused the cardiac arrest. Yeah... that makes a ton of sense.

I'm sure Damar Hamlin is getting a battery of cardiac testing in hospital and aside from a transient bump in cardiac enzymes due to chest compressions and defib.. everything is going to be 100% normal.

When you hear hoofbeats think of a horse not a zebra. Yeshua wants us to think of a Bigfoot.
 
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dannyboy1 said:
Also. Codes that we run have the airway secured quickly and definitively. I know I know … compressions first. But it certainly helps outcomes if you are moving oxygenated blood. I suspect ventilation didn’t happen to Hamlin for at least 5 minutes. Even then, was probably with a mask not ETT
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Shouldn't interrupt chest compressions to secure the airway. Worse outcomes that way. Unsecured airway with vent 30:2 is fine.
 
coffeebythelake said:
Yeshua wants us to believe the the player had vaccine induced myocarditis that caused zero functional limitation and was completely asymptomatic up to the point of him being struck really hard in the chest, and then all of a sudden the myocarditis jumps out and caused the cardiac arrest. Yeah... that makes a ton of sense.

I'm sure Damar Hamlin is getting a battery of cardiac testing in hospital and aside from a transient bump in cardiac enzymes due to chest compressions and defib.. everything is going to be 100% normal.

When you hear hoofbeats think of a horse not a zebra. Yeshua wants us to think of a Bigfoot.
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Funny thing is, commotio cordis can happen to anyone; there doesn't need to be a predisposing factor or condition on the patient's part, just a well (poor?) timed delivery of the right amount of energy to the patient's precordium. It doesn't even have look like a "hard impact"...think of it like delivering a defibrillator shock at 50 J right at the onset of the T wave.
 
I hadn’t watched the video in a couple days but just watched it again now. Hamlin isn’t a large guy. Tee Higgins isn’t small (6'4", 220). That was direct shoulder to chest. Looked pretty hard if you ask me. Definitely hard enough to produce R on T.
 
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Yeah, sounds like best case scenario assuming he can recover from his ARDS/pulmonary edema.

My guess is they went and did hypothermia on arrival and woke him up today with his FiO2 down. Probably needs a day or two before extubation.
 
greatnt249 said:
Funny thing is, commotio cordis can happen to anyone; there doesn't need to be a predisposing factor or condition on the patient's part, just a well (poor?) timed delivery of the right amount of energy to the patient's precordium. It doesn't even have look like a "hard impact"...think of it like delivering a defibrillator shock at 50 J right at the onset of the T wave.
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Agree. The electophysiologist I work with said the same. It takes a thump at the exact right time with the right amount of energy. It’s just a very rare occurrence
 
Just a thought experiment.
Obviously NNT does not make sense.
 
I think the criticism of the reaction time to starting CPR is kinda tough. These folks see people get concussed and end up knocked out fairly frequently. Add in all the protective gear and I can see it taking a minute to realize that this was different. Lots of interesting details that may come out eventually. How long until he was shocked. The ambulance waited for his family to get down from the stands so was he stable/awake at that point (one report said they waited 15min). Did he or didn't he code again in the ER. What is going on with his lungs. Did he have predisposing factors or was this actually just commotio cordis.

I can't believe there is a real life MAGA kook physician in this thread talking about COVID vaccines.
 
The ICU docs just hosted a press conference. They said I've found of CPR and one defibrillation. That's it. Said it was a textbook response to a cardiac arrest. Can't get much better than that.

Said the first thing he asked on his notepad when awake was 'who won?'
 
Gastrapathy said:
I think the criticism of the reaction time to starting CPR is kinda tough. These folks see people get concussed and end up knocked out fairly frequently. Add in all the protective gear and I can see it taking a minute to realize that this was different. Lots of interesting details that may come out eventually. How long until he was shocked. The ambulance waited for his family to get down from the stands so was he stable/awake at that point (one report said they waited 15min). Did he or didn't he code again in the ER. What is going on with his lungs. Did he have predisposing factors or was this actually just commotio cordis.

I can't believe there is a real life MAGA kook physician in this thread talking about COVID vaccines.
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From the press conference there was no reaction time.

He had a pulse when the athletic trainers arrived, then he lost it and “bystander CPR” began immediately.

The apparent “delay” was the fact that he initially had a pulse.
 
apnews.com

Claims baselessly link COVID vaccines to athlete deaths

False. The researchers cited a number from a blog that lists news stories about recent deaths and medical emergencies among people of all ages, from all over the world — some of which were attributed to other causes, such as cancer.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
Gastrapathy said:
I think the criticism of the reaction time to starting CPR is kinda tough. These folks see people get concussed and end up knocked out fairly frequently. Add in all the protective gear and I can see it taking a minute to realize that this was different. Lots of interesting details that may come out eventually. How long until he was shocked. The ambulance waited for his family to get down from the stands so was he stable/awake at that point (one report said they waited 15min). Did he or didn't he code again in the ER. What is going on with his lungs. Did he have predisposing factors or was this actually just commotio cordis.

I can't believe there is a real life MAGA kook physician in this thread talking about COVID vaccines.
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That's not fair. Most of my friends vote GOP yet have been vaccinated. I won't even post the number of shots I have gotten since the Mrna based vaccines became available. All I will say is that I am going to get boosted again in a few months with the updated version.

Vaccines work and despite the minimal risks, I recommend them. FYI, I bet Tucker has been boosted as well as most of Fox news.
 
BLADEMDA said:
FYI, I bet Tucker has been boosted as well as most of Fox news.
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Yeah but that doesn’t stop Tucker from spreading vaccine misinformation or sowing vaccine doubt. What he said on his show was was very intentional and there’s a reason he had a vaccine skeptic as opposed to a vaccine proponent. Tucker and his producers at FoxNews know that spreading doubt and misinformation drives clicks/views/money, and even though people like you who’ve all been vaccinated will continue to be so, it won’t stop you from watching Tucker. In short, he’s a complete hack and everyone should know it. But millions still watch because either they don’t know better or they don’t care.
 
greatnt249 said:
Do you know what else is ridiculously rare? Myocarditis from COVID vaccine.
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In my circle of physicians, my dad was tachycardic for months following his COVID vaccine series, another attending in his early 40’s went into a fib a few weeks following his shot (previously thin and healthy). None of them reported these instances to VAERS. Anyway, I could go on and on but it’s not ridiculously rare for people to get cardiac issues at all.

On another note, it’s great to see Hamlin showing signs of recovery. Let’s hope he can pull through.
 
Spikebd said:
In my circle of physicians, my dad was tachycardic for months following his COVID vaccine series, another attending in his early 40’s went into a fib a few weeks following his shot (previously thin and healthy). None of them reported these instances to VAERS. Anyway, I could go on and on but it’s not ridiculously rare for people to get cardiac issues at all.

On another note, it’s great to see Hamlin showing signs of recovery. Let’s hope he can pull through.
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Anecdote =/= data. Furthermore, I specifically said myocarditis, not vague cardiac symptoms or atrial fibrillation, which is common enough that you can't just say "must have been the vaccine."
 
greatnt249 said:
Anecdote =/= data. Furthermore, I specifically said myocarditis, not vague cardiac symptoms or atrial fibrillation, which is common enough that you can't just say "must have been the vaccine."
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👆 this is what happens when you quit questioning reality.
 
Spikebd said:
In my circle of physicians, my dad was tachycardic for months following his COVID vaccine series, another attending in his early 40’s went into a fib a few weeks following his shot (previously thin and healthy). None of them reported these instances to VAERS. Anyway, I could go on and on but it’s not ridiculously rare for people to get cardiac issues at all.
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Covid vaccine induced myocarditis. That's what we are talking about. Please don't tell me you also think what happened to Damar is because of a vaccine.
 
Spikebd said:
You should Google Myocarditis and atrial fibrillation.
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Before I get too much further into this, I'm curious as to what your credentials are. The appropriate thing to do would be to search those things on UptoDate or some other medical reference, not a broad Google search.
 
Spikebd said:
You should Google Myocarditis and atrial fibrillation.
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What does googling atrial fibrillation have to do with my comment? I feel like I'm talking to someone who has lost their train of thought. Let me make this simple. If you care to wager... I bet you 500 bucks Damar Hamlin doesn't have covid myocarditis.
 
you guys are disappointing bickering about covid vaccine after some incredible news and a young man alive and intact and a team that did a great job saving him

to all you all on here arguing about GOP this and covid that

shameful

can't even wait one day at least and just all be happy the kid is ok and that team did a great job?

come onnnnnn mannnnnn
 
Vandalia said:
Yes. Explicitly stated at this afternoon’s press conference by the physicians that he was proned for ARDS.
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I know I shouldn't be criticizing their management, but I'm going to regardless.

You don't get ARDS in that short of a time frame and it doesn't get better that quickly either. It was almost certainly pulmonary edema and the proning probably wasn't indicated.

I can only imagine how difficult it is to manage a patient in a situation like this so I do empathize, but aspiration pneumonitis (the only other possible differential) doesn't occur this immediately.
 
greatnt249 said:
You're proposing that everyone playing a contact sport (or even noncontact sport if a projectile is involved) wear a Life Vest in the exceedingly unlikely probability that a commotio cordis event happens?

What everyone witnessed was a freak accident that little can be done to mitigate (assuming it was commotio cordis, which is the easiest explanation for what happened).
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There is a requirement that all little leaguers and lacrosse players wear an approved heart protection pad.


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The Maverik Shift EKG lacrosse speed Pads is one of the best new pads our Pro’s have tried on that meet the new NOCSAE standard. Our Pro’s favor this lacrosse speed Pads because it offers a modular system Maverik Shift EKG Speed Pad$149.99 | Lowest Price Guaranteed | Shop the Best Shoulder Pads...
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  • External Kardiac Guard (EKG) meets new NOCSAE performance standard ND200 to help address Commotio Cordis
 
Ronin786 said:
I know I shouldn't be criticizing their management, but I'm going to regardless.

You don't get ARDS in that short of a time frame and it doesn't get better that quickly either. It was almost certainly pulmonary edema and the proning probably wasn't indicated.

I can only imagine how difficult it is to manage a patient in a situation like this so I do empathize, but aspiration pneumonitis (the only other possible differential) doesn't occur this immediately.
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Apparently he was admitted to a SICU and if a trauma surgeon was his intensivist, they probably just took the kitchen sink approach.
 
Ronin786 said:
I know I shouldn't be criticizing their management, but I'm going to regardless.

You don't get ARDS in that short of a time frame and it doesn't get better that quickly either. It was almost certainly pulmonary edema and the proning probably wasn't indicated.

I can only imagine how difficult it is to manage a patient in a situation like this so I do empathize, but aspiration pneumonitis (the only other possible differential) doesn't occur this immediately.
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I agree that proning probably wasn't indicated in this case, but I'll never forget this case I had a few years ago. Guy in his 30s, hx of GSW abdomen and multiple resections, anastomoses, and leaks. Had been in hospital for weeks. Stable'ish clinically on 2l O2, but had an ileus. Coming to OR for washout and G tube revision.

Long story short, at end of case CRNA pulls tube when he is stage 2ish and he aspirates. I come to room and she's fiddling around with trying to change pulse ox sites. Sat is like 70s. I re-intubate him, aline, ABG confirms hypoxia. Put him on LPV in the OR with high peep/fio2. Bronch and I'm able to get some of the schmutz out. Still can't get sat above 75. C-arm in, no pneumo or lobar collapse. I get the SICU attending to OR and we prone him. Gets the sat to high 70s low 80s. Guy is getting hypotensive at this point and is on levo and vaso. Over to ICU, prone, paralyzed, on APRV. No big response to inhaled flolan. No VV ecmo at the time. Sat never came up significantly and pressor requirement never came down. Dude didn't even last another 18 hrs.
 
lobelsteve said:
There is a requirement that all little leaguers and lacrosse players wear an approved heart protection pad.


www.lax.com

Maverik Shift EKG Speed Pad

The Maverik Shift EKG lacrosse speed Pads is one of the best new pads our Pro’s have tried on that meet the new NOCSAE standard. Our Pro’s favor this lacrosse speed Pads because it offers a modular system Maverik Shift EKG Speed Pad$149.99 | Lowest Price Guaranteed | Shop the Best Shoulder Pads...
www.lax.com www.lax.com

  • External Kardiac Guard (EKG) meets new NOCSAE performance standard ND200 to help address Commotio Cordis
Click to expand...
Mine did and that was 20 years ago.
 
lobelsteve said:
There is a requirement that all little leaguers and lacrosse players wear an approved heart protection pad.
Click to expand...
lobelsteve said:
www.lax.com

Maverik Shift EKG Speed Pad

The Maverik Shift EKG lacrosse speed Pads is one of the best new pads our Pro’s have tried on that meet the new NOCSAE standard. Our Pro’s favor this lacrosse speed Pads because it offers a modular system Maverik Shift EKG Speed Pad$149.99 | Lowest Price Guaranteed | Shop the Best Shoulder Pads...
www.lax.com www.lax.com

  • External Kardiac Guard (EKG) meets new NOCSAE performance standard ND200 to help address Commotio Cordis
Click to expand...


If masks are “excessive”, these protective devices to prevent commotio cordis seem equally excessive. For the record, I’m for masks and for chest protection for kids.
 
dipriMAN said:
Let’s hope that this live coverage and publicity prompts more civilians to learn CPR or take a basic BLS course. We should be teaching more people BLS, takeaway should be prompt CPR and AEDs save lives.
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Also hope the public will appreciate the field of medicine more. No more CMS cuts? (one can dream).
 
Assuming he has a normal echo, ekg, and full recovery, I wonder the odds he leaves the hospital with an ICD. Theoretically his risk of commotio is no higher than any other player. I am assuming he will still want to play and be allowed to play football. Would a defib disallow him from playing?

Perhaps he gets no ICD but he's a 24yo who arrested when no one else has, and these players get hit in the chest all the time. Anyone have any insight?
 
Yeshua said:
There’s only 20-30 commotio cases reported per year and most common in little kids. The elephant in the room is the covid vaccine. I’m not saying that’s to blame but we know it’s being discussed elsewhere.
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Oh Lord.

Of course!!!

Tee Higgins had the covid vaccine hidden in his jersey and stabbed him right in the heart at the moment he was tackled.

Case closed.

Please take this nonsense elsewhere
 
JOHNBROCHILL said:
Assuming he has a normal echo, ekg, and full recovery, I wonder the odds he leaves the hospital with an ICD. Theoretically his risk of commotio is no higher than any other player. I am assuming he will still want to play and be allowed to play football. Would a defib disallow him from playing?

Perhaps he gets no ICD but he's a 24yo who arrested when no one else has, and these players get hit in the chest all the time. Anyone have any insight?
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Assuming this was due to commotio cordis alone, I think whether he gets an ICD would be dependent on the opinion(s) of who's involved in his care. I don't believe there would be an absolute indication for one, but any time a young person has a cardiac arrest, people are going to be on edge. Echo alone might be difficult to make a judgment on at this moment, because cardiac contusion could very well still be on the table, and just the trauma of resuscitation alone might mean his myocardium could be somewhat stunned for now. I don't think there's really any chance of him returning to football for at least the remainder of the season, but I'm not there and can only speculate based on available information.

I'm sure at this point now that it at least appears they are making progress toward exiting the critical phase of his admission (though it sounds like he's still intubated), they're going to be diving deeper into any sort of contributing factor to his cardiac arrest, such as channelopathies (Brugada, long QT, etc), HCM, congenital coronary malformations, catecholaminergic VT, any underlying factor that increases his future risk of SCD, which, if found, would almost guarantee him an ICD for secondary prevention (at least in my opinion), which would, at that point, likely mean the end of his football playing career.
 
JOHNBROCHILL said:
Assuming he has a normal echo, ekg, and full recovery, I wonder the odds he leaves the hospital with an ICD. Theoretically his risk of commotio is no higher than any other player. I am assuming he will still want to play and be allowed to play football. Would a defib disallow him from playing?

Perhaps he gets no ICD but he's a 24yo who arrested when no one else has, and these players get hit in the chest all the time. Anyone have any insight?
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Eligibility and Disqualification Recommendations for Competitive Athletes With Cardiovascular Abnormalities: Task Force 13: Commotio Cordis​


TLDR: No mention of ICD as part of prevention or return to play (with otherwise negative cardiac workup).
 
Yeshua said:
For one I never said I believe that’s what caused his cardiac arrest. I’m saying the general public is questioning why young people are dropping dead and it certainly is something to discuss. To just immediately say it’s commotio which is ridiculously rare plus the guy had shoulder pads that cover his chest when he was hit. People on here freak out if the vaccine is even mentioned or for God’s sake questioned. So are we still pushing boosters on this forum?
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Who's dropping dead?

I am still waiting for the first admit to my hospital for a covid vaccine related complication...
 
JOHNBROCHILL said:
Assuming he has a normal echo, ekg, and full recovery, I wonder the odds he leaves the hospital with an ICD. Theoretically his risk of commotio is no higher than any other player. I am assuming he will still want to play and be allowed to play football. Would a defib disallow him from playing?

Perhaps he gets no ICD but he's a 24yo who arrested when no one else has, and these players get hit in the chest all the time. Anyone have any insight?
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No ICD unless there is an intrinsic anatomic or electrophysiologic abnormality that would predispose him to recurrent episode of VT/VF.
 
UscGhost said:
Who's dropping dead?

I am still waiting for the first admit to my hospital for a covid vaccine related complication...
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According to Yeshua these thousands of young patients are admitted directly to morgue. That's why u don't see them in the hospital. Nobody hears about it either because Biden and Jerome Adams sends a hit squad to take out their families too.
 
coffeebythelake said:
According to Yeshua these thousands of young patients are admitted directly to morgue. That's why u don't see them in the hospital. Nobody hears about it either because Biden and Jerome Adams sends a hit squad to take out their families too.
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For sure.

Speaking of all that, has anyone received their check yet? You know, the one that all these conspiracy theorists say we are supposed to get? I think mine may have gotten lost in the mail…
 
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