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jondunn said:



Medicine has changed so much in the social media era with interns
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There are just so many issues with interpreters:

1. It massively slows things down
2. In my experience, interpreters vary tremendously in quality. Some are very, very good and interpret faithfully. Others appear to be completely out of their league and seem to confuse the patient and their family further.
3. In some cultures, adult children will handle all the conversation and will not keep their elder parent aware of the diagnosis, treatment or side effects to prevent "upsetting" them. Telling the adult children that you need informed consent from the patient, not them, is hard enough without an interpreter.
4. Some families insist on having family members interpret and in those cases you really have no idea what they are saying.
5. I've had many, many consults with interpreters only to be asked elementary questions later in the process by the patient making me wonder what was actually interpreted.
 
Gfunk6 said:
There are just so many issues with interpreters:

1. It massively slows things down
2. In my experience, interpreters vary tremendously in quality. Some are very, very good and interpret faithfully. Others appear to be completely out of their league and seem to confuse the patient and their family further.
3. In some cultures, adult children will handle all the conversation and will not keep their elder parent aware of the diagnosis, treatment or side effects to prevent "upsetting" them. Telling the adult children that you need informed consent from the patient, not them, is hard enough without an interpreter.
4. Some families insist on having family members interpret and in those cases you really have no idea what they are saying.
5. I've had many, many consults with interpreters only to be asked elementary questions later in the process by the patient making me wonder what was actually interpreted.
Click to expand...
It's all about outrage/call-out culture. No longer are we allowed to be frustrated at the cosmos for a sucky situation without it being attributed to racial etc bias, as opposed to just being tired and overworked in a system that doesn't actually give a **** about you. Added bonus of getting to work with people looking to call you out, which in turn discourages honesty, and in turn, will push us back towards segregating ourselves in order to just not have to hear it. As has been said in other threads, "The Coddling of the American Mind" sums this up pretty well. Though twitter does, too.
 
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Ray D. Ayshun said:
It's all about outrage/call-out culture. No longer are we allowed to be frustrated at the cosmos for a sucky situation without it being attributed to racial etc bias, as opposed to just being tired and overworked in a system that doesn't actually give a **** about you. Added bonus of getting to work with people looking to call you out, which in turn discourages honesty, and in turn, will push us back towards segregating ourselves in order to just not have to hear it. As has been said in other threads, "The Coddling of the American Mind" sums this up pretty well. Though twitter does to.
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Aside from the silliness of lobbing an aimless threat into the twitterverse, calling out someone for acknowledging that something is more difficult is the wrong idea. The only thing that kept me sane on bad days in medicine is the ability to complain about it to a colleague or friend. It's healthy.

Without venting, one might actually resent a patient for needing an interpreter, which is clearly wrong.
 
Gfunk6 said:
There are just so many issues with interpreters:

1. It massively slows things down
2. In my experience, interpreters vary tremendously in quality. Some are very, very good and interpret faithfully. Others appear to be completely out of their league and seem to confuse the patient and their family further.
3. In some cultures, adult children will handle all the conversation and will not keep their elder parent aware of the diagnosis, treatment or side effects to prevent "upsetting" them. Telling the adult children that you need informed consent from the patient, not them, is hard enough without an interpreter.
4. Some families insist on having family members interpret and in those cases you really have no idea what they are saying.
5. I've had many, many consults with interpreters only to be asked elementary questions later in the process by the patient making me wonder what was actually interpreted.
Click to expand...
I have reasonable facility with a second language, but too lazy to take the certification test. Have had interpreters fail on more than one occasion with anything from basic to complex topics, enough to where felt I needed to take over.

Definitely glad to no longer be in a position where I have to interact with special snowflakes of the med student/resident variety. Hope I can retire before they're out in practice.
 
jondunn said:



Medicine has changed so much in the social media era with interns
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Add this person to the list of self-identified people that I will likely never want to interact with, either in a personal or professional sense. That list has grown long and continues to grow the longer I spend on twitter. Caribbean grad, an intern 6 months into residency. Lot-a balls on that one. One always goes to get the YAASSS QUEEN crowd going though.

Although I do think it's funny that her IMMEDIATE next tweet after the above one was this:



Like... what do you think people are doing when complaining about an interpreter?? Venting.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Add this person to the list of self-identified people that I will likely never want to interact with, either in a personal or professional sense. That list has grown long and continues to grow the longer I spend on twitter. Caribbean grad, an intern 6 months into residency. Lot-a balls on that one. One always goes to get the YAASSS QUEEN crowd going though.

Although I do think it's funny that her IMMEDIATE next tweet after the above one was this:



Like... what do you think people are doing when complaining about an interpreter?? Venting.
Click to expand...

I hope someone is there to check her (I am sad to see she didn't give a preferred pronoun on her twitter account) respectfully.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Add this person to the list of self-identified people that I will likely never want to interact with, either in a personal or professional sense. That list has grown long and continues to grow the longer I spend on twitter. Caribbean grad, an intern 6 months into residency. Lot-a balls on that one. One always goes to get the YAASSS QUEEN crowd going though.

Although I do think it's funny that her IMMEDIATE next tweet after the above one was this:



Like... what do you think people are doing when complaining about an interpreter?? Venting.
Click to expand...

You're entitled to your opinion, but sorry I disagree. Does being a Caribbean grad or an intern mean you have no right to an opinion on hospital issues? And what do you mean by the "YAASSS QUEEN crowd"...sorry but this reeks.

Also, with regards to venting, did it ever occur to you that she is also venting? I think doctors are allowed to complain about interpreters, and doctors are allowed to complain about other doctors who outwardly complain about interpreters,,,it's probably all venting. The hospital system is our enemy, not each other!
 
Tsigolonco noitaidar said:
You're entitled to your opinion, but sorry I disagree. Does being a Caribbean grad or an intern mean you have no right to an opinion on hospital issues? And what do you mean by the "YAASSS QUEEN crowd"...sorry but this reeks.

Also, with regards to venting, did it ever occur to you that she is also venting? I think doctors are allowed to complain about interpreters, and doctors are allowed to complain about other doctors who outwardly complain about interpreters,,,it's probably all venting. The hospital system is our enemy, not each other!
Click to expand...
Many men are intimidated by a strong woman! Yaaaaaaas sister! I know that to be right!
 
Gfunk6 said:
5. I've had many, many consults with interpreters only to be asked elementary questions later in the process by the patient making me wonder what was actually interpreted.
Click to expand...


this happens in english too brah. some patients will talk to you for an hour and walk away with very little retention, we have all seen this
 
I did a transplant rotation with a “world famous” surgeon. The attending did not speak to me once. Only acknowledgement that i existed was referring to me as “the student” when telling scut orders to the fellow. It was a miserable rotation and i learned nothing. Absolutely agree. What a total sham.
 
Gfunk6 said:
There are just so many issues with interpreters:

1. It massively slows things down
2. In my experience, interpreters vary tremendously in quality. Some are very, very good and interpret faithfully. Others appear to be completely out of their league and seem to confuse the patient and their family further.
3. In some cultures, adult children will handle all the conversation and will not keep their elder parent aware of the diagnosis, treatment or side effects to prevent "upsetting" them. Telling the adult children that you need informed consent from the patient, not them, is hard enough without an interpreter.
4. Some families insist on having family members interpret and in those cases you really have no idea what they are saying.
5. I've had many, many consults with interpreters only to be asked elementary questions later in the process by the patient making me wonder what was actually interpreted.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with venting. I personally despise working with interpreters. Not because it is the patient or interpreters fault, but any semblance of nuance gets lost and you can't pick up on any of the cues/responses to your words that help guide the conversation. It's fine for getting answers to simple questions, but my least favorite thing is doing the new prostate cancer talk through interpreters. I can/will provide good care, but it is hard to have an informed discussion about a complex topic like the relative pros/cons of expanded criteria AS vs. ralp vs. xrt vs. brachytherapy, and oftentimes the decision ends up being more prescriptive/paternalistic rather then patient centered/driven just due to lack of understanding.
 
Mandelin Rain said:
Medical training really sucks. The fact you go like a half million into debt for it sucks even worse. I'm thankful every day that it's behind me.

I try my best to be kind to students when they come around.
Click to expand...


its actually insane how ****ty medical training is. like so much of medical school.

the difference now is these students and residents actually feel like they can say something.
 
RadOncMegatron said:
So in other words a normal, typical, med student, surgery experience.
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I went down the rabbit hole and read the rest of the tweets by this individual. This person is clearly not well-adjusted, and it's sad that allowing a young person, especially a med student, to continue to function at a near-debilitating level of neuroticism has become not only normalized, but praised. In the past, somebody writing these things publicly and acting this way would have resulted in a trip to the dean's office and a mental health evaluation to try and get this person the help, coping skills, and resilience needed to function not only as a physician, but on a basic level in society.
 
Moonbeams said:
it's sad that allowing a young person, especially a med student, to continue to function at a near-debilitating level of neuroticism has become not only normalized, but praised. In the past, somebody writing these things publicly and acting this way would have resulted in a trip to the dean's office and a mental health evaluation to try and get this person the help, coping skills, and resilience needed to function not only as a physician, but on a basic level in society
Click to expand...
Wait 'til about, oh, 5 to 10 years from now for the med students that will be coming through then. It's going to be... interesting.
 
TheWallnerus said:
Wait 'til about, oh, 5 to 10 years from now for the med students that will be coming through then. It's going to be... interesting.
Click to expand...
To be honest with you, in 5-10 years I fully expect to start having accidents and sucking my thumb
 
Tsigolonco noitaidar said:
You're entitled to your opinion, but sorry I disagree. Does being a Caribbean grad or an intern mean you have no right to an opinion on hospital issues? And what do you mean by the "YAASSS QUEEN crowd"...sorry but this reeks.

Also, with regards to venting, did it ever occur to you that she is also venting? I think doctors are allowed to complain about interpreters, and doctors are allowed to complain about other doctors who outwardly complain about interpreters,,,it's probably all venting. The hospital system is our enemy, not each other!
Click to expand...
I disagree. The post that got this started suggested that she would "check" whomever vented. Iow, she would presume their venting was the product of some underlying pathos that needed correcting. This approach to venting will in turn cause your co-workers to refrain from venting in order to avoid the judgement. Her post is a standard approach of the woke gen to divide the world into good and bad people. She's the one making enemies. Imho.
 
Ray D. Ayshun said:
She's the one making enemies.
Click to expand...
I have no idea. But to me the issue is that social media is a public forum. Anyone who engages in it is consciously choosing to live a public life and there are (used to be?) different rules for public behaviors.

Nothing wrong with an intern venting to her friends about someone she thinks is an out of touch attending (a time honored tradition). To make this a public proclamation (which is what a twitter post is) is what is bothering us.

I don't really hold the younger folks in low esteem and in some ways I think they may be better than us. But on average, they sure as hell don't care about privacy and privacy is what used to allow honesty (as well as abuse). Their willingness to make any interaction public by default brings others into the public sphere and I think this is what is meant by the term "woke mob". It is a peculiar enforcement mechanism.

edit: in between honesty and abuse are local hierarchies (like attending-->intern; chair-->assistant prof). These also depend on these relationships being largely private or at least non-public. The demolishment of private life has been shockingly democratizing.
 
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communitydoc13 said:
I have no idea. But to me the issue is that social media is a public forum. Anyone who engages in it is consciously choosing to live a public life and there are (used to be?) different rules for public behaviors.

Nothing wrong with an intern venting to her friends about someone she thinks is an out of touch attending (a time honored tradition). To make this a public proclamation (which is what a twitter post is) is what is bothering us.

I don't really hold the younger folks in low esteem and in some ways I think they may be better than us. But on average, they sure as hell don't care about privacy and privacy is what used to allow honesty (as well as abuse). Their willingness to make any interaction public by default brings others into the public sphere and I think this is what is meant by the term "woke mob". It is a peculiar enforcement mechanism.

edit: in between honesty and abuse are local hierarchies (like attending-->intern; chair-->assistant prof). These also depend on these relationships being largely private or at least non-public. The demolishment of private life has been shockingly democratizing.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you said, and in this case, didn't mean the tweet she put out was one that would make enemies. Rather, she seems to be hinting that she's excited/loaded for buck, and ready to put in place anyone who vents in a way that's she thinks is out of line with her world-view. In turn, she comes off as excited to have the chance to make enemies on the floor.
 
jondunn said:
Click to expand...

Its entirely possible that this attending surgeon may have been scolded by admin previously for "asking questions." Rather than offend a medical student by testing their knowledge... they just keep their mouth shut. And subsequently... they offend the medical students.

I feel sorry for academic attendings having to teach this cohort.

Personally.... any day on my surgery rotation that I did not have to interact with the surgeon was a win for me.
 
dieABRdie said:
Its entirely possible that this attending surgeon may have been scolded by admin previously for "asking questions." Rather than offend a medical student by testing their knowledge... they just keep their mouth shut. And subsequently... they offend the medical students.

I feel sorry for academic attendings having to teach this cohort.

Personally.... any day on my surgery rotation that I did not have to interact with the surgeon was a win for me.
Click to expand...


I definitely don’t feel sorry for any academic attendings. That’s a hard disagree from me
 
1641688566965.png

Maybe we can invite their leadership to give the Astro keynote?
 

Applicants are requested to submit a Statement of Contributions to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (typically between 150-300 words) providing your career aspirations and contributions toward promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. Through this statement, you can share how your lived experiences; and past, present, and future academic and professional activities have or will contribute to VCU’s mission of promoting equity and inclusion.

Note: Examples include working with others to further the goals of equity and inclusion; leading in any capacity that tangibly promotes an environment where diversity is welcomed, fostered, and celebrated; creative activity, research and scholarship that promotes equity and parity; teaching and mentoring students, and/or engaging with faculty and/or staff from traditionally underrepresented groups to create a positive and successful organizational experience.

Not sure where to post this, but wtf. Are we 17 applying to college again? What does this accomplish?

- "Tangibly promotes an environment." WTF does that even mean? Tangibly? Like as in I can touch it?
- "Promotes equity AND parity." Thesaurus.com says you left a few out: Unity, congruence, equivalence, sameness, consistency. Why don't you also need those? Are those not important? Wait, can we have consistency and diversity? Maybe we can be consistently diverse?
- "Lived experiences" As opposed to unlived experiences? What about lived experiences from past lives?
- "Engaging with faculty and/or staff from traditionally underrepresented groups" And/or? So I could chose to engage with either or? Engaging sounds violent. But maybe it's the good kind of engaging. The representation of a group should be the criteria upon which I choose to engage? I can think of numerous "groups" with very small numbers of people that are very bad. But maybe I can use the bad kind of engaging with them.
-"(typically between 150-300 words)" The irony of including a word limit in a 2 paragraph essay prompt that could have been simply reduced to a checkbox that said "Initial here that you promise not to be a hateful bigot or we will fire your ass."

There is a part of me that would really like to be back in academics, but I'm honestly not sure I could stomach the nonsense knowing that part of my production is going to fund employees who produce this kind of psuedoacademic adverbial drivel in an environment where they are protected from any criticism of it.
 
Moonbeams said:

Applicants are requested to submit a Statement of Contributions to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (typically between 150-300 words) providing your career aspirations and contributions toward promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. Through this statement, you can share how your lived experiences; and past, present, and future academic and professional activities have or will contribute to VCU’s mission of promoting equity and inclusion.

Note: Examples include working with others to further the goals of equity and inclusion; leading in any capacity that tangibly promotes an environment where diversity is welcomed, fostered, and celebrated; creative activity, research and scholarship that promotes equity and parity; teaching and mentoring students, and/or engaging with faculty and/or staff from traditionally underrepresented groups to create a positive and successful organizational experience.

Not sure where to post this, but wtf. Are we 17 applying to college again? What does this accomplish?

- "Tangibly promotes an environment." WTF does that even mean? Tangibly? Like as in I can touch it?
- "Promotes equity AND parity." Thesaurus.com says you left a few out: Unity, congruence, equivalence, sameness, consistency. Why don't you also need those? Are those not important? Wait, can we have consistency and diversity? Maybe we can be consistently diverse?
- "Lived experiences" As opposed to unlived experiences? What about lived experiences from past lives?
- "Engaging with faculty and/or staff from traditionally underrepresented groups" And/or? So I could chose to engage with either or? Engaging sounds violent. But maybe it's the good kind of engaging. The representation of a group should be the criteria upon which I choose to engage? I can think of numerous "groups" with very small numbers of people that are very bad. But maybe I can use the bad kind of engaging with them.
-"(typically between 150-300 words)" The irony of including a word limit in a 2 paragraph essay prompt that could have been simply reduced to a checkbox that said "Initial here that you promise not to be a hateful bigot or we will fire your ass."

There is a part of me that would really like to be back in academics, but I'm honestly not sure I could stomach the nonsense knowing that part of my production is going to fund employees who produce this kind of psuedoacademic adverbial drivel in an environment where they are protected from any criticism of it.
Click to expand...
Here's an example of using something tangible (a sign) to promote a more aware medical community
1643215545118.png
 
Moonbeams said:

Applicants are requested to submit a Statement of Contributions to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (typically between 150-300 words) providing your career aspirations and contributions toward promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. Through this statement, you can share how your lived experiences; and past, present, and future academic and professional activities have or will contribute to VCU’s mission of promoting equity and inclusion.
Click to expand...

I think a statement akin to this was required for hiring at the University of California hospital system (UC San Diego) last time I looked a few years ago.

Also a position was tweeted by Emma Fields a week or two ago and was advertised as an "intown satellite facility" with "day to day function like PP." I imagine this is the same position.
 
@Moonbeams Glad this is after my time - even 2 years ago I was not seeing crap like this. Part of this sounds like "Tell us about your black friends".

Main campus already has 1AA and 1 Hispanic doctor out of 6 total, which is probably better than what most departments can claim nationwide. But, they know what they want in a job, and somebody thinking like Moonbeams... they don't want him/her. Unless you're willing to fake it to work in 'faux-academics' at a VCU satellite. I'm sure VCU can be picky like this and still get 100+ job applications though...

The focus on equity is interesting to me. That means one must treat URMs better than you treat non-URMs, as we must assume all URMs come from a more inherently disadvantaged background, and thus require more "support" to reach the same level as a non-URM.
I am 100% on board with equality (treat everyone equally), just wonder if equity, rather than grace, at an individual level, is what's best here.
 
Tsigolonco noitaidar said:
Sounds like this forum to me!
Click to expand...

Criticize something about a diversity initiative here. (Whether or not they actually accomplish what they aim to accomplish is always a good starting point).
Then criticize something about a diversity initiative to your university's inclusion dean (for extra points, do it on Twitter).

Report back which environment was more welcoming of criticism without censorship and threats to your livelihood.

fiji128 said:
I think a statement akin to this was required for hiring at the University of California hospital system (UC San Diego) last time I looked a few years ago.

Also a position was tweeted by Emma Fields a week or two ago and was advertised as an "intown satellite facility" with "day to day function like PP." I imagine this is the same position.
Click to expand...

No doubt it's a university-level thing. I'm sure the basketball coach has to write an essay too. I definitely would not blame the rad onc department for something like this.
 
Moonbeams said:
No doubt it's a university-level thing. I'm sure the basketball coach has to write an essay too. I definitely would not blame the rad onc department for something like this.
Click to expand...

100% a university level or state type of thing. Of note, MCV did not attach the "Diversity Focus" tag to the ad.
 
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