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RadOncDoc21 said:
Crazy how all this was going on for years but the power of the tweet is what actually took him out.
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Social media can be a a tool for change sometimes....

I've always thought it's never a good thing to be on it as a chair or person of importance. Only bad things can happen and Dr Lieberman found that out the hard way that being on SoMe can be a really bad idea
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RickyScott said:
Anecdotally, Latinx seem to be well represented in oncology?
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Latinos are under-represented in radiation oncology, at least from the last bit of data I saw. Definitely notable Latinos in the history of our specialty, though, including Carlos Perez.
 
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OTN said:
Latinos are under-represented in radiation oncology, at least from the last bit of data I saw. Definitely notable Latinos in the history of our specialty, though, including Carlos Perez.
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That’s probably to their benefit honestly.
 
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OTN said:
Latinos are under-represented in radiation oncology, at least from the last bit of data I saw. Definitely notable Latinos in the history of our specialty, though, including Carlos Perez.
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Danny Dosoretz. Or is he White Hispanic so doesn’t count?
 
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Chartreuse Wombat said:
Danny Dosoretz. Or is he White Hispanic so doesn’t count?
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Only on this thread can I even mention what I’m going to say but goes back to the Whoopi Jewish argument. If you can pass as “white,” totally different experience.
 
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pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dispelling myths: The case for women in radiology and radiation oncology - PubMed

Common misconceptions about radiology and radiation oncology exist and may dissuade women from pursuing these specialties. The American Association for Women in Radiology (AAWR) Medical Student Outreach Subcommittee began a multi-year social media campaign aimed at addressing these myths. Here...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So many myths out there. Necessary!
 
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temujim said:
Is she saying success and motherhood are different things? Weird.
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Well done

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temujim said:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dispelling myths: The case for women in radiology and radiation oncology - PubMed

Common misconceptions about radiology and radiation oncology exist and may dissuade women from pursuing these specialties. The American Association for Women in Radiology (AAWR) Medical Student Outreach Subcommittee began a multi-year social media campaign aimed at addressing these myths. Here...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So many myths out there. Necessary!
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What are these myths ??
 
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It's basically an editorial about a bunch of tweets they did.

"Myth: radiology and radiation oncology are not family friendly
Myth: radiologists and radiation oncologists don't see patients
Myth: radiologists and radiation oncologists are unsociable and function in solitude
Myth: global health is not an option in radiology and radiation oncology
Myth: radiologists and radiation oncologists are exposed to harmful levels of radiation
Myth: you have to be a computer scientist or hold a PhD in physics to be a good radiologist or radiation oncologist
Myth: radiologists and radiation oncologists will be replaced by artificial intelligence (AI)
Myth: radiology and radiation oncology do not provide much in the way of work-life integration"

A glaring omission (and maybe a #RADFACT) is a commentary about the job market.
 
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We have turned into a nation of *****s. And that’s just considering these … uh … doctors.

(Can you believe that “more-on” is bleeped ??)
 
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brushbeamscanning said:
View attachment 351480
It's basically an editorial about a bunch of tweets they did.

"Myth: radiology and radiation oncology are not family friendly
Myth: radiologists and radiation oncologists don't see patients
Myth: radiologists and radiation oncologists are unsociable and function in solitude
Myth: global health is not an option in radiology and radiation oncology
Myth: radiologists and radiation oncologists are exposed to harmful levels of radiation
Myth: you have to be a computer scientist or hold a PhD in physics to be a good radiologist or radiation oncologist
Myth: radiologists and radiation oncologists will be replaced by artificial intelligence (AI)
Myth: radiology and radiation oncology do not provide much in the way of work-life integration"

A glaring omission (and maybe a #RADFACT) is a commentary about the job market.
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Everybody is laughing at us right now. Myth of no family time in Rad Onc and Radiology?!?! Who said that? All of us and our colleagues no these are one of the perks. Surgeons are probably dying laughing at us…
 
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RadOncMegatron said:
Everybody is laughing at us right now. Myth of no family time in Rad Onc and Radiology?!?! Who said that? All of us and our colleagues no these are one of the perks. Surgeons are probably dying laughing at us…
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I'm not understanding. did they have shills plant these "myths".
 
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This comes down to the debate about equity vs equality.

The biggest problem (in my approximation, at least) with striving for equity > equality is that not every group has the same goals. Maybe there are less women in rad onc because it is less appealing to them.

These patronizing folks are responding by saying 'more women would want to go into to Rad Onc... if they only KNEW THE TRUTH'
 
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Ray D. Ayshun said:
I'm not understanding why they think women need help dispelling these myths in this way. It's kind of insulting.
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The myths themselves are completely contrived and inappropriate. “Radiologist’s are Anti-social”? They’re medical people representing a medical society. “Anti-social” is an actual medical diagnosis that probably shouldn’t be flippantly tossed around in this manner.

Here’s the deal though. We all know these fields are overloaded with (many times highly privileged, as in daddy is the chairman) whites and ORM. As more and more academic jobs require Commitment to DEI statements, I think you’re going to see more and more people pad their CV with something they hope will check the box. Academic medicine is a game, and people select out to be good at it or not. The authors of this know full well that women aren’t avoiding radiology because they heard “all radiologists are anti social.”
 
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I just can’t get over how condescending and stupid this is.
 
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Lamount said:
not every group has the same goals
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I agree here (although this argument is often used to dismiss disparities with real bad underlying causes). I strongly believe in equity at the med-student level, because medicine is just such a social and performative thing. We are at a point where we should be finding ways to encourage men to pursue medicine and even college in general.

Last I checked OB/GYN pretty brutal. Tough call, tough work hours after residency, OR intensive for many docs. I couldn't do it. Everyone knows its a bear but rewarding for the highly committed.

82% women in residency.
 
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communitydoc13 said:
I agree here (although this argument is often used to dismiss disparities with real bad underlying causes). I strongly believe in equity at the med-student level, because medicine is just such a social and performative thing. We are at a point where we should be finding ways to encourage men to pursue medicine and even college in general.

Last I checked OB/GYN pretty brutal. Tough call, tough work hours after residency, OR intensive for many docs. I couldn't do it. Everyone knows its a bear but rewarding for the highly committed.

82% women in residency.
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I absolutely agree. I think equity is an important goal in situations when it can be reasonably assumed that all parties are equally interested in the outcome. This assumption is certainly reasonable vis a vis leading a healthy, safe, and prosperous life... and it probably even reasonable in terms of attending college/medical school.

However, in my limited experience, the representative differences in medical specialties cannot be explained merely by inequality of opportunity. e.g., anecdotally, in numerous health systems across numerous states, it is my experience that Russians are overrepresented in neurology, Greeks in vascular surgery, Indians in cardiology/GI, not to mention women in OB/Gyn (and Peds, I would imagine).
 
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Lamount said:
I absolutely agree. I think equity is an important goal in situations when it can be reasonably assumed that all parties are equally interested in the outcome. This assumption is certainly reasonable vis a vis leading a healthy, safe, and prosperous life... and it probably even reasonable in terms of attending college/medical school.

However, in my limited experience, the representative differences in medical specialties cannot be explained merely by inequality of opportunity. e.g., anecdotally, in numerous health systems across numerous states, it is my experience that Russians are overrepresented in neurology, Greeks in vascular surgery, Indians in cardiology/GI, not to mention women in OB/Gyn (and Peds, I would imagine).
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As long as Pareto distribution exists, which it always has, equity is not going to be an achievable outcome and should not be an organizing goal of a civilization or professional society.
 
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Lamount said:
Russians are overrepresented in neurology, Greeks in vascular surgery, Indians in cardiology/GI
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Haha! I think this is more about networking/role models in communities with fair numbers of docs. I can't imagine Greeks having a particular proclivity for vascular surgery! (Although per my own experience, both vascular surgeons and Greek people are exceptionally well dressed on average!)
 
Indians are over represented in all of medicine. I’m not sure more so in Cards or GI? RO seems very Indian.
 
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Lamount said:
This comes down to the debate about equity vs equality.

The biggest problem (in my approximation, at least) with striving for equity > equality is that not every group has the same goals. Maybe there are less women in rad onc because it is less appealing to them.

These patronizing folks are responding by saying 'more women would want to go into to Rad Onc... if they only KNEW THE TRUTH'
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In a free society, it is likely that observable trends of job specialization (not just in medicine) by gender will only increase rather than decrease.
 
RealSimulD said:
Indians are over represented in all of medicine. I’m not sure more so in Cards or GI? RO seems very Indian.
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Tell me about it. In the Bay Area, as far as Oncologists go, it seems that white people are the under-represented minority. Almost everyone is from the Indian subcontinent or Southeast Asia.
 
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Clearly Mayo doesn’t know about the myths!

 
Hot off the red urinal presses....


Most academic radiation oncology departments do not offer educational outreach specifically targeting women or minority students or promote the Minority Summer Fellowship. Further efforts are needed to break from the status quo and attract a more diverse workforce.
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medgator said:
Hot off the red urinal presses....

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Here on my twice-a-year check on this thread:

Maybe you guys have talked about this at some point - why is it OK to try to recruit women/minorities into the workforce, but any other more general questions about the workforce (as in, how many RadOncs do we have vs how many do we need) has been considered "antitrust"? Eichler made his blog post/comments only in 2021, and the workforce study announcement was last week or so, which means this stance must be changing.

To be clear, this is a rhetorical question, obviously. Hopefully, if the DOJ ever comes after anyone at ASTRO with these mythical lawsuits, anyone who has ever published or said anything about the workforce - including diversity - for the last 10 years are all named as defendants.
 
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elementaryschooleconomics said:
.

To be clear, this is a rhetorical question, obviously. Hopefully, if the DOJ ever comes after anyone at ASTRO with these mythical lawsuits, anyone who has ever published or said anything about the workforce - including diversity - for the last 10 years are all named as defendants.
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In a nutshell, essentially why ASTRO has zero credibility on this issue.... Harari brought up that bogus **** 3 years ago after the first bad match in over a decade, while giving a free pass to Hallahan and the DEI crowd for years prior
 
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I happened to know the authors and your assessment is not wrong
 
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temujim said:
I long for the days when the red journal was packed with retrospective reviews that occasionally could suggest how to practice.
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Back in the day before any halfway decent rad onc research ended up in the JCO and you could still find radiation pubs in nejm and JAMA
 
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temujim said:
I long for the days when the red journal was packed with retrospective reviews that occasionally could suggest how to practice.
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Evidently (based on my cursory search) those days were prior to the year 2012 or so when the first fully fleshed "diversity piece" appeared in the Red Journal. This period roughly correlates with the beginning of Rad Onc's decline... yes or no?!?
 
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temujim said:
Also correlates with zeitman's start as editor. Sounds about right.
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and the DIE stuff will just continue. Nice emphasis for those 36 unmatched slots today.
 
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From social media, it seems that disproportionately few white males are matching into #radonc. Is this progress?
 
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Gfunk6 said:
Canary in the coal mine. When whitey exits, it’s time for all hands to abandon ship
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Well, if the “white men of Radonc” (I.e. the Indian men) leave that’s when you things are real bad
 
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