DARTMOUTH vs. U. MIAMI vs. RUSH

[ick19]

Hi everyone, I would love to hear your thoughts!

Info: I want to match either in Massachusetts or Georgia (family ties to both), but prefer to be in the south long term. I'm interested in Emergency Medicine/Trauma or OB/GYN, but do not want to rule out Derm/Infectious Disease or whatever may absorb my attention. I am very used to the cold, but really wanted to end up in Georgia this cycle (warm, but it can get chilly outside = perfect) - that clearly did not work out .

I am very interested in community/global health and love being active in the community. I want a supportive environment. I went to a Northeast Ivy and honestly went home every other weekend to re-energize lol. Lifestyle is very important to me as is feeling connected to my surroundings and community. Smaller class sizes are appealing.

Dartmouth
Pros:
Prestige
Amazing Match results
Great clinical training
Easy to attain research opportunities
Less than 4 hours from home driving
Small class size, ample opportunities/connections

Cons:
Expensive
Severe lack of racial diversity
Ruralx100 (But opportunity to do away rotations in San Fran exist). I may feel isolated here?
Shouldn’t the Cost of Living be cheaper?!

U. Miami
Pros:
Patient population amazingly diverse and exactly aligns with where I see myself practicing after residency.
Research opportunities everywhere
Clinical sites are nearby and see interesting cases
Many opportunities to work with underserved populations/participate in clinical care
The gym was breathtaking.

Cons:
Felt like an ant on the campus
Miami is unbearable in March, imagine the summer…
On interview day, everything just seemed so busy and hustle&bustle-esk. Made me question whether faculty would notice if a student was struggling.
*Have not received financial aid yet

Rush
Pros:
The city reminded me of home, I have friends in Chicago
Clinical training is amazing
Patient population amazingly diverse and exactly aligns with where I see myself practicing after residency.
Many opportunities to work with underserved populations/participate in clinical care
Systems-based curriculum

Cons:
Completely flipped classroom(?). Idk how I will feel about this.
After financial aid, Rush is more expensive than Dartmouth. YIKES
Mandatory attendance policy

@Goro @gyngyn @HomeSkool @LizzyM @Catalystik

Thank you everyone!

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[puahate]

Leaning towards Miami tbh. Dartmouth as an undergrad institution has clout but it is kind of overrated in medicine. Out of all the "ivy med schools," I feel like Dartmouth is the worst and subsequently a bad deal money wise. All the other Ivy schools are in diverse busy cities with diverse patient populations. Dartmouth lacks in that in my opinion.

U Miami is associated with a large and diverse hospital system.

Also, it's freaking MIAMI BRO. Best place to relax when you need to. The other schools can't beat Miami's location.

 

[LondonFog1997]

Leaning towards Miami tbh. Dartmouth as an undergrad institution has clout but it is kind of overrated in medicine. Out of all the "ivy med schools," I feel like Dartmouth is the worst and subsequently a bad deal money wise. All the other Ivy schools are in diverse busy cities with diverse patient populations. Dartmouth lacks in that in my opinion.

U Miami is associated with a large and diverse hospital system.

Also, it's freaking MIAMI BRO. Best place to relax when you need to. The other schools can't beat Miami's location.

Dartmouth is lower ranked than many med schools but their match list is phenomenal. Name unfortunately does carry a lot of clout. Just something to keep in mind too.

 

[Goro]

Hi everyone, I would love to hear your thoughts!

Info: I want to match either in Massachusetts or Georgia (family ties to both), but prefer to be in the south long term. I'm interested in Emergency Medicine/Trauma or OB/GYN, but do not want to rule out Derm/Infectious Disease or whatever may absorb my attention. I am very used to the cold, but really wanted to end up in Georgia this cycle (warm, but it can get chilly outside = perfect) - that clearly did not work out .

I am very interested in community/global health and love being active in the community. I want a supportive environment. I went to a Northeast Ivy and honestly went home every other weekend to re-energize lol. Lifestyle is very important to me as is feeling connected to my surroundings and community. Smaller class sizes are appealing.

Dartmouth
Pros:
Prestige
Amazing Match results
Great clinical training
Easy to attain research opportunities
Less than 4 hours from home driving
Small class size, ample opportunities/connections

Cons:
Expensive
Severe lack of racial diversity
Ruralx100 (But opportunity to do away rotations in San Fran exist). I may feel isolated here?
Shouldn’t the Cost of Living be cheaper?!

U. Miami
Pros:
Patient population amazingly diverse and exactly aligns with where I see myself practicing after residency.
Research opportunities everywhere
Clinical sites are nearby and see interesting cases
Many opportunities to work with underserved populations/participate in clinical care
The gym was breathtaking.

Cons:
Felt like an ant on the campus
Miami is unbearable in March, imagine the summer…
On interview day, everything just seemed so busy and hustle&bustle-esk. Made me question whether faculty would notice if a student was struggling.
*Have not received financial aid yet

Rush
Pros:
The city reminded me of home, I have friends in Chicago
Clinical training is amazing
Patient population amazingly diverse and exactly aligns with where I see myself practicing after residency.
Many opportunities to work with underserved populations/participate in clinical care
Systems-based curriculum

Cons:
Completely flipped classroom(?). Idk how I will feel about this.
After financial aid, Rush is more expensive than Dartmouth. YIKES
Mandatory attendance policy

@Goro @gyngyn @HomeSkool @LizzyM @Catalystik

Thank you everyone!

What do you like more, seafood vs Yankee pot roast vs that casserole they call Chicago pizza?

If you were my kid, I'd send you to Dartmouth.

 

[Arsartium]

Hi everyone, I would love to hear your thoughts!

Info: I want to match either in Massachusetts or Georgia (family ties to both), but prefer to be in the south long term. I'm interested in Emergency Medicine/Trauma or OB/GYN, but do not want to rule out Derm/Infectious Disease or whatever may absorb my attention. I am very used to the cold, but really wanted to end up in Georgia this cycle (warm, but it can get chilly outside = perfect) - that clearly did not work out .

I am very interested in community/global health and love being active in the community. I want a supportive environment. I went to a Northeast Ivy and honestly went home every other weekend to re-energize lol. Lifestyle is very important to me as is feeling connected to my surroundings and community. Smaller class sizes are appealing.

Dartmouth
Pros:
Prestige
Amazing Match results
Great clinical training
Easy to attain research opportunities
Less than 4 hours from home driving
Small class size, ample opportunities/connections

Cons:
Expensive
Severe lack of racial diversity
Ruralx100 (But opportunity to do away rotations in San Fran exist). I may feel isolated here?
Shouldn’t the Cost of Living be cheaper?!

U. Miami
Pros:
Patient population amazingly diverse and exactly aligns with where I see myself practicing after residency.
Research opportunities everywhere
Clinical sites are nearby and see interesting cases
Many opportunities to work with underserved populations/participate in clinical care
The gym was breathtaking.

Cons:
Felt like an ant on the campus
Miami is unbearable in March, imagine the summer…
On interview day, everything just seemed so busy and hustle&bustle-esk. Made me question whether faculty would notice if a student was struggling.
*Have not received financial aid yet

Rush
Pros:
The city reminded me of home, I have friends in Chicago
Clinical training is amazing
Patient population amazingly diverse and exactly aligns with where I see myself practicing after residency.
Many opportunities to work with underserved populations/participate in clinical care
Systems-based curriculum

Cons:
Completely flipped classroom(?). Idk how I will feel about this.
After financial aid, Rush is more expensive than Dartmouth. YIKES
Mandatory attendance policy

@Goro @gyngyn @HomeSkool @LizzyM @Catalystik

Thank you everyone!

Based off your listed values.....MIAMI!

1. Lifestyle? Miami
2. Warm weather? Not in Hanover or Chicago. It's in Miami.
3. Emergency medicine/Trauma? Ryder Trauma Center, New Helicopter EMS program In the Keys. Yes, both in Miami.
4. Global Health? Miami is the corridor to healthcare for much of Central and South America
5. Community involvement? DOCs. Several health fairs throughout SoFlo at UMiami.

But yeah, that heat can be oppressive. Guess you'll just have to go the beach everyday. C'est la vie.

EDIT: Now is the time to start asking for money. Alot is being put back into the pot right now. Reach out to Dean Weisman or Dean Symes directly. The general admissions email can take WEEKS. But Dean Weisman always seems to respond within 10 min during business hours.

 

[Dwan]

Dartmouth is lower ranked than many med schools but their match list is phenomenal. Name unfortunately does carry a lot of clout. Just something to keep in mind too.

People always say the ivy name means nothing in medicine and cite the rankings of Dartmouth/Brown, but if you look at the match lists of those 2 schools, they are clearly a tier above what their rank would imply. From Dartmouth's 2019 match list, only 3 people total even stayed in NH - the majority ended up at top programs in CA, MA, and NY. Regarding clinical training, it is true that the location is a ding to racial diversity, and I was explicitly told this as a weakness when interviewing there for IM residency. But it clearly doesn't stop you from getting into programs in bigger cities for residency.

Note the NIH research funding ranking of Dartmouth/Brown are lower than their usnews research rank would imply. However, their rankings are boosted by the residency PD reputation evaluations which seem more in line with how well they match.

 

[LizzyM]

Make a list of the things that you value. This is column one. Put Rush, Miami, Dartmouth at the top of three columns to the right of column 1. Now assess how closely each school aligns with each value. You can use +, ++, +++, ++++ if you like that kind of visual or color the cells from dark shades to light or from yellow to orange to red or however you'll best be able to visualize what is strongest about each school and which school is strongest overall.

Is mandatory attendance a positive, a negative or neutral? You point it out as a factor at one school but don't mention whether it would be good (motivating you to attend) or not good (you think that you'll do better if have the flexibility to cover the material independently).

Anyway, I do recommend making a table and assessing each school based on your own values.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

Dartmouth will easily meet your goals! Best option for ya if you can handle the rurality.

 

[ick19]

Thanks, that's my main fear. I won't know if I can handle it until I go, which is unfortunate.

Dartmouth will easily meet your goals! Best option for ya if you can handle the rurality.

 

[ick19]

You don't think U. Miami's match is up to par? Also avg STEP score at Geisel is 227 vs 232 at U. Miami - I dont know how important that info is.

People always say the ivy name means nothing in medicine and cite the rankings of Dartmouth/Brown, but if you look at the match lists of those 2 schools, they are clearly a tier above what their rank would imply. From Dartmouth's 2019 match list, only 3 people total even stayed in NH - the majority ended up at top programs in CA, MA, and NY. Regarding clinical training, it is true that the location is a ding to racial diversity, and I was explicitly told this as a weakness when interviewing there for IM residency. But it clearly doesn't stop you from getting into programs in bigger cities for residency.

Note the NIH research funding ranking of Dartmouth/Brown are lower than their usnews research rank would imply. However, their rankings are boosted by the residency PD reputation evaluations which seem more in line with how well they match.

 

[Arsartium]

People always say the ivy name means nothing in medicine and cite the rankings of Dartmouth/Brown, but if you look at the match lists of those 2 schools, they are clearly a tier above what their rank would imply. From Dartmouth's 2019 match list, only 3 people total even stayed in NH - the majority ended up at top programs in CA, MA, and NY. Regarding clinical training, it is true that the location is a ding to racial diversity, and I was explicitly told this as a weakness when interviewing there for IM residency. But it clearly doesn't stop you from getting into programs in bigger cities for residency.

Note the NIH research funding ranking of Dartmouth/Brown are lower than their usnews research rank would imply. However, their rankings are boosted by the residency PD reputation evaluations which seem more in line with how well they match.

It's true. Historically, Dartmouth and Brown seem to hit above their weight class when it comes to match. That said, a quick glance at UMiami's match list + doximity reveals that UMiami's latest match list is at least on par with Dartmouth (if not better). And if one has an interest in ophthalmology then UMiami is the obvious choice.

 

[yakarma11]

You don't think U. Miami's match is up to par? Also avg STEP score at Geisel is 227 vs 232 at U. Miami - I dont know how important that info is.

I dont think this makes that much of a difference, but on the interview day ppt, Miami showed a chart and their 2017 STEP average was up to 235

 

[puahate]

Also, I think it's mainly a cost/prestige problem. Dartmouth cost too much for what it's worth imo even if you think it inches out a bit in prestige. UMiami has many more pros in my opinion over Dartmouth.

 

[Dwan]

You don't think U. Miami's match is up to par? Also avg STEP score at Geisel is 227 vs 232 at U. Miami - I dont know how important that info is.

I think Dartmouth has the better match, although U-Miami won't keep you out of anywhere (has matches to great places, but a weaker average match). Having a low average step and a good match would be kind of re-assuring to me that it's not the step score carrying the weight of the list, but the reputation, and you aren't doomed if you don't do great. Regarding your particular fields of interest, UMiami always does particularly well in derm matches each year because it is a top 10 in that field (better matches than many top schools that are weak in derm). Dartmouth has a much stronger IM match yearly, but if ID is your interest within that, it's not a competitive fellowship where you'd need to go to a top program. Dartmouth also has the superior ob-gyn matches yearly if you consider quality over quantity (ob-gyn is not hard to get in, but the top places are highly competitive), and I don't know enough about EM to comment.

Also, I don't know if they've changed this since my time, but Dartmouth has P/F for their clinical clerkships which relieves a lot of stress, especially knowing it won't impact the match. At my school, to get an honors, you need to honor both clinicals and the shelf (top 10-15% in nation), and it was stressful to perform at honors clinically and get screwed by shelves. I don't know about UMiami, but this is typical of most low-mid tier schools - mine claims they do it because they can't get away with P/F or spamming half the class with honors like many of the top schools.

 

[scrapy]

If dartmouth has true p/f clerkships and has an amazing match list I'd say that that trumps everything else.

 

[Haagen-Dazs]

You don't think U. Miami's match is up to par? Also avg STEP score at Geisel is 227 vs 232 at U. Miami - I dont know how important that info is.

This year, Dartmouth avg step 1 was a whooping 241.

 

[ick19]

This year, Dartmouth avg step 1 was a whooping 241.

Whoaa didnt know that

 

[Haagen-Dazs]

Whoaa didnt know that

I think with their new curriculum which they’ve been trying out with current students, Dartmouth is on the rise I would say. It’s up to you to decide if you’re willing to stay in an isolated area.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

Whoaa didnt know that

The individual named after my favorite ice cream company may have some unique insight, but unfortunately that step score is not in line with what I have found! But again, mine is based on what is on the inter-webs...they may have more solid insight.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

I think with their new curriculum which they’ve been trying out with current students, Dartmouth is on the rise I would say. It’s up to you to decide if you’re willing to stay in an isolated area.

Also, they are just now implementing a whole new curriculum our matriculating year (2019-2020); they have yet to make any real changes up until this point. I know my insight here is solid since I spoke at length with the admissions director just a few days ago about this.

 

[scrapy]

The individual named after my favorite ice cream company may have some unique insight, but unfortunately that step score is not in line with what I have found! But again, mine is based on what is on the inter-webs...they may have more solid insight.

I don’t think that step data is the most recent.

 

[scrapy]

you are correct

this is the updated one

Hmm that looks like the same one

 

[puahate]

Hmm that looks like the same one

ooops

 

[Arsartium]

The individual named after my favorite ice cream company may have some unique insight, but unfortunately that step score is not in line with what I have found! But again, mine is based on what is on the inter-webs...they may have more solid insight.

USNWR shows the step scores averages from two years ago. Last year's step score average may be quite different. For instance, Mayo's step I average is listed at 237, but I know that last year's scores averaged in mid-240s.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

So where'd ya pull the lever for OP??

 

[ick19]

So where'd ya pull the lever for OP??

I'm going with Dartmouth Thanks everyone!