dating an attending

[*Akira*]

Hi. I have a problem that I could use some help with. I am student hoping to match into surgery at my home program this year and have been working with this one attending since early in my first year. I started off by shadowing him in the OR, assisting on his cases, then doing some case studies with him. We have worked closely together and spent a lot of time with each other. I really enjoy being with him. We have a great time together and always have great conversations and make each other laugh. I have always had a crush on him, but tried to ignore it since I knew it could never work. Over the years, it has turned into so much more than a crush and I can tell he has feelings for me too. I know that attendings are not supposed to date students/residents, so what should I do? I don't think I can ignore my feelings for much longer. Is there a way to date him without ruining our careers? Thanks for any advice.

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[nofear]

Hi. I have a problem that I could use some help with. I am student hoping to match into surgery at my home program this year and have been working with this one attending since early in my first year. I started off by shadowing him in the OR, assisting on his cases, then doing some case studies with him. We have worked closely together and spent a lot of time with each other. I really enjoy being with him. We have a great time together and always have great conversations and make each other laugh. I have always had a crush on him, but tried to ignore it since I knew it could never work. Over the years, it has turned into so much more than a crush and I can tell he has feelings for me too. I know that attendings are not supposed to date students/residents, so what should I do? I don't think I can ignore my feelings for much longer. Is there a way to date him without ruining our careers? Thanks for any advice.

hope you are good in bed because instead of surgery you are going to be doing primary care........

 

[dynx]

Is it that time of year again? The magical time of year when naive young girls get banged silly by thier attendings then left used on the side of the road....

 

[Smurfette]

I always hope threads like this are made up. Obviously hooking up with an attending in your field and residency program of choice is a match made for disaster. And imagine your fellow residents' opinions of you...the girl who is in the program because she is screwing the attending. You'd never get any respect from any of your peers or other attendings.

 

[Pox in a box]

I think this story is bogus. You'd have to be an idiot to pursue something like this and become the laughing stock of the hospital. Isn't there an ethical violation here as well?

 

[nofear]

I always hope threads like this are made up. Obviously hooking up with an attending in your field and residency program of choice is a match made for disaster. And imagine your fellow residents' opinions of you...the girl who is in the program because she is screwing the attending. You'd never get any respect from any of your peers or other attendings.

what if she is shared between attendings....will that help with regaining respect...

 

[toofache32]

Ummmm......Slut?

 

[EM2006]

If this is real I'm sure you think it is a big decision but the fact that you are recognizing it as a difficult situation should allow yourself to answer your own question.

 

[predentchick]

What this inspired by a little "Grey's Anatomy???"

 

[Febrifuge]

Yeah, it's that time of year again... but it's a question that gets asked honestly as well as in a bogus way, so even if this is a BS example, why not put one out there, right? To the OP: if you look at it dispassionately, it's actually not too hard to put it in a context and give you some direction. Basically, it's two questions.

1) If you hook up with this person you would be creating an ethical conflict for him, not to mention fueling gossip and generally adding something to the workplace that nobody wants to deal with in their own life (but everyone loves to talk about when it's somebody else's). Are your feelings for this person sufficiently strong that you would switch specialties, or switch hospitals, or take some other step to help remove (or at least lessen) that ethical conflict?

If your own career and goals, immediate and long-term, are more important (and they should be!), then there's a good reason not to go for it right there.

2) You say you "can tell he has feelings for (you) too." How sure are you about that? If you were to discuss the subject, would it make him uncomfortable? Do you think it would change his opinion of you as a potential intern in the same program if this new dimension were part of the equation? In other words, what would be his answer to question #1?

Sorry but if your goal is to match at this hospital then this is even more of a bad idea than it usually is.

Bonus questions include whether either of you is married; whether this person has ever dated a student or intern before; and just how much time you've been locked up in the hospital and/or lab, versus out there in the non-medical world meeting eligible people. Good luck to you. The bottom line is, these hookups can be a lot of fun -- for the attendings.

 

[71263]

First off, are you a guy or a girl?? Cuz if youre a guy, youd probably have alot less chance of success and alot bigger chance of career suicide

 

[*Akira*]

Ummmm......Slut?

Wow. How judgemental of you! I am considering dating a man I have known and had feelings for for 2.5 years and I'm a slut?

 

[*Akira*]

Is it that time of year again? The magical time of year when naive young girls get banged silly by thier attendings then left used on the side of the road....

I'm 32. Also, I mentioned that I have been working with him since my first year and this year I'll be applying for the match. That's 2.5 years. It's not like I'm doing my first rotation and got a silly crush on my attending.

 

[*Akira*]

Yeah, it's that time of year again... but it's a question that gets asked honestly as well as in a bogus way, so even if this is a BS example, why not put one out there, right? To the OP: if you look at it dispassionately, it's actually not too hard to put it in a context and give you some direction. Basically, it's two questions.

1) If you hook up with this person you would be creating an ethical conflict for him, not to mention fueling gossip and generally adding something to the workplace that nobody wants to deal with in their own life (but everyone loves to talk about when it's somebody else's). Are your feelings for this person sufficiently strong that you would switch specialties, or switch hospitals, or take some other step to help remove (or at least lessen) that ethical conflict?

If your own career and goals, immediate and long-term, are more important (and they should be!), then there's a good reason not to go for it right there.

2) You say you "can tell he has feelings for (you) too." How sure are you about that? If you were to discuss the subject, would it make him uncomfortable? Do you think it would change his opinion of you as a potential intern in the same program if this new dimension were part of the equation? In other words, what would be his answer to question #1?

Sorry but if your goal is to match at this hospital then this is even more of a bad idea than it usually is.

Bonus questions include whether either of you is married; whether this person has ever dated a student or intern before; and just how much time you've been locked up in the hospital and/or lab, versus out there in the non-medical world meeting eligible people. Good luck to you. The bottom line is, these hookups can be a lot of fun -- for the attendings.

Thank you for the serious and respectful answer.

Neither of us is married or dating anyone. He has never dated a student/intern/resident before. I have met (and dated) eligible people these past few years, but honestly, I end up comparing them to him. He really is everything I've always wanted in a man.

As for your questions about his feelings, you can just tell sometimes. I know lots of people flirt, but don't have serious feelings for each other, but it really seems like he does. We often end up talking for hours after work about things totally unrelated to work. I can see it in the way he looks at me and there have been a few occasions in which he hugged me and held on just a little too long, you know?

I really want to be a surgeon, so switching specialties might not be a solution (although I have been considering going into neurosurgery or ENT, both of which I enjoyed, and both of which I should be somewhat competitive to match in because I have really good board scores, grades, and research, and did well on my rotations- and the PD for neuro has been trying to convince me that neurosurgery is for me). If I went that route, I could possibly date him after my internship year without too much trouble. I really want to stay where I am since I have a sick parent that I would like to remain close to.

 

[MDgonnabe]

first thing's first: if you two are as close as you say you are, why not just ask him how he feels about you right now to confirm your suspicions? if he values you as much as it seems and would like to pursue it beyond friendship, he may well have some ideas for what you guys could do to work around a relationship. if he doesn't know his own program, no one would, right? it could work, even if he must find a job at another hospital so you could do your residency where you are. good luck, akira.

 

[wook]

Since the OP answered several times, I'm assuming this is a legitimate question.

Since he is in the surgery program you are interested in applying, I would say bad idea. If you were involved in a different program, it's still a bad idea. If you were doing surgery at another program,...maybe? If you both are really interested, wait until you are done with residency, and THEN go for it.

Wook

 

[toofache32]

He should know better even if you don't. Don't dip your pen in the company inkwell.

 

[Febrifuge]

Thank you for the serious and respectful answer.

You're welcome -- especially now that I know you're a non-trad too! We gots to stick together and stuff.

I concur with MDGonnabe, who suggests that you two just have a frank and open discussion about it. If your friendship is as strong as it seems, and especially if the attraction is mutual as it seems, then dollars to donuts he's been mulling these things over too. Go out to dinner someplace where nobody either of you know will be, and have a good long talk about it.

It's not impossible, but you both need to protect your careers, and that means a lot more deliberation and planning than a typical relationship needs. Possibly enough deliberation and planning to suck the enjoyment right out of it, possibly not. Good luck to you.

 

[njbmd]

Hi. I have a problem that I could use some help with. I am student hoping to match into surgery at my home program this year and have been working with this one attending since early in my first year. I started off by shadowing him in the OR, assisting on his cases, then doing some case studies with him. We have worked closely together and spent a lot of time with each other. I really enjoy being with him. We have a great time together and always have great conversations and make each other laugh. I have always had a crush on him, but tried to ignore it since I knew it could never work. Over the years, it has turned into so much more than a crush and I can tell he has feelings for me too. I know that attendings are not supposed to date students/residents, so what should I do? I don't think I can ignore my feelings for much longer. Is there a way to date him without ruining our careers? Thanks for any advice.

Hi there,
Consenting single adults can date anyone that they like. That being said, if this person is willing to put his career and ethics on the line to date you, that does not speak well of him or of you. If you two are so in love, match at another program in town or be ready to have a long distance relationship.

Relationships have a way of being wonderful and neat when they are secret and forbidden. When they come out into the open, they may not be so neat. Another thing to consider is how many times has this happend to him before? He might have a pattern here so you may become displaced by another "starry-eyed" medical student after you have joined the ranks of harried resident. There is nothing more irresistable than a woman who is smitten by you. What do you do when the relationship ends and you have five years of watching him go through other women?

If this is a match made in heaven, then you both can wait for you to finish residency or you can match in another program in another location. Your career is for a life-time and most relationships do not last that long. You have one shot at residency and blowing it for a man is not a good idea. If you decide to throw caution to the wind and date anyway, you can really hurt yourselves professionally. Surgical departments tend to be very conservative and believe me, gossip can really hurt you even if you are doing nothing improper. Can his career take a major hit? Can yours? If so, go for it.

njbmd 🙂

 

[GenSurg]

Personally, I could never date an attending. I've always been one who had to work really hard to get to where I am. I'm quite proud of my achievements.

I don't think I could be as proud if I knew that my colleagues felt that my good fortune had more to do with who I was sleeping with than how hard I work. Even if who I was dating had no bearing on what I achieved, it's already out there and people will think what they want to.

Maybe you don't care what other people think, but it just adds too much stress to the workplace and your interpersonal relationships with other students/residents will be affected.

http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=20049323

 

[texdrake]

I think this story is bogus. You'd have to be an idiot to pursue something like this and become the laughing stock of the hospital. Isn't there an ethical violation here as well?

Actaully I know a girl, in this exact situation. I don't doubt that many of the other students/residents have mixed thoughts about that. I agree it is a poor decision, but it isn't all that uncommon, and definitely not made up, seeing as I have seen it happen.

 

[Samoa]

On the other hand, if people even suspect that there's something going on, the damage is done and you might as well be open about it. Unless, of course, you've actually internalized your professional ethics, and the truth of your relationship matters more to you than the damage to your career because other people think you're behaving unethically when in fact, you're not. The only viable choice here is to tell him how you feel and find out if he feels the same, and then have an honest discussion of what to do about it.

If you're not completely certain he would welcome a discussion like that, then it's too big a risk.

And as mentioned several times already with very good reasons, find out if he has a history of dating students. If he does, it's still possible that he feels differently about you, but don't let yourself be fooled. Every woman wants to believe she is the one who will inspire some man to stop playing the field, but statistically speaking, it's much more likely that she's just the next target. I don't mean to be cynical, because I have seen men change their lives dramatically for a woman. But it's rare. It's not a guy thing, it's just human nature. So just beware the trap and don't fall into it.

Other than that, I really don't know what to tell you. Regardless of the outcome, you really need to explore the idea of going elsewhere for residency, because if you do talk to him about this, either you'll want to, or you'll have to.

 

[lvspro]

Yo
I've seen one of these turn out pretty bad. The resident ended up wishing she left her clam in the seaweed. I have yet to see or hear of a happy ending to these stories. Although my clinical experience is limited, the result of this situation seem quite typical. I would hate for you to be known as "oh yeah... that girl" among your colleagues. Seperate hospitals sounds like a, uh, sound choice.
Peace

 

[Smurfette]

Let me add that academic surgery is a relatively small world. If people (i.e. surgeons at other hospitals across the US) know you are dating an attending, it can affect your career whe you are looking for a residency, fellowship or staff position. Surgeons in academia know each other--if not personally, then by reputation--and these types of things eventually become known about others. I personally would not want others to doubt my abilities, and being known as your attending's "girlfriend" or "former girlfriend" is going to cause a huge amount of doubt about you to anyone who knows--regardless of your true talents. Obviously it's your choice to make, but unless you two get married and live happily ever after, dating him at this point of your career while trying to land a residency in his program is likely to end badly (whether it ends soon or in a couple years, it still wouldn't be pretty. What if he dumps you for a med student when you're a senior resident?...then you still have to work with him)--with your career taking a bigger hit than his since you have more to potentially gain by dating an attending. Just my opinion though.

 

[pseudoknot]

I've always been one who had to work really hard to get to where I am.

http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=20049323

I'm not sure why this struck me as so funny...

 

[Dire Straits]

i'm always amused by how insecure med students are about what others may or may not think of them and their reputation. if the OP truley likes the attending (and it may help her land a surgery residency), then go for it. 5 or so years down the line you'll be done with your residency and either working as an academic surgeon or in private practice. who cares what a bunch of egghead doctors thought about you when you were doing your residency or how they think you got to where you are. i swear for all the "confidence" front doctors put up they are some of the most insecure people i know behind the facade.

 

[jojo14]

i know you really like this guy, maybe even love him, but 1. you have a lot more to lose than him, i mean this is your career! he already has an established position and has nothing to lose! and 2. he hasn't said anything to you. if he really does have feelings for you, maybe he is respecting your situation and not pushing for an answer at this time in your life. sounds like he realizes the delicacy of the situation... you've worked with him for 2.5 years, hopefully you can put this on a back burner until after your intern year at least. no matter how well intentioned he is, this could majorly blow up in your face if anyone found out. and the academic community is small...you don't want to be known as that girl for the rest of your life!

 

[bigfrank]

Hi. I have a problem that I could use some help with. I am student hoping to match into surgery at my home program this year and have been working with this one attending since early in my first year. I started off by shadowing him in the OR, assisting on his cases, then doing some case studies with him. We have worked closely together and spent a lot of time with each other. I really enjoy being with him. We have a great time together and always have great conversations and make each other laugh. I have always had a crush on him, but tried to ignore it since I knew it could never work. Over the years, it has turned into so much more than a crush and I can tell he has feelings for me too. I know that attendings are not supposed to date students/residents, so what should I do? I don't think I can ignore my feelings for much longer. Is there a way to date him without ruining our careers? Thanks for any advice.

Wasn't this discussed laste year? Wasn't the final opinion something along the lines of: It's skanky, it won't benefit you, and, if it's true love, wait till you're a resident???

 

[bigfrank]

I think this story is bogus. You'd have to be an idiot to pursue something like this and become the laughing stock of the hospital. Isn't there an ethical violation here as well?

Me too. Maybe she is. Yes.

 

[nofear]

Me too. Maybe she is. Yes.

i think she should sleep with everyone on sdn.....
from the name i think Big frank should be first.......

 

[tx oms]

Hi. I have a problem that I could use some help with.

If you want to be in a man's world stop acting like a woman. Dating the attending is inappropriate. Get beyond it. Women want high powered careers and equality with men. They think all this happiness will come from a sucessful career. Then they realize that maybe what they really want is to be a woman, not a powerbroker.

 

[lnn2]

i'm always amused by how insecure med students are about what others may or may not think of them and their reputation. if the OP truley likes the attending (and it may help her land a surgery residency), then go for it.

Wow, amazingly good advice! the genius had spoken 🙄
Oh yeah, don't forget the knee pads

 

[toofache32]

Oh yeah, don't forget the knee pads

...and the bottle of Scope.

 

[Haiku]

I'm not going to say pro or con, but I'll give you two real examples.

1) I rotated with a private practice allergist. She started dating an attending cardiologist when she was an intern. They got engaged within a year and now have 4 beautiful children.

2) When I interviewed for med school, I met an ICU attending who was married to a surgery resident. However, I think they were married before she started.

So, it can work. Good luck to you.

 

[StudKnight]

akir...

Even though you think this attending has feelings for you, you could very well be wrong. He may be sexually attracted to you but may not want more than that. If you didn't know this already, this is very common among men. Are you sure he's not dating another woman and has a serious relationship?

No offense, but you may just be a play-thing for him...or a potential plaything. That's how guys think. We think in terms of "potential" in case of a rainy day. At least that's how I used to think before I got married.

The other thing to consider: Men generally pursue women if they are interested. If he has not made his feelings clear, either he doesn't want a relationship or he feels this is inappropriate...or he's a total wuss. You are infatuated right now and cannot assess the situation clearly. If this guy is interested in you romantically, at some point he will make it known to you. And as a surgeon, he must have enough confidence to ask a woman out on a date right? If he wants to, he will. Don't force it or it will hurt you.

Does he like you...yes. Does he want to sleep with you? Heck yes. In fact, this is probably all he wants.

I'm a numbers kind of guy: single guy + med student subordinate who wants you and who is cute = fellacio.

I'm telling you. That's how guys are. We are all statisticians.

 

[blue2000]

I think the other thing is the OP has to remember is that in these situations, especially in a male dominated field like surgery, she's going to have to live with the labels that people put on her (rightly or wrongly). Most of the times, the labels for women who date men above them are not the kind of labels most women want to carry around.

Is it possible that this relationship could work? sure, I know of a situation in which it did. Is it more likely that it won't? Definitely. The OP just needs to decide whether the potential negative outcomes, which IMO are pretty large, are worth the small chance that it could work.

And I agree with everyone who said that dating an attending in the program in which you are trying to match is a disaster of an idea. Go elsewhere, and work out the relationship on your own time.

 

[bigfrank]

In the famous words of a character from the movie Hannibal.......IT SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME..............