David Newman allegations

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This Brings up an interesting conundrum--are his writings on EM any less substantial or not true, just b/c he turns out to be a scum-bag felon? Is NNT less true, or some of his points on a dogma-induced medical system less valid? Same could be said for some great artists--Wagner, Carvaggio, Roman Polanski.

I love Woody Allen's movies--they're brilliant, but what he did is reprehensible and he should be in jail. That still doesn't make Manhattan or Midnight in Paris less brilliant movies.

In the end (and I'm pre-judging, but come on, his best defense is he forgot to wash hands after masterbating during shift, then touched a shoulder pain patient's face and got seamen in her eye, this after a giving a non-documented second dose of morphine) it looks like Newman had some psychopathic, narcissistic tendencies. I'm sure he thought he'd get away with it, b/c he often was the smartest guy in the room.

But that doesn't make his previous observations and writings less true than they were when written. I'd like to think they have their own space and truth, outside if this sad, grotesque person we see accused today.

With that said, can we get someone else (normal) to pick up the torch and fight for EM--Hoffman and Henry are getting too old.

I for one find it harder to evaluate his work after this, because it caused him to take down his Web site and it makes me less likely to buy his book. Any good accessible archives of his work at this point, or would I need to go back and read his original papers?

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another thing to consider beyond the trauma for his patients - He had a lot of pre-meds/post-docs working on his research who he had been writing LORs for. Imagine hearing that your mentor did all of this, realizing any papers you wrote with him would be permanently associated with his name and actions, and now you have to scramble to find a new letter writer for apps. yikes.
 
Despite the crap he decided to do while working as a physician he has made significant contributions to our field.
Hippocrates Shadow is a good book that makes a lot of solid points, even if the author turns out to be a sexual predator.
SMARTEM is one of the more solid approaches to EBM in all of medicine.
David may not be the guy we thought he was, but he did some good work.
If we erase all evidence of his impact in our field we lose a lot of good work that we can all use to help our patients.
 
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As an outsider MS1 with little to no knowledge-- just how popular is David Newman in the field of EM? The way that some people are talking about him makes him seem almost like some demi-god Michael Jordan-esque celebrity of emergency medicine. If that's really the case, I'm just shocked at that fall from grace. Guy seemed to be at the pinnacle of his field. And now....this.
 
Wow. I have buddies in EM, considered it myself for a bit, so I've been following this at a distance. I initially thought there was no way someone would be so crazy to even think to attempt that in a busy academic ED. I read the first reports and thought that if he'd done it he would've used a small etomidate dose instead of the reported morphine as that would burn as reported by the victim, I'm assuming etomidate would be easier to give and account for in the era of strictly controlled narcs, and that Newman would know that opioids are not amnestic.....but apparently that thinking was way off base. I'm literally fairly shocked this is looking true. Just proves we never truly know anything about the true self of our acquaintances.
 
As an outsider MS1 with little to no knowledge-- just how popular is David Newman in the field of EM? The way that some people are talking about him makes him seem almost like some demi-god Michael Jordan-esque celebrity of emergency medicine. If that's really the case, I'm just shocked at that fall from grace. Guy seemed to be at the pinnacle of his field. And now....this.

Well, he wrote one of the best books on doctor/patient relationships, overtesting, and overtreating in Hippocrates Shadow. That book is a phenomenal read for both doctors and patients. And he was a pretty big name on the EM lecture circuit, in the lay press, and had a great podcast that seriously has some of the best literature based discussions challenging conventional teaching on common conditions. He was a pretty big deal academically.
 
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I refused to just automatically accept his guilt, because there should be a presumption of innocence. So I held out until damning proof came out. His quote is damning, so I gave the guilty verdict.

None of this proves the people who jumped the gun to be right... at least not their methodology.

None of us--at least not I or anyone else I saw--were saying "he is innocent" or "he is being framed"--only that we would like to wait for more information before passing judgment. This is a reasonably cautious approach, and every person deserves that level of caution for such an egregious charge.

Anyways now maybe he and Jared can share a cell.


Nice walk back there buddy. The lot of you declared the accuser a crazy, scheming, vindictive liar for absolutely no reason at all except she dared say this happened to her. In your quest to create reasonable doubt for your esteemed colleague you armchair diagnosed her with axis II disorders. She wasn't given the courtesy of reasonable doubt that she maybe, probably,perhaps she isn't crazy.
 
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Nice walk back there buddy. The lot of you declared the accuser a crazy, scheming, vindictive liar for absolutely no reason at all except she dared say this happened to her. In your quest to create reasonable doubt for your esteemed colleague you armchair diagnosed her with axis II disorders. She wasn't given the courtesy of reasonable doubt that she maybe, probably,perhaps she isn't crazy.

Why are you perseverating about reasonable doubt? The accuser is not the defendant. The defendant deserves reasonable doubt in all cases. The story was incredibly outlandish and the explanation provided was even more so. Who was to guess that a physician would masturbate in the lounge on shift, push an unindicated medication and put bodily fluids on a patient? I've seen many ridiculous accusations by disgruntled patients; if this wasn't true then it would have been just another one added to the list. Also, false accusations of sexual abuse have been prominently profiled in the media in the past several years with absolutely no consequences for the accuser
 
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Nice walk back there buddy. The lot of you declared the accuser a crazy, scheming, vindictive liar for absolutely no reason at all except she dared say this happened to her. In your quest to create reasonable doubt for your esteemed colleague you armchair diagnosed her with axis II disorders. She wasn't given the courtesy of reasonable doubt that she maybe, probably,perhaps she isn't crazy.

Ok, show me where I said any of that. Quote my posts.

I never said anything against the accuser(s). I only said that Dr Newman is innocent until proven guilty.

Unless you can find quotes from me saying what you claimed I said, kindly sit down and shut up.
 
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I demand an apology from everyone here
 
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In light of the recent DNA evidence, it seems like an open and shut case. Damn shame. He thought he was too smart to get caught. God knows how long he's been getting away with this kind of behavior.
 
Man... I didn't jump into this thread b/c everything was Just he said, she said.

I thought the DNA will either prove him right or wrong.

DNA is damning. Now he admits he did the deed in the bathroom and transferred b/c he didn't wash his hands.

Come ON. He could do better than this. We all know ER docs barely touch the patients. And if I have to touch them around their face, I am gloving up. What is he did the back door on her and found DNA there. Did he do a rectal and not glove up? geezzzz

Come ON. He gave her an extra dose of meds that wasn't ordered? I don't think I have pushed drugs on pts for 15 yrs. I wouldn't even know how to do it with the needleless systems now adays.

But if OJ can get away with his DNA all over the crime scene. Dripping DNA in his Car. Dripping DNA in his driveway and still be found innocent, then I guess this Dude has a chance.

I don't even care if people think he was a nice guy or weird. You will find in life that alot of Nice appearing people are just fronts to their oddities.

I mean, we all have skeleton's in the closet and ashamed of. But Geeezzzzz, just go hire a hooker/go to Vegas. Dress them up as patients and do whatever you want.

These were my arguments before being character assasinated by some people here.

The mere fact of having a physician physically administer a medication himself is odd.
 
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The mere fact of having a physician physically administer a medication himself is odd.

Like propofol?

I have to be the one to administer sedation meds at my hospital. In the presence of nursing, respiratory, and my scribe.

It's not that odd. Not documenting it and administering extra is.
 
Like propofol?

I have to be the one to administer sedation meds at my hospital. In the presence of nursing, respiratory, and my scribe.

It's not that odd. Not documenting it and administering extra is.

Yeah I was about to say excluding procedural sedation but that is usually done in tandem with other health care providers.
 
I'm just really disappointed and embarrassed for the specialty knowing patients will read about this case as it makes the media circuit.

It won't change a thing. ER docs provide a great service.

Don't let this make you think otherwise.
 
Ok, show me where I said any of that. Quote my posts.

I never said anything against the accuser(s). I only said that Dr Newman is innocent until proven guilty.

Unless you can find quotes from me saying what you claimed I said, kindly sit down and shut up.

Yeah your MEDIA CONSPIRACY!!! to "take down great men" was totally not hysterical.
 
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Yeah your MEDIA CONSPIRACY!!! to "take down great men" was totally not hysterical.

You're the one who is acting hysterical right now.

So basically you weren't able to quote a single post of mine where I said anything about the accuser(s), so now you've moved the goalpost.

What I said about the media still stands true, if you were level headed enough to understand it. I never claimed there was any conspiracy. Rather, I was critical of the media in their coverage of doctors in that they irresponsibly publish the flashy news before the evidence comes in. This was still the case with regard to David Newman. With very little facts, they immediately published the allegations, which are just that before the proof comes in: allegations. It was wholly possible at the time of the initial report that the DNA would have exonerated Newman, but the initial articles already would have smeared his name.

All I would like is more responsible reporting. I know of another doctor who was also accused of sexual assault like this, but who went to trial and was found innocent. Yet, the media had done him so dirty that his career never recovered. And I do think an element of it is that the media enjoys the splashy headlines of a hot shot doctor going down. That's not a conspiracy. It's what sells newspapers, or what gets clicks in our day and age.

You feel so victorious now that the evidence came against Newman. But I never said the evidence would never come against him. Rather, I said "let's wait for the evidence before condemning him." That's what our justice system is meant to do, not just hang people right away.

It does not seem that you are intelligent enough to compute any of this.
 
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You're the one who is acting hysterical right now.

So basically you weren't able to quote a single post of mine where I said anything about the accuser(s), so now you've moved the goalpost.

What I said about the media still stands true, if you were level headed enough to understand it. I never claimed there was any conspiracy. Rather, I was critical of the media in their coverage of doctors in that they irresponsibly publish the flashy news before the evidence comes in. This was still the case with regard to David Newman. With very little facts, they immediately published the allegations, which are just that before the proof comes in: allegations. It was wholly possible at the time of the initial report that the DNA would have exonerated Newman, but the initial articles already would have smeared his name.

All I would like is more responsible reporting. I know of another doctor who was also accused of sexual assault like this, but who went to trial and was found innocent. Yet, the media had done him so dirty that his career never recovered. And I do think an element of it is that the media enjoys the splashy headlines of a hot shot doctor going down. That's not a conspiracy. It's what sells newspapers, or what gets clicks in our day and age.

You feel so victorious now that the evidence came against Newman. But I never said the evidence would never come against him. Rather, I said "let's wait for the evidence before condemning him." That's what our justice system is meant to do, not just hang people right away.

It does not seem that you are intelligent enough to compute any of this.

The reports liberally used "allegedly", "said", and "claimed" as responsible journalism should. There was no gleeful smear as you imply here. In fact the New York Times essentially published what a amounted to good character witness letter for the guy. While we are on reading comprehension, yes I replied to you but "You lot" clearly referred to the general closing of ranks here when this accusation came out. For your one experience of false accusation of sexual assault, we have the Toronto guy, Johns Hopkins GYN dude, San Diego free clinic dude, random Urology dude on the subway etc.

I hoped for a different outcome, but I object to the excuses (b**tches be crazy, greedy, media persecution) deployed whenever a prominent man (Cosby, Ghomeshi) is accused like this. We have a fair number of creeps as the rest of the general population. Go figure.
 
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The reports liberally used "allegedly", "said", and "claimed" as responsible journalism should. There was no gleeful smear as you imply here. In fact the New York Times essentially published what a amounted to good character witness letter for the guy. While we are on reading comprehension, yes I replied to you but "You lot" clearly referred to the general closing of ranks here when this accusation came out. For your one experience of false accusation of sexual assault, we have the Toronto guy, Johns Hopkins GYN dude, San Diego free clinic dude, random Urology dude on the subway etc.

I hoped for a different outcome, but I object to the excuses (b**tches be crazy, greedy, media persecution) deployed whenever a prominent man (Cosby, Ghomeshi) is accused like this. We have a fair number of creeps as the rest of the general population. Go figure.

I heard you allegedly rape children.

Headline: EpiStatus Allegedly Rapes Children

Does the word "allegedly" make it all good?

FYI, I take sexual assault very seriously (aside from the above, used to illustrate a point). I even think there is a problem on the other side, an even bigger problem: universities for example not investigating sexual assault and letting privelaged men get away with it. But, at the same time, I realize that being accused of such a thing wrongfully is also a very grave offense and can also ruin a life or family. So all I asked for was caution.
 
A fair amount of medical knowledge we still use came from Nazi and Japanese war-crimes conducted under the guise of science. As with those, we'll take what Newman gave us of value and sweep him into the trash bin of history.

Nice walk back there buddy. The lot of you declared the accuser a crazy, scheming, vindictive liar for absolutely no reason at all except she dared say this happened to her. In your quest to create reasonable doubt for your esteemed colleague you armchair diagnosed her with axis II disorders. She wasn't given the courtesy of reasonable doubt that she maybe, probably,perhaps she isn't crazy.

I'm not the justice system, and I would never withhold the full support of our legal system from a potential victim. But if we're going to get on the internet and speculate about the reality of the situation based on low-grade media, I found it more likely that a mentally ill patient accused a physician of some ridiculous act. I think most on this forum falls into that category. And if next week some patient accuses Amal Mattu of hopping on their back and shouting "giddyup!" while slapping their ass with his stethoscope, I will again find it more likely that a mentally ill patient accused a physician of some ridiculous act. And if that too proved to be true, I would again be surprised and disappointed. A failure to understand why is simply a display of gross ignorance regarding the emergency department and/or probabilities. Nevermind that false accusations have essentially no repercussions in our society where as the mere accusation of sexual misconduct can ruin a life.
 
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The sheer amount of....er....male fluid that he produced such that it remained on his hands all the way from the bathroom to the patient's shoulder and face is impressive! I think we should call Guiness.
 
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****, man. Some people are sick. It takes some balls to pull your dick out in the ER...

Stay away from porn.
 
Jacking off in call rooms and in patient care areas should be added to the list of joint commission violations.


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I never said anything against the accuser(s). I only said that Dr Newman is innocent until proven guilty.

To be fair, the DNA evidence seems to point to likelihood of guilt but he has not yet been proven to have committed sexual assault.

Ironically, with his forgot-to-wash-hands reason (which it says he gave on Jan.12), it now seems that he is the one with the outlandlish tale and the patient is the more believable one. His explanation is certainly "out there" but like everything else in this disturbing ordeal, the entire picture is not clear without all the details and only time will remedy that.

It won't change a thing. ER docs provide a great service.

This case, like many others, would not change the fact ED docs do provide a great service but it can negatively impact some patients perceptions (if doc is guilty) the same way it may impact some physicians perceptions of other patients if a patient in a case lied about (insert allegations here) against a fellow doctor.
 
Nice walk back there buddy. The lot of you declared the accuser a crazy, scheming, vindictive liar for absolutely no reason at all except she dared say this happened to her. In your quest to create reasonable doubt for your esteemed colleague you armchair diagnosed her with axis II disorders. She wasn't given the courtesy of reasonable doubt that she maybe, probably,perhaps she isn't crazy.


Man, if you ever worked in the ED, half of the pts has a Psych disorder. probable 10% could do something crazy like false accusations.

How many patients has accused you of not even taking a history or doing an exam? I just recently had this alleged of me eventhough I spent long discussions with the pt b/c I remember how needy she was. This on top of a scribe standing next to me.

I would say the majority of these accusations would be false.
 
A fair amount of medical knowledge we still use came from Nazi and Japanese war-crimes conducted under the guise of science. As with those, we'll take what Newman gave us of value and sweep him into the trash bin of history.

I was reminded of the same thing in regards to his contributions to EM.
 
Again.

Something I've seen happen before, not related to this case.

Substance abuse: A not uncommon way people with otherwise good judgement have done awful, irrational & seemingly out of character actions and inexplicably thrown perfect lives away. Sad. True. Happens all the time in all walks of life.

Just saying. It happens. It's happened. I'm not saying it happened again
 
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Substance abuse. Yep. A lot of it.

But this dude, it's like he was possessed, freekin' X-Files. Somebody call Scully. I mean, he's an experienced ED physician, not some street bum accosting passerbys in an alley...
 
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Substance abuse. Yep. A lot of it.

But this dude, it's like he was possessed, freekin' X-Files. Somebody call Scully. I mean, he's an experienced ED physician, not some street bum accosting passerbys in an alley...
Lots of doctor have substance abuse issues. They just work harder to hide it due to stigma and fear of job/licensure loss.
 
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I’m an OK surgeon now but almost never got a chance, since I nearly got fired as a resident.

22 y.o. AA male GSW x 3 to the back. CXR with maybe some haze in the LLL. Lines placed. O2 mask on, tachycardic but who wouldn’t be? I’m zoned in on a couple of sketchy B.P.’s, hemodynamic instability in the setting of penetrating injury to the back being an absolute indication for laparotomy. The bullets couldn’t have hit the aorta or an iliacs, if so the guy would be dead by now, so I’m thinking low pressure retroperitoneal injury? Renal vein? Spleen? Something in zone III? a mesenteric vessel? ****. New, young ER attending in a white button down oxford shirt and a tie wants to put in a left chest tube. Massive hemothorax ain’t the problem, the volume of blood that you would need to give you hypovolemic shock parked in the thorax won’t give you that x-ray but whatever, my PGY2 he needs the practice, so I tell him to prep.

It’s more than the usual degree of chaos, even for 1am at Luke’s. The guy had been shot by the cops so blue waves keep crashing into the trauma bay door requiring regular dispersement. Not that the cops give the impression of actually giving a ****, it’s December of 2004, Ferguson is a decade away and this was in the days when cops still shot young black guys in Harlem because it was part of their job description. Still they were curious to see just what type of paperwork was going to have to be filled out. Patient himself seemed to be opting for the form that didn’t have a time of death on it. The lad is definitely showing bit more spunk than you would expect from someone en-route to his reward via exsanguination but sometimes they can fool you. The other guests to the party were some nurses, my team of exhausted pissed-off surgical residents wishing they were anywhere except responding to a trauma call with me as the chief, and the ER team, maybe six of them all delighted for a distraction from asthma attacks, UTI’s and drug seekers, hoping to see something like on TV and lead by that tense looking attending in the white button down oxford and tie, looking like a guy from NASA in the 60s.

Oxford shirt dude is now standing at the foot of the bed, Pete’s on patient’s left giving some lidocaine at the 5th intercostal space and posterior axillary line getting ready to put the chest tube in and I’m standing behind Pete trying to figure out what happens next. I’m the senior surgeon in the room, closest surgical attending is maybe half and hour away and if we’ve got to do an emergent exploratory laparotomy it’s my problem and frankly I’d rather pass. It would be nice to think my conservative stance was on account of higher principles, a wish to spare homeboy a big midline incision, a lifetime of adhesions and a few days in house getting over his ileus but in reality I just wanted to get back to sleep. My two year old is not all that into sleeping and my wife nine months pregnant is not all that into not being grouchy. I’d been working all day and had to be in the OR all the next day. Yup, this was when things sucked but not in the “crap I’ll be home tonight at 5:30 rather than 4:30 and have to cut short my time at the gym” sucked, or in the “it’s so difficult to decide, should we ditch the kids and go to Santiago or London next month honey?” sucked, but in the “when will this **** end and how can I get another twenty minutes of sleep” way. Perhaps you can relate? Anyways, an unnecessary ex-lap might not be doing shot-guy any favors but it would ruin my night for sure. So when oxford-shirt-with-tie ER attending calls for a couple mg of morphine to be given IV to spare the patient a bit of discomfort from the chest tube insertion I say I’d rather skip it. Morphine can cause a transient drop in blood pressure and another couple low BP’s on the monitor and I’m obliged to open this guy up (and stay awake for another couple of hours) so I’d rather not have it on board confounding the situation.

Most ER guys differ to the surgeons, after all, they have only the haziest idea of what happens once the patient leaves the trauma bay, understand their limitations and sensibly stay out of the way. But this guy is different; he has his own ideas, probably went to a lecture recently on “pain being the sixth vital sign” or some such bull**** and he says “I’m going to give morphine.” This gets my attention, I explain, quickly, why this is bad idea. 3 minutes of pain from the chest tube insertion vs dropping the blood pressure and forcing my hand to do an exploratory laparotomy based on information confounded by narcotic is an easy decision. “Better not” I say. Unbelievably, he is not dissuaded, his team is looking on and he takes a stand. He tells me he’s the attending physician, he is board certified, he is in charge of this patient while the patient is in the ER and he is going to give the morphine.

It is at this point that certain things are alleged. The surgical team is on record that in calm and respectful tones their chief guided the care of the patient with a graceful firm and steady hand to it’s successful conclusion. Bless them. Meanwhile, the ER team over the ensuing days spilled a fair amount of ink all alleging this and alleging that. Something to the effect that allegedly the senior surgeon at the trauma told the attending emergency medicine physician in the white short sleeved oxford that each was the same amount of time out of medical school with the only difference between the two being that one had done a short residency and one had not. That the ER attending's lack of judgment was a threat to this patient, and that therefore the ER attending should get **** out of this trauma bay and find someone with an earache to treat before he hurt somebody. It is agreed upon by all parties that at about this point the ER attending dismissed the senior surgical resident from the case ordering the surgical resident to leave the area at which point it has been alleged that the senior surgical resident inquired as to weather said ER attending possessed the skill set to open the abdomen or chest and control an exsanguinating injury? Furthermore it has been alleged that the senior surgeon then pointed out that since dismissing the only person currently in the hospital with the ability to treat this potentially life threatening injury would be equivalent to murder, perhaps the ER attending should just go borrow one of the cops guns and shoot the patient himself and get it over with. It has also been alleged that the when the attending in the short sleeved white shirt, now bright red in the face, insisted that he was the physician in charge of the care of the patients in his emergency room and physically attempted to give the morphine via the IV, the senior surgeon in the room, who was six inches taller and 50 pounds heavier than him and had played a whole lot of college rugby positioned his body in such a manner to make such actions impossible and, it has been alleged, in doing so threw a body block that nearly knocked the ER attending over.

The chest tube returned nothing. The BP’s stabilized and later we learned that the gun shot wounds that we thought we were seeing were really fragments from the frangilble bullets that NYC cops use. These bullets are designed to break apart when they miss their target so as to cause minimal damage when they ricochet off things. The guy went home/to jail the next day.

With that trauma over the next one began. Young white-short-sleeved-oxford guy screamed for blood. He demanded dismissal of the surgical resident, he demanded that the medical board launch an investigation, he demanded formal sanctions, he demanded the senior surgical resident be banned from the ER. He got a lot of snickering from the Department of Surgery and a dripping letter of apology.

So why bring this up?

David Newman was the guy I had to push out of the way. He was a wanker then, he's a wanker now.
 
I’m an OK surgeon now but almost never got a chance, since I nearly got fired as a resident.

22 y.o. AA male GSW x 3 to the back. CXR with maybe some haze in the LLL. Lines placed. O2 mask on, tachycardic but who wouldn’t be? I’m zoned in on a couple of sketchy B.P.’s, hemodynamic instability in the setting of penetrating injury to the back being an absolute indication for laparotomy. The bullets couldn’t have hit the aorta or an iliacs, if so the guy would be dead by now, so I’m thinking low pressure retroperitoneal injury? Renal vein? Spleen? Something in zone III? a mesenteric vessel? ****. New, young ER attending in a white button down oxford shirt and a tie wants to put in a left chest tube. Massive hemothorax ain’t the problem, the volume of blood that you would need to give you hypovolemic shock parked in the thorax won’t give you that x-ray but whatever, my PGY2 he needs the practice, so I tell him to prep.

It’s more than the usual degree of chaos, even for 1am at Luke’s. The guy had been shot by the cops so blue waves keep crashing into the trauma bay door requiring regular dispersement. Not that the cops give the impression of actually giving a ****, it’s December of 2004, Ferguson is a decade away and this was in the days when cops still shot young black guys in Harlem because it was part of their job description. Still they were curious to see just what type of paperwork was going to have to be filled out. Patient himself seemed to be opting for the form that didn’t have a time of death on it. The lad is definitely showing bit more spunk than you would expect from someone en-route to his reward via exsanguination but sometimes they can fool you. The other guests to the party were some nurses, my team of exhausted pissed-off surgical residents wishing they were anywhere except responding to a trauma call with me as the chief, and the ER team, maybe six of them all delighted for a distraction from asthma attacks, UTI’s and drug seekers, hoping to see something like on TV and lead by that tense looking attending in the white button down oxford and tie, looking like a guy from NASA in the 60s.

Oxford shirt dude is now standing at the foot of the bed, Pete’s on patient’s left giving some lidocaine at the 5th intercostal space and posterior axillary line getting ready to put the chest tube in and I’m standing behind Pete trying to figure out what happens next. I’m the senior surgeon in the room, closest surgical attending is maybe half and hour away and if we’ve got to do an emergent exploratory laparotomy it’s my problem and frankly I’d rather pass. It would be nice to think my conservative stance was on account of higher principles, a wish to spare homeboy a big midline incision, a lifetime of adhesions and a few days in house getting over his ileus but in reality I just wanted to get back to sleep. My two year old is not all that into sleeping and my wife nine months pregnant is not all that into not being grouchy. I’d been working all day and had to be in the OR all the next day. Yup, this was when things sucked but not in the “crap I’ll be home tonight at 5:30 rather than 4:30 and have to cut short my time at the gym” sucked, or in the “it’s so difficult to decide, should we ditch the kids and go to Santiago or London next month honey?” sucked, but in the “when will this **** end and how can I get another twenty minutes of sleep” way. Perhaps you can relate? Anyways, an unnecessary ex-lap might not be doing shot-guy any favors but it would ruin my night for sure. So when oxford-shirt-with-tie ER attending calls for a couple mg of morphine to be given IV to spare the patient a bit of discomfort from the chest tube insertion I say I’d rather skip it. Morphine can cause a transient drop in blood pressure and another couple low BP’s on the monitor and I’m obliged to open this guy up (and stay awake for another couple of hours) so I’d rather not have it on board confounding the situation.

Most ER guys differ to the surgeons, after all, they have only the haziest idea of what happens once the patient leaves the trauma bay, understand their limitations and sensibly stay out of the way. But this guy is different; he has his own ideas, probably went to a lecture recently on “pain being the sixth vital sign” or some such bull**** and he says “I’m going to give morphine.” This gets my attention, I explain, quickly, why this is bad idea. 3 minutes of pain from the chest tube insertion vs dropping the blood pressure and forcing my hand to do an exploratory laparotomy based on information confounded by narcotic is an easy decision. “Better not” I say. Unbelievably, he is not dissuaded, his team is looking on and he takes a stand. He tells me he’s the attending physician, he is board certified, he is in charge of this patient while the patient is in the ER and he is going to give the morphine.

It is at this point that certain things are alleged. The surgical team is on record that in calm and respectful tones their chief guided the care of the patient with a graceful firm and steady hand to it’s successful conclusion. Bless them. Meanwhile, the ER team over the ensuing days spilled a fair amount of ink all alleging this and alleging that. Something to the effect that allegedly the senior surgeon at the trauma told the attending emergency medicine physician in the white short sleeved oxford that each was the same amount of time out of medical school with the only difference between the two being that one had done a short residency and one had not. That the ER attending's lack of judgment was a threat to this patient, and that therefore the ER attending should get **** out of this trauma bay and find someone with an earache to treat before he hurt somebody. It is agreed upon by all parties that at about this point the ER attending dismissed the senior surgical resident from the case ordering the surgical resident to leave the area at which point it has been alleged that the senior surgical resident inquired as to weather said ER attending possessed the skill set to open the abdomen or chest and control an exsanguinating injury? Furthermore it has been alleged that the senior surgeon then pointed out that since dismissing the only person currently in the hospital with the ability to treat this potentially life threatening injury would be equivalent to murder, perhaps the ER attending should just go borrow one of the cops guns and shoot the patient himself and get it over with. It has also been alleged that the when the attending in the short sleeved white shirt, now bright red in the face, insisted that he was the physician in charge of the care of the patients in his emergency room and physically attempted to give the morphine via the IV, the senior surgeon in the room, who was six inches taller and 50 pounds heavier than him and had played a whole lot of college rugby positioned his body in such a manner to make such actions impossible and, it has been alleged, in doing so threw a body block that nearly knocked the ER attending over.

The chest tube returned nothing. The BP’s stabilized and later we learned that the gun shot wounds that we thought we were seeing were really fragments from the frangilble bullets that NYC cops use. These bullets are designed to break apart when they miss their target so as to cause minimal damage when they ricochet off things. The guy went home/to jail the next day.

With that trauma over the next one began. Young white-short-sleeved-oxford guy screamed for blood. He demanded dismissal of the surgical resident, he demanded that the medical board launch an investigation, he demanded formal sanctions, he demanded the senior surgical resident be banned from the ER. He got a lot of snickering from the Department of Surgery and a dripping letter of apology.

So why bring this up?

David Newman was the guy I had to push out of the way. He was a wanker then, he's a wanker now.

Everyone knows (or should know) that Morphine only causes transient hypotension. If your patient dramatically dropped their pressure and stayed hypotensive, it wasn't because of the morphine. Also, he was right - the EM attending IS the one in charge of a trauma until the Surgical attending is physically present. But this little episode honestly sounds more like the usual sparring of egos than a predictor that one of the parties would end up being a sex offender. After all, it could have been you.
 
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Everyone knows (or should know) that Morphine only causes transient hypotension. If your patient dramatically dropped their pressure and stayed hypotensive, it wasn't because of the morphine. Also, he was right - the EM attending IS the one in charge of a trauma until the Surgical attending is physically present. But this little episode honestly sounds more like the usual sparring of egos than a predictor that one of the parties would end up being a sex offender. After all, it could have been you.


Ahhh, grasshopper.

Thank you for thoughts, they tender shoot of new grass, in time rain and sun will make you strong bamboo, but meantime, listen careful little insect.

First though. Newman filthy masturbator on patient, he shame self, he shame EM specialty, he shame all doctor everywhere! Right thing for you Newman is put sword in gut and twist, die like dog on floor but save family from 10 generation of dishonor.

But for story from night long ago, I give you hairy barbarian with the funny eyes.



Thank you Mr. Miagi.

Kid, this is how it works, I know this is an EM forum, and this might count as a thread hijack to some degree but I still think there is at least a tangential relationship between David’s crimes and the way he behaved in the ER all those years ago.

With regard to that case and trauma in general, it’s all algorithms. You know the algorithm and you follow the algorithm. You got a guy with holes in him, you count the holes, you could care less who made them or what made them or if they are entrance or exit wounds. At that moment in the story, and in most penetrating trauma, the only real decision is go to the OR or not. Clock is ticking. If a vessel is rent then blood is bleeding. If you sit there and look at 80/40 come up twice on the screen and didn’t make your move then maybe you’re going to be standing in front of an audience next week hearing the chief of surgery ask the dreaded question is his soft southern accent:

“Dr X did that patient sleep with your wife?”

you will reply “No, sir”

and he will say “Then why did you kill him?

So you gonna stand there? You gonna look at that monitor and say gee, that 80/40 might be the opiate, but it also might be his splenic vein, I’ll just wait for another reading, then another one, then you say go, and then he arrests in the elevator.

And yes, it can only be the surgeon present who can say go, because it’s he or she who will, at that moment, accept the full responsibility of all that comes next. It’s sort of a big deal to open a person up, try it sometime and you’ll see. As such it is a responsibility that can never be pushed onto a person but which must be assumed by the one who will bear all of its attendant burdens. So yes, I know that this isn’t going to go over very well on an EM internet forum, sorry to have to articulate this thing that is usually left unspoken, but you should know early on that when there is an actual emergency the presence of EM staff at a trauma is about as helpful as a scale when you are trying to measure the length of a board. After a while all EM staff realize this, they are happy for it, and things work fine.

Unfortunately, at that point in his career Newman hadn’t gotten the memo. In those days he probably was watching Goose do his thing and thought he was ready to do a crany at the bedside. He was an Emergency doctor and this was a real genuine emergency! Every other ER guy I’ve ever known, even the young ones, would have said “sure, whatever” that night in that setting, but not David. He was different. He wanted power, the same way he wanted power as he sought to change the conversation in medicine through his writing and lectures, the same way he wanted power as he stood over that poor helpless women whom he had drugged as he pulled out his dick and prepared to humiliate her.
 
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Ahhh, grasshopper.

Thank you for thoughts, they tender shoot of new grass, in time rain and sun will make you strong bamboo, but meantime, listen careful little insect.

First though. Newman filthy masturbator on patient, he shame self, he shame EM specialty, he shame all doctors everywhere. Right thing for Newman is put sword into gut and twist, he die like dog on floor but he save family from 10 generation of dishonor.

But for story from night long ago, I give you hairy barbarian with the funny eyes.



Thank you Mr. Miagi.

Kid, this is how it works, I know this is an EM forum, and this might count as a thread hijack to some degree but I still think there is at least a tangential relationship between David’s crimes and the way he behaved in the ER all those years ago.

Fist with regard to that case and trauma in general, it’s all algorithms. You know the algorithm and you follow the algorithm You got a guy with holes in him, you count the holes, you could care less who made them or what made them or if they are entrance or exit wounds. At that moment in the story, and in most penetrating trauma, the only real decision is go to the OR or not. Clock is ticking. If a vessel is rent then blood is bleeding. If you sit there and look at 80/40 come up twice on the screen and didn’t make your move then maybe you’re going to be standing in front of an audience next week hearing the chief of surgery ask the dreaded question is his soft southern accent:

“Dr X did that patient sleep with your wife?”

you will reply “No, sir”

and he will say “Then why did you kill him?

So you gonna stand there? You gonna look at that monitor and say gee, that 80/40 might be the opiate, but it also might be his splenic vein, I’ll just wait for another reading, then another one, then you say go, and then he arrests in the elevator.

And yes, it can only be the surgeon present who can say go, because it’s he or she who will, at that moment, accept the full responsibility of all that comes next. It’s sort of a big deal to open a person up, try it sometime and you’ll see. As such it is a responsibility that can never be pushed onto a person but which must be assumed by the one who will bear all of its attendant burdens. So yes, I know that this isn’t going to go over very well on an EM internet forum, sorry to have to articulate this thing that is usually left unspoken, but you should know early on that when there is an actual emergency the presence of EM staff at a trauma is about as helpful as a scale when you are trying to measure the length of a board. After a while all EM doctors realize this, they are happy for it, and things work fine.

Unfortunately, at that point in his career Newman hadn’t gotten the memo. In those days he probably was watching Goose do his thing and thought he was ready to do a crany at the bedside. He was an Emergency doctor and this was a real emergency. Every other ER guy I’ve ever known, even the young ones, would have said “sure, whatever” that night in that setting, but not David. He was different. He wanted power, the same way he wanted power as he sought to change the conversation in medicine through his writing and lectures, the same way he wanted power as he stood over that poor helpless women whom he had drugged as he pulled out his dick and prepared to humiliate her.
Hey genius, I realize the long winded thoughts in your head can be distracting, but the guy you responded to is not actually a medical student.
 
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I really hope she is making it up... Why on earth would he do it? I guess we will have to see how this plays out.
 
I really hope she is making it up... Why on earth would he do it? I guess we will have to see how this plays out.


You are really thinking this woman (who is a professional herself) is makings his up? That dude is a predator who admitted to that his ejaculated sperm made contact with her face and clothes. Some people wouldn't believe the truth if it slapped the **** outta them.

SMH


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