Dead Horses...

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Insurance scam?

Hmm...

Could be. But I didn't read that all the horses were owned by the same person. But it could be some elaborate scheme.

I am going to blame the Dutch and their lust for Horse meat.
 
They're saying, now, that it may be a poisoning or accidental exposure to a toxic substance.
 
Equine Herpesvirus 1

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/livestock/aps-07_03/aps-305.html

Very virulent neurological strain(s) have been on the rise through the 2000s. Scary stuff. Extremely contagious, usually found at congregations of horses like racetracks and shows. Usually EHV is all about respiratory and abortions, but the neuro stuff is frighteningly devastating.
 
I didn't read my own post well enough. Duhh, it was a polo match. They probably all drowned
 
I am going with yew poisoning. Intentional or otherwise.

I thought the drowning thing was hilarious though.
 
Well, whatever the cause... we need to make sure we don't beat them...




















wow I can be corny... sorry...
 
Well, whatever the cause... we need to make sure we don't beat them...







wow I can be corny... sorry...

:hijacked:

r00- I frickin' love your avatar! That episode was soo funny! Wasn't the dog's name stinky or something like that? Totally hilarious. 😆
 
hmm intriguing... it will be interesting to see the results... crazy how quick it happened, and kind of scary...
 
Equine Herpesvirus 1

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/livestock/aps-07_03/aps-305.html

Very virulent neurological strain(s) have been on the rise through the 2000s. Scary stuff. Extremely contagious, usually found at congregations of horses like racetracks and shows. Usually EHV is all about respiratory and abortions, but the neuro stuff is frighteningly devastating.

Hmm - could a neuro form of EHV go so quickly and completely without detection until 21 horses are affected? That seems odd compared to previous outbreaks. Don't at least some of the horses have a fever and respiratory signs with the neuro form?

I hope they figure it out, and soon. It doesn't seem like an insurance fraud case to me, just too much at one time.
 

Umm, that is a poor article or you interpreted it wrong. I got the impression they were all owned by different people. The horses were stabled at one place (horses had been at owners places and some just there) before taken to the place, so the exposure was said to of been taken place before the transport. All the horses had different owners and also a lot went to different places for treatment. There was one owner though, that is very rich and owned some.

Also, they ruled out airborne and that is why they are resuming on Wednesday. Could not be the new strain. They said it could of been a mix of substances and one that may have been contaminated.
 
We had a similar situation happen a few years ago at our World Championships, I think 8 horses died over the course of the show (could be more) others were saved. Ended up being blister beetles in the feed and truly just horrible. Two years ago we also lost a horse from the same thing with little to no initial signs before she went suddenly downhill.
 
We had a similar situation happen a few years ago at our World Championships, I think 8 horses died over the course of the show (could be more) others were saved. Ended up being blister beetles in the feed and truly just horrible. Two years ago we also lost a horse from the same thing with little to no initial signs before she went suddenly downhill.
What are blister beetles?
 
They are beetles that live near alfalfa field in certain areas. They die during cutting and are left in the hay which when consumed by horses they release the toxin Cantharidin. Even just a few beetles can kill a horse.

"Cantharidin is a terpenoid compound that is a strong vesicant that is extremely irritating to skin and mucous membranes and is rapidly absorbed and eliminated in the urine. Severe damage to the oral and gastrointestinal mucous membranes, urinary tract, and other organs occurs and in severely poisoned horses shock and death can occur within a few hours. The severity of poisoning is dose-related and less-severely-affected animals can be treated successfully. There is some uncertainty whether residual effects occur in horses that survive poisoning; however, given the fact that the toxin has effects on many organ systems surviving horses should be monitored closely."

In the case of my yearling we scoped her stomach (she lived at the vet's place thankfully) and her entire G.I tract was blistered from the inside out. There were 3 other horses in the barn at the same time, older horses that most have gotten the parts of the bale that were less/not infested. Its more common in certain areas than others, Texas is known for it, which was where my mare was at, but we had specially ordered hay shipped in from non-prone states but turned out the hay dealer didnt get his full shipment and replaced our order with locally grown hay without saying anything
 
This is a little off topic but I had no idea a good polo pony could go for 100K. I mean, I grew up on the East Coast hunter circuit, and certainly understand the ridiculous prices some people will pay for a show horse, but I had no idea it was like that in the polo world too! Crazy!
 
They are beetles that live near alfalfa field in certain areas. They die during cutting and are left in the hay which when consumed by horses they release the toxin Cantharidin. Even just a few beetles can kill a horse.

"Cantharidin is a terpenoid compound that is a strong vesicant that is extremely irritating to skin and mucous membranes and is rapidly absorbed and eliminated in the urine. Severe damage to the oral and gastrointestinal mucous membranes, urinary tract, and other organs occurs and in severely poisoned horses shock and death can occur within a few hours. The severity of poisoning is dose-related and less-severely-affected animals can be treated successfully. There is some uncertainty whether residual effects occur in horses that survive poisoning; however, given the fact that the toxin has effects on many organ systems surviving horses should be monitored closely."

In the case of my yearling we scoped her stomach (she lived at the vet's place thankfully) and her entire G.I tract was blistered from the inside out. There were 3 other horses in the barn at the same time, older horses that most have gotten the parts of the bale that were less/not infested. Its more common in certain areas than others, Texas is known for it, which was where my mare was at, but we had specially ordered hay shipped in from non-prone states but turned out the hay dealer didnt get his full shipment and replaced our order with locally grown hay without saying anything
Wow just wow. I never knew that. I hope that isn't very common, but it happened to your horse! Isn't there anything to kill the bastard bugs without harm to the area? Genetically engineered plants so the bugs don't like it?
 
They are beetles that live near alfalfa field in certain areas. They die during cutting and are left in the hay which when consumed by horses they release the toxin Cantharidin. Even just a few beetles can kill a horse.

"Cantharidin is a terpenoid compound that is a strong vesicant that is extremely irritating to skin and mucous membranes and is rapidly absorbed and eliminated in the urine. Severe damage to the oral and gastrointestinal mucous membranes, urinary tract, and other organs occurs and in severely poisoned horses shock and death can occur within a few hours. The severity of poisoning is dose-related and less-severely-affected animals can be treated successfully. There is some uncertainty whether residual effects occur in horses that survive poisoning; however, given the fact that the toxin has effects on many organ systems surviving horses should be monitored closely."

In the case of my yearling we scoped her stomach (she lived at the vet's place thankfully) and her entire G.I tract was blistered from the inside out. There were 3 other horses in the barn at the same time, older horses that most have gotten the parts of the bale that were less/not infested. Its more common in certain areas than others, Texas is known for it, which was where my mare was at, but we had specially ordered hay shipped in from non-prone states but turned out the hay dealer didnt get his full shipment and replaced our order with locally grown hay without saying anything

I remember hearing about this in my equine class. It is incredible to me how a simple beetle can cause so much damage. What other states have this beetle besides Texas?
 
Don't forget about maple leaf poisoning, or ionophore poisoning (when they get into the cattle feed with coccidostats) and the 800 ways they can get colic. The more time I spend in vet school, the more surprised I am that all horses aren't sick or dying all the time.

That being said, I am very curious about what "toxin" they are going to find, it is like the vet version of Clue! In the stall, with the trainer, with a ______??
 
So I was reading this article:
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dv...le/detail/594309?contextCategoryId=378&ref=25


And came across this quote:

dvm360.com said:
Eyewitnesses said several veterinarians from Wellington, a wealthy equestrian and golfing community in central Palm Beach County that hosts the event every year, rushed to the grounds to help try to revive and save some of the horses by running cold water on them and using fans that shoot a fine water mist to try to get their body temperatures down. Intravenous tubes were inserted to help them breathe.

I really would have expected something a little more intelligent from them.
 
"Intravenous tubes were inserted to help them breathe."

I could be wrong, but I think they meant endo-tracheal tubes.
 
So, what do you do in the situation?

I think david was commenting not on the treatment of the downed horses, but on the wording of the article: "Intravenous tubes were inserted to help them breathe."

As far as i know, intravenous (IV) tubes would have little effect on helping them breathe easier. I think the word the reporter was looking for was "intranasal."
 
"Intravenous tubes were inserted to help them breathe."

I could be wrong, but I think they meant endo-tracheal tubes.
ohh ok, maybe the publish person didn't write it correctly? I didn't know what you were trying to say.
 
Wow...I wonder how IV fluids helped horses breathe...someone missed an important point 🙂
haha, I couldn't pick it up quick enough because of my lack of experiences😉
 
I remember hearing about this in my equine class. It is incredible to me how a simple beetle can cause so much damage. What other states have this beetle besides Texas?

Anywhere that grows alfalfa but its mainly in southern states, Arizona had an outbreak a while ago on local grown hay. 3 horses died in that one, I know Oklahoma is another main area of concern.

The minute we saw what the yearlings GI tract looked like we decided to put her down, once they get to that point there was no way she would have been able to pull through since 98% of her stomach had already blistered. Its a big problem at our world championships where theres usually an outbreak at the fairgrounds because you have thousands of horses coming in and very few people haul their own hay. I go back to prep for world a month or two ahead of time and I dont care how tightly I have to pack I always bring my own hay but for GI integrity (horse can have GI problems just like dogs from switching to a new feed and each areas hay has different levels of nutrients) as well as to ease the worry of beetles in the hay.
 
At least 12 of the horses are here for necropsy. Sad, but exciting too.
 
At least 12 of the horses are here for necropsy. Sad, but exciting too.
Exciting perhaps, but very tragic. I know animals die, but this was strange and death that we don't know the "why" to is very alerting.
 
At least 12 of the horses are here for necropsy. Sad, but exciting too.


Will the students get a chance to observe any of the necropsies or will it be restricted because of the (sort of) high profile around this case? I agree it's horribly tragic but from a scientific standpoint also extremely fascinating.
 
Will the students get a chance to observe any of the necropsies or will it be restricted because of the (sort of) high profile around this case? I agree it's horribly tragic but from a scientific standpoint also extremely fascinating.

We have necropsy show & tell at 5pm on any day they have something to show us.. I've heard that they'll present the case(s) then, but I don't yet know if it's true. I guess I'll find out tomorrow! I don't know about restrictions as far as students currently on path rotation, but I did hear that we basically had all hands on deck today as far as our pathologists and pathology residents.

In other words.. I dunno! lol
 
Im voting virus.. maybe not EHV, but some virus.. this is crazy though
 
Hmm - could a neuro form of EHV go so quickly and completely without detection until 21 horses are affected?

No. With these epidemiological features it almost has to be a toxin.
 
Im voting virus.. maybe not EHV, but some virus.. this is crazy though

As interesting, exciting, and also quite devastating, as a virus may be, i think that this is not the case here.

I agree with those that are guessing it to be some sort of toxin or poisoning of some sort.
 
I'm voting on toxin...I think virus seems unlikely
 
Yeah, while I don't know much about equine medicine, I would find it strange if a virus caused all those horses to drop dead in such a short period of time. My money's on a toxin.

And totally unrelated, but, 1CellNtheSea, the dog's name was "Stains," I believe. I only remember because I found it so hilarious.
 
Does it say for how long the horses had been acting strange, even at all? I'd really want to know what conditions they were shipped under, etc. The only reason I brought up neurotropic EHV vas that it canindeed kill quickly, starting with only barely noticeable respiratory signs (they could have been sniffly all the way over for all we know) and usually a fever (did they check?), give em a few days, then it very rapidly progresses to increasingly severe neurological signs and then death, and is highly contagious. It depends on if that group of horses had contact with other groups....but it doesn't look like they did, only each other?

Toxins more likely, as it does sounds like a point source outbreak, but I like my viruses so always suggest since the real answer isn't always the most obvious 😉 I wish it was, but ya never know. Any timelines on the signs or any other info?
 
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Does it say for how long the horses had been acting strange, even at all? I'd really want to know what conditions they were shipped under, etc.

I don't think this has anything to do with shipping. These horses have been here all polo season and were stabled on South Road, about 2 minutes from the Polo Club. On Sunday morning, some of the horses showed (mild) signs of ataxia, but nothing that would typically cause alarm.

I also don't think this has anything to do with a virus. I'm thinking blister beetles in the hay. I'd like to know where their hay was shipped from.
 
Contaminated supplement, instead of feed? That would explain all of them dropping within the same time frame, like that.
 
One of the ingredients listed for the supplement is potassium aspartate. This would be high on my list of causes since potassium can stop the heart. Is the aspartate moiety any different in this regard?

I definitely think it was the injection. Blister beetle toxicity would have been ruled out on necropsy if there were no characteristic lesions.
 
One of the ingredients listed for the supplement is potassium aspartate. This would be high on my list of causes since potassium can stop the heart. Is the aspartate moiety any different in this regard?

I definitely think it was the injection. Blister beetle toxicity would have been ruled out on necropsy if there were no characteristic lesions.


I was just using the blister beetle case as an example of something that can kill horses in a short time period.

As far as the biotyl I think it would be hard to disprove that it was anything but that since the only horses that didnt get sick didn't receive it at all. It sounds that they used in frequently in the past, which concerns me because it points to a contaminated batch and usually a batch would be at minimum 100 bottles of that floating around just waiting to strike other horses.
 
well, were still stuck at "What kind of contaminant can result in synchronized deaths of so many animals without (much) clinically observable symptoms?"

The longer it takes a toxin to kill an animal, the greater the distribution of time to death (for the most part), due to differences in metabolism. I'm speaking strictly hypothetical here, but are there any toxins that take, say 1+ week to kill, but then kill all animals on same day?

So my thoughts are something extremely potent (perhaps in the biotyl).. which still screams intentional or gross negligence on someones part.

Or... even more sexy.

Perhaps an external trigger that lead to the metabolism of something in the biotyl to create a secondary metabolite that was the toxin.

Don't know anything about horses, and never took Tox, so I am speculating 100% here.
 
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