Dear gunlovers

[Precedex]

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I have no axe to grind here I'm honestly just trying to understand this issue better. There are SO many gun lovers on this forum so what I'm trying to understand is what do you use your guns for? I have worked in several hospitals and no one has ever brought up their gun enthusiasm with me so forgive my ignorance. PLEASE don't hijack this thread into something political I'm really just interested in what gun enthusiasts like so much about guns and when and how you became interested. I have some preconceived notions which are probably wrong.

Thanks-

 

[deleted480308]

Target shooting is fun and relaxing and I work in a field with a lot of thefts and crime so I carry for defense. That's it for me

 

[Precedex]

Target shooting is fun and relaxing and I work in a field with a lot of thefts and crime so I carry for defense. That's it for me

Ok just clarify, you are referring to anesthesiology as the field with a lot of crime and theft? Do you carry a gun with you in the hospital? I really would like some details particularly on the issue of self defense.

 

[BobBarker]

Guns have utility, hold there value or appreciate, and have a beauty in their construction and design. If you spend $700 on a used, good condition gun it will be worth at minimum $700 in the future. What hobby has that security in your investment. Certainly not golf or fly fishing.

 

[Precedex]

Guns have utility, hold there value or appreciate, and have a beauty in their construction and design. If you spend $700 on a used, good condition gun it will be worth at minimum $700 in the future. What hobby has that security in your investment. Certainly not golf or fly fishing.

Camera lenses. Musical instruments. Assuming they are taken care of well, will not depreciate much. But I think of that as a secondary benefit mostly, not a reason a priori to buy a violin. I am more interested in understanding what it is you like about guns per se. If it were the case that guns depreciated to nothing the instant after you bought it would you no longer be a gun enthusiast?

 

[deleted480308]

Ok just clarify, you are referring to anesthesiology as the field with a lot of crime and theft? Do you carry a gun with you in the hospital? I really would like some details particularly on the issue of self defense.

I'm premed and run a construction business. I would absolutely carry into my medical job if it were legal and my employer permitted it. I see no reason to not have my firearm with me...

 

[BobBarker]

If guns depreciated to nothing after purchase I would certainly have a couple of guns but not like I do now.

 

[NightNight]

Camera lenses. Musical instruments. Assuming they are taken care of well, will not depreciate much. But I think of that as a secondary benefit mostly, not a reason a priori to buy a violin. I am more interested in understanding what it is you like about guns per se. If it were the case that guns depreciated to nothing the instant after you bought it would you no longer be a gun enthusiast?

Have you ever fired one? 😎

 

[inmyslumber]

Good question posed by OP. I have wondered about why I never heard such gun enthusiasm from Anesthesiologists in the non-virtual world as well. I have been to firing ranges a few times. Exciting at first but then less exciting quickly. Not as fun as the archery range in my opinion.

 

[countingdays]

I have no axe to grind here I'm honestly just trying to understand this issue better. There are SO many gun lovers on this forum so what I'm trying to understand is what do you use your guns for? I have worked in several hospitals and no one has ever brought up they're gun enthusiasm with me so forgive my ignorance. PLEASE don't hijack this thread into something political I'm really just interested in what gun enthusiasts like so much about guns and when and how you became interested. I have some preconceived notions which are probably wrong.

Thanks-

When I was 7 or so my grandfather would staple a 1 in paper circle to an index card and have us shoot at it with BBs. Learning is fun and doing things well is fun. It was partly that he was a shooting enthusiast, and probably partly that he wanted us outside so it'd be quieter inside. Anyway, my one word answer is nostalgia.
Desire to have the option/ability to defend my family is certainly a part of it these days too.

 

[hoyden]

Good question posed by OP. I have wondered about why I never heard such gun enthusiasm from Anesthesiologists in the non-virtual world as well. I have been to firing ranges a few times. Exciting at first but then less exciting quickly. Not as fun as the archery range in my opinion.

Because you do not hear about it in any social or professional setting - it is strictly your own business and it is right at the edge of security issue as well - perfectly shown after the Journal news publication.

Nobody actually talks passionately about anything in professional world - your work is supposed to be your main passion

anonymous forum lets people be more open.

plus guns and gun ownership is NOT your standard hobby as it is your Constitutional right

 

[Noegrus]

Because the contributors on the forum are not a true cross section of medical professionals or anesthesiologists.

 

[Medstart108]

I have no axe to grind here I'm honestly just trying to understand this issue better. There are SO many gun lovers on this forum so what I'm trying to understand is what do you use your guns for? I have worked in several hospitals and no one has ever brought up they're gun enthusiasm with me so forgive my ignorance. PLEASE don't hijack this thread into something political I'm really just interested in what gun enthusiasts like so much about guns and when and how you became interested. I have some preconceived notions which are probably wrong.

Thanks-

I'm afraid of guns because they can take away all those years of training, studying and medical school with just a single bullet🙁 Worser still, if someone shoots you, you are in pain before you die. The worst is that the last thing you probably see is your attacker.

I understand guns as a hobby, but why they cannot limit assault weapons to gun ranges is beyond me.

The notion that guns save lives as a total is just wrong as well. Countries that ban guns like the UK, Japan or even just add restrictions on some guns like Canada have remarkably fewer gun deaths.

Cities like Chicago, which is often cited as a place with tough gun laws yet rampant gun violence only have the gun violence because there is no border between Chicago and the rest of america. You can easily buy a gun or get someone with no criminal record to buy a gun outside Chicago's city limits and then drive it into Chicago.

People who collect guns as antiques, i'm all for. I understand that people living in rural areas need guns.

I believe though, that the US should enact some restrictions on guns.

 

[hoyden]

I'm afraid of guns because they can take away all those years of training, studying and medical school with just a single bullet🙁 Worser still, if someone shoots you, you are in pain before you die. The worst is that the last thing you probably see is your attacker.

you should move to Japan or UK. Or buy yourself a ride to a gun range and try to shoot there. no other way to overcome totally irrational fear 😉

 

[loveoforganic2]

I personally mostly use my guns to shoot sporting clays (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKLE3nV8IOU - link for if you have no idea what I'm talking about). It's a great way to combine the outdoors, heritage/tradition, and fun/challenging sport. I think a lot of the fervent enthusiasm for guns comes from (a) their historical utility (e.g. a low tech means of being self sufficient) and (b) from a rights/perceived future needs aspect, and in that light I think they gather additional support because they're the 1st and only really easily obtainable "strength equalizer" that society has ever had.

I'm afraid of guns because they can take away all those years of training, studying and medical school with just a single bullet🙁 Worser still, if someone shoots you, you are in pain before you die. The worst is that the last thing you probably see is your attacker.

I understand guns as a hobby, but why they cannot limit assault weapons to gun ranges is beyond me.

The notion that guns save lives as a total is just wrong as well. Countries that ban guns like the UK, Japan or even just add restrictions on some guns like Canada have remarkably fewer gun deaths.

Cities like Chicago, which is often cited as a place with tough gun laws yet rampant gun violence only have the gun violence because there is no border between Chicago and the rest of america. You can easily buy a gun or get someone with no criminal record to buy a gun outside Chicago's city limits and then drive it into Chicago.

People who collect guns as antiques, i'm all for. I understand that people living in rural areas need guns.

I believe though, that the US should enact some restrictions on guns.

I and several others would be willing to discuss this with you if you're not trolling, but the OP specifically mentioned not wanting to go there. There are a couple recent threads that discuss this right on the front page of this board, feel free to go there.

 

[periopdoc]

Because you asked to remain apolitical, I will ignore Medstarts inane post and answer the question why I love my guns and what I use them for.

I collect guns much like a car collector, oenophile or a action figure collector collects the object of their interest. I have a passing interest in classic cars, but some people are truly passionate about them in ways I never will be. There are show cars and show guns that can be appreciated by non-enthusiasts. For instance, I suspect even the most rabid anti gunner can appreciate the beauty of a fine Weldon Lister rendered piece like this one.

A piece like this is comparable to a Ferrari Enzo or Bugatti Veyron. Widely appreciated, but only obtainable by a very select group of people. Mere mortals may find themselves enthralled by a more mundane car/ gun that they can actually get their hands on. Many times that car or gun may not seem particularly impressive to a non-enthusiast no matter how hard the enthusiast tries to explain it. I can't even begin to understand the allure of children's toys to adults collectors, but I don't have to because I can compare it to the allure of things that I do enjoy collecting.

For some gun enthusiasts, the single action revolver represents the pinnacle of desirability. For others, it is the modern sporting rifle (the so-called assault weapon) that can be built, taken apart, and changed around and rebuilt. It truly is Legos for adults. Others are more interested in what the gun can do than what it looks like.

So what do I do with my guns. I try to become more proficient at controlling them. Like most things in life, it is easy to pick up and gain a modicum of proficiency. Anyone can pick up a gun at the range and blast a few holes in a stationary target. However, To truly excel takes a level of dedication to training that few are willing to go through. My goals include 1/2 MOA accuracy at 1000 yards. That means putting ten shots into a 5 inch circle on a target that is 1000 yards away. In this regard, the appeal is similar to the appeal of the search for the perfect bowling game or the pursuit of a sub-par golf game (two sports I don't "get", but I can appreciate how others do). I also want to improve my ability to shoot little clay birds with a shotgun. I am aware of just how ridiculous that sounds to some people, but I enjoy it. There are other hobbies that sound ridiculous to me, but I just try to compare it to one of my hobbies to understand the allure.

I also use my guns to hunt. Some people find it abhorrent that I find sport in humanely killing an animal. I see it as no more abhorrent than buying meat from a slaughter yard, but I am treading into the political. I enjoy the understanding of where my meat actually comes from. I don't anthropomorphize them and feel they have some connection to me, however I do have a connection to them in a way that one who buys all his meat from the store never will.

I also carry defensively. I hope to never fire at another person just like you hope to never use your seatbelt for it's intended purpose. However, if I am ever in the position to need it, my gun will be at an arms length.

Well I could ramble on some more, but my phone's battery is at 5% and I may need it later. Just a few random thoughts that might give you some insight into why I am a gun lover and what I do with them.


- pod

 

[BLADEMDA]

Because the contributors on the forum are not a true cross section of medical professionals or anesthesiologists.

I've talked 4 of my partners into buying guns. All it takes is one trip to the shooting range and
Most want their own gun.

At the range I practice my skills and work on my hand eye coordination.
Plus, I get to make my day

 

[yesno]

Because you do not hear about it in any social or professional setting - it is strictly your own business and it is right at the edge of security issue as well - perfectly shown after the Journal news publication.

Nobody actually talks passionately about anything in professional world - your work is supposed to be your main passion

anonymous forum lets people be more open.

plus guns and gun ownership is NOT your standard hobby as it is your Constitutional right

I agree that some things are not to be discussed in real life. I've read the recent saga about Dr512 banning. And I understand some people are offended by any form of "trolling". So what exactly is trolling? To me it is any topic that you would not say in a professional setting if your name is known. But perhaps certain things are much more offensive if you are not anonymous? For example if you know my name and I state "I hate fat people", you might infer that I am referring to my coworker or his wife. That is of course disgustingly offensive. But if I say something anonymously is it anything more than a curiousity or an abstract thought? I am MS2, an aspiring anesthesiologist, and occasionally it is interesting to read your (doctor) perspective on certain "off-topics". I do not mean to derail this topic. Just wanted to add to it by asking another question. So my interest is trophy wives. And what I want to know is what is your opinion on marrying a woman who does not work or works in something funny like real estate and would be way out of your league if you did not make doctor salaries? If you get her body and she gets your money, is it not fair? What do you think about importing a trophy wife from overseas, where your $ might go further? I know the type I am looking for, I speak their language and they speak english, so that's not an issue. Do any of you have trophy wives? Regret having a trophy wife? Regret not having a trophy wife?

 

[yesno]

I'm afraid of guns because they can take away all those years of training, studying and medical school with just a single bullet🙁 Worser still, if someone shoots you, you are in pain before you die. The worst is that the last thing you probably see is your attacker.

I understand guns as a hobby, but why they cannot limit assault weapons to gun ranges is beyond me.

The notion that guns save lives as a total is just wrong as well. Countries that ban guns like the UK, Japan or even just add restrictions on some guns like Canada have remarkably fewer gun deaths.

Cities like Chicago, which is often cited as a place with tough gun laws yet rampant gun violence only have the gun violence because there is no border between Chicago and the rest of america. You can easily buy a gun or get someone with no criminal record to buy a gun outside Chicago's city limits and then drive it into Chicago.

People who collect guns as antiques, i'm all for. I understand that people living in rural areas need guns.

I believe though, that the US should enact some restrictions on guns.

What you are saying is statistically accurate. But there are many things that cause increased deaths in a population. Even if you forget about alcohol, driving in itself causes many more deaths in USA than in countries that use more passenger trains. I think an average smoker causes me more harm than an average gun owner..

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'm afraid of guns because they can take away all those years of training, studying and medical school with just a single bullet🙁 Worser still, if someone shoots you, you are in pain before you die. The worst is that the last thing you probably see is your attacker.

I understand guns as a hobby, but why they cannot limit assault weapons to gun ranges is beyond me.

The notion that guns save lives as a total is just wrong as well. Countries that ban guns like the UK, Japan or even just add restrictions on some guns like Canada have remarkably fewer gun deaths.

Cities like Chicago, which is often cited as a place with tough gun laws yet rampant gun violence only have the gun violence because there is no border between Chicago and the rest of america. You can easily buy a gun or get someone with no criminal record to buy a gun outside Chicago's city limits and then drive it into Chicago.

People who collect guns as antiques, i'm all for. I understand that people living in rural areas need guns.

I believe though, that the US should enact some restrictions on guns.

Supreme Court Justice Scaglia said I have a right to own a gun but that right isn't unlimited. This means the US govt has the authority to regulate guns including the purchase of an AR15 (which I proudly own).

In the USA we have the second Amendment to protect US citizens from the tyranny of government. Please study your own history for examples of such tyranny. The founders wanted to make certain that people never feared their government but that government feared the people.

I shoot and collect guns. All types of guns. I have a concealed carry permit as do millions of US Citizens. I don't feel less safe because my fellow Floridians carry guns;on the contrary, I feel better knowing law abiding Citizens are armed and can defend themselves as well as others if needed.


There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the USA. In my state more people own guns than those who choose not to own a firearm. So, someone in a liberal blue state needs to be careful about statements which pertain to red states.

At my hospital the majority of the medical staff owns guns. Even though I own dozens of firearms I would consider myself "average" in the number of high powered weapons I own. Some of my guns include range guns like a Smith and Wesson Model 41 and several 9mm range guns. These weapons are for target shooting only.

Some of my friends own expensive shotguns for skeet shooting or pheasant hunting. Most also own a few other weapons as well.

If a newspaper published the list of all the homes in my county which owned guns they would need to publish a book.

 

[periopdoc]

One of the liberal papers in Montana wanted to publish the names of all gun owners in Montana. They decided it was a hell of a lot easier to publish the list of those who don't.

Three people made it into the paper for their 15 minutes of fame.


- pod

 

[SpecterGT260]

One of the liberal papers in Montana wanted to publish the names of all gun owners in Montana. They decided it was a hell of a lot easier to publish the list of those who don't.

Three people made it into the paper for their 15 minutes of fame.


- pod

Is the paper liable if armed robberies increase in these households?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[dudeliness]

Because you asked to remain apolitical, I will ignore Medstarts inane post and answer the question why I love my guns and what I use them for.

I collect guns much like a car collector, oenophile or a action figure collector collects the object of their interest. I have a passing interest in classic cars, but some people are truly passionate about them in ways I never will be. There are show cars and show guns that can be appreciated by non-enthusiasts. For instance, I suspect even the most rabid anti gunner can appreciate the beauty of a fine Weldon Lister rendered piece like this one.

A piece like this is comparable to a Ferrari Enzo or Bugatti Veyron. Widely appreciated, but only obtainable by a very select group of people. Mere mortals may find themselves enthralled by a more mundane car/ gun that they can actually get their hands on. Many times that car or gun may not seem particularly impressive to a non-enthusiast no matter how hard the enthusiast tries to explain it. I can't even begin to understand the allure of children's toys to adults collectors, but I don't have to because I can compare it to the allure of things that I do enjoy collecting.

For some gun enthusiasts, the single action revolver represents the pinnacle of desirability. For others, it is the modern sporting rifle (the so-called assault weapon) that can be built, taken apart, and changed around and rebuilt. It truly is Legos for adults. Others are more interested in what the gun can do than what it looks like.

So what do I do with my guns. I try to become more proficient at controlling them. Like most things in life, it is easy to pick up and gain a modicum of proficiency. Anyone can pick up a gun at the range and blast a few holes in a stationary target. However, To truly excel takes a level of dedication to training that few are willing to go through. My goals include 1/2 MOA accuracy at 1000 yards. That means putting ten shots into a 5 inch circle on a target that is 1000 yards away. In this regard, the appeal is similar to the appeal of the search for the perfect bowling game or the pursuit of a sub-par golf game (two sports I don't "get", but I can appreciate how others do). I also want to improve my ability to shoot little clay birds with a shotgun. I am aware of just how ridiculous that sounds to some people, but I enjoy it. There are other hobbies that sound ridiculous to me, but I just try to compare it to one of my hobbies to understand the allure.

I also use my guns to hunt. Some people find it abhorrent that I find sport in humanely killing an animal. I see it as no more abhorrent than buying meat from a slaughter yard, but I am treading into the political. I enjoy the understanding of where my meat actually comes from. I don't anthropomorphize them and feel they have some connection to me, however I do have a connection to them in a way that one who buys all his meat from the store never will.

I also carry defensively. I hope to never fire at another person just like you hope to never use your seatbelt for it's intended purpose. However, if I am ever in the position to need it, my gun will be at an arms length.

Well I could ramble on some more, but my phone's battery is at 5% and I may need it later. Just a few random thoughts that might give you some insight into why I am a gun lover and what I do with them.


- pod

An excellently worded explanation of gun enthusiasm in general. I would also say that this applies to me as well, although I get to do those types of activities pretty infrequently.

 

[gasattack3]

It is indeed a good question.

For me, I only own one gun. A 9mm little subcompact deal which seems like a good enough gun to me (and from reviews I've read etc.). I've only shot it once and that was during my CCW course, taught by an active duty police officer.

I've never hunted in my life (other than with a slingshot as a kid) and while I live in a super-big hunting state, I really don't have a desire to unless (and I'm sure it'll happen) I end up going up with some buddies for a "get-away". That being said, I have no problem with hunting as long as it's done in a way which makes an attempt to minimize any accidental suffering (or dealing with that suffering responsibly and humanely). I have a lot of friends that do hunt.

The honest to god reason I bought a gun was from an increasing appreciation for the 2nd Amendment and what I believe it really stands for. This was precipitated by an also increasing belief that our government (not Joe Elected local republican or democrat, but the POWER STRUCTURE in the U.S.) and the interests of our "power elite" are increasingly (favorite word of the day I guess) at odds with that of our people.

Under this belief system which I do hold, it seems INCREASINGLY possible that that "interest divergence" become increasingly problematic. This will (o.k. I'll stop) possibly lead to an eventual clash of interests which can lead to all sorts of bad things as it always has throughout history. Having a way to mitigate the possibility of that badness happening will be important since nobody wants to be at the receiving end of the destructive capacity that our government (representing the power structure) wields.

So, yes, I believe that an armed citizenry is a deterent to make that scenario less likely to happen.

Now, clearly there is a downside to this. Part of that downside is the result of a deindustrialized country which invests very little (by way of comparison to other "first rate" nations) in it's people, a lack of good jobs for the masses, the widest prosperity gap in any of the Western nations, as well as perhaps too "diverse" (thus socially less cohesive) a country. Poverty and illegal drug problems coupled with a fake wellfare state which is nothing more than hush money makes for problems in our streets which we all see, but these are issues which are probably not even fixable anymore, and I digress. But, it's a good question.

 

[Noegrus]

9mm handguns will protect against a government that controls the world's most heavily armed and technologically advanced military? Let me give you an example. The Bell AH-1 Cobra gunship helicopter has 2 miniguns. Each fires @ 2000-6000 rounds/minute. I am sure that prized Glock will do a great job in this situation.

 

[NightNight]

9mm handguns will protect against a government that controls the world's most heavily armed and technologically advanced military? Let me give you an example. The Bell AH-1 Cobra gunship helicopter has 2 miniguns. Each fires @ 2000-6000 rounds/minute. I am sure that prized Glock will do a great job in this situation.

How quickly do you think that pilot would quit operating said machine when he was asked by his government to turn those miniguns on US citizens? This is a debate I get into all the time (well, recently at least) when discussing this issue and what we really need the 2nd amendment for. People are always like "dude, the US gov. has so many high-tech missiles/predator drones your AR won't mean ****" but honestly do you think those could ever really be effectively brought to bear on US soil/US citizens without unacceptable non-combatant casualties? This is all obviously doomsday talk, but I really am curious to hear the opinion of some of the military guys on here on this (especially how they think an average service member would feel about being asked to use deadly force against US citizens)?

 

[jetproppilot]

I have no axe to grind here I'm honestly just trying to understand this issue better. There are SO many gun lovers on this forum so what I'm trying to understand is what do you use your guns for? I have worked in several hospitals and no one has ever brought up their gun enthusiasm with me so forgive my ignorance. PLEASE don't hijack this thread into something political I'm really just interested in what gun enthusiasts like so much about guns and when and how you became interested. I have some preconceived notions which are probably wrong.

Thanks-

I am not a gun enthusiast

yet

I am a gun owner.

This will be the first and I hope the last time I

speak about firearms.

I'm not a gun person. When it comes to violence, I'm part of the

HERD MENTALITY that random violence

NEVER HAPPENS TO YOU!!

Fortunately (or unfortunately...you be the judge),

My 24 year old son is an active duty Army Sergeant who served in Iraq for a year in a live fire zone. People shot at him. He shot back. Or vice versa. You get the gig.

So IMAGINE what my son says about GUNS.🙂

Initially, I just blew him off...but I guess it takes tragedy/reality for alot of us to

SEE THE LIGHT....that

RANDOM VIOLENCE CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME.

THE FOLLOWING IS A TRUE STORY:

Orthopedic surgeon buddy of mine. Lives in an "elite" neighborhood.

Dudes married; kids.

AWAKENED early AM by noise downstairs.

Stumbles down the stairway, sees an

INTRUDER

in the kitchen.

Yells. Screams.

Intruder RETREATS,

albeit with all the good stuff my buddy left in the kitchen...wallet, wife's purse, computer, etc.

Buddy VERY LUCKY intruder wanted no part of violence because if he had, SAID BUDDY WAS UNARMED.

Buddy could be sucking a DIRT PILLOW right now and forever. Thank God intruder wanted no part of a fight and fled...but it doesn't always end that way.

This is a true story. Buddy's wife so freaked out she wanted to move. Buddy so freaked out his compound now has freaky locks and video cameras taping every angle.

MORAL OF THIS STORY? MORAL OF MY WAR TRAINED SON CONSTANTLY LECTURING ME ABOUT RANDOM VIOLENCE?

It can happen to you.

Regardless of where you live.

I wish you guys could witness my son lecturing me on the importance of

having a plan if Home Invasion takes place!

He's shown me how to react...my bedroom is on the second floor and my younger boys sleep on the third floor..he's shown me how to

1) Get gun (it's in a protective safe; only my fingerprint will open it)
2) Proceed to stairway (I'm on the second floor)
3) DEFEND STAIRWAY while calling for help

Son's tactical knowledge has indeed made me more aware of how to react in the unfortunate event of a Home Invasion.....which...ummmm...happened to my buddy just a few months ago....in an "elite" neighborhood.

TRUTH IS,

we live in a different world today.

RANDOM VIOLENCE can happen anywhere.

Solely because of my older son, I am a

GUN OWNER.

I've been trained how to protect myself and my family.

My 9mm Glock is a finger tip away.

I wish it weren't.

Reality Hurts Sometimes.

 

[infarct]

someone in a liberal blue state needs to be careful about statements which pertain to red states.

as a point...florida is no longer red.

 

[pgg]

9mm handguns will protect against a government that controls the world's most heavily armed and technologically advanced military? Let me give you an example. The Bell AH-1 Cobra gunship helicopter has 2 miniguns. Each fires @ 2000-6000 rounds/minute. I am sure that prized Glock will do a great job in this situation.

You miss the point of how an armed citizenry protects against government tyranny.

How is it possible that given the last 10 years of world events, you've missed how effective lightly armed individuals and small groups are at resisting our modern military? We've been in Afghanistan for 11 years.


It's not that anyone thinks that shooting at helicopter gunships or tanks, or resisting SWAT teams coming to confiscate guns will work. No single person or group of people can win those fights, so no single person or group of people will get into those fights in the first place.

So where are armed citizens effective at resisting their tyrannical governments? Again, look at current events. What happened during the uprising in Egypt? A mostly disarmed population was at the mercy of thugs coming in the night to intimidate, kidnap, or kill opposition leaders and protest organizers. Except in the neighborhoods where a couple people happened to have guns.

That's the value of an armed public. It makes intimidation expensive, slow, costly, and less effective. No one has Red Dawn Wolverine fantasies.


Declaring that there's no point to an armed public because a person with a handgun can't stand up to a military helicopter is a poor (but common) strawman argument.

as a point...florida is no longer red.

I bet it's still a hotly contested swing state next election.

 

[pgg]

I have no axe to grind here I'm honestly just trying to understand this issue better. There are SO many gun lovers on this forum so what I'm trying to understand is what do you use your guns for?

Periopdoc had an excellent response as usual.

For me ...

1) Target shooting. It's a fun hobby. Very challenging and rewarding once you get longer ranges involved.

2) Self-defense should be self-evident and self-explanatory, though I hope that's never necessary.

3) Civic duty and history. We're a nation founded on individual freedoms and the sovereignty of the individual. Unlike any other nation, we the people have chosen to give up some individual freedom and delegate some authority to a government charged with defense of our freedom. Most every other nation, individual rights are awarded by the government. There's a unique and profound difference in an American citizen's relationship with our government - that we trust our government with power while it trusts us with guns has been at the core of our national identity since the Revolution. It's sad that some Americans are so willing to give up that birthright and relationship with our government, all for the illusion of safety.

 

[BobBarker]

Exactly PGG. This is a nation with more than one "swamp fox".

 

[gasattack3]

You miss the point of how an armed citizenry protects against government tyranny.

How is it possible that given the last 10 years of world events, you've missed how effective lightly armed individuals and small groups are at resisting our modern military? We've been in Afghanistan for 11 years.


It's not that anyone thinks that shooting at helicopter gunships or tanks, or resisting SWAT teams coming to confiscate guns will work. No single person or group of people can win those fights, so no single person or group of people will get into those fights in the first place.

So where are armed citizens effective at resisting their tyrannical governments? Again, look at current events. What happened during the uprising in Egypt? A mostly disarmed population was at the mercy of thugs coming in the night to intimidate, kidnap, or kill opposition leaders and protest organizers. Except in the neighborhoods where a couple people happened to have guns.

That's the value of an armed public. It makes intimidation expensive, slow, costly, and less effective. No one has Red Dawn Wolverine fantasies.


Declaring that there's no point to an armed public because a person with a handgun can't stand up to a military helicopter is a poor (but common) strawman argument.




I bet it's still a hotly contested swing state next election.

This is exactly correct IMHO. And when you have choices, rational people will choose the less expensive option.

 

[gasattack3]

My guess would be that few here would argue that the U.S. has societal issues which can make gun ownership problematic at times. But, look at the Swiss as an example of a people with very free gun laws (at one time and maybe until JUST recently, all conscripts (thus all male citizens) got to keep their carbines which they were assigned during their military service.

As an example of "guns don't kill people, people kill people", we might start by analyzing the Swiss for that.

 

[SpecterGT260]

My guess would be that few here would argue that the U.S. has societal issues which can make gun ownership problematic at times. But, look at the Swiss as an example of a people with very free gun laws (at one time and maybe until JUST recently, all conscripts (thus all male citizens) got to keep their carbines which they were assigned during their military service.

As an example of "guns don't kill people, people kill people", we might start by analyzing the Swiss for that.

I've never heard this angle before. I assume they have very low gum violence rates? In the per capital graphs I've seen I don't recall the Swiss ranking highly in ownership.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[gasattack3]

I've never heard this angle before. I assume they have very low gum violence rates? In the per capital graphs I've seen I don't recall the Swiss ranking highly in ownership.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1566715.stm

As always, when someone (myself) posts something from a large mainstream news agency, I would cross reference (even if it has a bent which is atypical of it's general position or what it generally chooses to focus on). I've done this already.

Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.
The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

This is in a very large part due to Switzerland's unique system of national defence, developed over the centuries.

Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives.

Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home.

Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to.

Few restrictions

In addition to the government-provided arms, there are few restrictions on buying weapons. Some cantons restrict the carrying of firearms - others do not.

The government even sells off surplus weaponry to the general public when new equipment is introduced.

Guns and shooting are popular national pastimes. More than 200,000 Swiss attend national annual marksmanship competitions.

But despite the wide ownership and availability of guns, violent crime is extremely rare. There are only minimal controls at public buildings and politicians rarely have police protection.

Mark Eisenecker, a sociologist from the University of Zurich told BBC News Online that guns are "anchored" in Swiss society and that gun control is simply not an issue.

Some pro-gun groups argue that Switzerland proves their contention that there is not necessarily a link between the availability of guns and violent crime in society.

Low crime

But other commentators suggest that the reality is more complicated.

Switzerland is one of the world's richest countries, but has remained relatively isolated.

It has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialised countries like drugs or urban deprivation.

Despite the lack of rigid gun laws, firearms are strictly connected to a sense of collective responsibility.

From an early age Swiss men and women associate weaponry with being called to defend their country.

 

[hoyden]

I agree that some things are not to be discussed in real life. I've read the recent saga about Dr512 banning. And I understand some people are offended by any form of "trolling". So what exactly is trolling? To me it is any topic that you would not say in a professional setting if your name is known. But perhaps certain things are much more offensive if you are not anonymous? For example if you know my name and I state "I hate fat people", you might infer that I am referring to my coworker or his wife. That is of course disgustingly offensive. But if I say something anonymously is it anything more than a curiousity or an abstract thought? I am MS2, an aspiring anesthesiologist, and occasionally it is interesting to read your (doctor) perspective on certain "off-topics". I do not mean to derail this topic. Just wanted to add to it by asking another question. So my interest is trophy wives. And what I want to know is what is your opinion on marrying a woman who does not work or works in something funny like real estate and would be way out of your league if you did not make doctor salaries? If you get her body and she gets your money, is it not fair? What do you think about importing a trophy wife from overseas, where your $ might go further? I know the type I am looking for, I speak their language and they speak english, so that's not an issue. Do any of you have trophy wives? Regret having a trophy wife? Regret not having a trophy wife?

i couldn't care less about trophy wives

 

[periopdoc]

A piece by Leonard Francolini, commissioned through the Colt Custom Shop. Personally, I prefer the deeper relief carving of Lister, and the grips on this one are suboptimal, but I love how Francolini skeletonizes the front sight. Click on image for larger picture.

- pod

 

[pgg]

I'd be afraid to shoot those works of art, pod. 🙂

To me the beauty is in the function. I could never own a garage queen classic car or exotic sports car ... if I had a Ferrari it'd be my daily driver, even if I lived in Montana and it was January, I'd want to drive it every day.

 

[periopdoc]

Yeah, those guns do not get shot... They don't even get cocked. Your statement about form/ function is exactly what I was talking about. The attraction is different for everyone. Each attraction is perfectly valid, but some are harder for non-enthusiasts to appreciate.

I only have two safe queens right now. A unfired Colt Python from the year of my birth

and this one.

It doesn't photograph well and it is certainly a whole lot cheaper than those others I posted.

I tried to find #50 of 100, but my research suggests that it was given as a gift to Sarah Palin from Ruger.

- pod

 

[DocFocker]

5 days without power in your city will settle that curiosity pretty quickly. Why become a victim when you could familiarize yourself with firearms and potentially act to defend your person and family.

 

[loveoforganic2]

I hope you have a python that you can shoot too pod 🙂 I can understand keeping that one as a safe queen though Great revolver, shoot a blued rather than a nickel however!

 

[DocFocker]

I agree that some things are not to be discussed in real life. I've read the recent saga about Dr512 banning. And I understand some people are offended by any form of "trolling". So what exactly is trolling? To me it is any topic that you would not say in a professional setting if your name is known. But perhaps certain things are much more offensive if you are not anonymous? For example if you know my name and I state "I hate fat people", you might infer that I am referring to my coworker or his wife. That is of course disgustingly offensive. But if I say something anonymously is it anything more than a curiousity or an abstract thought? I am MS2, an aspiring anesthesiologist, and occasionally it is interesting to read your (doctor) perspective on certain "off-topics". I do not mean to derail this topic. Just wanted to add to it by asking another question. So my interest is trophy wives. And what I want to know is what is your opinion on marrying a woman who does not work or works in something funny like real estate and would be way out of your league if you did not make doctor salaries? If you get her body and she gets your money, is it not fair? What do you think about importing a trophy wife from overseas, where your $ might go further? I know the type I am looking for, I speak their language and they speak english, so that's not an issue. Do any of you have trophy wives? Regret having a trophy wife? Regret not having a trophy wife?

Seriously? That body you admire will sag in a few years. Then you will be unhappy and left with a leech. Marry for love or don't marry and safe yourself a ton of money.

 

[periopdoc]

Do any of you have trophy wives? Regret having a trophy wife? Regret not having a trophy wife?

Seriously? That body you admire will sag in a few years. Then you will be unhappy and left with a leech. Marry for love or don't marry and safe yourself a ton of money.

Do you need a rule of thumb that will make it easy for you to know when, if ever, you can finally "settle down" with one of these broads? I'll keep it simple:

Your future ex-wife hasn't even been born yet.

That's right. If you are 21, you are too young to get married or move in with anyone because when you have more money and success (no matter how much or how little money and success you end up with, it will be more than you have today), the younger, hotter chicks that you can't get now will be coming your way. And today's hot chicks who ignore you are tomorrow's dried-up has-beens. You want to get with their daughters, not them. Your goal is to be 42 and be with a 20-year-old. And, you see? If you are 21, you have to wait until she is conceived, born, and grows up, and that process hasn't even begun for the chick you want to end up with yet.

- pod

 

[periopdoc]

I hope you have a python that you can shoot too pod 🙂 I can understand keeping that one as a safe queen though Great revolver, shoot a blued rather than a nickel however!

Yep, have a shooter, or two, as well.

- pod

 

[hoyden]

A piece by Leonard Francolini, commissioned through the Colt Custom Shop. Personally, I prefer the deeper relief carving of Lister, and the grips on this one are suboptimal, but I love how Francolini skeletonizes the front sight. Click on image for larger picture.

- pod

ahhhhh

what a beauty

but you can't shoot from that... it is there to be admired and awed 😍

 

[hoyden]

as a point...florida is no longer red.

neither is it blue - 0.8% a difference is NOT a difference.

Turnout IS

 

[periopdoc]

Yep, although the evil side of me would love to pull something like this out at the range and start shooting just to see the look on other people's faces.

- pod

 

[Planktonmd]

OK,
Here is the deal... I am not perceived on this forum as "gun lover" but guess what...
I do love guns and I own a few of them!
Here is how I see it: Do not own a gun if you don't think you can use it!
All these beautiful ornamental guns are basically useless.
I buy Guns that are useful to me. which means guns that can help me defend my family.
This in my opinion includes:
1- A good shotgun: Everyone on earth should have a shotgun with some heavy buck shots because it is the single most effective tool to deter/kill an assailant even in the hands of the most gun hating democrat!
2- A Glock: The most wonderful pistol ever made... you simply can't live without one!
3- A 1911 Pistol: You need one of those to prove you are American!

 

[hoyden]

Yep, although the evil side of me would love to pull something like this out at the range and start shooting just to see the look on other people's faces.

- pod

 

[hoyden]

OK,
Here is the deal... I am not perceived on this forum as "gun lover" but guess what...
I do love guns and I own a few of them!
Here is how I see it: Do not own a gun if you don't think you can use it!
All these beautiful ornamental guns are basically useless.
I buy Guns that are useful to me. which means guns that can help me defend my family.
This in my opinion includes:
1- A good shotgun: Everyone on earth should have a shotgun with some heavy buck shots because it is the single most effective tool to deter/kill an assailant even in the hands of the most gun hating democrat!
2- A Glock: The most wonderful pistol ever made... you simply can't live without one!
3- A 1911 Pistol: You need one of those to prove you are American!

too bad it has a powerful recoil - and I am not sure if I won't just shoot in the ceiling instead

kicks like a mule