Debt

[jenfromdablock]

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Am I only one freaking out about this debt problem?

I mean, all my interviews are at private schools.


The debt problem doesn't seem that bad when you only factor tuition per year but if you include EVERYTHING, then it's something like 400k


I'm already 55k in debt as-is from undergraduate school so add another 400k, and I'll be at 450k to pay off.

How much monthly payments would this require? It's freaking me out.

 

[sjv]

You're not alone.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1033356

 

[blankman321]

the rebuttal I get from some ppl when being concerned about debt is then "why did you choose dentistry"

apparently they have no idea how difficult it is to get a job with a biology/liberal arts degree/etc.

 

[CoffeeDDS]

The debt is a problem. If you are going into dentistry for the money, look elsewhere. I think dentistry as a profession is headed downhill. It will be like pharmacy pretty soon, in 20 years you'll be pulling up to a Walmart in a minivan to go to work.

 

[Teeths]

If you're THAT stressed about it, which you have every reason to be in all honesty, then start looking into the military scholarship programs. They pay your tuition and give you a monthly stipend for the 4 years in dental school and you give them 4 years after you're out.

If that's not your thing... well, welcome to the club 😛

 

[gn4]

The debt is a problem. If you are going into dentistry for the money, look elsewhere. I think dentistry as a profession is headed downhill. It will be like pharmacy pretty soon, in 20 years you'll be pulling up to a Walmart in a minivan to go to work.

so why have you not dropped out?

 

[CoffeeDDS]

I'm in my third year, so it'd be even dumber for me to drop out now then it was for me to even pursue dentistry. I'm going to get my degree and then focus half of my time on dentistry and the other half on entrepreneurial ventures.

 

[yappy]

The debt is a problem. If you are going into dentistry for the money, look elsewhere. I think dentistry as a profession is headed downhill. It will be like pharmacy pretty soon, in 20 years you'll be pulling up to a Walmart in a minivan to go to work.

But my pharmacist drives a Lexus😎

 

[johnho771]

The debt is a problem. If you are going into dentistry for the money, look elsewhere. I think dentistry as a profession is headed downhill. It will be like pharmacy pretty soon, in 20 years you'll be pulling up to a Walmart in a minivan to go to work.

While I do think I understand the point you are getting at, I hate the comparison of dentistry to pharmacy. I nor anyone I know ever cared about who my pharmacist was. I as other people I know, however, do care about which dentist I go to and strive to find one I like.

 

[Teeths]

While I do think I understand the point you are getting at, I hate the comparison of dentistry to pharmacy. I nor anyone I know ever cared about who my pharmacist was. I as other people I know, however, do care about which dentist I go to and strive to find one I like.

This is very true. It's sort of an invasion of privacy to have someone put their fingers in your mouth (I mean, let's be honest that's what it is here) so you want to have a certain level of trust with that person, or at least like them. With pharmacy, there's no real need for interaction other than if you have a question about what you can or cannot eat with a particular drug. In a lot of cases, people just go to the pharmacy drive-thru and get their bottle o' pills and that's the end of it. Dental work is a little more complicated than that.

 

[jenfromdablock]

I mean, it's going to take 10-15 years to pay it off. Even if I lived with my parents and saved hardcore for the first 3 years or something and made about 120k, I still couldn't do it!

 

[Datooth]

I mean, it's going to take 10-15 years to pay it off. Even if I lived with my parents and saved hardcore for the first 3 years or something and made about 120k, I still couldn't do it!

That's my plan. Stay at home for 3 years and aggressively pay off 70-80% of my loan. Then I can do whatever I want and it beats going to the military.

 

[jenfromdablock]

That's my plan. Stay at home for 3 years and aggressively pay off 70-80% of my loan. Then I can do whatever I want and it beats going to the military.

Staying home with your parents in your early 30's is def not attractive!!!

 

[Datooth]

Staying home with your parents in your early 30's is def not attractive!!!

I'm not going to be 30 after those 3 hypothetical years let alone in my 30's. Even if I was, I really wouldn't care what X person thinks when I'm saving myself hundreds of thousands in interest. Not to mention I probably wouldn't have liked / known that person to begin with if their thought process was that shallow.

 

[Teeths]

That's my plan. Stay at home for 3 years and aggressively pay off 70-80% of my loan. Then I can do whatever I want and it beats going to the military.

👍

I plan on living with a modified plan like this - not at home but maybe with a roommate and be very frugal about everything. Pretty much like how I'm living now! 😛

 

[jenfromdablock]

I don't get how people from NYU or USC ever pay it back.

 

[CoffeeDDS]

^By living like they're students until their 40's. DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT attend these schools UNLESS they are you're only option. Even then, maybe you should consider other careers that don't require such an insane, unreasonable investment.

 

[sgv]

get mommy's or daddy's accountant and ask them to calculate how you'll be living twenty years out if you don't have time worth spending a single day calcuating a risk that could affect 1/5 - 3/5 of your life span.

i kno this sounds crazy but deciding whether or not to go to ds is going to be as risky a decision as it is when deciding whether or not to go to an expensive liberal arts college for a useless degree...in reality it's no where near as extreme but considering that there are other careers out there without as much investment, you should treat it as such...

 

[Ferneezy]

I don't get how people from NYU or USC ever pay it back.

well, you started off doing it right by looking at the tuition/fees/'school specific' stuff first. you'll find that nyucd is comparable in those respects to any other private institution or state school (as an oos student). where they get you is the cost of living. the solution is simple: once acceptances start rolling in for you, choose the school where you can minimize your col.

no idea what to say about usc though. their education expenses alone average out to over $81k/yr over four years. that's crazy.

 

[BobbyBeavis]

Hi guys, first post here.

I am interested in NYU and already plan on joining the military. However, I do not think the monthly stipend is enough for the living rate of New York City. Is it the tuition of NYU, living in New York City, or plain out both? And is the cost of Dental School the only reason for the hatred against NYU?

Thanks

 

[sgv]

i'm beginning to question whether students going to these expensive schools know basic accounting...someone ought to send out a survey testing their financial know how and publish it...

 

[sgv]

Hi guys, first post here.

I am interested in NYU and already plan on joining the military. However, I do not think the monthly stipend is enough for the living rate of New York City. Is it the tuition of NYU, living in New York City, or plain out both? And is the cost of Dental School the only reason for the hatred against NYU?

Thanks

NYU is a good school aside from cost. for example, it would be awesome to be a faculty there at the receiving end of tuition but it would suck to be at the other end being the source of tuition...

 

[BobbyBeavis]

well, you started off doing it right by looking at the tuition/fees/'school specific' stuff first. you'll find that nyucd is comparable in those respects to any other private institution or state school (as an oos student). where they get you is the cost of living. the solution is simple: once acceptances start rolling in for you, choose the school where you can minimize your col.

no idea what to say about usc though. their education expenses alone average out to over $81k/yr over four years. that's crazy.

I guess we posted at the same time. One quick look on Craigslist for "cheap" apartments turn my thoughts on going to New York upside down.... unless I move into the Projects or something and take the bus. Ha ha

 

[jenfromdablock]

I don't get how the IBR payment program isn't more popular. You just pay 10% of your income for 20 years. Even if it's 50k a year, or 200k, it's still 10%

 

[LFA20]

join the military.

 

[NDPitch]

I don't get how the IBR payment program isn't more popular. You just pay 10% of your income for 20 years. Even if it's 50k a year, or 200k, it's still 10%

Sigh.

Because the money doesn't disappear, nor is it forgiven. No money ever just goes away. If you still owe 200 grand after your time is up, and you made 150 grand in that year, you pay taxes on an income of 350 grand (ouch). Plus, any other amount that the fed didn't get, you can bet they'll just get from the taxpayers somehow.

If people end up going to these schools that cost 400-500 grand, keep in mind you all signed a master promissory note in which you promised to pay it back.

IBR in my opinion is a bad program that wasn't even designed for health professionals. It's just another reason expensive schools use to back up their arguments that paying back loans is easy and that we'll be living like doctors in no time.

Also, I don't plan on taking any longer than 10 years to pay back student loans. Any longer and retirement starts getting pretty dicey.

 

[jenfromdablock]

Sigh.

Because the money doesn't disappear, nor is it forgiven. No money ever just goes away. If you still owe 200 grand after your time is up, and you made 150 grand in that year, you pay taxes on an income of 350 grand (ouch). Plus, any other amount that the fed didn't get, you can bet they'll just get from the taxpayers somehow.

If people end up going to these schools that cost 400-500 grand, keep in mind you all signed a master promissory note in which you promised to pay it back.

IBR in my opinion is a bad program that wasn't even designed for health professionals. It's just another reason expensive schools use to back up their arguments that paying back loans is easy and that we'll be living like doctors in no time.

Also, I don't plan on taking any longer than 10 years to pay back student loans. Any longer and retirement starts getting pretty dicey.

Paying a tax is on 200 grand left over is still a lot better than continuing to pay for another quarter-century.

10 year should be the acceptable time frame. Divide 400k, by 10, then by 12 (monthly) is about 3300 (but this doesn't including the yearly interest)

Go here, http://unbury.me/, then it shows you can finish in like 12 years.

 

[Illfavor]

I'd try 10 years of community health or teaching and hope to get it forgiven, but all that sorta ignores the basic issue of personal responsibility one should take.

 

[StumpMT]

Does everyone ending up with tons of dental school debt live their entire life single? You have to figure that if your spouse makes decent money that would help out tremendously.

 

[Glimmer1991]

Does everyone ending up with tons of dental school debt live their entire life single? You have to figure that if your spouse makes decent money that would help out tremendously.

👍 Definitely a part of the plan.

 

[Jungerr]

Does everyone ending up with tons of dental school debt live their entire life single? You have to figure that if your spouse makes decent money that would help out tremendously.

Or maybe part of your income will go towards paying off his/her student debt

 

[DentalElle]

Or maybe part of your income will go towards paying off his/her student debt

Spousal support is part of my plan as well. After the grand scheme of things (my dental school debt and his med school debt) we'd be in the hole for a lot of money, but we also have both (generous) incomes to support one cost of living. Add in living frugally for a while together and the situation may not be so bleak.

being optimistic of course. 🙂

 

[Glimmer1991]

Spousal support is part of my plan as well. After the grand scheme of things (my dental school debt and his med school debt) we'd be in the hole for a lot of money, but we also have both (generous) incomes to support one cost of living. Add in living frugally for a while together and the situation may not be so bleak.

being optimistic of course. 🙂

LOL, no optimism needed. I'm sure you guys won't have any money problems. In 10-15 years, your biggest problem will be deciding which house on the lake you want to purchase... 😉 😀

My future husband is going to law school and his income, combined with mine, will hopefully allow us to pay off my school loans quickly. That's the plan, at least! I'll happily live frugally for a while. Plus, he's from a family of lawyers, so luckily, he already has career prospects lined up... I know that otherwise, law can sort of be a scary field to go into! We're fortunate.

Ah, the future. Things do seem bleak and kind of scary now, but we're all hard workers, and things will work out!

 

[DentalElle]

LOL, no optimism needed. I'm sure you guys won't have any money problems. In 10-15 years, your biggest problem will be deciding which house on the lake you want to purchase... 😉 😀

My future husband is going to law school and his income, combined with mine, will hopefully allow us to pay off my school loans quickly. That's the plan, at least! I'll happily live frugally for a while. Plus, he's from a family of lawyers, so luckily, he already has career prospects lined up... I know that otherwise, law can sort of be a scary field to go into! We're fortunate.

Ah, the future. Things do seem bleak and kind of scary now, but we're all hard workers, and things will work out!

HA! so true!

I must admit that the prospect of "marrying into" (for lack of a better term) so much financial stability makes the debt of dental school a lot less intimidating. 😎

 

[sacapuntas]

Sigh.

Because the money doesn't disappear, nor is it forgiven. No money ever just goes away. If you still owe 200 grand after your time is up, and you made 150 grand in that year, you pay taxes on an income of 350 grand (ouch). Plus, any other amount that the fed didn't get, you can bet they'll just get from the taxpayers somehow.

If people end up going to these schools that cost 400-500 grand, keep in mind you all signed a master promissory note in which you promised to pay it back.

IBR in my opinion is a bad program that wasn't even designed for health professionals. It's just another reason expensive schools use to back up their arguments that paying back loans is easy and that we'll be living like doctors in no time.

Also, I don't plan on taking any longer than 10 years to pay back student loans. Any longer and retirement starts getting pretty dicey.

In my opinion its foolish to completely discard IBR or other plans similar to them. In my opinion, your first few years out of school you should take the plan with the lowest monthly payment possible, accumulate some cash/capital, max a retirement plan, and put your money to work for you as soon as you can (put yourself in position to own a practice or two).

Then, a few years down the road you can tackle your loans with a much higher income.

Also, even if you never do anything besides work as an associate and pay taxes on your loan forgiveness this is still much cheaper than paying off all your loans from a dollar amount paid back standpoint. (I am not advocating someone is wise to do this, but it may make sense when you actually look at the $$).

 

[blankman321]

Does everyone ending up with tons of dental school debt live their entire life single? You have to figure that if your spouse makes decent money that would help out tremendously.

I asked a somewhat similar question whether having huge debt hurts your chances of getting married, since your spouse who may be working doesnt like to have a burden that they share with as well. but marry into another person who has debt but also great income potential may either help or make it worse. your thoughts?

 

[gn4]

I asked a somewhat similar question whether having huge debt hurts your chances of getting married, since your spouse who may be working doesnt like to have a burden that they share with as well. but marry into another person who has debt but also great income potential may either help or make it worse. your thoughts?

I don't think it will make it worse. I think in the long run, both would benefit from it. The combined income will help. My gf is applying to medschool and we both talked about it. You both know to be frugal. It will help.

 

[Glimmer1991]

I asked a somewhat similar question whether having huge debt hurts your chances of getting married, since your spouse who may be working doesnt like to have a burden that they share with as well. but marry into another person who has debt but also great income potential may either help or make it worse. your thoughts?

Any person who won't marry you because of your debt from dental school is clearly not the right person to marry. Okay, so if you have tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt racked up from compulsively shopping the semi-annual sale at Victoria's Secret, then yes, that seems like pretty good grounds on which to consider someone too high of a risk for marriage. But dental school? No. Quite frankly, they'd be sort of crazy not to realize your earning potential! 🙂

My boyfriend will not have any debt when he graduates from law school and is more than happy to help me pay mine off. We're just both excited that we'll be able to pay my debts off much quicker because he won't have to make any loan payments of his own. I guess that's what love is, though. Mine=yours.

Debt, if you manage it correctly, should not cripple your entire life. My boyfriend and I plan on aggressively paying off my student loans for our first few years out of school. Even before this, though, I plan on minimizing my debt as much as possible by hopefully attending a monetarily feasible school. I know that I'll have to take out more loans to buy a practice at some point, but that will come when my income is more stable and we have saved up. I think we will be able to live very well once we make it past those first few years, even if we do have other loans taken out for my practice, our house, etc.

I don't think it will make it worse. I think in the long run, both would benefit from it. The combined income will help. My gf is applying to medschool and we both talked about it. You both know to be frugal. It will help.

I agree. Sure, those loan payments will seem outrageous when you first graduate, but you will both be raking in killer incomes. You both have such high earning potential, and after a few years of really trying to pay off those loans, things will be much smoother. I really don't think you guys will have to be frugal for *that* long.

The thought of not being a broke college student is so nice, hah! It just seems like that day will NEVER come.

 

[SherrifMcLawdog]

Paying a tax is on 200 grand left over is still a lot better than continuing to pay for another quarter-century.

10 year should be the acceptable time frame. Divide 400k, by 10, then by 12 (monthly) is about 3300 (but this doesn't including the yearly interest)

Go here, http://unbury.me/, then it shows you can finish in like 12 years.

Your math is way off. Monthly payment for 10 year repayment on 400k is over $5000. Comes out to be around $650k with interest. The 25 year repayment is around $3k a month and totals around $900k.

 

[jenfromdablock]

Your math is way off. Monthly payment for 10 year repayment on 400k is over $5000. Comes out to be around $650k with interest. The 25 year repayment is around $3k a month and totals around $900k.

So then which is better? I'm freaking out. How do we pay this pay back? What's the average "pay back" time frame?

 

[Illfavor]

I'd like to work for the NHSC or IHS when I get out. It will let me help an underserved community and allow me to completely pay off students loans in 3 years. Certainly something to consider, and not all the locations are in the boonies 😀

 

[UCSFx2017]

So then which is better? I'm freaking out. How do we pay this pay back? What's the average "pay back" time frame?

This is a very recent problem. Tuition only recently began skyrocketing and the new IBR (20-years at 10% with forgiven amount taxed) was released maybe a year ago so there's not going to be anyone who graduated with astronomical debt in 1993 and just finished their IBR twenty years later in 2013. It's crazy to imagine that one would make a decision to be in debt for a duration that is about as long as one has been alive at the time of the decision.

This is an old spreadsheet I made for USC students back when interest rate was 6.8-7.9%: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...f-attendance-114k.889212/page-2#post-14250652

 

[y3nd0]

This is a very recent problem. Tuition only recently began skyrocketing and the new IBR (20-years at 10% with forgiven amount taxed) was released maybe a year ago so there's not going to be anyone who graduated with astronomical debt in 1993 and just finished their IBR twenty years later in 2013. It's crazy to imagine that one would make a decision to be in debt for a duration that is about as long as one has been alive at the time of the decision.

This is an old spreadsheet I made for USC students back when interest rate was 6.8-7.9%: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...f-attendance-114k.889212/page-2#post-14250652

Those are some scurry numbers comin' from USC. Going to get scurrier with time.

 

[gn4]

I'd like to work for the NHSC or IHS when I get out. It will let me help an underserved community and allow me to completely pay off students loans in 3 years. Certainly something to consider, and not all the locations are in the boonies 😀

can you still specialize if you do NHSC?

 

[Ferneezy]

can you still specialize if you do NHSC?

from reading the nhsc thread, if you take the scholarship which effectively absolves you of dentschool debt (with associated payback similar to the military route) it is highly frowned upon or even forbidden. essentially, during the payback portion they want primary care providers at their designated clinics.

nothing stopping you from pursuing a specialty after you've done your payback though.

 

[Illfavor]

can you still specialize if you do NHSC?

Well, if you do the NHSC scholarship then I don't think so. I have zero plans to specialize. I was talking about working at a FQHC after graduation. $30,000/yr in loan repayment, plus ~90-130K salary, CE, 401k, insurance, 1 month off a year, etc.

 

[jenfromdablock]

This is a very recent problem. Tuition only recently began skyrocketing and the new IBR (20-years at 10% with forgiven amount taxed) was released maybe a year ago so there's not going to be anyone who graduated with astronomical debt in 1993 and just finished their IBR twenty years later in 2013. It's crazy to imagine that one would make a decision to be in debt for a duration that is about as long as one has been alive at the time of the decision.

This is an old spreadsheet I made for USC students back when interest rate was 6.8-7.9%: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...f-attendance-114k.889212/page-2#post-14250652

So IBR helps us out right? 10% of income for 20 years isn't so bad. But regardless, before IBR, what was the normal, average route to paying back $350,000+ in loans?

 

[sgv]

So IBR helps us out right? 10% of income for 20 years isn't so bad. But regardless, before IBR, what was the normal, average route to paying back $350,000+ in loans?

You ain't suppposed to use IBR for loans this big. You get taxed on whatever was forgiven. You're not supposed to use IBR for entire +20 years. Physicians and dentists use this for when they just graduated, are in residency, or starting out in private practice. IBR is used temporarily. Paying taxes on $XXX,XXX on top of your salary is going to suck. There's no getting out of this....

The type of IBR you want is the one for teachers. http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loan...tion/charts/public-service#what-is-the-public NO TAX, BRUH!

 

[jenfromdablock]

So then what do most people do when they're starting to pay it all back? How much is the monthly payment?

If you go to www.unbury.me, you'll need like 4500 a month to pay it back in about 20 years given the interest rate.

 

[NDPitch]

So then what do most people do when they're starting to pay it all back? How much is the monthly payment?

If you go to www.unbury.me, you'll need like 4500 a month to pay it back in about 20 years given the interest rate.

That's the point a lot of people are getting at here. You make it seem like there HAS to be a way to pay it off, simply because the school is charging that much money. There doesn't have to be a way to pay it back. Dental schools don't care what your repayment schedule is. They get the money up front from the loan. I strongly believe that there is a limit where there is NOT a way you can pay it back. And 400k+ is approaching that point in my opinion. You can pay it back, but you'll be pretty broke for quite some time. People that shell out 400k or more for dental school better like dentistry on its own, because they won't be "living like a doctor" any time soon.


PS - that website is awful. Use a better calculator for more accurate estimates. This can show you amortization schedules by adding extra amounts to your monthly payment.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/college-planning/loan-calculator.aspx