Debt

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That's the point a lot of people are getting at here. You make it seem like there HAS to be a way to pay it off, simply because the school is charging that much money. There doesn't have to be a way to pay it back. Dental schools don't care what your repayment schedule is. They get the money up front from the loan. I strongly believe that there is a limit where there is NOT a way you can pay it back. And 400k+ is approaching that point in my opinion. You can pay it back, but you'll be pretty broke for quite some time. People that shell out 400k or more for dental school better like dentistry on its own, because they won't be "living like a doctor" any time soon.


PS - that website is awful. Use a better calculator for more accurate estimates. This can show you amortization schedules by adding extra amounts to your monthly payment.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/college-planning/loan-calculator.aspx


But I'm not the only one....thousands of people are attending private schools...NYU...USC...LECOM...LLU.....Midwestern...I could go on and on.

My point is....obviously no dentist has ever defaulted on their own....so what is the best way to back these loans?

I was thinking of maybe living extremely frugally for about 2 years and paying off about $100,000 in loans.
 
Well, if you do the NHSC scholarship then I don't think so. I have zero plans to specialize. I was talking about working at a FQHC after graduation. $30,000/yr in loan repayment, plus ~90-130K salary, CE, 401k, insurance, 1 month off a year, etc.


This 30k/year has been drastically cut back. People are only getting 5k-15k this year and unless the FQHC score is 15+, many people aren't getting any reimbursement. Don't plan on this even existing by the time you graduate unless something drastically changes with funding. You get no guarantees, and there seems to be some randomness on who is even reimbursed. You basically need to be OK with the compensation besides loan repayment, apply, wait 10+ months and cross your fingers they choose you.
 
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You ain't suppposed to use IBR for loans this big. You get taxed on whatever was forgiven. You're not supposed to use IBR for entire +20 years. Physicians and dentists use this for when they just graduated, are in residency, or starting out in private practice. IBR is used temporarily. Paying taxes on $XXX,XXX on top of your salary is going to suck. There's no getting out of this....

The type of IBR you want is the one for teachers. http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loan...tion/charts/public-service#what-is-the-public NO TAX, BRUH!


The no tax IBR also exists for dental professionals. You get your loan forgiven tax free after 10 years of IBR payments if you work in a qualified public health site.

Also, if you run the numbers, someone who is an associate making less than 175k a year for 20 years is likely better off doing IBR payments for 20 years and paying tax on the forgiven amount in year 21. This might work well for someone that never wants to be their own boss and make more than the max allowable income for IBR repayment.
 
This 30k/year has been drastically cut back. People are only getting 5k-15k this year and unless the FQHC score is 15+, many people aren't getting any reimbursement. Don't plan on this even existing by the time you graduate unless something drastically changes with funding. You get no guarantees, and there seems to be some randomness on who is even reimbursed. You basically need to be OK with the compensation besides loan repayment, apply, wait 10+ months and cross your fingers they choose you. This amount is also taxed, so even if you get 25k, you are only getting about 18k to put towards your debt.
The cutbacks are really affecting folks in the 4-6th years of LRP. I don't hope to reach that. From what I've seen, there are quite a few places with 15+ FQHC scores, especially where I'm hoping to practice. I understand the funding issues, so I'm not putting all my eggs in this basket AT ALL, but it's something I'm actively considering. And the NHSC loan repayment is not taxed...whoever told you that is simply wrong.
 
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I haven't heard much about the LRP being drastically cut back, and I've been talking to a few docs currently getting it. From what I've seen, there are quite a few places with 15+ FQHC scores, especially where I'm hoping to practice. I understand the funding issues, so I'm not putting all my eggs in this basket, but it's something I'm actively considering. And the NHSC loan repayment is not taxed...whoever told you that is simply wrong.

FUnding-Chart-NHSC-e1378923642276.jpg





and http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/currentmembers/loanrepaymentrecipients/continuation/index.html (notice the lower funding, if the money is there at all)


and here is a good thread besides some political bickering towards the end: http://www.dentaltown.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=152&t=212573&pg=2

And you are probably right about the tax free LRP, I may be getting my programs mixed up.
 
FUnding-Chart-NHSC-e1378923642276.jpg





and http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/currentmembers/loanrepaymentrecipients/continuation/index.html (notice the lower funding, if the money is there at all)


and here is a good thread besides some political bickering towards the end: http://www.dentaltown.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=152&t=212573&pg=2

And you are probably right about the tax free LRP, I may be getting my programs mixed up.
Yup, I'm up to date on all of these issues, and I'm a townie member as well 😀 I don't plan on relying on it, but as it stands, even with cutbacks, 2-3 years of LRP would put be at $0 debt. Now, this can also be done (perhaps more reliably( in an associateship as well, but I'm just keeping all my options open. Who knows what happens in 2015?
 
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Yup, I'm up to date on all of these issues, and I'm a townie member as well 😀 I don't plan on relying on it, but as it stands, even with cutbacks, 2-3 years of LRP would put be at $0 debt. Now, this can also be done (perhaps more reliably( in an associateship as well, but I'm just keeping all my options open. Who knows what happens in 2015?


Good, I have similar plans. I will utilize it if its still there. More than anything I wanted more info available to SDNers who may stumble on this thread.

Why don't you apply for the NHSC scholarship out of curiosity? Your insanely low TX tuition?
 
Good, I have similar plans. I will utilize it if its still there. More than anything I wanted more info available to SDNers who may stumble on this thread.

Why don't you apply for the NHSC scholarship out of curiosity?
Oh, I will be for certain. It's just a few months away, and I'm not sure how likely I am to get it. It's a real longshot for anybody, and funding issues will probably make it even less likely. I'm the kind of guy who wants to pay off his debt entirely within 3-5yrs of walking so I can buy a practice without having a huge note already over my head. With some continued frugality, that will be possible.
 
Oh, I will be for certain. It's just a few months away, and I'm not sure how likely I am to get it. It's a real longshot for anybody, and funding issues will probably make it even less likely. I'm the kind of guy who wants to pay off his debt entirely within 3-5yrs of walking so I can buy a practice without having a huge note already over my head. With some continued frugality, that will be possible.

You think it's possible to pay off all your debts within 3-5 years after graduating from a private dental school?
 
You think it's possible to pay off all your debts within 3-5 years after graduating from a private dental school?
My dental education will cost about 1/4 of that from say, BU or USC. I have a wife to provide our living expenses, so I'll be paying off much less than most folks. My guess is the maximum a single person would be able to pay off each year is around 50k, living very frugally. So for USC, that would be more like 10 years. Married folks can add a pretty decent sum to that if their spouses work. If I went to a $400,000 school, I'd do a military scholarship. No way otherwise.
 
if like >$75,000/year needs to go to paying off student loans and taxes, add how much you need to survive, and then you should get how much you need to make every year to pay off dental school in ten years. our average salary for 2012 was like $163,000 for all dentists. if you want to make a big change and follow the money, bls.org says that new hampshire, vermont, delaware, washington, and north dakota make the highest salary. dang son, the s**t we end up doing for money...you want live in x but money says you gotta live in y. but we got it pretty darn good compared to other people.
 
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if I had that much debt, I wouldn't mind living in North Dakota..haha..I hear it's beautiful this time of year. haha. Washington is really not that bad a state though.
 
My dental education will cost about 1/4 of that from say, BU or USC. I have a wife to provide our living expenses, so I'll be paying off much less than most folks. My guess is the maximum a single person would be able to pay off each year is around 50k, living very frugally. So for USC, that would be more like 10 years. Married folks can add a pretty decent sum to that if their spouses work. If I went to a $400,000 school, I'd do a military scholarship. No way otherwise.

Well put yourself in my shoes....what would you do? I'm looking at that much debt.
 
Well put yourself in my shoes....what would you do? I'm looking at that much debt.
I'd try and get the military to pay for it. Otherwise I'd plan on entering a loan repayment program for about 5 years, apply for the NHSC scholarship, or shoot for the 10 year public service forgiveness plan. For me, 10 years is the number. I'm already 25. I'd like to be student loan free and in my practice by 35.
 
Well put yourself in my shoes....what would you do? I'm looking at that much debt.
I would do military, NHSC, work hard and live frugal, or teach for a decade and use teacher's IBR. In that order of preference.

It don't make sense that you're asking how you'll pay for dental school after a whole year since you got in...it's like the rest of 'murica, buy now with credit, worry about it later and get fugged up...
 
I'd try and get the military to pay for it. Otherwise I'd plan on entering a loan repayment program for about 5 years, apply for the NHSC scholarship, or shoot for the 10 year public service forgiveness plan. For me, 10 years is the number. I'm already 25. I'd like to be student loan free and in my practice by 35.

I'm 25 now and I'm just about to start dental school. I'll be out when I'm 29.....so for me, the number is 39.
 
I'd try and get the military to pay for it. Otherwise I'd plan on entering a loan repayment program for about 5 years, apply for the NHSC scholarship, or shoot for the 10 year public service forgiveness plan. For me, 10 years is the number. I'm already 25. I'd like to be student loan free and in my practice by 35.

are you saying you don't want to have your own practice until you're free of edu debt?

i'm different, it's probably imperative that i start my own gig as soon as possible if i want to end up on the right side of retirement.
 
I'm 25 now and I'm just about to start dental school. I'll be out when I'm 29.....so for me, the number is 39.
Fair enough. As long as we're happy...
are you saying you don't want to have your own practice until you're free of edu debt?

i'm different, it's probably imperative that i start my own gig as soon as possible if i want to end up on the right side of retirement.
I do too, but I want to get my education loans down to a very manageable spot before I do. I imagine after 2-3 years I'll really be wanting to start. I'm pretty fickle. Some days I think I'll associate for 2 years, pay down about half my loans and buy a practice, others I think about starting fresh with no debt. I won't know for sure till I'm a D3/D4 I imagine. Anyhow, my debt load will not be extreme, so I should have lots of options. It's 4-5 years from now, so who really knows? 😉
 
I know the general concesus is to apply for some sort of scholarship if your education is going to cost you close to 400k. I'm applying for the HPSP in order to attend my number one choice which is UofL. OOS it runs about 302k. If I don't recieve the scholarship I will go to my state school which will cost about 210k. My two questions are is ~90k that much of a difference if your are still "only" paying around 300k? And is 210k able to be paid off in around 5-7 years? I'm 24 and would like to also be debt free in around 10 years.

Edit: I went to a pretty expensive private school for undergrad and have agreed to pay my parents back 50k, so I am factoring this into my decision as well.
 
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I know the general concesus is to apply for some sort of scholarship if your education is going to cost you close to 400k. I'm applying for the HPSP in order to attend my number one choice which is UofL. OOS it runs about 302k. If I don't recieve the scholarship I will go to my state school which will cost about 210k. My two questions are is ~90k that much of a difference if your are still "only" paying around 300k? And is 210k able to be paid off in around 5-7 years? I'm 24 and would like to also be debt free in around 10 years.
You can calculate all this yourself but $90,000.00 difference is prob gonna be $180,000.00 after 10 years...$300,000.00 is going to be a lot more money than it already is at that interest rate...how is $300,000.00 not scarying you?

I think $210,000.00 is average debt for state school according to ada
 
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IBR seems like the only solution. As long as you can work for a public or non-profit institution afterwards for 10 years.
 
10 year forgiveness is an attractive sounding option to most. A lot of dentists describe/experience burnout in FQHCs, though.
I don't think there is a trick to getting out of student loans, really. You pay for it in one way or another it seems.
 
You can calculate all this yourself but $90,000.00 difference is prob gonna end up being $180,000.00 after 10 years...$300,000.00 is going to be a lot more money than it already is at that interest rate...how is $300,000.00 not scarying you?

I think $210,000.00 is average debt according to ada

No it definitely does, that's why without HPSP I have decided to attend my state school. I just want to make sure I am actually making a good financial decision. The only downside is my state school isn't in the best city and my parents are pushing for UofL. So much that they have offered to split the difference and pay 45k of the tuition. But I'd rather not have them contribute after paying so much for my undergrad.
 
No it definitely does, that's why without HPSP I have decided to attend my state school. I just want to make sure I am actually making a good financial decision. The only downside is my state school isn't in the best city and my parents are pushing for UofL. So much that they have offered to split the difference and pay 45k of the tuition. But I'd rather not have them contribute after paying so much for my undergrad.
if everything goes as planned, you'll need to hear back from hpsp before your deposit's time runs out
 
I know the general concesus is to apply for some sort of scholarship if your education is going to cost you close to 400k. I'm applying for the HPSP in order to attend my number one choice which is UofL. OOS it runs about 302k. If I don't recieve the scholarship I will go to my state school which will cost about 210k. My two questions are is ~90k that much of a difference if your are still "only" paying around 300k? And is 210k able to be paid off in around 5-7 years? I'm 24 and would like to also be debt free in around 10 years.

Edit: I went to a pretty expensive private school for undergrad and have agreed to pay my parents back 50k, so I am factoring this into my decision as well.
You can pay off 210 in 4-5 years living cheap.
 
I know the general concesus is to apply for some sort of scholarship if your education is going to cost you close to 400k. I'm applying for the HPSP in order to attend my number one choice which is UofL. OOS it runs about 302k. If I don't recieve the scholarship I will go to my state school which will cost about 210k. My two questions are is ~90k that much of a difference if your are still "only" paying around 300k? And is 210k able to be paid off in around 5-7 years? I'm 24 and would like to also be debt free in around 10 years.

Edit: I went to a pretty expensive private school for undergrad and have agreed to pay my parents back 50k, so I am factoring this into my decision as well.

UofL OOS total w/o living expenses is $266k. If you can find a way to trim your living expenses, you might be able to bring it down a little.
 
if everything goes as planned, you'll need to hear back from hpsp before your deposit's time runs out

Yes, I should be complete for the January board meeting. If I haven't heard by March I will begin the NHSC app process when it opens up.
 
UofL OOS total w/o living expenses is $266k. If you can find a way to trim your living expenses, you might be able to bring it down a little.
I will certainly be trying to do this regardless but I spoke with financial aid and they said their firgures were usually spot on for the majority of students since col is pretty low in lousiville.
 
Yooou know, even after you get all your student loans paid off, if you're interested in private practice, you'll probably have lots more debt. I have no idea how much it costs to start a practice, but to buy one can be $1,000,000 by itself. It's goooonna be a bumpy ride!
 
Yooou know, even after you get all your student loans paid off, if you're interested in private practice, you'll probably have lots more debt. I have no idea how much it costs to start a practice, but to buy one can be $1,000,000 by itself. It's goooonna be a bumpy ride!
Sure, but a 30 year note on a $300,000 practice grossing $500k, you taking home $200k is much more palatable. Folks who are persistent and a little lucky really hit their stride 5-15 years out of school. I have talked to a few fairly recent grads who have paid off their school and practice within 15 years.
 
Sure, but a 30 year note on a $300,000 practice grossing $500k, you taking home $200k is much more palatable. Folks who are persistent and a little lucky really hit their stride 5-15 years out of school. I have talked to a few fairly recent grads who have paid off their school and practice within 15 years.

I may end up pm-ing you with a couple questions in the near future. I've seen your other posts and you seem to have some great insight as well a thoroughly thought out plan which seems to be the key. Good for you.
 
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I may end up pm-ing you with a couple questions in the near future. I've seen your other posts and you seem to have some great insight as well a thoroughly thought out plan which seems to be the key. Good for you.
I agree. He seems to be on top of this stuff. I'm kinda clueless myself. Or I'll just pick his brain in dental school.
 
I may end up pm-ing you with a couple questions in the near future. I've seen your other posts and you seem to have some great insight as well a thoroughly thought out plan which seems to be the key. Good for you.
Haha, sure. I had to think about all this stuff before deciding to change careers. It's difficult to accept that "wanting" to do something isn't always enough. It really does have to make financial sense. If you're not already on there, dentaltown.com. You get to watch seasoned dentists dole out free advice. Advice that we are years away from understanding, but, you get to see how a succesful dentist thinks. We are all "in", and we don't know jack$h-eye-T!
I agree. He seems to be on top of this stuff. I'm kinda clueless myself. Or I'll just pick his brain in dental school.
Oh my...
 
I agree. He seems to be on top of this stuff. I'm kinda clueless myself. Or I'll just pick his brain in dental school.

I see you have made a decision...and it isn't UTHSC haha
 
I see you have made a decision...and it isn't UTHSC haha
haha. yea..Nothing against UTHSC, I just really am not too enamored with Memphis. The school is great though.
 
10 year forgiveness is an attractive sounding option to most. A lot of dentists describe/experience burnout in FQHCs, though.
I don't think there is a trick to getting out of student loans, really. You pay for it in one way or another it seems.

That is only applicable if you serve the underserved. You want to do 10 years of that? You'll be in your mid to late 30's
 
No it definitely does, that's why without HPSP I have decided to attend my state school. I just want to make sure I am actually making a good financial decision. The only downside is my state school isn't in the best city and my parents are pushing for UofL. So much that they have offered to split the difference and pay 45k of the tuition. But I'd rather not have them contribute after paying so much for my undergrad.

Well, if your parents are willing to help out but you don't want a hand-out, you could see if they would loan you the money at a lower interest rate than the standard 6-8%. The interest is what really kills you over the life of a loan. In my opinion, the higher tuition amount is totally manageable if you have a lower interest rate.
 
That is only applicable if you serve the underserved. You want to do 10 years of that? You'll be in your mid to late 30's
what is the definition of "underserved" here? What if you had your own practice in a bigger place, but also worked in another dentist's practice in an underserved area, would that count?
 
what is the definition of "underserved" here? What if you had your own practice in a bigger place, but also worked in another dentist's practice in an underserved area, would that count?

The federally qualified underserved sites are typically determined and assigned a number by the government. Lots of prisons and podunk areas, from what I hear. I don't believe you actually have to serve at one of these site to get PSLF though (not 100% on this). I believe that any not for profit facility would qualify. Most hospitals or the VA would work. I don't believe that you could get away with working full time at a private office and gettting PSLF on the side, but I could be wrong.
 
The federally qualified underserved sites are typically determined and assigned a number by the government. Lots of prisons and podunk areas, from what I hear. I don't believe you actually have to serve at one of these site to get PSLF though (not 100% on this). I believe that any not for profit facility would qualify. Most hospitals or the VA would work. I don't believe that you could get away with working full time at a private office and gettting PSLF on the side, but I could be wrong.

Not to mention, it's a 10 year commitment! That's a lot. I'd rather just get the NHSC scholarship and commit 4 years.
 
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