Definitely don't stand a chance for DO school. Considering other career options....

MedicalCareerGirl32 · Oct 31, 2014

Hello everyone! I am new to the Student Doctor Network Community. I went to undergrad 8 years ago back in 2006. I was supposed to graduate in 2004, but due to severe clinical depression I took a leave of absence and graduated in 2006. Currently, I am under the care of a psychiatrist and am taking antidepressants to help me with my depression. I have always wanted to be a doctor since I was in middle school. I remember when I was enrolled in the Summer Reading Program when I was in the fifth grade, I was very much interested in science books geared towards younger students in explaining the human body. I also have many Medical Encyclopedias and medical books in my house which I enjoy reading, but due to depression, have lost the motivation/desire to get into.

Anyway, let me cut to the chase. Since I was very clinically depressed in undergrad (sleeping all the time, missing classes, etc.), my science gpa is horrible. I graduated with a bachelor's degree in psychology with a 3.066 gpa (pretty horrible). My science gpa is below a 3.0. Here are the science classes I took and my grades (mostly Cs):

General Biology I: C
General Biology II: C+
General Chemistry I: C+
General Chemistry II: C
Calculus I: B+
Calculus II: B
Genetics: C
Human Physiology: C+
General Physics I: B
General Physics II: (Repeated) B+
Organic Chemistry I: (Repeated) D
Organic Chemistry II: Did not take it

So, as you can see my science GPA is no good at all and I definitely don't stand a chance at an osteopathic school, and all allopathic schools. I guess it's too late for me now, right? I should probably look at a different career. However, I was severely depressed throughout undergrad and was seeing a psychiatrist while I was in school. I pretty much didn't put in the effort to get better grades. Those grades are with little studying and effort due to depression. Should I just give up on my dream of being a doctor and look at another health care career? Or is there a chance for me to redeem myself? Thanks. Hope someone answers soon because now at 32 years of age, I think my dreams of being a doctor are too late and pretty much over.

ProudMD · Oct 31, 2014

Hey there

I think the top priority for you right now is to make sure that whatever mental issues you had in the past are completely behind you. Until you are stable and healthy enough to continue on, it is pointless to consider medicine as a career.

When you are truly ready to begin your premedical studies (and you have to start over from scratch), I would retake all the above prereqs and shoot for As and Bs. In addition, I would strongly recommend taking several additional upper division courses (and do well) in order to prove to ADCOMS that you have what it takes to succeed. Fortunately for you, DO medical schools allow for grade replacement, so if you repeat all the prereqs above and get As in all of them, you'll have a 4.0 sGPA.

After you fix your grades, you'll need to study for the new MCAT and do well. You don't need to score in the top percentiles for DO schools, but you definitely need to score above the median. Aim for a 28+ (or whatever the equivalent is for the new MCAT).

Finally, do you have any medically-related ECs right now? I assume that you aware of the ECs that you need to have, and I would start working on those ASAP.

DO schools reward reinvention, and it is pretty normal for people to start their medical education in their mid/late 30s. However, you have a long way to go, and before you can do anything, you need to have your health issues under control. Have faith in yourself - you definitely still have a good chance to become a physician!

@Goro is the expert on this issue. Consult with him. Best of luck!

MedicalCareerGirl32 · Oct 31, 2014

Thank you so much for your input. You don't know how much better I feel that I still have a chance at becoming a doctor. Where do you recommend I take my pre-reqs and upper division science courses? Would community college count or would it be looked down on? Money is definitely an issue, but I will try to find a way to pay for classes if I have to take it at a university as a non-matriculated student. As far as ECs are concerned, I tutor an ESL student at the library every Saturday, helping her with her English (she is Spanish speaking), and I recently volunteered in the Child Life Department of the Hospital for 8 months, playing games and toys in the children's playroom to keep them company. I very much enjoyed it. I want to do more (not only for med school, but because I enjoy volunteering as well), so I need ideas what else I can do. I already have the ExamCrackers MCAT series (6th edition), so studying for the MCATs shouldn't be a problem. I also plan on tutoring elementary students who struggle with classes in the school system. I don't know if that's really a medically related EC, but I defintely do enjoy tutoring both kids and ESL students.

I do sometimes feel I am too old for medical school. Since I am interested in both internal medicine and psychiatry (especially after having suffered from clinical depression myself), I worry about finishing medicine in my 40s. To me, that's so old. I also worry about my marriage life suffering and I still don't have kids and I'm working on achieving that, so that's also something to think about. I've had a serious talk with my husband about medical school, and he is worried he will never see me during med school and residency. I wonder, if other people are able to do it, why can't we? I do wish I could go back to my 20s and apply to medical school. It seems like being around 25-26 would be an ideal age for medical school, but I guess everyone has regrets in life. All we can do, is focus on bettering ourselves today.

I am working on improving my mental health (through antidepressants), and once I start feeling better, I will definitely aim at getting As in my pre-reqs and upper division science courses. What upper division science courses in particular would you recommend?

Anyway, you have been so helpful and I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and best of luck in your medical school endeavors!

Goro · Oct 31, 2014

Concur 100% with my young colleague.

Retake all F/D/C science coursework, and let grade replacement do its magic.
Then ace the MCAT. In te mean time, start research osteopathy, do some shadowing, and get your ECs.

And enter this path eyes wide open. Medical school is a crucible, and I've seen it break healthy students. Make sure your psychiatrist is fully on board with this.

ProudMD said:
Hey there

I think the top priority for you right now is to make sure that whatever mental issues you had in the past are completely behind you. Until you are stable and healthy enough to continue on, it is pointless to consider medicine as a career.

When you are truly ready to begin your premedical studies (and you have to start over from scratch), I would retake all the above prereqs and shoot for As and Bs. In addition, I would strongly recommend taking several additional upper division courses (and do well) in order to prove to ADCOMS that you have what it takes to succeed. Fortunately for you, DO medical schools allow for grade replacement, so if you repeat all the prereqs above and get As in all of them, you'll have a 4.0 sGPA.

After you fix your grades, you'll need to study for the new MCAT and do well. You don't need to score in the top percentiles for DO schools, but you definitely need to score above the median. Aim for a 28+ (or whatever the equivalent is for the new MCAT).

Finally, do you have any medically-related ECs right now? I assume that you aware of the ECs that you need to have, and I would start working on those ASAP.

DO schools reward reinvention, and it is pretty normal for people to start their medical education in their mid/late 30s. However, you have a long way to go, and before you can do anything, you need to have your health issues under control. Have faith in yourself - you definitely still have a good chance to become a physician!

@Goro is the expert on this issue. Consult with him. Best of luck!

doapplicant2015 · Oct 31, 2014

Agree with the above and just know that I started with a significantly lower GPA two years ago and am currently sitting with an acceptance and three other interviews right now. Retake the prereqs and aim for an A in every one of them. In addition to those, you will be taking the new MCAT so find a biochem course to take. Since you were a psych major I'm assuming you have all the psych and sociology requirements for the MCAT.

All is not even close to lost grade wise. Find a local DO to shadow and get as much time with him/her as you can. You have just as good of a shot as anyone, make sure your health is in order and you're ready to do this. Be sure to update us with your progress! Best of luck to you

baxt1412 · Oct 31, 2014

i applaud you for seeking help, not only with your mental health but also with your journey to whatever career you decide to pursue.

ProudMD · Oct 31, 2014

MedicalCareerGirl32 said:
Thank you so much for your input. You don't know how much better I feel that I still have a chance at becoming a doctor. Where do you recommend I take my pre-reqs and upper division science courses? Would community college count or would it be looked down on? Money is definitely an issue, but I will try to find a way to pay for classes if I have to take it at a university as a non-matriculated student. As far as ECs are concerned, I tutor an ESL student at the library every Saturday, helping her with her English (she is Spanish speaking), and I recently volunteered in the Child Life Department of the Hospital for 8 months, playing games and toys in the children's playroom to keep them company. I very much enjoyed it. I want to do more (not only for med school, but because I enjoy volunteering as well), so I need ideas what else I can do. I already have the ExamCrackers MCAT series (6th edition), so studying for the MCATs shouldn't be a problem. I also plan on tutoring elementary students who struggle with classes in the school system. I don't know if that's really a medically related EC, but I defintely do enjoy tutoring both kids and ESL students.

I do sometimes feel I am too old for medical school. Since I am interested in both internal medicine and psychiatry (especially after having suffered from clinical depression myself), I worry about finishing medicine in my 40s. To me, that's so old. I also worry about my marriage life suffering and I still don't have kids and I'm working on achieving that, so that's also something to think about. I've had a serious talk with my husband about medical school, and he is worried he will never see me during med school and residency. I wonder, if other people are able to do it, why can't we? I do wish I could go back to my 20s and apply to medical school. It seems like being around 25-26 would be an ideal age for medical school, but I guess everyone has regrets in life. All we can do, is focus on bettering ourselves today.

I am working on improving my mental health (through antidepressants), and once I start feeling better, I will definitely aim at getting As in my pre-reqs and upper division science courses. What upper division science courses in particular would you recommend?

Anyway, you have been so helpful and I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and best of luck in your medical school endeavors!

First, let's talk about classes. Looking at your class list, you don't need to retake physics at all, since you already have Bs and above. I would retake Bio 1 and 2, Gen Chem 1 and 2, O-Chem 1 and 2, and 3 additional upper-division courses. For DO schools, community college courses are absolutely acceptable. Since money is tight, definitely take your courses at your local community college. But beware, community college courses can be just as challenging as courses at 4-year schools. As for which upper-division courses to take, keep in mind that many medical schools (DO and MD) are starting to require courses such as biochemistry. So I recommend taking around 3 of the following courses: biochemistry, genetics, cell biology, anatomy/physiology, etc. There's absolutely no need to go overboard with upper-division courses. I would take 3 at the max. Finally, do realize that many DO schools require 2 classes of anthropology, sociology, or psychology. Be sure to check the prerequisites for the schools you are interested in.

Now, let's talk about ECs. The ECs you listed are all good things to have, and you should continue doing them. As a general rule of thumb, you want to demonstrate two major things with your ECs. The most important thing is exposure to medicine. You need to convince the admissions committee that you have significant exposures to medicine, and this is often achieved through a combination of hospital volunteering (which you currently have), physician shadowing, research, and/or paid work in the medical field as an EMT, scribe, etc. You don't need to have all of the above, but you do want a significant amount of medically-related experiences. As another general rule, accepted MD applicants have, on average, around 150 hours of hospital volunteering and 50 hours of shadowing. Finally, because you are applying to DO schools, be sure to shadow an osteopathic physician (you'll need a DO letter for many osteopathic medical schools). Other than showing your interest in medicine (and osteopathic medicine for DO schools), your ECs should also demonstrate your altruism and willingness to serve others. This is often accomplished through community service activities. I recommend finding an organization that you really enjoy/believe in and make a significant commitment to service with that organization. When it comes to ECs, quality is more important than quantity, and longevity matters quite a bit. For example, it is much better to volunteer for 200 hours spread out over 2 years with one organization than it is to volunteer for 200 hours spread out over just one summer with many organizations. Commitment is more important than breadth.

Lastly, since it has been quite some time after you graduated from undergrad, you must have plenty of experiences (just as employments) since you finished college. Absolutely include these experiences on your application; they are what separates you from the more traditional applicants in there early/mid 20s. Because of your age, you have experiences in the real world that very few applicants have. Use them to your advantage!

Best of luck with your endeavors. Have faith in yourself, and don't hesitate to reach out for help. SDN is a very helpful place full of good people and information, but take what you read on here with a grain of salt.

MedicalCareerGirl32 · Oct 31, 2014

Thank you so much! I really thought back then I didn't stand a chance, so I thought I should just give up on my lifelong dream of being a doctor, but I guess there's still hope for me! I feel so happy, you have no idea and I thank all of you on here for reassuring me that it's not over. I was thinking of doing other careers, like optometry or speech language pathology. However, if I did do those careers, there would always be a burning desire within me to be a physician. Every time I see my primary care doctor for a physical, I always feel like I wish I was in her shoes. I guess my biggest fear is getting through residency in one piece, but if others can do it, why can't I?

Also, I want to know, where should I take my pre-reqs and upper division bio classes? Would community colleges be acceptable or should I take them at university as a non-matriculated student? The reason I ask, is mainly because of cost. It is significantly cheaper to take pre-reqs and upper division classes at community colleges, but I guess all med schools (both DO and MD), know that it's probably easier at a community college.

How many hours of shadowing should I get with a DO? I am starting to feel a little better in terms of my mental health due to the new antidepressant I'm taking. I also want to know, do I need to do any research of any sort? It terms of employment, I have not really been able to find work during my 8 years out of school (a BA in psychology is pretty much useless), so I spent a lot of time helping my parents in their convenience store business and doing volunteer work on the side. What other ECs would you recommend I do? Do I need a lot of ECs to be a stronger applicant?

I'm so glad I found this website. Why didn't I find this when I was in undergrad? If only I knew...lol. I really do wish I was in my 20s, but 32 is definitely not old. I just worry about being 40 when I finish both med school and residency, but if I don't apply, I'll never know, right? My husband is also worry that he will lose touch with if I go to med school and do my residency. That's definitely a big concern for him. If there are other nontrads out there, how did you do it? Again, thanks a lot and I'll definitely update you on how things go. Thanks, and wishing you all the best!

jbuc1081 · Oct 31, 2014

So, after reading all of this, I can tell you that none of this is a big deal if you're willing to put the time in right now. I was a terrible student and had a 1.8 GPA for about two years! Then, I took a year off from school and decided to improve my life by working really to improve my motivation issues. I went back to my community college, then a university (most community colleges don't offer upper level science classes) and ended up graduating with a 3.57 cGPA and a 3.87 sGPA. Currently, I've had 3 interviews with one acceptance, one waitlist, and the other interview was today. If you want something bad enough, you'll get there. The only thing standing in your way is you, as cliche as that sounds.

Higherprimate · Oct 31, 2014

I'm 32 right now, have been accepted to 2 schools, waiting to hear from 4 other schools that I interviewed with, and still have 3 interviews to complete. I am married, have a five year old girl and twin girls that are 11 months old. I dropped out of school 11 years ago to be an entrepreneur. I built many business, invested in real estate, had some great years but ultimately lost every thing I owned when the real estate market crashed in 2008. It was at that point that i decided to go back to school starting from ground zero and become a physician. It was scary and difficult. I wanted to make it through undergrad in 4 years which meant I had to take about 17 credits every semester and not take summers off. My wife works more than full time which meant I had to take classes and watch my kids once the babysitter left at 4 pm everyday until they went to bed. Then when my wife got home I'd head off to work graveyard shifts before class the next day. I'm not telling this story to toot my own horn, but I'm trying to show you that if you want it bad enough that you can do it. It has been a very challenging process but I have learned so much about myself, my abilities, and I'm a much better person for having gone through what I have. Being older and going through this process has been extraordinary. I may not be the smartest guy out there but I make up for that with hard work and life experience. Life experience can be a great tool that you can use as you go through the application process and through medical school.
The one thing that I would suggest is (which I'm sure you have already done) think long and hard about why you want to become a physician and if you really think you and your family can handle it. It is not a decision to take lightly especially being older.
Good luck to you. I hope my story helps one way or another.

Osteopath999 · Nov 1, 2014

Beside everyone's good advice, I want to emphasize that your health is number 1 priority... Make sure you have good health and good mentality. Medical school is a long journey. You have to make sure that you can handle the stress and will not fall in deep depression in the middle of the way.

I wish you good health, strong spirit and fresh mind to keep up with your dream... PEACE !

deleted480308 · Nov 1, 2014

1. Get your mental health in order

2. Retake your bad <b grades

2a. Get a high twenties mcat

3. Apply DO, be a doctor

I was a 31 yr old dropout with 90credits <3.0 when I went back to school. Now an ms1, this is possible

Prncssbuttercup · Nov 1, 2014

Let's see...
graduated in 1999 with a 2.78 c/s with a Biomed science degree. Now OMSIII... I did 90 credits of PB work and brought it up to a ~3.25 c/s... That was me working my butt of and having a 3.85 PB (cumulative), with a 3.95 for last 60 credits, and a 3.9 for science... 26 on my MCAT, and I got in on my first try. It CAN be done, I am living proof of it. If you want to do it, you can do it. As others have said, you NEED to have your brain in the right place before you even start on this road. It's bumpy, it's hard, it sucks at times, and I think most people would be lying if at some point they never felt like giving up. The mind game is harder than the school work, if you don't have your mind in the right place, this issue is a non-starter...

MedicalCareerGirl32 · Nov 1, 2014

Thank you everyone for your input! I will first take care of my mental health, and once I start feeling better, I'm heading over to my local Community College to retake my prereqs. I also may have to take upper division sciences as a non-matriculated student at a University. I feel so happy that it's never too late to pursue your dreams. Hearing the horror stories of residency does scare me, but life isn't easy no matter what you do. I'm ready to take on the challenge. Another thing I worry about is coming out of med school and residency in my 40s (yikes!). Sometimes it makes me think about optometry or speech language pathology as good alternatives, but again, I would always have a burning desire to be a physician. I appreciate all your help and encouragement and I look forward to keeping in touch! Thanks!

DocWinter · Nov 1, 2014

It is within reach. The magic of DO retakes make it possible, and 32 is not too old to reinvent how you study and to put health issues behind you. The CC is an underused resource for the nontrad, go for it. However, I want to stress that you would do yourself a service to check out PA programs and try to see yourself in that capacity. You are looking at 2-3 years of retakes and applying before you start med school, if you can make the needed changes. Many have and many people have overcome similar or more to get in, I have no doubt it is possible if you retake and do well.

Prncssbuttercup · Nov 2, 2014

MedicalCareerGirl32 said:
Thank you everyone for your input! I will first take care of my mental health, and once I start feeling better, I'm heading over to my local Community College to retake my prereqs. I also may have to take upper division sciences as a non-matriculated student at a University. I feel so happy that it's never too late to pursue your dreams. Hearing the horror stories of residency does scare me, but life isn't easy no matter what you do. I'm ready to take on the challenge. Another thing I worry about is coming out of med school and residency in my 40s (yikes!). Sometimes it makes me think about optometry or speech language pathology as good alternatives, but again, I would always have a burning desire to be a physician. I appreciate all your help and encouragement and I look forward to keeping in touch! Thanks!

I am 38, I will be almost 40 when I start residency and ~43 when I finish. If you're going to work until you're 70-75 anyway, why not like what you do? Why not be able to look back at your life and at least say you TRIED to follow your dream? What legacy do you leave if you look back and say 'gee I wish I had tried a little harder to accomplish my goals'...

avivace · Nov 2, 2014

I agree with what the earlier posters have said. Your first priority needs to be getting your health in order. You might see if any form of volunteering is doable and helpful while you're still working on your health. Walking shelter dogs, for example, gives you the feel-good chemicals from exercise, some enthusiastic canine affection, and the satisfaction of making a difference in a dog's life, while simultaneously helping you work toward your goal of becoming a doctor.

Once you can focus on schoolwork, community colleges can be an excellent resource for your prereqs. I took (or retook) almost all of mine at a community college, and if anything I think I benefited from taking those classes at the college instead of a university. Community colleges often have smaller classes and more helpful faculty than state schools, especially for basic science courses. I had 20 students in my organic chemistry class and 12 in my lab (which was taught by the professor). That's the sort of individual attention pricey liberal arts colleges brag about, yet you can get it for very little at a community college. I've also found that community college teachers generally want to teach and are happy to help their students with both academic and life issues, so once you start classes again be sure to get to know your professors. If your local community college has a nursing program, it will likely offer some upper-division science courses such as anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry, so you may not need to go back to a university at all. Overall, I think community colleges can offer an excellent education and a supportive environment to get back into learning.

It's actually fairly common to start this journey in your early 30s. With longer lifespans, more people are working at least part-time into their 70s and even 80s, so 30s are not as late in your working life as they were when you might retire at 55. If you could be happy as an optometrist or a PA, definitely go in that direction, but if you really want to be a doctor it's nowhere near too late.

JimmyB123 · Nov 2, 2014

Anyone can get into DO school. Retake your classes and do decently well on the MCAT. Immerse yourself in some interesting ECs and have a profound story that you bring to your application. You're set.

Easier said than done, but anyone can get into an osteopathic school with enough effort. Same can't be said about MD schools.

Prncssbuttercup · Nov 2, 2014

JimmyB123 said:
Anyone can get into DO school. Retake your classes and do decently well on the MCAT. Immerse yourself in some interesting ECs and have a profound story that you bring to your application. You're set.

Easier said than done, but anyone can get into an osteopathic school with enough effort. Same can't be said about MD schools.

Nothing like some DO discrimination to end the night... Wow dude... I know people who have been accepted to MD schools starting in the same position. But thanks for letting everyone know that as a student you think DOs are lesser.

JimmyB123 · Nov 3, 2014

Prncssbuttercup said:
Nothing like some DO discrimination to end the night... Wow dude... I know people who have been accepted to MD schools starting in the same position. But thanks for letting everyone know that as a student you think DOs are lesser.

Not at all man. I just think that DO schools are more forgiving given the nature of grade forgiveness. It's a HUGE factor that makes DO schools much more attainable. That's not saying that the students are lesser. It's saying that their relentless hard work has an arena where it will pay off.

Prncssbuttercup · Nov 3, 2014

Then maybe you shouldn't start your post with "anyone can get into DO school" & finish with "not true for MD school"...

DoctorSynthesis · Nov 3, 2014

Prncssbuttercup said:
Then maybe you shouldn't start your post with "anyone can get into DO school" & finish with "not true for MD school"...

I agree it was worded poorly but I get his point. DO schools value reinvention. You're never out of the game. You can always fix it. So lay off! That was harmless.

snow1010 · Oct 2, 2016

Don't take trolls too seriously in the "Not a Night Person at All!" thread.

snow1010 · Oct 2, 2016

You shouldn't give up your goals because of trolls.

Mr. D.O.five · Oct 2, 2016

JimmyB123 said:
Anyone can get into DO school.

JimmyB123 said:
Not at all man. I just think that DO schools are more forgiving given the nature of grade forgiveness. It's a HUGE factor that makes DO schools much more attainable. That's not saying that the students are lesser. It's saying that their relentless hard work has an arena where it will pay off.

I can imagine QP as a doctor.

JimmyB123: "Sir, you have cancer and are going to die."

Cancer guy: "wtf mate"

JimmyB123: "I mean you are going to die eventually, such is life, but chemotherapy treatment yields a complete remission rate of >95% and we can definitely start you on it right away"

Cancer guy: "oh y u no say that b4"

JimmyB123: "cus I'm im trololololol"

Wiggly Tuff Da Ruff · Oct 2, 2016

You guys are so inspirational right now. I have a nagging thought that I would be too old to start med school at 30 years of age. I felt really alone. Thank you all for sharing your stories. This post is invaluable.

cliquesh · Oct 2, 2016

Geo16 · Oct 2, 2016

2 year bump!
Going to favorite this, a lot of encouragements!

Definitely don't stand a chance for DO school. Considering other career options....

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