deleted

[Mcpickle]

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[AM77]

I’m shocked at how rampant the cheating is at your school. I can tell you that it’s hard to cheat on the NAPLEX because it’s a lengthy computerized exam with cameras everywhere. In real life, there’s nothing to cheat off of. Not sure if people want to be in the position of killing a patient.
In your situation, you’re doing the right thing by studying the material on your own. Additionally, the job market is going to be very tough once you’re done with school. You’re better off getting work experience right now and net working.
The “unfriend” button on Facebook is your best friend.

 

[DagS132]

Cheating eventually catches up with people. I knew of people in undergrad that cheated through gen bio 1 and 2. Then when they got to the core courses that required a good knowledge of the basics, they were screwed and did very poorly or dropped out. Cheating also affects a person's ability to do work so in the future they will really struggle just to keep up with the material because they haven't built up their discipline to actually put in the time to study.
Just curious but what is your school's passing rate on the naplex?

 

[CaptainPicard]

Don't let it consume you. I witnessed ridiculous cheating in both undergrad and pharmacy school. In undergrad I tried to report it but was told to back off for fear of a lawsuit. In pharmacy school I went with a group to report what was happening. It was more of the same nonsense. Schools only care about their money. And they don't want a scandal to be revealed and tarnish their image.

Don't cheat and do your best. Focus on yourself because there is no justice in this world.

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

This sounds like a vent thread but if I may offer some advice.
The next time she offers cheating material, politely decline and let her know you don't use them, never have and don't plan on.
The reason being that if **** hits the fan and she tries to bring people down with her, you will be one of them by virtue of having had the answers or whatever sent to you. Even if you never used them, there is no proof that you didn't (or did), but you said "Thanks" which could be seen as an acceptance of them.

You're not asking but that's what I'd do.
Good luck.

 

[AM77]

Who spends $200,000 just to spend 4 years learning how to cheat? It’s best to use that money and learn how to make the most out of your education.

 

[mentos]

Which school is this?

 

[877259]

I went to a small private Christian school for pre reqs that is known for sending a high number of students to medical school. If you were a member of certain fraternities or sororities you would be given a bunch of old test from difficult courses passed down every year, some as far back as 10 years. Needless to say these people barely had to study and made As/Bs in Organic, Cell, Physics ect.

 

[AM77]

It depends if the professor writes new exam questions every year.

 

[TanMan]

Tread carefully. Do you want to destroy them without destroying yourself? Anonymously send those exams to the respective faculty. Most won't care, but the ones that do will rewrite their exams completely and make it extremely difficult in retaliation. The administration will suppress it by making sure that it doesn't go public, but the ones that can right the wrong are the testmakers. Now, the question is, if these people fail out, do you feel guilty that you just stuck them with pharmacy school debt without a pharm degree? If not, go ahead and do it. The bigger ethical question is that if you don't stop it, will someone else? If not, can you accept that this will have to go on until you have a whistleblower that destroys the lives of many future pharmers.

Cheating/cheaters never stop. They will only go underground. AND if they (administration, teachers, future colleagues, future employers) find out it was you, you might get blackballed out of your profession. These situations tends to go deeper than what you may think. I would not be surprised if you had faculty that attended your institution that used the same materials. It can go that deep.

Morality v. pragmatism. They don't always go hand in hand, and you will have to choose. The most moral decisions are not always the easiest and by accepting such material over electronic sharable medium you may end up shooting yourself in the foot. However, if you strongly believe that you need to end the cheating even if it means self-destruction, then consider it. Pragmatically, you could choose to use it or ignore it, live your life like nothing happened, if you don't want to use the material, don't use it. I think it's actually nice that your class shares this material to everyone instead of hoarding it to a few select individuals, but that's just me. Your board exam is the great equalizer, but don't be surprised if they have board materials too.

 

[DIPEA]

just let them cheat as much as they want. naplex will do the justice to them eventually.
aside from that，i personally support those who cheat on useless crap courses though. professional schools should prep for a job，not to ask students to spend tremendous amount of time memorizing and regurgitating absolutely irrelevant crap.

 

[Timbo]

Turn her in to the school. If that doesn't work turn them in to ACPE. Honestly I feel that this will become a public safety issue once your school graduates incompetent pharmacists. Which school is this? Where I went, this would be unheard of.

 

[Lubeckd]

Most people can't even pass naplex if they don't get the core information. They may pass but they never understood the material. I passed the exam with 1 week worth of study.

 

[BC_89]

Cheating is extremely prevalent and part of the culture, at least in my small pharmacy school.….. I befriended a girl who was the source of the cheating....She was part of this whole "gang" who cheated and she passed it on to me....I never studied with anyone but my boyfriend at the time, and we both got by fine just studying the material.

I'm just stuck. Because I know that I am in this too. The culture of cheating is so ingrained that I'm scared at how big this could turn.

Thoughts?

1) Continue studying with your boyfriend.

2) Turn in your emails / social media / texts to the dean or assistant dean of student affairs or whoever if it bothers you that much.

3) Pass the NAPLEX and MPJE when the time comes and move on knowing the rest will fail.

If you never cheated then I doubt some 22 year old can convince the whole school you were in on it with the other 60% of the class. Those are my thoughts

 

[mentos]

I see what you did there.

What did I do? I just asked which school this was which was never mentioned.

 

[mentos]

Obviously, putting identifying information on this thread would be ill advised for the op. Just seemed like a sneaky attempt to expose those in our profession who seem to not care about ethics or fairness.

I just thought people would like to know which school has all this cheating going on.

 

[Gombrich12]

I just thought people would like to know which school has all this cheating going on.

My guess is it's a huge issue throughout most colleges now. It's never been easier to use technology to cheat and once you get in the habit of doing something the easy way it's hard to go back. Remember when you were a kid and found the cheat codes for video games? You never played the game the right way afterwards and it sort of ruined it.

 

[Lubeckd]

My guess is it's a huge issue throughout most colleges now. It's never been easier to use technology to cheat and once you get in the habit of doing something the easy way it's hard to go back. Remember when you were a kid and found the cheat codes for video games? You never played the game the right way afterwards and it sort of ruined it.

cheating is like networking with jobs, you need to find the right network. of course they are going to fail naplex

 

[GhostOfCourteousAnimals]

Cheating is extremely prevalent and part of the culture, at least in my small pharmacy school. Everyone cheats. Everyone has answers. If you don't, you're perceived as a "loser". The work, I admit in our very new curriculum implemented my year has been impossible without cheating. For example, lab work questions that take at least 30 minutes each to answer but expect us to answer in 5 minutes because they are so poorly written the magnitude of angles to approach it are infinite, however, the instructor is looking for only 1 answer, and getting points off because of it is extremely discouraging. So I understand sharing answers in that sense, where some labs had better instructors that were helpful in answering or the ones who wrote the question sharing answers with labs where the instructor is just a TA.

However, my P2 year, I befriended a girl who was the source of the cheating. I didn't really know how bad it was until I became closer to her. The cheating in the sense of screenshotted questions from exams on Moodle, documents with all the answers/questions, pictures of the scantron keys, started coming my way from her. She was part of this whole "gang" who cheated and she passed it on to me. I was pretty cautious with who I made friends up until that point, and it was hard to draw the line between what I thought was right and wrong as "cheating" was just a part of the culture. I never studied with anyone but my boyfriend at the time, and we both got by fine just studying the material. And by everyone, I mean like 60% of the student body, I know personally, cheat. The students on the ethics committee, I have come to know, are also the ones who take pictures with their apple watches of the exams. This is how "normal" cheating is at our school.

So when cheating material would be sent to me on facebook, I would say thanks and never use it. I never ever once asked for it. My FB messages with the girl are, she sends me a pic, I say thanks, over and over again. I know I'm culpable though.

But things started to make me depressed when I started studying with her. She wrote answers on her arm and because she has ADHD so she got special testing accommodations and she said the proctor never pays attention. She has a sister who is the grade above us who sends her all of the material. The tests. The quizzes. Everything. She memorizes scantrons. Writes a, b, a, b, b on her arm.

Obviously, I'm extremely upset by this and we eventually fall out. She, not surprisingly, is a horrible person as well. At least by my standards.

I'm just stuck. Because I know that I am in this too. The culture of cheating is so ingrained that I'm scared at how big this could turn. This girl is connected to A LOT of people and by a lot I mean like at least 10 other people who are deeply in her scheme. I'm talking students on visas, $200,000 in debt with no way to pay it back if they get kicked out. I will be ruining their lives pretty much. The material this girl has is no joke. That's why so many people are her "friend". I'm just at a loss at what do. I honestly wish I had never met her, I wouldn't have known how deep her cheating went and I could live in ignorant bliss. The lack of integrity makes me so upset, eats me up inside, every time I see her post with her white coat on Facebook. I have been tempted of course to participate, to just ride that train, because no one will say anything. There are no consequences of it. Everyone cheats, so everyone will keep their mouth shut. Everyone wants to do well. But it disgusts me and at the same time I feel like they don't deserve to be pharmacists at all.


It eats me up inside. I want to mind my own business, but I know that's not the kind of person I am. The repercussions could be huge. I have all of the FB messages. She passed a class that I almost failed because she memorized scantons that she sent me. That is my only evidence that I didn't use the material. In her messages it says, "memorize it" underneath the picture of the scantron.

Thoughts?

You realize that when this cheater passes pharmacy school and then kills a patient due to her lack of knowledge you will be partially morally responsible, right? There is never an excuse to cheat and by not reporting her, you are passively agreeing with her cheating. You have the evidence. Report her to your school. Not "everyone cheats" in fact I think it's in the minority.

 

[TanMan]

@Mcpickle Did you decide what you're going to do? I'm curious how you are approaching the situation. Also, I like the McRib (if that has anything to do with your name) and wish they had it all the time.

 

[angelsplight]

Cheating is to some extent, unavoidable. My school actually made us take electronic exams on a terrible program (Examsoft) that pretty much killed one of my laptops to prevent cheating. Even then, it was avoidable to be cheating..Why? One of my professors used the exact same questions on his quizzes as he did on exams and also reused them over the years. Because of that, the average on his exams was typically 95%~ because everyone in the class except for 1-2 person had all answers to the exams memorized before taking it. That professor however, was eventually forced to change the exam questions for the class 2 years below us because someone actually complained to the dean.

 

[ChicPharmDee]

The lack of integrity makes me so upset, eats me up inside, every time I see her post with her white coat on Facebook. I have been tempted of course to participate, to just ride that train, because no one will say anything. There are no consequences of it. Everyone cheats, so everyone will keep their mouth shut. Everyone wants to do well. But it disgusts me and at the same time I feel like they don't deserve to be pharmacists at all.

I felt this post. There are groups of ch**ters at my school as well and it sucks because they got away with it while I struggled along on the sidelines. Chegg and joint-effort groupchats are their source of answers and once they nearly got caught but somehow snaggled their way out of the situation. Sometimes I feel as if I shouldn't have allowed them to go scot-free, but then I realized that my honest work will get me through future concepts, exams and field-related work, while they will struggle because they cheated their way out of actually learning something.

They do not deserve to be pharmacists at all! Let alone anything the medical field because, who knows, their lack of knowledge might cost someone their life. They are playing a dangerous game. Although it happens everywhere, I'm sorry you have to go through it.

 

[Heroic Combo]

I wonder what the NNC (Number Needed to Cheat) is to kill one patient.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I wonder what the NNC (Number Needed to Cheat) is to kill one patient.

Or Number Needed to Graduate from Diploma Mills

 

[right500]

I feel like the cheaters from pharmacy school went on to be the people who successfully rely on everyone else to avoid errors, moved up the ladder quickest, and I am unaware of any who have been caught in their incompetence (yet). Unfortunately, I think the kinds of skills and personality traits necessary to set-up cheating rings lend themselves to success in some workplaces.

 

[1003660]

Cheating is extremely prevalent and part of the culture, at least in my small pharmacy school. Everyone cheats. Everyone has answers. If you don't, you're perceived as a "loser". The work, I admit in our very new curriculum implemented my year has been impossible without cheating. For example, lab work questions that take at least 30 minutes each to answer but expect us to answer in 5 minutes because they are so poorly written the magnitude of angles to approach it are infinite, however, the instructor is looking for only 1 answer, and getting points off because of it is extremely discouraging. So I understand sharing answers in that sense, where some labs had better instructors that were helpful in answering or the ones who wrote the question sharing answers with labs where the instructor is just a TA.

However, my P2 year, I befriended a girl who was the source of the cheating. I didn't really know how bad it was until I became closer to her. The cheating in the sense of screenshotted questions from exams on Moodle, documents with all the answers/questions, pictures of the scantron keys, started coming my way from her. She was part of this whole "gang" who cheated and she passed it on to me. I was pretty cautious with who I made friends up until that point, and it was hard to draw the line between what I thought was right and wrong as "cheating" was just a part of the culture. I never studied with anyone but my boyfriend at the time, and we both got by fine just studying the material. And by everyone, I mean like 60% of the student body, I know personally, cheat. The students on the ethics committee, I have come to know, are also the ones who take pictures with their apple watches of the exams. This is how "normal" cheating is at our school.

So when cheating material would be sent to me on facebook, I would say thanks and never use it. I never ever once asked for it. My FB messages with the girl are, she sends me a pic, I say thanks, over and over again. I know I'm culpable though.

But things started to make me depressed when I started studying with her. She wrote answers on her arm and because she has ADHD so she got special testing accommodations and she said the proctor never pays attention. She has a sister who is the grade above us who sends her all of the material. The tests. The quizzes. Everything. She memorizes scantrons. Writes a, b, a, b, b on her arm.

Obviously, I'm extremely upset by this and we eventually fall out. She, not surprisingly, is a horrible person as well. At least by my standards.

I'm just stuck. Because I know that I am in this too. The culture of cheating is so ingrained that I'm scared at how big this could turn. This girl is connected to A LOT of people and by a lot I mean like at least 10 other people who are deeply in her scheme. I'm talking students on visas, $200,000 in debt with no way to pay it back if they get kicked out. I will be ruining their lives pretty much. The material this girl has is no joke. That's why so many people are her "friend". I'm just at a loss at what do. I honestly wish I had never met her, I wouldn't have known how deep her cheating went and I could live in ignorant bliss. The lack of integrity makes me so upset, eats me up inside, every time I see her post with her white coat on Facebook. I have been tempted of course to participate, to just ride that train, because no one will say anything. There are no consequences of it. Everyone cheats, so everyone will keep their mouth shut. Everyone wants to do well. But it disgusts me and at the same time I feel like they don't deserve to be pharmacists at all.


It eats me up inside. I want to mind my own business, but I know that's not the kind of person I am. The repercussions could be huge. I have all of the FB messages. She passed a class that I almost failed because she memorized scantons that she sent me. That is my only evidence that I didn't use the material. In her messages it says, "memorize it" underneath the picture of the scantron.

Thoughts?

yeah the same issue confuses me so badly because on the other hand of any actual cheating you never really know how some people stick to academic honesty and certain stringent ethical guidelines with clear boundaries until you really know

you never ever really know if they are doing the right thing or if any of the subcultures are more important

 

[pharmBear]

Original post was deleted but here are something i will share with you.....it doesnt matter.

Why doesnt it matter?..because when you are in practice, I can tell who knows their stuff and actually applies the knowledge versus who just "memorized the answers". The difference is really truly quite clear AND...the growth is minimal bc they will have to relearn stuff they needed to know the first time around. Time wasted really.