Demographics of incoming med school classes

[DermViser]

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You need a lesson in economics if you think that incomes can not decline if some folks have huge loans. Ask the glut of law school grads. How does the competition to get in and the cost of attendance have any relevance to salaries going down? The competition and the COA to earn a sociology degree at an Ivy is high but that doesn't mean the salaries of sociology grads from those schools must go up. The logic of this statement baffles me.

What if starting salaries stagnate and lose about 3% per year over the next 10 yrs? Would making 30% less in 2024 than the graduating residency class of 2014 seem like a big drop? It would basically be a stagnation of wages (no 2-3% increase for inflation per year for stating salaries). It will be like putting a frog in cold water and slowly raising the temperature. Slow and steady, you boil to death. I think that it would make medicine less attractive to the college graduating class of 2024 than medicine is to the college class of 2014.

You're talking to premeds who believe med school is worth the price no matter what.

 

[ace12345]

You're talking to premeds who believe med school is worth the price no matter what.

Not to bring back a dying thread, but I've found this an important topic.

I think the premeds on here - for the most part - are just trying to get credible information, and respect the advice that so many advisors on here have distributed. Yes people can get a little sparkly-eyed, but for the most part they want to learn about the profession.

What realistically is the financial cut off then? At what, let's say a range of numbers, would it no longer be worth it?

 

[Greenberg702]

Not to bring back a dying thread, but I've found this an important topic.

I think the premeds on here - for the most part - are just trying to get credible information, and respect the advice that so many advisors on here have distributed. Yes people can get a little sparkly-eyed, but for the most part they want to learn about the profession.

What realistically is the financial cut off then? At what, let's say a range of numbers, would it no longer be worth it?

Primary care? 350-500K in loans. Top paying specialties (think ortho, neurosurgery, interventional cards w/ 500K+ salary) probably 800K-1M. Obviously, no entity would actually let you borrow this.

 

[tantacles]

Oh I found it. About 54% of applicants and 52% of matriculants are female. Very interesting. I don't want to make too many assumptions about why some of these classes are skewed even more than that towards females, but the adcoms must be seeing something in them they're not seeing as much of from males....

My school in particular considers women to be an underrepresented group in medicine. That's not to say the school needs to look hard to find qualified women to accept an admissions offer, but it's one facet to consider.

 

[type12]

I remember when I was in elementary school, people were saying medicine will be dead by the year 2000, for various reasons. Then the next big number was 2010, where we would have oversaturation, and supply and demand economics requires salaries of doctors to go below the poverty line.

I see we now have 2040 on the horizon, where we'll see the same thing: medicine is more lucrative than ever, and doctors will complain.

A single economics concept doesn't make anyone an expert, and it requires a great deal more expertise and understanding than "supply and demand." It is more difficult to master than most areas of medicine.

With that in mind and not being an expert either, I defer to those who are. Last I checked, the view was that medicine is overpriced, and will only continue to inflate. People who are at universities should ask their economics Professors - or those with a PhD in the field - where they think medicine will go.

Seriously, it's like all of these people think they have mastered the stock market. Why are you on a forum and not striking it rich shorting stocks? lol

 

[Greenberg702]

My school in particular considers women to be an underrepresented group in medicine. That's not to say the school needs to look hard to find qualified women to accept an admissions offer, but it's one facet to consider.

That's pretty outrageous considering that the majority of matriculants to medical school are women.

 

[Mad Jack]

So 60% of incoming students are wasting more time with gap years. I think this hurts the medical profession. It isn't like these people are out there making tons of money to pay for medical school. They have less time to work after school and residency and more debt. Medicine is becoming much worse in terms of a financial decision. I don't think I'd go for it now without someone else willing to foot the bill.

No time in life is wasted so long as you're actually enjoying it. Life isn't about efficiency, it's about happiness.

 

[Heplayer92]

Thanks for bringing us back on track.

This item in bold made my eyes pop out then I laughed as I see that Asian was slipped in there. Pretty tricky.

When they say "underrepresented in medicine"...is this only race/ethnicity? Or does it include others factors such as first generation college student, financially disadvantaged?

 

[plumazul]

That's pretty outrageous considering that the majority of matriculants to medical school are women.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...d-school-classes.1086356/page-3#post-15477773

 

[LizzyM]

When they say "underrepresented in medicine"...is this only race/ethnicity? Or does it include others factors such as first generation college student, financially disadvantaged?

Who is "they"?

The answer depends on who "they" are. This might help answer your question.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23165265

 

[Greenberg702]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...d-school-classes.1086356/page-3#post-15477773

https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/2013factstable1.pdf

47.2% in 2013 but still, that's hardly underrepresented. Many of the big name schools are above 50% btw.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's pretty outrageous considering that the majority of matriculants to medical school are women.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/2013factstable1.pdf

 

[Mad Jack]

https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/2013factstable1.pdf

47.2% in 2013 but still, that's hardly underrepresented. Many of the big name schools are above 50% btw.

That's 47.2% even with the focus on schools bringing more women into medicine. Without such a focus present, the percentages would likely be much less equal and in favor of men.

 

[Heplayer92]

Who is "they"?

The answer depends on who "they" are. This might help answer your question.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23165265

I guess "they" as in adcoms/AAMC. That is a good read, thanks for that LizzyM. It just seems that, well, mostly on SDN and conversation that URM is about race. I'm glad that they're taking other characteristics into account though. Appreciate your time and recommendation!

 

[ace12345]

That's 47.2% even with the focus on schools bringing more women into medicine. Without such a focus present, the percentages would likely be much less equal and in favor of men.

Good point. Is the argument that women will eventually become the majority then based upon college acceptance rates?

 

[lmn]

Good point. Is the argument that women will eventually become the majority then based upon college acceptance rates?

Well according to the list someone posted earlier, med school admissions for females has continually decreased despite increased in college acceptances.

 

[ace12345]

Well according to the list someone posted earlier, med school admissions for females has continually decreased despite increased in college acceptances.

Right, that's why I am confused where the data for women becoming the majority is coming from (Not that it is a problem of course, I'm just interested).

 

[deleted480308]

I wonder if the proliferation of non-trads is partially a reaction to a rough economy causing people who were otherwise successful to change careers...maybe it's not as much a multiplication of gap years designed for med school apps as everyone is making them out to be

 

[LizzyM]

Good point. Is the argument that women will eventually become the majority then based upon college acceptance rates?

Over the short term the proportion of women has declined a few percentage points. Over the long term, looking back to the 1950s-70s, there has been a big upswing over 40-60 years.

 

[type12]

Ah yes, just like disco:

 

[Greenberg702]

Good point. Is the argument that women will eventually become the majority then based upon college acceptance rates?

That might be where a lot of people are wrongly getting the "women are the majority of matriculants" from, including myself. There are a lot of data demonstrating that women have higher rates of academic achievement in primary education through college. The pendulum has dangerously swung the other way with minority boys getting the short end of the stick, and I'm glad the president is addressing it. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/21/education/obamas-my-brothers-keeper-education-program-expands.html

Also, if you look at the stats from good med schools, you'll see that women are in the majority at a lot of them (Harvard, Hopkins, U of M, Wash U, Columbia). Yes there are some top tiers with more males, but not by much. I think this demonstrates that women definitely hold their own in the admissions process as I highly doubt these schools give preference based on gender.

 

[mysdnhandle]

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