Denied Security Clearance

[DocToad]

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Can anyone provide a little insight for this one?

Here is some background.....

I received a 1 year Army HPSP scholarship for the last year of medical school. I am currently in my 4th and final year of residency in a civilian program after receiving a deferment. I have never attended OBC or performed an ADT during school. During residency I was notified that my security clearance was denied and I have received my final decision approximately 3-6 months ago. Where do I go from here? I have tried to get in touch with the "correct" people but I just keep getting passed along. I have been told that I can not continue in the program as I do not have the appropriate clearance. I have also been told that I will need to request separation proceedings and resign my commission. What does that mean and how do I do this?

Any input would be of great help. Thanks in advance.

 

[IgD]

Have you received an official communication notifying you of this? I'm thinking the HPSP program office would send you a memo with specific references and notification about the situation. It might be helpful if you posted some of the info here.

 

[Heeed!]

It seems odd to me that you haven't been given an explanation as to WHY you were denied a security clearance. If you do know why, you didn't post it. There can be many reasons why individuals don't get a security clearance: criminal behavior, ties to terrorist organizations, being a Democrat, being a PC user, etc. Seriously, though, can you give us some more info?

 

[pathognomonic]

One of the most common reasons for being denied a security clearance (believe it or not) is bad credit. The logic behind this one is that you are more likely to sell out to the bad guys if you really need the money. 🙄

 

[njaqua]

One of the most common reasons for being denied a security clearance (believe it or not) is bad credit. The logic behind this one is that you are more likely to sell out to the bad guys if you really need the money. 🙄

Bad credit didn't keep me from getting clearance. Why did you not find out until now? I had to get my SC when I accepted the scholarship. Does it have something to do with it only being a 1 year scholarship in your case?

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Since when did they start giving one year scholarships anyway? What good is a doc with a 1 year ADSC. It takes 2 months to get up to speed, and 1-2 months of terminal leave, house hunting, job hunting, and outprocessing. Are we that desperate already? What is really lame is someone who did one year of HPSP and then a military residency would then owe 3-5 years for only 1 year of assistance!

 

[edmadison]

Since when did they start giving one year scholarships anyway? What good is a doc with a 1 year ADSC. It takes 2 months to get up to speed, and 1-2 months of terminal leave, house hunting, job hunting, and outprocessing. Are we that desperate already? What is really lame is someone who did one year of HPSP and then a military residency would then owe 3-5 years for only 1 year of assistance!

It's a two year commitment for a 1 year scholarship. One of our residents did it because her husband was in.

Ed

 

[i want out]

Since when did they start giving one year scholarships anyway? What good is a doc with a 1 year ADSC. It takes 2 months to get up to speed, and 1-2 months of terminal leave, house hunting, job hunting, and outprocessing. Are we that desperate already? What is really lame is someone who did one year of HPSP and then a military residency would then owe 3-5 years for only 1 year of assistance!

yes it takes at least a couple months to get up to speed on at least how to wear the uniform, and probably 6-12 months of using AHLTA before its no longer a major impediment to care.

I would even argue that after 4 yrs on active duty, I still have only begun to learn the system, and thats probably a big part of why so many get out as soon as they can.

Back on topic; if you only have a 1-2 yr obligation, don't think for a minute that you will get more than about 15 days of terminal leave unless you can make a bulletproof case for it.

also, the job and house hunting TAD's are only authorized if your retiring, they are NOT AUTHORIZED if you are seperating at the end of your ADSC.

And if you get more than a few days of 'outprocessing' your lucky, or have bamboozled somebody.

i want out

 

[sethco]

I have been told that I can not continue in the program as I do not have the appropriate clearance. I have also been told that I will need to request separation proceedings and resign my commission.

Wow.

Does that also mean you don't have to pay the miltary back?

I actually never had a security clearance until a couple of months before I started active duty. I always wondered what would happened if I was denied clearance. I agree you should call the HPSP office for direction.

 

[Monty Python]

Can anyone provide a little insight for this one?

Here is some background.....

I received a 1 year Army HPSP scholarship for the last year of medical school. I am currently in my 4th and final year of residency in a civilian program after receiving a deferment. I have never attended OBC or performed an ADT during school. During residency I was notified that my security clearance was denied and I have received my final decision approximately 3-6 months ago. Where do I go from here? I have tried to get in touch with the "correct" people but I just keep getting passed along. I have been told that I can not continue in the program as I do not have the appropriate clearance. I have also been told that I will need to request separation proceedings and resign my commission. What does that mean and how do I do this?

Any input would be of great help. Thanks in advance.

1. Contact the specific Army office which grants security clearances (you might have to dig a little to find this office's specific name and contact info .... start with the base IG or base security officer in charge). Submit a Freedom of Information Act request for your Army security clearance file.

2. Contact the Defense Security Service http://www.dss.mil/ for a Freedom of Information Act copy of your background file. Under normal procedures, the DSS does the actual background check, and then forwards your case file to the specific government agency which will actually grant you the security clearance.

 

[georgia_md]

Can anyone provide a little insight for this one?

Here is some background.....

I received a 1 year Army HPSP scholarship for the last year of medical school. I am currently in my 4th and final year of residency in a civilian program after receiving a deferment. I have never attended OBC or performed an ADT during school. During residency I was notified that my security clearance was denied and I have received my final decision approximately 3-6 months ago. Where do I go from here? I have tried to get in touch with the "correct" people but I just keep getting passed along. I have been told that I can not continue in the program as I do not have the appropriate clearance. I have also been told that I will need to request separation proceedings and resign my commission. What does that mean and how do I do this?

Any input would be of great help. Thanks in advance.

How did you get HPSP and be in a civilian program? Wow, lucky

 

[georgia_md]

One of the most common reasons for being denied a security clearance (believe it or not) is bad credit. The logic behind this one is that you are more likely to sell out to the bad guys if you really need the money. 🙄

Yes, this can raise eyebrows. But in the interview, explain that you were unwise in your past monetary decisions , learned from your mistakes, and taken measures in correctem them. This is not unforgivable.

It's hard for me to believe the OP was not even given an interview to explain himself.

 

[DocToad]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay in response. I appreciate all of the info that you have given.

The reason for my denial is just that...bad credit! The funny thing was that when I originally signed up for the scholarship, this came up. I spoke to the recruiter about it and said we would just have to wait and see if I was accepted. Low and behold, I was. Then midway through my 4th year, I was approached by someone in the security office during one of my rotations. I had a full interview with him explaining my credit. I then wrote a letter to the office explaining it all. I didn't hear anything for about almost 2 years. Then I received a letter while in residency stating that my clearance had be suspended. I wrote a letter explaining the reason for the credit problems in the past and finally I received my official notice of denial about 4-6 months ago. Now I am having trouble finding the correct person to talk to in order to find out what my next step is. In the past I had received notification that if I was officially denied, I would have to be separated from the program. Now everone I call says "well I think you need to talk to....".

I am continuing to find out the correct person. Hopefully this week I will get a chance to talk to Jana Cox. I had sent a couple of emails in the past, but never received a response. I will try call her this week.

Any further input would be great.

 

[SeminoleFan3]

Not that this really has to do with the original topic, but when one says "bad credit," exactly how bad are we talking?

 

[georgia_md]

In the interview, you had your chance to expand and clarify the information you wrote on the security questionnaire. Then adjudicators takes all the information and sum it all up in a final investigation report. This states if you are granted or denied clearance. The adjudicators should give you the opportunity to explain or refute negative or unclear information that could influence their clearance decision. Note that their decision is not set in stone. All denials are personally reviewed by branch chief or higher. And you always have the right to appeal a denial. Since military physicians are usually placed in highly sensitve military positions and/or positions of trust, they can get pretty meticulous on who they give clearance to.

 

[jonb12997]

kind of off topic, but I got thinking about this, do they do polygraphs for military physician security clearances?

 

[njaqua]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay in response. I appreciate all of the info that you have given.

The reason for my denial is just that...bad credit! The funny thing was that when I originally signed up for the scholarship, this came up. I spoke to the recruiter about it and said we would just have to wait and see if I was accepted. Low and behold, I was. Then midway through my 4th year, I was approached by someone in the security office during one of my rotations. I had a full interview with him explaining my credit. I then wrote a letter to the office explaining it all. I didn't hear anything for about almost 2 years. Then I received a letter while in residency stating that my clearance had be suspended. I wrote a letter explaining the reason for the credit problems in the past and finally I received my official notice of denial about 4-6 months ago. Now I am having trouble finding the correct person to talk to in order to find out what my next step is. In the past I had received notification that if I was officially denied, I would have to be separated from the program. Now everone I call says "well I think you need to talk to....".

I am continuing to find out the correct person. Hopefully this week I will get a chance to talk to Jana Cox. I had sent a couple of emails in the past, but never received a response. I will try call her this week.

Any further input would be great.

So from this post it sounds like they can grant security clearance, then take it away at some point in the future? Do they periodically check your credit and background info after issuing the initial clearance? So if halfway through med school you default on a credit card or something they can take away your scholarship?

 

[West Side]

So from this post it sounds like they can grant security clearance, then take it away at some point in the future? Do they periodically check your credit and background info after issuing the initial clearance? So if halfway through med school you default on a credit card or something they can take away your scholarship?

Quite so.

The critical question remains: are you hereby released from having to serve your active duty? Because if so, I think you just found one hell of a loophole out of HPSP: destory your credit.

Yes, it'll be financially damaging. Then again, I don't think there's much use for an American Express Black card in Fallujah.

 

[IgD]

The critical question remains: are you hereby released from having to serve your active duty? Because if so, I think you just found one hell of a loophole out of HPSP: destory your credit.

The poster could still be requested to serve in the military in a non-medical capacity. I've seen this once before, an acquaintance didn't pass internship and was given the choice of repeating or serving in the medical service corps. She chose the latter.

 

[LADoc00]

Bad credit? Bad credit???

A history of a being a transexual prostitute would be one thing, but credit scores?

You have to be f-ing joking.

How low was it??? Like 400s?

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Yes, it'll be financially damaging. Then again, I don't think there's much use for an American Express Black card in Fallujah.

Sure there is. The insurgents who kidnap you can take a picture of it and broadcast it to the world.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

To the OP: You lucky dog!

 

[West Side]

I have also been told that I will need to request separation proceedings and resign my commission. What does that mean and how do I do this?

Failing the intern year is one thing. That's an otherwise perfectly good soldier that just happens to suck at being a doctor.

According to the military, this person can't be trusted to guard a door for fear of him accepting a payoff to keep Uncle Vinny off his back. And I'm no expert in military-speak, but it sounds like "seperation" and "resign" are two golden words many would love to hear.

 

[CoastieLT]

Before the service denies your clearance they need to send you a Letter of Intent. Once you receive the letter you have 30 days to send a response. The Security Center should be able to help you. Do you have a Command Security Officer on your Chain of Command? Getting a security clearance after a bad credit incident is not that hard, I have seen it done often (I'm the CSO at my unit). I even dealt with one of my subordinated that had a bankruptcy and he still has his Top Secret clearance.

West Side - If you get discharged for bad credit, they will probably recoup everything they paid for during your scholarship... I would not destroy my credit to avoid serving, you may end up owing 200-250K to Uncle Sugar and without credit to get the money (or a good rate)... imagine having to take a loan of 200K at a 13%!!!

 

[West Side]

West Side - If you get discharged for bad credit, they will probably recoup everything they paid for during your scholarship... I would not destroy my credit to avoid serving, you may end up owing 200-250K to Uncle Sugar and without credit to get the money (or a good rate)... imagine having to take a loan of 200K at a 13%!!!

I question whether they could seperate you for no particular good reason aside from the fact that they didn't do their due diligence BEFORE paying the scholarship.

But to go down the rabbit hole here, let's just say you're right. Let's assume you have to finance $200K at 13% vs. 7% (which works out to around 170 bps over LIBOR, not a bad rate). That works out to a monthly difference of a whopping $881. How many of you would pay $881 monthly to have your freedom back?

Put another way, and I'm doing the quick math here, wouldn't you pay $117K today (the present value of an annuity that paid $10,500 annually at 9%) in exchange for:

• having a satisfying professional experience
• making more money
• having more freedom
• having a stable family life

That sounds awfully cheap to me.

And don't forget the fun of running up the bill on your way to a BK. 😀

Note: I forgot to add this person had but a 1 year scholarship. So s/he'd be financing a measly $45K; stipends are not recoverable by the military.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

How many of you would pay $881 monthly to have your freedom back?

Put another way, and I'm doing the quick math here, wouldn't you pay $117K today (the present value of an annuity that paid $10,500 annually at 9%) in exchange for:

• having a satisfying professional experience
• making more money
• having more freedom
• having a stable family life

. 😀

Where do I send the check?

 

[megadon]

So I've been through this security clearance crap more than I ever would have wanted. I previously held a Top Secret/SCI clearance, which meant I got reviewed every five, vice the 10 for our secret clearances. They also ask more neighbors more embarassing questions. My dad has had a Q clearance since before I was born, and our crazy neighbors have proved a pain in the butt. (They're really crazy, so delusional people are not good to interview).

Anyway, the reason for the financial stuff (not saying I'm agreeing, you should appeal), is to determine how compromised you are and how good a target for foreign governments to turn you. However, this is in't very pragmatic, people don't get rich off spying. When Ames (I think that's right) sold out the submarine service, and sold all our acoustic quieting information to the Russians, he didn't make much. Like 100k. How much is Iran going to give you, North Korea? About the only country with money laying around that we are really worried about is China, and if you ain't chinese, they probably don't trust you anyway.

Depending on your situation, I would fight this tooth and nail. Screw this Jana person, get your senator involved. Unfortunately you are no one to the military, counting on some beaucrat is hedging your bets. Get some political firepower behind you for some real results. However, what deal are they offering you? Is the military walking away from this deal without you repaying? If so, maybe its a lucky break.

 

[NaijaDocBx]

Hey guys I don't normally post but this is a subject near and dear to me....I just got the scholarship for all 4 yrs of school (I'm starting in the Fall) and I have some credit issues...I just recieved a letter from Transunion stating that an inquiry was made on my account regarding an employment background check (the security clearance)...I have a judgement against me for a credit card I had a few years ago, but I settled with the collections agency so it should have been deleted from my credit report. What should I do? This totally makes me look horrible and I know now I probably won't get my security clearance...my brother already has his, but he doesn't have all the issues with his credit that I do...I told my recruiter that I had bad credit and he told me as long as I make sure that all of my debts are paid within 6 months I should be fine and that's exactly what I'm attempting to do. I really want to serve and I thought I was going to have this scholarship but I feel like they won't give it to me now...man, this sucks...a few dumb things you do while in college can really come back to haunt u...

 

[njaqua]

Hey guys I don't normally post but this is a subject near and dear to me....I just got the scholarship for all 4 yrs of school (I'm starting in the Fall) and I have some credit issues...I just recieved a letter from Transunion stating that an inquiry was made on my account regarding an employment background check (the security clearance)...I have a judgement against me for a credit card I had a few years ago, but I settled with the collections agency so it should have been deleted from my credit report. What should I do? This totally makes me look horrible and I know now I probably won't get my security clearance...my brother already has his, but he doesn't have all the issues with his credit that I do...I told my recruiter that I had bad credit and he told me as long as I make sure that all of my debts are paid within 6 months I should be fine and that's exactly what I'm attempting to do. I really want to serve and I thought I was going to have this scholarship but I feel like they won't give it to me now...man, this sucks...a few dumb things you do while in college can really come back to haunt u...

Actually, that crap stays on your credit report for 7-10 years, depending on the state in which you reside. I have cards that I even paid off and closed years ago and they're still on there. however, I have a couple from years past that I defaulted on and I still passed my background check. Must be desperate these days, I guess.

 

[SeminoleFan3]

Hey guys I don't normally post but this is a subject near and dear to me....I just got the scholarship for all 4 yrs of school (I'm starting in the Fall) and I have some credit issues...I just recieved a letter from Transunion stating that an inquiry was made on my account regarding an employment background check (the security clearance)...I have a judgement against me for a credit card I had a few years ago, but I settled with the collections agency so it should have been deleted from my credit report. What should I do? This totally makes me look horrible and I know now I probably won't get my security clearance...my brother already has his, but he doesn't have all the issues with his credit that I do...I told my recruiter that I had bad credit and he told me as long as I make sure that all of my debts are paid within 6 months I should be fine and that's exactly what I'm attempting to do. I really want to serve and I thought I was going to have this scholarship but I feel like they won't give it to me now...man, this sucks...a few dumb things you do while in college can really come back to haunt u...

Not by any chance going to UF are you?

 

[NaijaDocBx]

Nope...sorry...but good luck at UF if that's where u're going 🙂

 

[SeminoleFan3]

Nope...sorry...but good luck at UF if that's where u're going 🙂

It's not. But, I did my physical the same time these guys (2 brothers) were doing their's (subsequently going to UF).

 

[deuist]

I have also been told that I will need to request separation proceedings and resign my commission. What does that mean and how do I do this?

It means you're free! You beat the system that we've all been trying to get out of for a long time. Sing to the heavens: "FREEDOM!"