Dental Anesthesiology

[Steins;Gate]

Not too many threads on this and a lot of info is a bit outdated, but interested to hear thoughts on Dental Anesthesiology, more specifically:

1) If you chose the DA route, what made you choose it?
2) Difficulty of stringing cases together when going from PP office to PP office?
3) Types of cases in PP?
4) Is it possible to do a mix of PP and hospital work? What is the scope of hospital work?
5) Income potential?
6) Class ranking necessary to be competitive to match (i.e. is top 1/3 of class enough, etc.)?

Thank you!

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[Screwtape]

$100 the only reason you're asking about this is the thread about the guy making $550k as a dental anesthesiologist. But if you are actually serious about it and not just the high income of that one guy on the radio, you should try and shadow one in your area. Most likely there won't be a dental anesthesiologist, but a decent chance there is an anesthesiologist (physician) who just travels office to office doing sedations for dentists. If not, they definitely will be in a bigger city. They do the same job. Try that.

 

[Steins;Gate]

Thanks @Screwtape ! I've actually been in contact with sleep dentists for a while and asking the same questions and trying to set up observerships so duly noted! No... I'm not really interested that that DA made $550K because DA is not for everyone. It's quite removed from clinical dentistry so I guess it's a bit interesting to take that route and I'm just trying to hear out some opinions. Personally I think the pharmacological aspect mixed in with the physiology of the individual is quite interesting and they provide an essential service. I'd be interested even if they made $150K if it's a good fit for me - it's also much less physically taxing and also very fulfilling.

Not always about the benjamins, sorry if I came off that way but I assure you that is not the case. I'm just glad to see though that DA is a viable option to consider! Still a D2 so I'm just considering options.

 

[FanOfCostco]

$100 the only reason you're asking about this is the thread about the guy making $550k as a dental anesthesiologist. But if you are actually serious about it and not just the high income of that one guy on the radio, you should try and shadow one in your area. Most likely there won't be a dental anesthesiologist, but a decent chance there is an anesthesiologist (physician) who just travels office to office doing sedations for dentists. If not, they definitely will be in a bigger city. They do the same job. Try that.

You owe me 100 bucks. Pay up or gv black will haunt your dreams

 

[Ultiva]

Not too many threads on this and a lot of info is a bit outdated, but interested to hear thoughts on Dental Anesthesiology, more specifically:

1) If you chose the DA route, what made you choose it?
2) Difficulty of stringing cases together when going from PP office to PP office?
3) Types of cases in PP?
4) Is it possible to do a mix of PP and hospital work? What is the scope of hospital work?
5) Income potential?
6) Class ranking necessary to be competitive to match (i.e. is top 1/3 of class enough, etc.)?

Thank you!

1) it's an amazing opportunity and something that I will love doing every day. There is nothing to lose by gaining such extensive training in anesthesia, I will have knowledge and skills other dentists won't have, and my brain thinks/works on a physiological/pharmacological manner
2) not sure about this yet, but practicing DAs seem to be very busy and booked up months in advance
3) primarily pedo, other specialists who need the services, phobics, special needs
4) hospital work rather unlikely, but may be possible for hospital dental cases or head and neck procedures. Issues are insurance reimbursement for DMD (insurance dictates who can provide treatment, not skill or knowledge)
5) everyone has food on the table, it's up there with all specialties
6) all depends on application year, Pitt dental currently has two of the 4 residents who ranked #1 in their class. You should be damn smart to this.

 

[DavesNotHere]

Not too many threads on this and a lot of info is a bit outdated, but interested to hear thoughts on Dental Anesthesiology, more specifically:

1) If you chose the DA route, what made you choose it?
2) Difficulty of stringing cases together when going from PP office to PP office?
3) Types of cases in PP?
4) Is it possible to do a mix of PP and hospital work? What is the scope of hospital work?
5) Income potential?
6) Class ranking necessary to be competitive to match (i.e. is top 1/3 of class enough, etc.)?

Thank you!

1) A lot of people choose dental anesthesia because it is the specialty training that is the furthest from clinical dentistry. People who hate cutting crowns, or adjusting the fit on dentures, sometimes look for a drastic departure in what they'll be doing for their 30+ year career. Another reason is that it is one of the most cerebral of the specialties requiring quite a bit of medical knowledge. Nearly everyone in dental anesthesia considered med school or at least OMS at some point in their training.

2) Finding work is highly influenced by location. There are so few dental anesthesiologists with the majority located in California, Arizona and other west/southwest states. In these locations you'll find the most dentists willing to hire you, but you'll also have a lot of competition (with more and more in the future). If you choose to go to a state in the midwest or southeast it may take you quite a bit of time to establish a consistent customer base.

3) Cases in private practice are a mixture of sedation for adults undergoing implants/fixed and pediatric patients getting full mouth rehab. They're basically the same case everyday...over and over.

4) You will not work in a hospital. You may work as an attending in a dental anesthesia residency, but with so few residencies those spots are very very limited. And why would a hospital hire a dentist to provide general anesthesia when they have physicians and CRNAs cutting each others' throats for jobs?

5) Income potential is very high. Most dental anesthesiologists bill between 500-1000 for each case, and can do anywhere from 4-12 cases in a day. The guys in the southwest are probably doing about 20-30 cases per week (please jump in if this number is off) and there overhead is nearly nothing (Propofol and even remi/alfenta are just not very expensive...especially in pediatric doses).

I suspect that income will start to drop as more CRNAs and MDs start to realize the money that can be made in outpatient dental anesthesia.

6) It's not very competitive just because so few apply. I would agree that getting into Pitt would be difficult as they preference their own students and have a great/cushy program...but to simply MATCH is nothing compared to Ortho/OMFS.

 

[Screwtape]

1) A lot of people choose dental anesthesia because it is the specialty training that is the furthest from clinical dentistry. People who hate cutting crowns, or adjusting the fit on dentures, sometimes look for a drastic departure in what they'll be doing for their 30+ year career. Another reason is that it is one of the most cerebral of the specialties requiring quite a bit of medical knowledge. Nearly everyone in dental anesthesia considered med school or at least OMS at some point in their training.

2) Finding work is highly influenced by location. There are so few dental anesthesiologists with the majority located in California, Arizona and other west/southwest states. In these locations you'll find the most dentists willing to hire you, but you'll also have a lot of competition (with more and more in the future). If you choose to go to a state in the midwest or southeast it may take you quite a bit of time to establish a consistent customer base.

3) Cases in private practice are a mixture of sedation for adults undergoing implants/fixed and pediatric patients getting full mouth rehab. They're basically the same case everyday...over and over.

4) You will not work in a hospital. You may work as an attending in a dental anesthesia residency, but with so few residencies those spots are very very limited. And why would a hospital hire a dentist to provide general anesthesia when they have physicians and CRNAs cutting each others' throats for jobs?

5) Income potential is very high. Most dental anesthesiologists bill between 500-1000 for each case, and can do anywhere from 4-12 cases in a day. The guys in the southwest are probably doing about 20-30 cases per week (please jump in if this number is off) and there overhead is nearly nothing (Propofol and even remi/alfenta are just not very expensive...especially in pediatric doses).

I suspect that income will start to drop as more CRNAs and MDs start to realize the money that can be made in outpatient dental anesthesia.

6) It's not very competitive just because so few apply. I would agree that getting into Pitt would be difficult as they preference their own students and have a great/cushy program...but to simply MATCH is nothing compared to Ortho/OMFS.

That amount of cases seems pretty high to me. I think it would be possible to do that in a week but to average that would be pretty crazy since most of these guys are traveling from office to office, setting up, sitting during the procedure, then tearing down and waiting for patient to wake up and what not. I shadowed an anesthesiologist (MD) that only travels to dentist offices to sedate. He does about 3-4 cases a day and works 3-4 days a week. Think he charged $800 a pop so seemed happy working that amount. I would be lol. He was young and in the Midwest so I suppose his client base could be bigger but he mentioned what he does is typical for the area. I wouldn't doubt there are a few out there doing maybe doing 25-30 a week but probably isn't average ? You'd have to have a pretty streamlined system or be working in a megapratice to hit those numbers. Would be interesting to have a DA resident or practicing DA weigh in on this. I plan on using an anesthetists service in my office some day so am always happy to learn more about how and what they do.

 

[Steins;Gate]

1) A lot of people choose dental anesthesia because it is the specialty training that is the furthest from clinical dentistry. People who hate cutting crowns, or adjusting the fit on dentures, sometimes look for a drastic departure in what they'll be doing for their 30+ year career. Another reason is that it is one of the most cerebral of the specialties requiring quite a bit of medical knowledge. Nearly everyone in dental anesthesia considered med school or at least OMS at some point in their training.

2) Finding work is highly influenced by location. There are so few dental anesthesiologists with the majority located in California, Arizona and other west/southwest states. In these locations you'll find the most dentists willing to hire you, but you'll also have a lot of competition (with more and more in the future). If you choose to go to a state in the midwest or southeast it may take you quite a bit of time to establish a consistent customer base.

3) Cases in private practice are a mixture of sedation for adults undergoing implants/fixed and pediatric patients getting full mouth rehab. They're basically the same case everyday...over and over.

4) You will not work in a hospital. You may work as an attending in a dental anesthesia residency, but with so few residencies those spots are very very limited. And why would a hospital hire a dentist to provide general anesthesia when they have physicians and CRNAs cutting each others' throats for jobs?

5) Income potential is very high. Most dental anesthesiologists bill between 500-1000 for each case, and can do anywhere from 4-12 cases in a day. The guys in the southwest are probably doing about 20-30 cases per week (please jump in if this number is off) and there overhead is nearly nothing (Propofol and even remi/alfenta are just not very expensive...especially in pediatric doses).

I suspect that income will start to drop as more CRNAs and MDs start to realize the money that can be made in outpatient dental anesthesia.

6) It's not very competitive just because so few apply. I would agree that getting into Pitt would be difficult as they preference their own students and have a great/cushy program...but to simply MATCH is nothing compared to Ortho/OMFS.

Thanks for the response. For point 6, do you know what class rank would be solid to obtain interviews for DA? Is it as competitive as perio for example?

 

[Screwtape]

Thanks for the response. For point 6, do you know what class rank would be solid to obtain interviews for DA? Is it as competitive as perio for example?

I don't have any first hand knowledge about this but in 2016 there were 50 applicants and 32 were matched. I'm not sure if there are any non-Match programs. So 32/50 is a pretty decent percentage/ not super competitive. Here is the link for the other specialities to compare. https://www.natmatch.com/dentres/stats/2016sumstats.pdf

 

[Steins;Gate]

I don't have any first hand knowledge about this but in 2016 there were 50 applicants and 32 were matched. I'm not sure if there are any non-Match programs. So 32/50 is a pretty decent percentage/ not super competitive. Here is the link for the other specialities to compare. https://www.natmatch.com/dentres/stats/2016sumstats.pdf

Thanks Screwtape, appreciate it. Yeah, I saw the stats for matching but I wonder how strong the caliber of the 50 applicants (who interviewed) were versus other specialties' applicants.