Dentist annual salary

[OoPredentoO]

When I google the average salary for a dentist, I get this: "The median annual Dentist salary is $144,466, as of September 30, 2016, with a range usually between $129,002-$168,911."

But I constantly hear about dental students being offered a position in some corporate chain for ~$150,000/year right out of dental school with plenty of room for growth. Even my own dentist makes close to $300,000/year in a corporate office with a regular work week.

So what's the deal? I don't see how the "average" is $150,000/year when I hear of students being offered that amount straight out of dental school.

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[Scumbag_Steve]

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[OoPredentoO]

Think about the meaning of the word "average" and all it implies. You will quickly give up on trying to follow the numbers you hear and see down the rabbit hole in order to try and find out why they are what they are, and go back to studying soon enough.

That's a very good reply, thanks.

I do think asking the average salary is a bit lame, almost like asking what I'll get on my DAT without any information of my background. But, I'm just trying to feel out the financial side of the career a bit more, and sites claiming it's $150k seems a tad low. I'll be taking out ~300k in loans and I just don't really know what to expect.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

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[htdt]

A mediocre dentist in term of hand skills should expect a mediocre income, so right around 150k, correct? Such dentist would have no hope to become financially successful? Or does it depend on other factors?


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[Manic324]

I think you're living in fantasy land if you think $150,00 is guaranteed or low right out of dental school.

Most new graduates from my school get offers for 90-120K at the very most.

 

[DrSdreen]

I think you're living in fantasy land if you think $150,00 is guaranteed or low right out of dental school.

Most new graduates from my school get offers for 90-120K at the very most.

Agreed. Source: Another dental student in his D4 year.

 

[super frank]

A mediocre dentist in term of hand skills should expect a mediocre income, so right around 150k, correct? Such dentist would have no hope to become financially successful? Or does it depend on other factors?


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You don't need superstar hand skills to be successful financially. It's not like we're neurosurgeons.

 

[Screwtape]

I think you're living in fantasy land if you think $150,00 is guaranteed or low right out of dental school.

Most new graduates from my school get offers for 90-120K at the very most.

D4 here. Corporate in my area is guaranteeing $150k first year out. Many classmates working with family also similar number. Private practice associates average about $120-130k. However rural Midwest state... but many of these positions I would not consider rural.

 

[Tooth Ferry]

In my experience working in private practice prior to school, there are 3 kinds of dentists as told to me by my boss.

1. Business dentist. This dentist is a salesman at heart who excels in selling patients to get procedures they may or may not need. Their practice is a business dedicated to making money. This dentist will often open multiple practices stocked with recent grads. A very business-savy general dentist can pull in around $1,000,000 a year.

2. Quiet dentist. This dentist is not a salesman and sees themselves as a healthcare provider who prides themselves on doing good work. They may want to take more time per patient and are not concerned with money. Thus their compensation is lower.

3. The happy medium.

Point being: you can work 6 days a week for 10 hours a day and make a lot of money, or you can work 4 days a week with an hour for lunch. It all depends on your situation and the saturation of the market. If you really want to know what you'll make, find someone living the kind of lifestyle you want with the kind of practice you want and compare.

 

[wengerout]

Does the difference in salary between a GP and a OMFS balance out based on how good of a dentist you are? That is, hoe much would the best dentist make VS. how much would the best OMFS make?


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[Likkriue]

A mediocre dentist in term of hand skills should expect a mediocre income, so right around 150k, correct? Such dentist would have no hope to become financially successful? Or does it depend on other factors?


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Have you done zero research before applying to dental school? Not only do you barely know how much some schools cost, do you really think 150k is mediocre?

 

[BeaverLover]

Haha, a faculty member at my MWU interview suggested to not take anything less than 150G's first year out

 

[ncide]

Depends where you live. 90-110k where I am from is ridiculous for a dentist, even one starting out.

 

[htdt]

Have you done zero research before applying to dental school? Not only do you barely know how much some schools cost, do you really think 150k is mediocre?

Don't be so fast to jump to conclusions. I may not know how much a specific school costs from the top of my head, but where I live 150k is mediocre, maybe even below average for a dentist in private practice who has been out of school for 5+ years. If one goes to an expensive private school, I'm pretty sure he or she will have a really, really hard time paying off debt with an income of 150k.

 

[wengerout]

Haha, a faculty member at my MWU interview suggested to not take anything less than 150G's first year out

That's probably because at MWU their students come out with the ability to do so much more procedures than your average dental student.


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[stoopidmonkeycatdog]

I think it's also important to think about where the salary information we read comes from. I remember hearing that schools send surveys one year out, 5 years, and then 10 years, and the average response decreases dramatically based on time. even if this isn't how they get their numbers, I assume it's through some sort of survey since dental incomes aren't public knowledge.

Anecdotally I've never met a dentist making less than 300,000.

It's very possible the averages are skewed down by the reporting numbers isn't it?

Someone tell me if I'm wrong.

 

[doktorinprogres]

I think it's also important to think about where the salary information we read comes from. I remember hearing that schools send surveys one year out, 5 years, and then 10 years, and the average response decreases dramatically based on time. even if this isn't how they get their numbers, I assume it's through some sort of survey since dental incomes aren't public knowledge.

Anecdotally I've never met a dentist making less than 300,000.

It's very possible the averages are skewed down by the reporting numbers isn't it?

Someone tell me if I'm wrong.

Did they all own their own practice?

 

[Frychicken]

That's probably because at MWU their students come out with the ability to do so much more procedures than your average dental student.


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Marketing department at MWU is doing a stellar job if they can convince you that and take your tuition money.

 

[wengerout]

Marketing department at MWU is doing a stellar job if they can convince you that and take your tuition money.

lol well, I have yet to come across another school that teaches you how to do Implants, Invisalign, use soft tissue lasers, allow you to do the amount of procedures their students do, or provide the same amount of business/patient management classes. I admit they are expensive but they justify their price a whole lot more than some of the other schools IMHO.

 

[Tooth Ferry]

lol well, I have yet to come across another school that teaches you how to do Implants, Invisalign, use soft tissue lasers, allow you to do the amount of procedures their students do, or provide the same amount of business/patient management classes. I admit they are expensive but they justify their price a whole lot more than some of the other schools IMHO.

Teaching you how to do a procedure 1 or 2 times doesn't equal competency when you come out. You have may take implantology class and may even put it an implant or two but keep in mind you may be competing for residents to get those patients. If you do 3 removable dentures, that doesn't mean you'll be competent enough to start ripping them out on the reg.

Also the Invisalign thing is pretty common now. We have it at BU and I know NYU does as well.

Also the business/patient management skills are mandated by the CODA for the schools to be accredited. Schools demonstrate that their graduates have learned that via classes. You can can check the list out here.

 

[Tooth Ferry]

I think it's also important to think about where the salary information we read comes from. I remember hearing that schools send surveys one year out, 5 years, and then 10 years, and the average response decreases dramatically based on time. even if this isn't how they get their numbers, I assume it's through some sort of survey since dental incomes aren't public knowledge.

Anecdotally I've never met a dentist making less than 300,000.

It's very possible the averages are skewed down by the reporting numbers isn't it?

Someone tell me if I'm wrong.

When you get out of school and get an associate job you will be making around 150k base salary corporate, or maybe 100k base + 30/40% of collections. All depends on the gig you get and what you can do. Can you perform 2nd molar RCT's or do you need to refer them? Can you place/restore an implant or do you refer it?

 

[LFA20]

I think you're living in fantasy land if you think $150,00 is guaranteed or low right out of dental school.

Most new graduates from my school get offers for 90-120K at the very most.

I agree. Not to mention also like 80-90% of grads are doing some sort of residency..

 

[stoopidmonkeycatdog]

I agree. Not to mention also like 80-90% of grads are doing some sort of residency..

80-90%? No way

 

[stoopidmonkeycatdog]

Did they all own their own practice?

Yes they do

 

[wengerout]

Teaching you how to do a procedure 1 or 2 times doesn't equal competency when you come out. You have may take implantology class and may even put it an implant or two but keep in mind you may be competing for residents to get those patients. If you do 3 removable dentures, that doesn't mean you'll be competent enough to start ripping them out on the reg.

Also the Invisalign thing is pretty common now. We have it at BU and I know NYU does as well.

Also the business/patient management skills are mandated by the CODA for the schools to be accredited. Schools demonstrate that their graduates have learned that via classes. You can can check the list out here.

Fair point, I've already mulled it over and realized that although they teach you more procedures the cost increase probably isn't justified when you could learn the same things in C.E.

They made it appear that they went above and beyond the requirements of what they teach you in how to run a private practice, however I have no idea if they were exaggerating or not. For context my state school gives one class senior year on what you need to know in private practice to my understanding.


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[OoPredentoO]

I think you're living in fantasy land if you think $150,00 is guaranteed or low right out of dental school.

Most new graduates from my school get offers for 90-120K at the very most.

Now where did I say $150k is low in terms of starting salary?
I said that from experience, most graduates I talk to are offered $150k/yr at a corporate gig. This leads me to question the accuracy of the result I get when I google "dentist average salary," and $150k shows up.

SPOILER: I do not reside in Fantasy Land.

 

[LFA20]

80-90%? No way

at least in my school.

 

[Incis0r]

As someone who knows several dentists working in different corporate chains, here is what I've seen:

• $500/day is a typical daily guarantee at corp. You either get $500 a day or 30% of production (whichever is higher). At 240 days/yr, $500/day guarantees you $120K/yr.

• After picking up their speed, dentists at a busy corp can often push $700-$750/day. Multiply this by 240 workdays/year, and you get $168,000 to $180,000/yr. How long it takes each dentist to reach this stage varies based on their confidence, their range of procedures, and their speed.

 

[deleted632307]

Have you done zero research before applying to dental school? Not only do you barely know how much some schools cost, do you really think 150k is mediocre?

Savage...

 

[Likkriue]

Don't be so fast to jump to conclusions. I may not know how much a specific school costs from the top of my head, but where I live 150k is mediocre, maybe even below average for a dentist in private practice who has been out of school for 5+ years. If one goes to an expensive private school, I'm pretty sure he or she will have a really, really hard time paying off debt with an income of 150k.

You had no idea that Ivy leagues costed more than state schools. That's information you look up BEFORE applying to schools.

An Income of 150k does not mean you will not be financially successful. It is up to the student( if he/she goes to a private school) to tackle that debt smartly. Aka no bentlys no penthouses no trying to impress your parents by buying ridiculous things. My parents think because their friend who became a dentist 30 years ago and has crap tons of property are what all dentists are like. I had to give them a reality update.

Starting salary will be 100-120k for most graduates going into General pratice.

Very very few graduates open up a private pratice without outside help. Most become associates or go corporates. Look up trends in dentistry and you will see general practices are actually declining. Stuff I encourage you to research.

Also please start to research up all the schools you've applied to and start making notes next to each one. With your posts I highly doubt you've looked into them in as much detail as you should have.

 

[8_man]

Starting salary will be 100-120k for most graduates going into General pratice.

Looks like the dream is still alive then boyz.

(I don't actually want a Porsche)

 

[GypsyHummus]

You had no idea that Ivy leagues costed more than state schools. That's information you look up BEFORE applying to schools.

An Income of 150k does not mean you will not be financially successful. It is up to the student( if he/she goes to a private school) to tackle that debt smartly. Aka no bentlys no penthouses no trying to impress your parents by buying ridiculous things. My parents think because their friend who became a dentist 30 years ago and has crap tons of property are what all dentists are like. I had to give them a reality update.

Starting salary will be 100-120k for most graduates going into General pratice.

Very very few graduates open up a private pratice without outside help. Most become associates or go corporates. Look up trends in dentistry and you will see general practices are actually declining. Stuff I encourage you to research.

Also please start to research up all the schools you've applied to and start making notes next to each one. With your posts I highly doubt you've looked into them in as much detail as you should have.

Exactly.

No buying a new 70K BWM after graduating, no buying a 300K house, no going on trips u can't afford either. The debt is very real. Its not at all unlikely that if you go to a private school you could end up in 450-500K in debt. And while 120K sounds great, after uncle sam comes to take his cut, its more like 85K. Still good money, but having that amount of debt is ridiculous

What i don't understand is why so many people still go to dental school/why dental school is still so competitive with how much it costs. Its ridiculous. People with 3.6 and 20 on the DAT get waitlisted and would give their right kidney to go 500K in student loan debt. The job market is really that bad, and or they did really badly on the MCAT

 

[kidsaremypassion]

Exactly.

No buying a new 70K BWM after graduating, no buying a 300K house, no going on trips u can't afford either. The debt is very real. Its not at all unlikely that if you go to a private school you could end up in 450-500K in debt. And while 120K sounds great, after uncle sam comes to take his cut, its more like 85K. Still good money, but having that amount of debt is ridiculous

What i don't understand is why so many people still go to dental school/why dental school is still so competitive with how much it costs. Its ridiculous. People with 3.6 and 20 on the DAT get waitlisted and would give their right kidney to go 500K in student loan debt. The job market is really that bad, and or they did really badly on the MCAT

Because almost every pre-dental student knows that one dentist or orthodontist who has a successful practice, raking in 300k plus and drives an S-class Mercedes, while only working 4 days a week with essentially no call. What other profession is going to offer you that without working a ridiculous amount of hours every week or getting up in the wee hours of the morning?
I'm not saying that this is the story /lifestyle of every dentist, but you have to admit its a huge reason why the field has become so sought after and competitive now. Hell, there was an M.D. in my graduating class..Everyone is just looking for their personal pot of gold at the end of a very long rainbow...
I do think the debt is ridiculous, and I am hoping it somehow corrects itself over the next decade. Even undergrad tuition is going up. The cost of education as a whole needs a major correction/overhaul.

 

[Incis0r]

A mediocre dentist in term of hand skills should expect a mediocre income, so right around 150k, correct?

Can a newly minted dentist really make $150K? That's such an amazing deal. If I can do that and work at a CHC, then I can't ask for more- that's the perfect deal for me.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Takeaway message from this thread:

It's difficult to predict how much you'll make as a new graduate, as debt and state are important factors. But I"m of the school of thought that even with crippling debt, if you were meant to be massively successful, you will be! Keep your heads up family <3

 

[321931]

Read the ADA:
http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science and Research/HPI/Files/HPIBrief_1215_1.ashx
http://www.drbicuspid.com/index.aspx?sec=ser&sub=def&pag=dis&ItemID=319023

The highest salary of GPs was back in 2005 when it peaked at 219k for a GP. According to this 2014 analysis it is now 174k. It has always been decreasing ever since.

In addition, there has been an increase in GPs stating "they are not busy enough" compared to earlier years.

Do your homework and think if its worth it.

These are simply my opinions.

 

[Incis0r]

Listen to @Rainee people...s/he has some valuable advice to give based on real-world experience.

 

[x0jessmariex3]

The practice I'm working at is pretty big about 5 associate dentists, a periodontist and hygienist. Recently, a lot of the assistants and receptionists have been saying its much slower this year than previous years. Mainly due to patients canceling appointments. I think it's mainly because a lot of patients who don't have insurance think dentists just want to make money and the procedures aren't necessary. Anyways I'm sure dentistry has declined in the salary because saturation and patients just not wanting to get the dental work done. I think it's still pretty profitable though. Still worth it IMO. I'm okay with 100K a year.

 

[wengerout]

Read the ADA:
http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science and Research/HPI/Files/HPIBrief_1215_1.ashx
http://www.drbicuspid.com/index.aspx?sec=ser&sub=def&pag=dis&ItemID=319023

The highest salary of GPs was back in 2005 when it peaked at 219k for a GP. According to this 2014 analysis it is now 174k. It has always been decreasing ever since.

In addition, there has been an increase in GPs stating "they are not busy enough" compared to earlier years.

Do your homework and think if its worth it.

How about specialties?


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[wengerout]

The practice I'm working at is pretty big about 5 associate dentists, a periodontist and hygienist. Recently, a lot of the assistants and receptionists have been saying its much slower this year than previous years. Mainly due to patients canceling appointments. I think it's mainly because a lot of patients who don't have insurance think dentists just want to make money and the procedures aren't necessary. Anyways I'm sure dentistry has declined in the salary because saturation and patients just not wanting to get the dental work done. I think it's still pretty profitable though. Still worth it IMO. I'm okay with 100K a year.

Sad, but good to know how the field is going! How did you like that large set up? Did you think it was more or less beneficial?

It's interesting because the dentist I shadow only has one other associate and they are PACKED, however they work outside my college town, not in a big city.


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[321931]

Regarding specialists: I do not know as I'm a GP; however, there a few schools of thoughts where specialists will be in the future.

I'm in the school of thought that specialist income will decline because GPs are forced to become super GPs to make $$$. With more competition, lower reimbursement, we have to keep everything in house to make $$$. My office refers <1% of patients unless they are febrile, 20 meds, close proximity to nerve, crazy lawsuit patients. We keep everything in house to make goals.

Therefore specialists are tacked with patients that noone wants or the hard cases. Gone are the days of 4 day workweek GP that only does crowns/fills and refers everything out. I just don't see that happening anymore.

Finally, you cannot go into dentistry thinking you will specialize as you don't know whether you will like the specialty or if you have the competitive edge to be top 3 in the class to be in OMFS. Finally, you do know most specialty schools you have to pay 100-200k to become one? That is alot of loans.

These are simply my opinions.

 

[kidsaremypassion]

Regarding specialists: I do not know as I'm a GP; however, there a few schools of thoughts where specialists will be in the future.

I'm in the school of thought that specialist income will decline because GPs are forced to become super GPs to make $$$. With more competition, lower reimbursement, we have to keep everything in house to make $$$. My office refers <1% of patients unless they are febrile, 20 meds, close proximity to nerve, crazy lawsuit patients. We keep everything in house to make goals.

Therefore specialists are tacked with patients that noone wants or the hard cases. Gone are the days of 4 day workweek GP that only does crowns/fills and refers everything out. I just don't see that happening anymore.

Finally, you cannot go into dentistry thinking you will specialize as you don't know whether you will like the specialty or if you have the competitive edge to be top 3 in the class to be in OMFS. Finally, you do know most specialty schools you have to pay 100-200k to become one? That is alot of loans.

So, I heard this all the time when I was applying/before I started dental school. All I'm going to say is if you think you may want to pursue a specialty in the future, you should hit the ground running from day 1. Work as hard as you can to keep as many doors open as possible. You may not need to be top 3, but being in top 15 will at least give you a decent shot if you choose to specialize.
In addition, most Peds and OMFS programs pay you as a resident-most are GME funded. Every other specialty largely charges. Personally, if one thinks they may want to specialize, the financial and educational decisions you make upon matriculation and during dental school play a big role in where you will stand 4th year. Try not to put yourself in a position where you have so many loans that you can't fathom extending your education due to interest accumulation.
The only issue I see with being a "super GP" is that you will always be held to the standard of the specialist, in terms of the care you provided for the patient. Its much easier said than done.

 

[wengerout]

So, I heard this all the time when I was applying/before I started dental school. All I'm going to say is if you think you may want to pursue a specialty in the future, you should hit the ground running from day 1. Work as hard as you can to keep as many doors open as possible. You may not need to be top 3, but being in top 15 will at least give you a decent shot if you choose to specialize.
In addition, most Peds and OMFS programs pay you as a resident-most are GME funded. Every other specialty largely charges. Personally, if one thinks they may want to specialize, the financial and educational decisions you make upon matriculation and during dental school play a big role in where you will stand 4th year. Try not to put yourself in a position where you have so many loans that you can't fathom extending your education due to interest accumulation.
The only issue I see with being a "super GP" is that you will always be held to the standard of the specialist, in terms of the care you provided for the patient. Its much easier said than done.

This is good to know. To be honest I don't see myself specializing, however if I get into the ivy I interviewed at and decide to attend then that might change simply due to the opportunity.

The dentist I shadowed was what you would call a "super GP". He does everything from implants to braces.


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[kidsaremypassion]

This is good to know. To be honest I don't see myself specializing, however if I get into the ivy I interviewed at and decide to attend then that might change simply due to the opportunity.

The dentist I shadowed was what you would call a "super GP". He does everything from implants to braces.


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If your intent is to be a "super GP" I would strongly advise one to consider pursuing a strong GPR/AEGD upon graduating dental school.Most schools will provide you with general competence in bread and butter dentistry, but one would need to take tons of CE to feel proficient in procedures such as implants/IV sedation/Invisalign, etc.You simply need to have a broad enough array of clinical experiences to be sure that you can handle any complications/nuances that may occur during complex treatment. Doing one or two cases in dental school is simply not enough. If I had chosen the GP route, a general residency is a path I would have strongly considered.

 

[wengerout]

If your intent is to be a "super GP" I would strongly advise one to consider pursuing a strong GPR/AEGD upon graduating dental school.Most schools will provide you with general competence in bread and butter dentistry, but one would need to take tons of CE to feel proficient in procedures such as implants/IV sedation/Invisalign, etc.You simply need to have a broad enough array of clinical experiences to be sure that you can handle any complications/nuances that may occur during complex treatment. Doing one or two cases in dental school is simply not enough. If I had chosen the GP route, a general residency is a path I would have strongly considered.

Hmm interesting, I've been told though that most GPR's/AEGD's end up being a waste of time though? That one would be better off going into private practice and getting your feet wet in that aspect of practice while also taking the CE you needed? I know in the case of the dentist I shadowed, he bought a practice straight out of dental school and just did a TON of CE. I know I either want to be a super GP (want to be able to do implant, TMJ/sleep apnea, Braces etc.) or to specialize, just not sure on which yet because I'm not in dental school.


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[x0jessmariex3]

Sad, but good to know how the field is going! How did you like that large set up? Did you think it was more or less beneficial?

It's interesting because the dentist I shadow only has one other associate and they are PACKED, however they work outside my college town, not in a big city.


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I think its a bit more beneficial. I like the fact that the dentists do things slightly differently so you are able to see different styles. Although its kind of difficult to remember which dentist does which procedure a certain way.

Also they are still pretty packed IMO. I wouldn't say the business is hurting terribly. Each dentist still has about 7-10 patients a day on average. The owner also does implants, braces, and invisalign.

 

[kidsaremypassion]

Hmm interesting, I've been told though that most GPR's/AEGD's end up being a waste of time though? That one would be better off going into private practice and getting your feet wet in that aspect of practice while also taking the CE you needed? I know in the case of the dentist I shadowed, he bought a practice straight out of dental school and just did a TON of CE. I know I either want to be a super GP (want to be able to do implant, TMJ/sleep apnea, Braces etc.) or to specialize, just not sure on which yet because I'm not in dental school.


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There are excellent programs out there, such as many VA programs. Others are not so great. As in everything else, I would talk to the residents/PD of strong programs and see what they have to offer.
CE courses are expensive, and good ones can run into the thousands. If your employer is willing to cover the cost, then great! It may be worth going straight into the practice. Always a good idea to weigh the positives and negatives of each route for yourself.

 

[321931]

As someone who knows several dentists working in different corporate chains, here is what I've seen:

• $500/day is a typical daily guarantee at corp. You either get $500 a day or 30% of production (whichever is higher). At 240 days/yr, $500/day guarantees you $120K/yr.

• After picking up their speed, dentists at a busy corp can often push $700-$750/day. Multiply this by 240 workdays/year, and you get $168,000 to $180,000/yr. How long it takes each dentist to reach this stage varies based on their confidence, their range of procedures, and their speed.

This is one of the best, honest answers I have seen by far.

Dentistry is amazing gig when student loans are all done. I finished my loans and I literally can work 3 days a week making 700-800 a day which is about 9-10k before tax.

That is awesome. And I choose to work 4 days on then 5 days on now so that I can live life a little.

The only problem now is that loans are the graduates with half a million in loans. when you have loans, kids, save for retirement, save for practice, house etc etc that is enormous amount of pressure. Most of the new grads I work with just put loans on Ibr/back burner and "ignore" it...but you have to face it eventually. It will never go away.

These are simply my opinions.

 

[Incis0r]

This is one of the best, honest answers I have seen by far.

Aw shucks.
That means a lot coming from you...thank you!

Dentistry is amazing gig when student loans are all done. I finished my loans and I literally can work 3 days a week making 700-800 a day which is about 9-10k before tax.

That is awesome. And I choose to work 4 days on then 5 days on now so that I can live life a little.

You've got a beautiful set up. Congratulations!! You're 1) Doing something meaningful 2) are rewarded very well for it and 3) are doing it on your own schedule/terms. A lot of people are incredibly jealous of you right now.

You have earned your success!

The only problem now is that loans are the graduates with half a million in loans. when you have loans, kids, save for retirement, save for practice, house etc etc that is enormous amount of pressure. Most of the new grads I work with just put loans on Ibr/back burner and "ignore" it...but you have to face it eventually. It will never go away.

10/10 agreed.