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dontwakeme

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"Dentists in general practice who owned their practice earned an average net income of $185,940 in 2004, according to a new report form the ADA Survey Center.

Income from the Private Practice of Dentistry, the first report published from the ADA Survey of Dental Practice, also shows that specialists' average net income was $315,160 in that year. From 2000-2004 general practitioners' net incomes increased by 11.7 percent, while specialists' incomes grew by 20.6 percent."

There has never been a better time to practice dentistry.
 

Streetwolf

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I thought I was just being nice and helping my community by going into dentistry... you're telling me I'll get lots of money too?

COOL

[/sarcasm] <-- because it's been posted 10000000000000 times
 
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SHC1984

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lets hope it stays that way when WE get out of dental school!! lol...



"Dentists in general practice who owned their practice earned an average net income of $185,940 in 2004, according to a new report form the ADA Survey Center.

Income from the Private Practice of Dentistry, the first report published from the ADA Survey of Dental Practice, also shows that specialists' average net income was $315,160 in that year. From 2000-2004 general practitioners' net incomes increased by 11.7 percent, while specialists' incomes grew by 20.6 percent."

There has never been a better time to practice dentistry.
 

reapply2007

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This is good news. Do I need to go to school to be a dentist or can I just open my own shop? If I need to go to school, does anyone know where a dental school is? I'm tired of collecting scrap metal for a living. This might be just the break I was looking for.
 

rals

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the OP was just posting some info... why all the sarcasm?... those numbers aren't something I knew...
 

Snahster

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the OP was just posting some info... why all the sarcasm?... those numbers aren't something I knew...

seriously. All the sarcastic posts are annoying. I have only seen this type of post once before and only signed up in november. So ya'll just need to relax and stop being E-bullies and acting like your the shi.t cuz you've been on SDN for X amount of years.
 

Streetwolf

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I've been here since October and I've seen it a handful of times.

We get it. Dentists make a nice salary.

I would HOPE that people who post in a pre-dent forum have some idea of the lifestyle of a dentist, including salary. Plus, it isn't terribly hard to google '2007 dentist salary' and find a good link.

Hence the sarcasm.
 

SHC1984

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This information is acutally really good!! so stop the sarcasm. For example, I didn't know someone in speciality make over 300K, I thought it was like 200K. 300K sounds good to me... Lets just hope I can get into ORTHO school!! Does an Orthodontist really make over 300K??? I went to many many many salary websites and look through MANY books and they always have an orthodontists making almost 200K and no where near 300K. So how much does an Orthodontist make??? (please let me know so I can decide if its worth it my time to go into...:) )
 

ice4804

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So how much does an Orthodontist make??? (please let me know so I can decide if its worth it my time to go into...:) )

In general, this depends on a bunch of different things...not to mention it varies on a case by case basis. You'd have to give specific details to get a good ballpark figure.
 

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As insurance stick their hand into the pot and as the ADA accredits foregin schools, expect salaries to stagnate if not go down in areas with many dentist
 

rals

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As insurance stick their hand into the pot and as the ADA accredits foregin schools, expect salaries to stagnate if not go down in areas with many dentist

they're starting to accredit foreign schools?? which ones? where can I find some info on this...
 

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"Dentists in general practice who owned their practice earned an average net income of $185,940 in 2004, according to a new report form the ADA Survey Center.

Income from the Private Practice of Dentistry, the first report published from the ADA Survey of Dental Practice, also shows that specialists' average net income was $315,160 in that year. From 2000-2004 general practitioners' net incomes increased by 11.7 percent, while specialists' incomes grew by 20.6 percent."

There has never been a better time to practice dentistry.

Why do they always quote net income for dentists? I understand there are overheads and all but does the net here mean "take-home," i.e., after taxes? I don't see anybody else reporting net income.
 
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SHC1984

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thanks good point. Like if I live in CA I would make alot more then if I live out in the middle of nowhere. lol.. but then again the standard of living is alot higher there too. So it evens out I guess... Oral Surgeons make the most, but I hate that field. Ortho is better.


In general, this depends on a bunch of different things...not to mention it varies on a case by case basis. You'd have to give specific details to get a good ballpark figure.
 

johntara04

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thanks good point. Like if I live in CA I would make alot more then if I live out in the middle of nowhere. lol.. but then again the standard of living is alot higher there too. So it evens out I guess... Oral Surgeons make the most, but I hate that field. Ortho is better.

Actually, rural dentists usually make bank ($300,000+), while those in cities (LA, SLC) are usually the struggling dentists.
 

SHC1984

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I see your point too. If dentists and doctors didn't make at least 150K-200K a year, then NO ONE will do it and this website won't even be here. :laugh: So it should be a given, but I was just shocked that a specialize could make over 300K on average. But thats great, even more reason to do this. :D






I've been here since October and I've seen it a handful of times.

We get it. Dentists make a nice salary.

I would HOPE that people who post in a pre-dent forum have some idea of the lifestyle of a dentist, including salary. Plus, it isn't terribly hard to google '2007 dentist salary' and find a good link.

Hence the sarcasm.
 

SHC1984

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Really? that sucks, b/c I really want to move to LA. I am from NC, so at least I am in a rural area right now! lol..



Actually, rural dentists usually make bank ($300,000+), while those in cities (LA, SLC) are usually the struggling dentists.
 

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As insurance stick their hand into the pot and as the ADA accredits foregin schools, expect salaries to stagnate if not go down in areas with many dentist

For the past decade or so, the field of dentistry has been doing very good. but we should not ignore certain threats that may eventually hurt our profession. Other then what dental dork mentioned, another concern would be incoporating of dentistry. If you guys take a peak over at the optom forum, you will see that coporate optom has made a big change to the image/mode of practice/ financial compensation to the profession, and not in a good way. im starting to hear rumors that walmart and other powerhouses are trying to coporate dentistry. as future dentists...i think this should be a concern for us.
 

SHC1984

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That would suck, but I guess it makes sense too. If TOO many people become dentist then there will be a SURPLUS of dentists and NO MONEY!! The reason why Dentists make alot NOW is b/c there is a shortage, especially in NC. But If too many dental schools open up and too many dentist graduate then there will be a surplus.. if only the shortage will last forever....



As insurance stick their hand into the pot and as the ADA accredits foregin schools, expect salaries to stagnate if not go down in areas with many dentist
 

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Why do they always quote net income for dentists? I understand there are overheads and all but does the net here mean "take-home," i.e., after taxes? I don't see anybody else reporting net income.

Does anyone wanna answer my question? Do they mean "take home" when these surveys report "net" income?
 

SHC1984

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I am 99.9% sure they mean net incomes, I have never seen any profession list "take-home" incomes. Unfortunetly you can't take home ALL 300K....


Does anyone wanna answer my question? Do they mean "take home" when these surveys report "net" income?
 

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For the past decade or so, the field of dentistry has been doing very good. but we should not ignore certain threats that may eventually hurt our profession. Other then what dental dork mentioned, another concern would be incoporating of dentistry. If you guys take a peak over at the optom forum, you will see that coporate optom has made a big change to the image/mode of practice/ financial compensation to the profession, and not in a good way. im starting to hear rumors that walmart and other powerhouses are trying to coporate dentistry. as future dentists...i think this should be a concern for us.

Its happened already, just not caught on big. Havent you seen SEARS dentists advertised?
 

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As future dentists, it will be up to us to fight these things happening to dentistry (walmart & sears dental, foreign school accreditation etc.) by collectively working together.

Medicine was torn apart due to the lack of collective effort (e.g.- some docs fight insurance while others couldn't care less and accept lower compensation etc.).

Dentistry is booming and will continue to do so as long as we back it. We are the future of dentistry(at least in the U.S.) so how it turns out is up to us.
 
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Its happened already, just not caught on big. Havent you seen SEARS dentists advertised?

Yes i have, and your right it hasnt caught on big. ADA is starting to allow group and chain practices to be open...and it has all been succesful. It may not take long for walmart and costco to take part in this business, and then it might catch on big. I feel as though dentistry is a bit harder to coporate since we focus primarily on labor and medical procedures as oppose to optom and pharm which focus on products. but still, we should obtain more knowledge about this and hopefully do what we can in the future to preserve our profession.
 

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As future dentists, it will be up to us to fight these things happening to dentistry (walmart & sears dental, foreign school accreditation etc.) by collectively working together.

Medicine was torn apart due to the lack of collective effort (e.g.- some docs fight insurance while others couldn't care less and accept lower compensation etc.).

Dentistry is booming and will continue to do so as long as we back it. We are the future of dentistry(at least in the U.S.) so how it turns out is up to us.

Nicely said :thumbup:

But how? As a dentist i plan to make my contributions to the ADA...for now thats all ive got.
 

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net income implies take home. It's your gross minus your costs.


Are you counting income tax as a cost? If dentists are "taking home" $300k, they must be making at least $500k. Physician surveys always show gross income (i.e., after overheads and before taxes), not net. Maybe the net they meant is revenue - cost?
 

Streetwolf

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I think specialists can make over 800k/year but they take home about 300k.

I think...

I mean it makes sense... if you get 5k for every set of braces you put on a kid's teeth, you just need 160 kids to make 800k (each year). Not to mention all the other things you could get paid for.
 

LNinlove

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If dentistry turns out to be like pharm and optom and there are chains popping up all over...I quit already. There are tons of "perfect teeth" offices open in my town and they honestly give dentistry a bad name. My wife went to one ONCE because our insurance at the time only gave us that option and she was horrified when she was done. The dentist was yelling at his assitant because she couldn't take x-rays right...I couldn't believe it! That, to me, is an embarassment to the profession!

I understand the business side of things...some dentist/s is making a crap load of money because he started this chain...however, quality control drops dramatically in my opinion....

I don't know...am I being naive?
 
J

jackbauer!

Are you counting income tax as a cost? If dentists are "taking home" $300k, they must be making at least $500k. Physician surveys always show gross income (i.e., after overheads and before taxes), not net. Maybe the net they meant is revenue - cost?

the average salary reported is the gross take home pay (revenue - overhead)....this is the pre-tax.

jb!:)
 

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As future dentists, it will be up to us to fight these things happening to dentistry (walmart & sears dental, foreign school accreditation etc.) by collectively working together.

Medicine was torn apart due to the lack of collective effort (e.g.- some docs fight insurance while others couldn't care less and accept lower compensation etc.).

Dentistry is booming and will continue to do so as long as we back it. We are the future of dentistry(at least in the U.S.) so how it turns out is up to us.


Having dental offices in Walmart and Sears will only lower the price of dental care for those who drastically need it. Too many people in this country lack basic dental care, especially children. It's not enough to just open up your own practice and talk about preventative dentistry you actually have to get your hands dirty. If Walmart or Sears open up shop I would work their one day a week even if at a reduced wage, because of the convenience to the patients.
 

rals

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I think specialists can make over 800k/year but they take home about 300k.

I think...

I mean it makes sense... if you get 5k for every set of braces you put on a kid's teeth, you just need 160 kids to make 800k (each year). Not to mention all the other things you could get paid for.

you're forgetting to factor in a ton of overhead costs.
 

SHC1984

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According to www.salary.com Orthodontist make around 150K and thats it. Is this true?? look for yourself...

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...hcare -- Practitioners&yearsofexp=&#makeitloc


I think specialists can make over 800k/year but they take home about 300k.

I think...

I mean it makes sense... if you get 5k for every set of braces you put on a kid's teeth, you just need 160 kids to make 800k (each year). Not to mention all the other things you could get paid for.
 
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the ortho that i shadowed makes around a 600k/year
 

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This information is acutally really good!! so stop the sarcasm. For example, I didn't know someone in speciality make over 300K, I thought it was like 200K. 300K sounds good to me... Lets just hope I can get into ORTHO school!! Does an Orthodontist really make over 300K??? I went to many many many salary websites and look through MANY books and they always have an orthodontists making almost 200K and no where near 300K. So how much does an Orthodontist make??? (please let me know so I can decide if its worth it my time to go into...:) )

it will be if you truly love it...otherwise, don't! you'll be heavy i debt and will be heavily tempted to just start working.
 

Drill2Fill

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I believe alot of those wage summaries are completely wrong.
 

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I understand the desire to give dental care to everyone regardless of socioeconomic status, in fact that is one of my main reasons for going to d-school. However, Sears and Walmart dental would NOT benefit these patients in the long run. Walmart operates on the idea of cheap labor+ cheap prices= cheap quality work. When a corporation steps in, they are gonna work you to the bone to produce, produce and produce some more. If this comes at the expense of a few restorations not being very high quality, do you think they are going to care? No, they just care how much $$$ you can make for them! Spend a little time on DentalTown and read some experiences of dentists working in "mills", most didn't even last a year in those type practices because of all the above mentioned factors!

I'm all about clinics for the underserved and volunteering your time/skills, but working in a Walmart/Sears type practice is by no means a charity. It is a business that makes $$$ for the corporation and in turn reduces the quality of care the patient would recieve.

We are in fact one of the last "virgin" healthcare fields. Pharm and Optometry were cheapened by major chains, medicine now has insurance providers dictating how they should provide care for their patients (personally I always thought the doctor went to school to learn how to provide the best patient care, not some stuffy insurance guy with an MBA!). It really is up to us to stop that from happening to dentistry. I personally will try my best to be active in the ASDA and ADA to make my voice heard. If we all work to stop it then we will eventually win.
 

EmanUT

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I am pretty sure that internet salary sites, like www.salary.com, give the average income for employees. So the professionals surveyed there are not in private practice. For instance, the orthodontist who makes $160,000 is employeed by Castle Dental or whatever. The orthodontist who works for himself brings home the $300,000+ . If you want to know what a doc in private practice makes, go by the ADA survey. But remember, dentistry is what you make of it. The amount of time you work, the procedures you do and your patient population determine your income.
 

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Having dental offices in Walmart and Sears will only lower the price of dental care for those who drastically need it. Too many people in this country lack basic dental care, especially children. It's not enough to just open up your own practice and talk about preventative dentistry you actually have to get your hands dirty. If Walmart or Sears open up shop I would work their one day a week even if at a reduced wage, because of the convenience to the patients.

You make working at walmart sound kind of like charity work or volunteer work. People who drastically need dental care have options such as dental schools and there are also free clinics. Heck, you could even offer cheaper oral care to your patients on certain days or whatever. I'm all for getting my hands "dirty," but do not confuse charity work with corporate work. If walmarts start opening..and they take all and any sort of insurance available...it will become a strong competitor among private practices. if it gains enough momentum, it can slowly but eventually change dentistry in terms of lifestyle, image, dignity, and financial compensation. Make no mistake, corporations like walmart are out to make a quick buck...so i would imagine their mode of practice would be something of a dental mill. This could strip us of our autonomy and our creativity..which may even lead to lowering of quality. if you choose to dedicate your service at a cheaper price...more power to you. but there are alternative options that are actually committed to that purpose...i doubt walmart is one of them. further, we don't want dental professionals working next to the toy section of walmart. what would that do to our image? We dentist/prospective dentist take pride in our autonomy...the quality of our service...aesthetics...lifestyle...and also our sweet pay check. If dentistry becomes coporated much like that of optometry...all of that could be gone. Of course, things may not become this bad...but im merely suggesting a potential threat to our profession. I'm sure optom and pharm didnt expect their mode of practice to change so drastically in matter of a few decades. we dentist should learn from these professions and do our part to keep your profession "booming," as the OP eloquently put it.
 

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I understand the desire to give dental care to everyone regardless of socioeconomic status, in fact that is one of my main reasons for going to d-school. However, Sears and Walmart dental would NOT benefit these patients in the long run. Walmart operates on the idea of cheap labor+ cheap prices= cheap quality work. When a corporation steps in, they are gonna work you to the bone to produce, produce and produce some more. If this comes at the expense of a few restorations not being very high quality, do you think they are going to care? No, they just care how much $$$ you can make for them! Spend a little time on DentalTown and read some experiences of dentists working in "mills", most didn't even last a year in those type practices because of all the above mentioned factors!

I'm all about clinics for the underserved and volunteering your time/skills, but working in a Walmart/Sears type practice is by no means a charity. It is a business that makes $$$ for the corporation and in turn reduces the quality of care the patient would recieve.

We are in fact one of the last "virgin" healthcare fields. Pharm and Optometry were cheapened by major chains, medicine now has insurance providers dictating how they should provide care for their patients (personally I always thought the doctor went to school to learn how to provide the best patient care, not some stuffy insurance guy with an MBA!). It really is up to us to stop that from happening to dentistry. I personally will try my best to be active in the ASDA and ADA to make my voice heard. If we all work to stop it then we will eventually win.

haha...i guess you beat me to it. for the record, i was writing this post while your posted yours!
 

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I understand the desire to give dental care to everyone regardless of socioeconomic status, in fact that is one of my main reasons for going to d-school. However, Sears and Walmart dental would NOT benefit these patients in the long run. Walmart operates on the idea of cheap labor+ cheap prices= cheap quality work. When a corporation steps in, they are gonna work you to the bone to produce, produce and produce some more. If this comes at the expense of a few restorations not being very high quality, do you think they are going to care? No, they just care how much $$$ you can make for them! Spend a little time on DentalTown and read some experiences of dentists working in "mills", most didn't even last a year in those type practices because of all the above mentioned factors!

I'm all about clinics for the underserved and volunteering your time/skills, but working in a Walmart/Sears type practice is by no means a charity. It is a business that makes $$$ for the corporation and in turn reduces the quality of care the patient would recieve.

We are in fact one of the last "virgin" healthcare fields. Pharm and Optometry were cheapened by major chains, medicine now has insurance providers dictating how they should provide care for their patients (personally I always thought the doctor went to school to learn how to provide the best patient care, not some stuffy insurance guy with an MBA!). It really is up to us to stop that from happening to dentistry. I personally will try my best to be active in the ASDA and ADA to make my voice heard. If we all work to stop it then we will eventually win.


Well said, but not enough free clinics exist. I personally don't want to do charity work without someone else paying for my malpractice insurance. People are so ready to sue in this country you can't just do free work for someone, even if you do great work. I personally don't want the Sears and Walmarts to take over dentistry either, but the economics of working in group practices or through corporations must significantly lower costs to patients.

It's the job of the dentist to ensure quality work. I agree that discount stores would push dentists to do too much too quickly, but show me how a free clinic could be in almost every city?
 

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Look guys I'm playing devil's advocate here to some extent, but the bottom line is only a small percentage of dentists volunteer in free clinics, most work only 4 days a week, and this entire blog seems to be about how many hundreds of thousands of dollars can I make in a year!
 

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Well said, but not enough free clinics exist. I personally don't want to do charity work without someone else paying for my malpractice insurance. People are so ready to sue in this country you can't just do free work for someone, even if you do great work. I personally don't want the Sears and Walmarts to take over dentistry either, but the economics of working in group practices or through corporations must significantly lower costs to patients.

It's the job of the dentist to ensure quality work. I agree that discount stores would push dentists to do too much too quickly, but show me how a free clinic could be in almost every city?

The free clinic i worked for had 2 maybe 3 on-staff dentist. The rest were volunteers who showed up on specified days. the clinics were not like mills because the dentist were given complete autonomy...one of the dentist also happened to be the director. So their highest priority and only interest is to relieve patients of their oral pains and complications. sure they had a lot of patients and they worked ...im going to avoid saying quickly...more so efficiently. but that didnt compromise there quality of work because there isnt a quota to fill by the end. perhaps at a coporate setting...their will also be a high number of patients...but in this setting, whats best for the patient must be balanced out with the interest of the coporate setting. its a difference in mentality and approach.
 

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Look guys I'm playing devil's advocate here to some extent, but the bottom line is only a small percentage of dentists volunteer in free clinics, most work only 4 days a week, and this entire blog seems to be about how many hundreds of thousands of dollars can I make in a year!

I promise you, my interest and highest priority in this argument is to preserve the image and autonomy of dentistry. i would be lying to say i didnt enjoy the financial rewards dentistry offers...but that is a perk.
 

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Good post drpduck!

The best thing you can (and should) do to help preserve the profession you want to enter is join pre-dental ASDA. This will look awesome on your application as well. (Lobbyists have an easier job if they can say "I represent 90% of our profession, as opposed to the AMA, who can't say that.)

So join! Join ASDA today!
 

Rev Balls

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As future dentists, it will be up to us to fight these things happening to dentistry (walmart & sears dental, foreign school accreditation etc.) by collectively working together.

Medicine was torn apart due to the lack of collective effort (e.g.- some docs fight insurance while others couldn't care less and accept lower compensation etc.).

Dentistry is booming and will continue to do so as long as we back it. We are the future of dentistry(at least in the U.S.) so how it turns out is up to us.
1) How can you fight such a thing as future dentits. Dentists can't fight things like that, but politicians can. If you wanna bring changes in ways anything is "working," you need to become a politician. Medicine wouldn't probably become the way it is if politicians fought for it.

2) However, you can play a role in the process. Just don't f...ing work for Wal-mart as a dentist. As dentits, we should be able to decide who to work for, or what our profession worths. As somebody said above, dentistry has a lot more to do with medical procedures and hands on things than fre...ing selling products. So, as a dentists, if you wanna sweat over some root canals , pulling out teeth, design nice dentures, and so on for less than a 100k a year, then go ahead. All i'll get to do is call you "cheap bast.rd."
3) However again, if ADA keep accrediting foreign dental schools, so there gonna be lots of "crapy" dentists out there who wanna work for those powerhouses for "crappy" money. The question is "what the f...k is wrong with ADA?" If ADA keeps behaving this way, what's the point of being member of ADA. If they are using our money to cheap out dentistry, then why don't we get rid ADA and come up with something new. Again, this is politics. But there is still good news for us folks, "become a specialist". Powerhouse wouldn't be able to provide more than a general care anyway. I doubt an Ortho....ist, an endo....ist, or an oral-maxillofacial surgeon would wanna work for a powerhouse.
....I could say a lot more about this subject, but i wanna see some responses first. Remember, i am a pre-dent as well, i am not somebody that came from nowhere and try to trash out this beautiful profession........

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Rev Balls----UPenn or Columbia Dental Medicine Class of 2011
 

drpduck

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1) How can you fight such a thing as future dentits. Dentists can't fight things like that, but politicians can. If you wanna bring changes in ways anything is "working," you need to become a politician. Medicine wouldn't probably become the way it is if politicians fought for it.

2) However, you can play a role in the process. Just don't f...ing work for Wal-mart as a dentist. As dentits, we should be able to decide who to work for, or what our profession worths. As somebody said above, dentistry has a lot more to do with medical procedures and hands on things than fre...ing selling products. So, as a dentists, if you wanna sweat over some root canals , pulling out teeth, design nice dentures, and so on for less than a 100k a year, then go ahead. All i'll get to do is call you "cheap bast.rd."
3) However again, if ADA keep accrediting foreign dental schools, so there gonna be lots of "crapy" dentists out there who wanna work for those powerhouses for "crappy" money. The question is "what the f...k is wrong with ADA?" If ADA keeps behaving this way, what's the point of being member of ADA. If they are using our money to cheap out dentistry, then why don't we get rid ADA and come up with something new. Again, this is politics. But there is still good news for us folks, "become a specialist". Powerhouse wouldn't be able to provide more than a general care anyway. I doubt an Ortho....ist, an endo....ist, or an oral-maxillofacial surgeon would wanna work for a powerhouse.
....I could say a lot more about this subject, but i wanna see some responses first. Remember, i am a pre-dent as well, i am not somebody that came from nowhere and try to trash out this beautiful profession........

---------------------------
Rev Balls----UPenn or Columbia Dental Medicine Class of 2011



I'll agree the ADA is annoying the crap out of me by allowing foreign school accreditation. I don't start dental school for another 6 months and already want to smack them! I believe the reasoning was that some states were going to allow foreign grads to come practice without advanced standing. So the ADA saw this and instead of fighting it, tried to take over and allow a universal accreditation process vs. state controlled accreditation.

I agree I can't fight this on my own, but like I said, everyone working together can. This includes belonging to the ADA, and trying to change things from inside out. A huge group with a high percentage of members of dental professionals will have power and certainly will have lobbying on behalf of the dental profession. Its just getting the ADA to change their mind as it stands.

I agree with simply not working for the Walmart/Sears/Dental Mills. By doing that you ARE making a difference because they won't have a business if there are no dentists to work for them!

Oh and I forgot to mention, I always have thought about getting involved in politics when I retire from dentistry many, many years down the road. The late Congressman Norwood from Georgia whom passed away only two weeks ago was a dentist.....
 
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