Dentistry not worth it. Period.

[Incis0r]

Really? When I tried to join they banned my account twice (I never even posted) because they said that I wasn't a member of the dental profession.

I was able to join no problems. There is even a pre-dental section on DentalTown.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Cello]

There is a pre-dental section on DentalTown, and I was able to join no problems. Plenty of pre-dents post there. See screenshot below for proof:

Oh, gotcha. But @coralteeth is presumably talking about the sections of the site where dentists post their advice, complaints, wisdom, and opinions. Do you have access to that as a pre-dent? I didn't have access until I had my midwestern email, but maybe I didn't try hard enough.

 

[Incis0r]

Oh, gotcha. But @coralteeth is presumably talking about the sections of the site where dentists post their advice, complaints, wisdom, and opinions. Do you have access to that as a pre-dent? I didn't have access until I had my midwestern email, but maybe I didn't try hard enough.

I have full, unrestricted access & am even a member of some private groups.

 

[NonTraDentalStudent]

I have full, unrestricted access & am even a member of some private groups.

Here's more evidence:

When you registered, do you remember what you entered for the "Occupation/Field of Practice" blank? That's where I get tripped up. If I try to choose Dental Student, the school name is required. If I choose "Other," the "Practice Name" is required...which I don't have.

 

[Incis0r]

When you registered, do you remember what you entered for the "Occupation/Field of Practice" blank? That's where I get tripped up. If I try to choose Dental Student, the school name is required. If I choose "Other," the "Practice Name" is required...which I don't have.

To register, I directly contacted DentalTown by e-mail, explained I was a pre-dental student, and they set up my membership for me.

 

[NonTraDentalStudent]

To register, I directly contacted DentalTown by e-mail, explained I was a pre-dental student, and they set up my membership for me.

Great, thanks for the info! I'd love to have access to this resource.

 

[Rand627]

I enjoy getting perspective, but making a statement that dentistry isn't worth is as an absolute statement is just nonsense. There are plenty of times when it's worth it, and there are plenty of times when it's not.

Dentistry being worth it or not is NOT an absolute as the thread tries to indicate.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

BS in Finance checking in. Being a dentist was and still is my dream, however the ROI just doesn't seem to be there when compared to other fields where you can still work in within the realm of healthcare. I just decided yesterday to redirect my pursuit of graduate school to PA school after six years of working towards preparing for dental school. I've been depressed about it for a while now, but unless you're going to your state school the amount of debt that you're taking on in order to become a dentist at a private or most OOS schools just isn't financially worth it. Especially considering the insurmountable loans you're accumulating not simply just to go to dental school, but also in order to buy out or start up your own practice. We're talking above over half a million dollars here that can reach up to a million dependent on various factors. This also doesn't account for the drawback that if you ever decide the career wasn't as glamorous as you made it out to be, there's no option of a career change at that point. You're too far in and you will have far too much debt to pay back to 1) Change careers, 2) Adjust your work/life balance, and 3) Relocate. This is just in most cases that I've noticed. You're also not going to see the ROI in dentistry until you're early to late 50's compared to your peers that chose to go into computer science, PA school, even podiatry has a higher ROI at the current moment. Anyway I'm not here to change any minds. I realize there will be some backlash to my reply. I'm even sad to post this myself because I feel like I'm giving up on my dream and what I'd call the ideal career for me. However, there are also other things just as important as your career if not more. Good luck to you all!

Same. Just barely too

 

[Cello]

To register, I directly contacted DentalTown by e-mail, explained I was a pre-dental student, and they set up my membership for me.

Way cool man, I wish I had known this earlier!

 

[EasTexan]

On Dentaltown, I was able to join and I'm not a dentist, a pre-dent, OR a dental student. My wife is, so I just explained it to them in an email (after being banned 3 times...)

Tons of good information on that site. On this topic you'll find a wide range of opinions, I think mostly stemming from the fact the there is such a wide range of backgrounds (non-trad, straight-through), schools, school costs, practice location, family setup (married, not married?), practice philosophy, business acumen, yada, yada. I think that sets people up for completely different outcomes and viewpoints.

 

[Manic324]

.

 

[Manic324]

I agree. People can work 70 hours a week as a general dentist if money is tight. Who's stopping them?

Um no dentists can't work 70 hours a week to make extra money. The reason doctors can is because there is endless, endless demand for physicians and those willing to work will make a ton of money. Dentistry on the hand.... not so much. Most dentists can't even get their practices to stay open more than 4 days a week because they don't have enough patients to cover the overhead.

Read this article: http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science and Research/HPI/Files/HPIBrief_1214_1.pdf?la=en

Not enough patients, because there are waaaay too many dentists. Most practicing dentists that were used in that study said they do not have enough patients, and are not busy enough.

 

[Symphonies]

As a side note to DentalTown it looks like they want the predental students to have taken the DAT already as well as being able to verify it, just a heads up

 

[Incis0r]

As a side note to DentalTown it looks like they want the predental students to have taken the DAT already as well as being able to verify it, just a heads up

This was not a requirement for me to join. Where'd you hear this?

 

[Symphonies]

This was not a requirement for me to join. Where'd you hear this?

I emailed them last night and that's what they told me this morning, so maybe I just got the short end of the stick?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Screwtape]

Um no dentists can't work 70 hours a week to make extra money. The reason doctors can is because there is endless, endless demand for physicians and those willing to work will make a ton of money. Dentistry on the hand.... not so much. Most dentists can't even get their practices to stay open more than 4 days a week because they don't have enough patients to cover the overhead.

Read this article: http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science and Research/HPI/Files/HPIBrief_1214_1.pdf?la=en

Not enough patients, because there are waaaay too many dentists. Most practicing dentists that were used in that study said they do not have enough patients, and are not busy enough.

The article states that 36% of all dentists surveyed said that they aren't busy enough.... so MOST are busy enough. Math much? And yes, I could probably work 70 hours a week if i wanted to next year if I wanted to. My back would break for sure though and I would have to work at multiple separate practices.

 

[ncide]

Um no dentists can't work 70 hours a week to make extra money. The reason doctors can is because there is endless, endless demand for physicians and those willing to work will make a ton of money. Dentistry on the hand.... not so much. Most dentists can't even get their practices to stay open more than 4 days a week because they don't have enough patients to cover the overhead.

Read this article: http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science and Research/HPI/Files/HPIBrief_1214_1.pdf?la=en

Not enough patients, because there are waaaay too many dentists. Most practicing dentists that were used in that study said they do not have enough patients, and are not busy enough.

Something like 50% of people go to the dentist.

 

[NonTraDentalStudent]

As a side note to DentalTown it looks like they want the predental students to have taken the DAT already as well as being able to verify it, just a heads up

This was not a requirement for me to join. Where'd you hear this?

I was told the same thing in a DT reply email.

 

[schmoob]

Um no dentists can't work 70 hours a week to make extra money. The reason doctors can is because there is endless, endless demand for physicians and those willing to work will make a ton of money. Dentistry on the hand.... not so much. Most dentists can't even get their practices to stay open more than 4 days a week because they don't have enough patients to cover the overhead.

Read this article: http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science and Research/HPI/Files/HPIBrief_1214_1.pdf?la=en

Not enough patients, because there are waaaay too many dentists. Most practicing dentists that were used in that study said they do not have enough patients, and are not busy enough.

UMMM yes they can work 70 hours a week to make more money because the demand IS there. If a dentist is not busy enough, there are options to increase patient base. If there was no demand, there wouldn't be any areas that lack access to care. Once again, and hopefully for the final time- dentistry is NOT oversaturated; there is however a problem with DISTRIBUTION. So no, there are not waaaay too many dentists.

UMMM where do you have statistics that SPECIFICALLY state that MOST dentists can't even get their practices to stay open more than 4 days a week, SPECIFICALLY due to overhead costs?

UMMM MOST practicing dentists are not busy enough? Most meaning >50%? @Screwtape already addressed this issue

UMMM This study was based on an annual survey of a nationally represented random sample of 4000-17000 dentists in private practice. For this specific study, there was an 18.4% response rate. Out of those 18%, only 36% said they weren't busy enough.

UMMM have you ever heard of literature review? Exactly what sort of study was this? Was this a systematic review? Meta-Analysis? Let me help you out:

See the bottom tier of that hierarchy? That's where your article would go IF this researcher is even given the title "expert." So the most valuable thing you can do with that data is print it out, and take it with you to the bathroom to use when you're finished.

UMMMMMMMMMMM I actually should give the researcher credit for providing references. Oh, wait a second....he provided names on 10 out of 12 of his references. UMMMMMMMM wait a second...is the researcher CITING HIMSELF on EVERY SINGLE ONE of his references? Yes, I believe he is.

So..UMMMMM......

Yeah.....

 

[8_man]

UMMM yes they can work 70 hours a week to make more money because the demand IS there. If a dentist is not busy enough, there are options to increase patient base. If there was no demand, there wouldn't be any areas that lack access to care. Once again, and hopefully for the final time- dentistry is NOT oversaturated; there is however a problem with DISTRIBUTION. So no, there are not waaaay too many dentists.

UMMM where do you have statistics that SPECIFICALLY state that MOST dentists can't even get their practices to stay open more than 4 days a week, SPECIFICALLY due to overhead costs?

UMMM MOST practicing dentists are not busy enough? Most meaning >50%? @Screwtape already addressed this issue

UMMM This study was based on an annual survey of a nationally represented random sample of 4000-17000 dentists in private practice. For this specific study, there was an 18.4% response rate. Out of those 18%, only 36% said they weren't busy enough.

UMMM have you ever heard of literature review? Exactly what sort of study was this? Was this a systematic review? Meta-Analysis? Let me help you out:

See the bottom tier of that hierarchy? That's where your article would go IF this researcher is even given the title "expert." So the most valuable thing you can do with that data is print it out, and take it with you to the bathroom to use when you're finished.

UMMMMMMMMMMM I actually should give the researcher credit for providing references. Oh, wait a second....he provided names on 10 out of 12 of his references. UMMMMMMMM wait a second...is the researcher CITING HIMSELF on EVERY SINGLE ONE of his references? Yes, I believe he is.

So..UMMMMM......

Yeah.....

#straightsavage

 

[Dentalnerdz]

UMMM yes they can work 70 hours a week to make more money because the demand IS there. If a dentist is not busy enough, there are options to increase patient base. If there was no demand, there wouldn't be any areas that lack access to care. Once again, and hopefully for the final time- dentistry is NOT oversaturated; there is however a problem with DISTRIBUTION. So no, there are not waaaay too many dentists.

UMMM where do you have statistics that SPECIFICALLY state that MOST dentists can't even get their practices to stay open more than 4 days a week, SPECIFICALLY due to overhead costs?

UMMM MOST practicing dentists are not busy enough? Most meaning >50%? @Screwtape already addressed this issue

UMMM This study was based on an annual survey of a nationally represented random sample of 4000-17000 dentists in private practice. For this specific study, there was an 18.4% response rate. Out of those 18%, only 36% said they weren't busy enough.

UMMM have you ever heard of literature review? Exactly what sort of study was this? Was this a systematic review? Meta-Analysis? Let me help you out:

See the bottom tier of that hierarchy? That's where your article would go IF this researcher is even given the title "expert." So the most valuable thing you can do with that data is print it out, and take it with you to the bathroom to use when you're finished.

UMMMMMMMMMMM I actually should give the researcher credit for providing references. Oh, wait a second....he provided names on 10 out of 12 of his references. UMMMMMMMM wait a second...is the researcher CITING HIMSELF on EVERY SINGLE ONE of his references? Yes, I believe he is.

So..UMMMMM......

Yeah.....

This is from the Health Policy Institute/ ADA. If you're saying information straight from the ADA is crap then ok that alone speaks to dentistry's future. I looked around their site and all the research briefs they have released on job outlook are terribly depressing:

http://www.ada.org/en/science-research/health-policy-institute/publications/research-briefs

 

[321931]

Food for thought.
So I actually went ahead and am in the process of purchasing a practice myself. I just submitted a letter of intent. I looked at multiple and multiple places.
Some interesting information to think about.

If a practice is sold for hypothetically 500k and the the owner is making 150-200 depending on their collections, then after debt service you will be making 100-150k depending on variety of factors. Don't worry about the numbers. You will figure that out later in life.

After paying off the debt of the practice over the course of ten years, the income depending on fee schedule and added procedures will be anywhere from 100k-150k for 10 years or until I pay the note off. By then I will have an equity of the practice and an income of 150-200.

However, what if I had student loans at 5000 a month? What happens if I had a 2-3,000 mortgage? What about kids? How much would I make for 10 years 40k?, 60k?, 80k? 100k? What about retirement...?Am I good at business and management? I don't know. Would I buckle under the stress of being 1 million in debt?

But the good news is that I don't have anymore student loans, or mortgage or kids, so I think I will be alright. It's hard work, and for MOST people, it's an above average income. I went into dentistry with the expectation of 200-300k income and came out disappointed. I've toured way to many dental offices for sale and its true. THE AVERAGE INCOME is the AVERAGE INCOME. If you think you will be one of "those" guys making 300+...you will be sorely disappointed.

One of my coworkers married an anesthesiologist. We have thought about adding sedation into the office, but she said "you couldn't afford him for one day." It is true that MD work harder, longer, and probably tougher...but in my opinion they make way more dough then the AVERAGE dentist.

These are simply my opinions.

 

[schmoob]

This is from the Health Policy Institute/ ADA. If you're saying information straight from the ADA is crap then ok that alone speaks to dentistry's future. I looked around their site and all the research briefs they have released on job outlook are terribly depressing:

http://www.ada.org/en/science-research/health-policy-institute/publications/research-briefs

No, it isn't because this "research" is all done by the same person! And he is usually citing himself as a reference.
The articles you linked were researched by the same guy. He's like some one-man Institute.
The article that was linked earlier was so ridiculous that it actually garnered that strong of a response. There is ZERO usable data in there. I didn't even see a raw number of dentists that responded. From that point there are still so many variables that it's mindblowing. Age, geographic location, years in practice, etc. The data is unreliable.
A DDS/DMD is not an entitlement to live the good life. It does however, provide an excellent avenue to earn a very comfortable income. It takes hard work to get into dental school and it takes hard work to get through dental school. This means that there are lots of intelligent people in the field (not everyone, but there are many smart folks). These are the people that you compete with for income, as well those who were dentists before you and those who will be dentists after you. It takes more than the degree to do well. The work continues.

Food for thought.
So I actually went ahead and am in the process of purchasing a practice myself. I just submitted a letter of intent. I looked at multiple and multiple places.
Some interesting information to think about.

If a practice is sold for hypothetically 500k and the the owner is making 150-200 depending on their collections, then after debt service you will be making 100-150k depending on variety of factors. Don't worry about the numbers. You will figure that out later in life.

After paying off the debt of the practice over the course of ten years, the income depending on fee schedule and added procedures will be anywhere from 100k-150k for 10 years or until I pay the note off. By then I will have an equity of the practice and an income of 150-200.

However, what if I had student loans at 5000 a month? What happens if I had a 2-3,000 mortgage? What about kids? How much would I make for 10 years 40k?, 60k?, 80k? 100k? What about retirement...?Am I good at business and management? I don't know. Would I buckle under the stress of being 1 million in debt?

But the good news is that I don't have anymore student loans, or mortgage or kids, so I think I will be alright. It's hard work, and for MOST people, it's an above average income. I went into dentistry with the expectation of 200-300k income and came out disappointed. I've toured way to many dental offices for sale and its true. THE AVERAGE INCOME is the AVERAGE INCOME. If you think you will be one of "those" guys making 300+...you will be sorely disappointed.

One of my coworkers married an anesthesiologist. We have thought about adding sedation into the office, but she said "you couldn't afford him for one day." It is true that MD work harder, longer, and probably tougher...but in my opinion they make way more dough then the AVERAGE dentist.

This is excellent news. I have full confidence that you will do very well, because you've been doing your homework. Your actions are well thought out, and you are trying to make the most informed decision possible. You have no student loans: that alone is huge. And you have been to many many practices in your search, so that means you are looking for the right one. In 10 years you will have no practice debt, you will have a huge asset, and hopefully you will be doing very well for yourself.
Your approach involved critical thinking, and it is because of this you will continue to do well. And it is because of this, those who did not engage the same type of thinking will have a difficult time because they will be competing with people like you.

Congratulations on your new practice, I hope it goes well!

 

[Dentalnerdz]

No, it isn't because this "research" is all done by the same person! And he is usually citing himself as a reference.
The articles you linked were researched by the same guy. He's like some one-man Institute.
The article that was linked earlier was so ridiculous that it actually garnered that strong of a response. There is ZERO usable data in there. I didn't even see a raw number of dentists that responded. From that point there are still so many variables that it's mindblowing. Age, geographic location, years in practice, etc. The data is unreliable.
A DDS/DMD is not an entitlement to live the good life. It does however, provide an excellent avenue to earn a very comfortable income. It takes hard work to get into dental school and it takes hard work to get through dental school. This means that there are lots of intelligent people in the field (not everyone, but there are many smart folks). These are the people that you compete with for income, as well those who were dentists before you and those who will be dentists after you. It takes more than the degree to do well. The work continues.



This is excellent news. I have full confidence that you will do very well, because you've been doing your homework. Your actions are well thought out, and you are trying to make the most informed decision possible. You have no student loans: that alone is huge. And you have been to many many practices in your search, so that means you are looking for the right one. In 10 years you will have no practice debt, you will have a huge asset, and hopefully you will be doing very well for yourself.
Your approach involved critical thinking, and it is because of this you will continue to do well. And it is because of this, those who did not engage the same type of thinking will have a difficult time because they will be competing with people like you.

Congratulations on your new practice, I hope it goes well!

Your arrogance is astounding. You clearly don't understand research posting a pyramid with double blind studies haha are you stupid this isn't a drug trial it's freakin public health. And YES this is the ADA how are you denying that? Can you read?

 

[EasTexan]

Food for thought.
So I actually went ahead and am in the process of purchasing a practice myself. I just submitted a letter of intent. I looked at multiple and multiple places.
Some interesting information to think about.

If a practice is sold for hypothetically 500k and the the owner is making 150-200 depending on their collections, then after debt service you will be making 100-150k depending on variety of factors. Don't worry about the numbers. You will figure that out later in life.

First off congrats! That's awesome!

Assuming a practice was purchased at 60-85% of collections at $500k, it was collecting $600-850k. That owner needs to work on overhead, no?

 

[Incis0r]

UMMM yes they can work 70 hours a week to make more money because the demand IS there. If a dentist is not busy enough, there are options to increase patient base. If there was no demand, there wouldn't be any areas that lack access to care. Once again, and hopefully for the final time- dentistry is NOT oversaturated; there is however a problem with DISTRIBUTION. So no, there are not waaaay too many dentists.

UMMM where do you have statistics that SPECIFICALLY state that MOST dentists can't even get their practices to stay open more than 4 days a week, SPECIFICALLY due to overhead costs?

UMMM MOST practicing dentists are not busy enough? Most meaning >50%? @Screwtape already addressed this issue

UMMM This study was based on an annual survey of a nationally represented random sample of 4000-17000 dentists in private practice. For this specific study, there was an 18.4% response rate. Out of those 18%, only 36% said they weren't busy enough.

UMMM have you ever heard of literature review? Exactly what sort of study was this? Was this a systematic review? Meta-Analysis? Let me help you out:

See the bottom tier of that hierarchy? That's where your article would go IF this researcher is even given the title "expert." So the most valuable thing you can do with that data is print it out, and take it with you to the bathroom to use when you're finished.

UMMMMMMMMMMM I actually should give the researcher credit for providing references. Oh, wait a second....he provided names on 10 out of 12 of his references. UMMMMMMMM wait a second...is the researcher CITING HIMSELF on EVERY SINGLE ONE of his references? Yes, I believe he is.

So..UMMMMM......

Yeah.....

Schmoob going ham at 4:53 am!

 

[Steins;Gate]

Food for thought.
So I actually went ahead and am in the process of purchasing a practice myself. I just submitted a letter of intent. I looked at multiple and multiple places.
Some interesting information to think about.

If a practice is sold for hypothetically 500k and the the owner is making 150-200 depending on their collections, then after debt service you will be making 100-150k depending on variety of factors. Don't worry about the numbers. You will figure that out later in life.

After paying off the debt of the practice over the course of ten years, the income depending on fee schedule and added procedures will be anywhere from 100k-150k for 10 years or until I pay the note off. By then I will have an equity of the practice and an income of 150-200.

However, what if I had student loans at 5000 a month? What happens if I had a 2-3,000 mortgage? What about kids? How much would I make for 10 years 40k?, 60k?, 80k? 100k? What about retirement...?Am I good at business and management? I don't know. Would I buckle under the stress of being 1 million in debt?

But the good news is that I don't have anymore student loans, or mortgage or kids, so I think I will be alright. It's hard work, and for MOST people, it's an above average income. I went into dentistry with the expectation of 200-300k income and came out disappointed. I've toured way to many dental offices for sale and its true. THE AVERAGE INCOME is the AVERAGE INCOME. If you think you will be one of "those" guys making 300+...you will be sorely disappointed.

One of my coworkers married an anesthesiologist. We have thought about adding sedation into the office, but she said "you couldn't afford him for one day." It is true that MD work harder, longer, and probably tougher...but in my opinion they make way more dough then the AVERAGE dentist.

I can't say for the US but what I have been hearing is that a practice sells for 70% of production on average (depends on the area). If you're paying 500K for a practice, then you will likely be getting a practice that produces 650-700K. If you produce 650-700K, depending on the write-offs (which is how you'd calculate your collections) and your OH, I'd say taking home 200K is reasonable.

Separately in Canada, our corporate tax (in Ontario at least) is 10.5%. Yes, you heard that right. So our effective salary will be higher due to write-offs from our end as business expenses and putting money into our corporate shelter. I know that's not really the case in the US, but in Canada, corporation if you make a certain amount or above is very useful for your increasing of effective salary. That 200K in the example above would be higher than 200K by quite a bit.

Let's say you produce 700K on average (actually the ADA states that the average GP practice is producing over 700K and is closer to 800K) and you work 200 days a year. You're going to produce 3,500 a day. Producing 3,500 a day is easy for some, a bit tough for others, and pretty fair for many. Could be a crown, an endo, and some resto with very little hygiene. Could be a good amount of hygiene, an EXT, and veneers. Really depends on practice mix.

Here's the thing. Averages are averages. The problem with averages is that if you really wanted to do well, you'd be super careful in the following:
a) Scouting the dentist to population ratio
b) Scouting the average income of the population
c) Seeing if the average production/patient makes sense or is too high or too low (i.e. is there low hanging fruit to be available or there is overtreatment)
d) Expenses
e) Services offered (do they not do endo but you do, etc.)

If you're savvy about things, average is not something you should be saying "well that's what I'm going to be". If you really have good business acumen, keep doing CE that helps with production, do intraoral cameras and ipads to show patients they need treatment to increase treatment plans, drop the worst PPOs if you have enough patients, etc. then average is not your goal.

People have said it best that you're not handed money in this field. You don't print money. You have to earn it.

Doc, I love that you're careful about practice acquisition. That's really important and I'm sure you will be successful and enjoy the field of dentistry greatly.

One last thing, dentistry is not all about making money. It doesn't pay the best in healthcare (maybe per hour) BUT it does afford many things that are unique: hands-on work in a PP setting at your own pace with such a good profit margin, lots of procedures to do and refer if you don't like, control over hours and staff, a chance to hone business acumen for those who like that stuff, a chance to keep improving on procedures and adding to your arsenal via CE, stronger and more frequent patient interactions, etc. Dentistry has a unique blend of the advantages I just listed above. Once again, you (Rainee) and I are grateful to not have debt and dentistry is an amazing choice. For others, they really have to be super savvy these days and I wish future docs the best of luck.

Cheers

 

[rivarat]

Your arrogance is astounding. You clearly don't understand research posting a pyramid with double blind studies haha are you stupid this isn't a drug trial it's freakin public health. And YES this is the ADA how are you denying that? Can you read?

Oh man, do you have a lot to learn about dentistry and research. That pyramid is the hierarchy of evidence and well accepted in dentistry and all "freakin public health" fields.

It's time for you to back out gracefully.

 

[Weirdy]

I can't say for the US but what I have been hearing is that a practice sells for 70% of production on average (depends on the area). If you're paying 500K for a practice, then you will likely be getting a practice that produces 650-700K. If you produce 650-700K, depending on the write-offs (which is how you'd calculate your collections) and your OH, I'd say taking home 200K is reasonable.

Separately in Canada, our corporate tax (in Ontario at least) is 10.5%. Yes, you heard that right. So our effective salary will be higher due to write-offs from our end as business expenses and putting money into our corporate shelter. I know that's not really the case in the US, but in Canada, corporation if you make a certain amount or above is very useful for your increasing of effective salary. That 200K in the example above would be higher than 200K by quite a bit.

Let's say you produce 700K on average (actually the ADA states that the average GP practice is producing over 700K and is closer to 800K) and you work 200 days a year. You're going to produce 3,500 a day. Producing 3,500 a day is easy for some, a bit tough for others, and pretty fair for many. Could be a crown, an endo, and some resto with very little hygiene. Could be a good amount of hygiene, an EXT, and veneers. Really depends on practice mix.

Here's the thing. Averages are averages. The problem with averages is that if you really wanted to do well, you'd be super careful in the following:
a) Scouting the dentist to population ratio
b) Scouting the average income of the population
c) Seeing if the average production/patient makes sense or is too high or too low (i.e. is there low hanging fruit to be available or there is overtreatment)
d) Expenses
e) Services offered (do they not do endo but you do, etc.)

If you're savvy about things, average is not something you should be saying "well that's what I'm going to be". If you really have good business acumen, keep doing CE that helps with production, do intraoral cameras and ipads to show patients they need treatment to increase treatment plans, drop the worst PPOs if you have enough patients, etc. then average is not your goal.

People have said it best that you're not handed money in this field. You don't print money. You have to earn it.

Doc, I love that you're careful about practice acquisition. That's really important and I'm sure you will be successful and enjoy the field of dentistry greatly.

One last thing, dentistry is not all about making money. It doesn't pay the best in healthcare (maybe per hour) BUT it does afford many things that are unique: hands-on work in a PP setting at your own pace with such a good profit margin, lots of procedures to do and refer if you don't like, control over hours and staff, a chance to hone business acumen for those who like that stuff, a chance to keep improving on procedures and adding to your arsenal via CE, stronger and more frequent patient interactions, etc. Dentistry has a unique blend of the advantages I just listed above. Once again, you (Rainee) and I are grateful to not have debt and dentistry is an amazing choice. For others, they really have to be super savvy these days and I wish future docs the best of luck.

Cheers

Great anime.

Had Kurisu as my background for a while.

 

[schmoob]

Your arrogance is astounding. You clearly don't understand research posting a pyramid with double blind studies haha are you stupid this isn't a drug trial it's freakin public health. And YES this is the ADA how are you denying that? Can you read?

Ok.
-To give you the benefit of the doubt, when I said "No, it isn't," I was referring to your comment on the "depressing" outlook you mentioned. Honest mistake on your part, could've happened to anyone.

-Yes, my "arrogance." As mentioned above, that pyramid is called the Hierarchy of Evidence. It is an indicator of the quality of the study being conducted. It is not restricted to only drug trials. But I guess you're right, I clearly don't understand research. Can you teach me?

-I'm actually sincerely curious on this one: not only did you think this was restricted to a drug trial, how did you determine that a measure of income was "freakin public health?" Again, no judgement. But being the research guru, can you explain this please because like you said, I am clearly stupid and can't read.

-Finally, considering that I have alot to learn about research, am stupid, and can't read, what you were trying to say is that my "IGNORANCE is astounding." The next time you try to call someone out on things you know nothing about, at least take the LITTLE bit of effort to do a quick Google search to at least make people think you have some idea of what's going on around you, or have a sense of what you are talking about. This way, you don't end up looking so ridiculous again when that person responds.

Oh and FYI, you see what I did there in that last paragraph? That's called "Arrogance." Why don't you go do a "freakin public health" study on the prevalence of arrogance in dentistry. Just make sure you get the only researcher at the ADA's Health Policy Institute to do it, because he is clearly the world renowned expert on these sort of studies. Then you can teach me all about it.

 

[deleted632307]

Ok.
-To give you the benefit of the doubt, when I said "No, it isn't," I was referring to your comment on the "depressing" outlook you mentioned. Honest mistake on your part, could've happened to anyone.

-Yes, my "arrogance." As mentioned above, that pyramid is called the Hierarchy of Evidence. It is an indicator of the quality of the study being conducted. It is not restricted to only drug trials. But I guess you're right, I clearly don't understand research. Can you teach me?

-I'm actually sincerely curious on this one: not only did you think this was restricted to a drug trial, how did you determine that a measure of income was "freakin public health?" Again, no judgement. But being the research guru, can you explain this please because like you said, I am clearly stupid and can't read.

-Finally, considering that I have alot to learn about research, am stupid, and can't read, what you were trying to say is that my "IGNORANCE is astounding." The next time you try to call someone out on things you know nothing about, at least take the LITTLE bit of effort to do a quick Google search to at least make people think you have some idea of what's going on around you, or have a sense of what you are talking about. This way, you don't end up looking so ridiculous again when that person responds.

Oh and FYI, you see what I did there in that last paragraph? That's called "Arrogance." Why don't you go do a "freakin public health" study on the prevalence of arrogance in dentistry. Just make sure you get the only researcher at the ADA's Health Policy Institute to do it, because he is clearly the world renowned expert on these sort of studies. Then you can teach me all about it.

All Hail the Savage King.

 

[DDSER1]

Schmoob is my hero

 

[asdf99]

Foreign currency a lot of the time is worth less than U.S currency lol. The conversion rate isn't in your favor most of the time; also Europe's economy is awful lmao. We should be grateful for what we have in the U.S.

That Canadian -> US dollar exchange though