dentistry vs pharmacy

[s2s22s2]

this discussion has been made before, but I have a unique situation and would like some advice (I plan on posting this on the pharm forums too)

After college, I decided to do a 1 year science masters because I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I thought boosting my GPA would be beneficial. In my masters, they have a dental and pharm school affiliated with them and I would like to stay in this location (due to SO, family, money etc.)

now that being said the pharmacy and dental schools tuition in my location is insanely different. I'm talking about borrowing 87k a year vs 30k. Just looking at tuition for dental school in my area is insane. I don't have family that can pay etc, so I'm on my own here.

Do you guys have any advice for me? if you were in my shoes what would you do?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[NavyDDS1990]

It's simple. Start narrowing down from which profession you like more.
I don't understand how you're trying to decide your life-long career just solely based on cost of education.

 

[super frank]

Do you want to push pills in a CVS for the rest of your life?

 

[Buck-E-Badger]

Long story short, it's a bad time to be a pharmacist. EXTREME saturation, bargaining power of the big three against pharmacists, the government chokehold on pharmacists, lack of respect from the public and your patients, etc. all make it an awful field to be in at the moment. I'm a bit jaded of explaining my switch from pharmacy to dentistry (I was in pharmacy for a semester), so I'll leave it at that for now. If you want my advice do anything but pharmacy and don't look back.

 

[Buck-E-Badger]

Do you want to pushing pills in a CVS for the rest of your life?

As much as pharmacy schools will tell you that there are so many opportunities outside of community/chain pharmacy, those opportunities are already limited and becoming more and more competitive each year. The reality is that most graduates will be working at a chain and for the most part all you do is get pressured to fill 500+ prescriptions a day, manage techs, get pressured and yelled at by management, get pressured and yelled at by customers, get disrespected by customers, get looked down on by doctors, the list goes on and on. As blunt as Rekker's comment is, it's not too far off.

 

[allantois]

Well, pharmacy might be saturated, but it doesn't carry such a great debt load.

 

[dr.d00m]

Both my parents have a pharmacy background and encouraged me not to pursue it for various reasons that echo @Luther2016 (over saturation, hard to get full-time hours for recent grads, patients are just numbers that you need to meet the quota for, etc.) so it wasn't too hard of a decision for me. Even though dental school costs more, it seems like the return on investment is higher currently than for pharmacy school.

In any case, don't let tuition prices dictate your choice. Choose based on what you enjoy more and where you can see yourself working for the next 40 odd years.

 

[deleted632307]

Long story short, it's a bad time to be a pharmacist. EXTREME saturation, bargaining power of the big three against pharmacists, the government chokehold on pharmacists, lack of respect from the public and your patients, etc. all make it an awful field to be in at the moment. I'm a bit jaded of explaining my switch from pharmacy to dentistry (I was in pharmacy for a semester), so I'll leave it at that for now. If you want my advice do anything but pharmacy and don't look back.

Did you go to a state pharm school with low tuition? My pre-pharm friends who went onto pharm schools seem to be content with their decision (but maybe that's because they haven't graduated yet).

 

[Buck-E-Badger]

Did you go to a state pharm school with low tuition? My pre-pharm friends who went onto pharm schools seem to be content with their decision (but maybe that's because they haven't graduated yet).

Yeah, I went to UW-Madison where the tuition was about $17k/year which is low even for pharmacy (I paid $8.5k for the semester). I was questioning pharmacy even before I matriculated however was convinced by my parents to try it for a semester while I applied to dental school, so I went with the cheapest option. I'd say that two thirds of our class were oblivious to the problems surrounding pharmacy as a result of the school doing its best to cover them up. The last third knew the current state of pharmacy and were content with working community/retail pharmacy or had their foot in the door with pharmacy execs., hospitals, or industry.

 

[deleted632307]

Yeah, I went to UW-Madison where the tuition was about $17k/year which is low even for pharmacy (I paid $8.5k for the semester). I was questioning pharmacy even before I matriculated however was convinced by my parents to try it for a semester while I applied to dental school, so I went with the cheapest option. I'd say that two thirds of our class were oblivious to the problems surrounding pharmacy as a result of the school doing its best to cover them up. The last third knew the current state of pharmacy and were content with working community/retail pharmacy or had their foot in the door with pharmacy execs., hospitals, or industry.

True, a lot of pharm kids assume that they'll be balling straight out of school. But so do a lot of dental students I guess

 

[s2s22s2]

It's simple. Start narrowing down from which profession you like more.
I don't understand how you're trying to decide your life-long career just solely based on cost of education.

I enjoy both fields for various of reasons. Cost, is just a factor I was adding, not my only reason to pick either fields.

 

[s2s22s2]

Do you want to push pills in a CVS for the rest of your life?

Yeah you're right, I guess I don't have a problem with monotony (as weird as the sounds lol)

 

[s2s22s2]

Both my parents have a pharmacy background and encouraged me not to pursue it for various reasons that echo @Luther2016 (over saturation, hard to get full-time hours for recent grads, patients are just numbers that you need to meet the quota for, etc.) so it wasn't too hard of a decision for me. Even though dental school costs more, it seems like the return on investment is higher currently than for pharmacy school.

In any case, don't let tuition prices dictate your choice. Choose based on what you enjoy more and where you can see yourself working for the next 40 odd years.

Thanks for the advice! I just get worried because owning my own practice is something I never was interested in and I know thats where most of your growth comes from as a dentist

 

[s2s22s2]

As much as pharmacy schools will tell you that there are so many opportunities outside of community/chain pharmacy, those opportunities are already limited and becoming more and more competitive each year. The reality is that most graduates will be working at a chain and for the most part all you do is get pressured to fill 500+ prescriptions a day, manage techs, get pressured and yelled at by management, get pressured and yelled at by customers, get disrespected by customers, get looked down on by doctors, the list goes on and on. As blunt as Rekker's comment is, it's not too far off.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[s2s22s2]

Yeah, I went to UW-Madison where the tuition was about $17k/year which is low even for pharmacy (I paid $8.5k for the semester). I was questioning pharmacy even before I matriculated however was convinced by my parents to try it for a semester while I applied to dental school, so I went with the cheapest option. I'd say that two thirds of our class were oblivious to the problems surrounding pharmacy as a result of the school doing its best to cover them up. The last third knew the current state of pharmacy and were content with working community/retail pharmacy or had their foot in the door with pharmacy execs., hospitals, or industry.

Every pharmacy student I spoke to is about the same group. I think I fall into the "content with retail pharmacy" category. I guess I have to do some soul searching

 

[super frank]

Yeah you're right, I guess I don't have a problem with monotony (as weird as the sounds lol)

30 years of pushing pills? Walking past the same candy aisles and Hallmark cards?

 

[LFA20]

this discussion has been made before, but I have a unique situation and would like some advice (I plan on posting this on the pharm forums too)

After college, I decided to do a 1 year science masters because I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I thought boosting my GPA would be beneficial. In my masters, they have a dental and pharm school affiliated with them and I would like to stay in this location (due to SO, family, money etc.)

now that being said the pharmacy and dental schools tuition in my location is insanely different. I'm talking about borrowing 87k a year vs 30k. Just looking at tuition for dental school in my area is insane. I don't have family that can pay etc, so I'm on my own here.

Do you guys have any advice for me? if you were in my shoes what would you do?

look into PA

 

[LFA20]

Do you want to push pills in a CVS for the rest of your life?

That's better than being in debt for 300-400k

 

[deleted632307]

That's better than being in debt for 300-400k

For some people, sure.

This is also assuming that you get into a cheap pharm school (which is no guarantee).

USC Pharm school is 52k a year for tuition alone.

 

[rhemsley]

That's better than being in debt for 300-400k

Debt won't last your entire career unless you totally are irresponsible. People on this site act as if that debt is unpayable. Will you have to be conservative out of school to pay it off in less than 10 years? Most likely. But will you not work for 20 years after that?

 

[super frank]

That's better than being in debt for 300-400k

It's better to fill prescription bottles for eight hours a day until you're 65 than to be in debt for ten years? Seriously? Sure you can make the argument that your work isn't your life. But if you have real work experience you'll quickly realize that 8 hours a day at an establishment certainly feels like you're spending majority of your life there.

 

[321931]

Out of all my friends in the workforce, my pharmacist friends have it the best. 401k matching, paid time off 2-3 weeks off, all clearing more than 200k, full benefits, minimal loans. Ol

You will never find that as a dentist.

However they got into their lead pharmacy position before the saturation and they also work really rural. They say with the oversaturation problem, pharm outlook doesn't look to good.

 

[allantois]

It's better to fill prescription bottles for eight hours a day until you're 65 than to be in debt for ten years? Seriously? Sure you can make the argument that your work isn't your life. But if you have real work experience you'll quickly realize that 8 hours a day at an establishment certainly feels like you're spending majority of your life there.

What a ridiculous statement. Any job can become monotone. Drilling and filling teeth all day is not only monotone, but also back breaking. If OP can get that pharmD degree for 120k, he could easily pay it off in 2-3 years. Good luck repaying that dental loan in 10 years. Even if pharmacy becomes saturated that everyone has to float, a pharmacist could easily work for 30h a week, make that 80-90k, and leave work at work when he goes home; all without having to worry about patients, school loans, or running a business. To each his own.

 

[rhemsley]

What a ridiculous statement. Any job can become monotone. Drilling and filling teeth all day is not only monotone, but also back breaking. If OP can get that pharmD degree for 120k, he could easily pay it off in 2-3 years. Good luck repaying that dental loan in 10 years. Even if pharmacy becomes saturated that everyone has to float, a pharmacist could easily work for 30h a week, make that 80-90k, and leave work at work when he goes at home, without having to worry about patients, school loans, or running a business.

Paying off loans in 10 years is absolutely realistic for most. Most will be making at least 80k post-tax and will have an SO or spouse's income within 10 years of graduating to throw at debt. If one puts half of their income toward the debt, you could pay 400k in at most 10 years.

 

[super frank]

What a ridiculous statement. Any job can become monotone. Drilling and filling teeth all day is not only monotone, but also back breaking. If OP can get that pharmD degree for 120k, he could easily pay it off in 2-3 years. Good luck repaying that dental loan in 10 years. Even if pharmacy becomes saturated that everyone has to float, a pharmacist could easily work for 30h a week, make that 80-90k, and leave work at work when he goes home; all without having to worry about patients, school loans, or running a business. To each his own.

I really don't see interacting with others and improving others lives for your entire workday as monotone... but, to each his own. Plus, each case will be different. Maybe you can get a rush off of the changing decor of each pharmacy as a floater.

Didn't you switch to pharmacy? Enjoy!

 

[#cariology]

Something else to consider is the course material in both programs. There is a LOT of chemistry in pharm school. My friends used to carry around stacks of notecards filled with biomolecules and pharmaceutics over the course of 3 semesters of medicinal chemistry (and another semester of pharmaceutical chemistry just for good measure). They also took multiple courses in pharmacology and biochemistry. This is a very different education than the one you get in dental school, which is more biology and definitely less chemistry. You have to make it through years of education, so definitely factor in what you prefer to study.

 

[deleted632307]

Pharmacy can get you into mad debt too.

USC's total CoA is 320k before factoring in interest. Average retail salary for pharmacy is 120K, but unlike dentistry, there's minimal wage increase (and less freedom with respect to work location because of saturation in the field).

Even corporate dentistry where I am will pay you (on average) 120K, 150K, and 180K in years 1 to 3.

 

[s2s22s2]

30 years of pushing pills? Walking past the same candy aisles and Hallmark cards?

I worked at a pharm tech last year, I know what the job consist of. I don't care what I walk past? lol seriously
I'm also working as a dental assistant now.

 

[s2s22s2]

look into PA

I did, but I don't think I would enjoy that type of setting.

 

[s2s22s2]

Something else to consider is the course material in both programs. There is a LOT of chemistry in pharm school. My friends used to carry around stacks of notecards filled with biomolecules and pharmaceutics over the course of 3 semesters of medicinal chemistry (and another semester of pharmaceutical chemistry just for good measure). They also took multiple courses in pharmacology and biochemistry. This is a very different education than the one you get in dental school, which is more biology and definitely less chemistry. You have to make it through years of education, so definitely factor in what you prefer to study.

Yes! My current masters is in biology. I have taken pharmacology, biochemistry, and immunology. I did well and I actually enjoyed chemistry. But yeah, I know pharm is a lot more advance

 

[s2s22s2]

Pharmacy can get you into mad debt too.

USC's total CoA is 320k before factoring in interest. Average retail salary for pharmacy is 120K, but unlike dentistry, there's minimal wage increase (and less freedom with respect to work location because of saturation in the field).

Even corporate dentistry where I am will pay you (on average) 120K, 150K, and 180K in years 1 to 3.

Yes if you look at my original post, the max loan I would be taking is 30k a year in pharm. Where my top choice of dental school (same area) is 87k -_- I had no idea dental was so expensive. Definitely makes my decision more difficult.

I also don't live in CA and nowhere near it lol

 

[deleted632307]

Yes if you look at my original post, the max loan I would be taking is 30k a year in pharm. Where my top choice of dental school (same area) is 87k -_- I had no idea dental was so expensive. Definitely makes my decision more difficult.

I also don't live in CA and nowhere near it lol

Based on your posts in this thread, it sounds like you're leaning towards pharm.

Take the PCAT, apply to pharm school, and run with it!

 

[s2s22s2]

Based on your posts in this thread, it sounds like you're leaning towards pharm.

Take the PCAT, apply to pharm school, and run with it!

Yeah, I work as a dental assistant now and I do enjoy the work and being your own boss has its benefits. I graduate from my masters in May, so I have a few more months to think about it before I decide what exam I want to study for!

 

[super frank]

Yeah, I work as a dental assistant now and I do enjoy the work and being your own boss has its benefits. I graduate from my masters in May, so I have a few more months to think about it before I decide what exam I want to study for!

Good luck!!

 

[s2s22s2]

Paying off loans in 10 years is absolutely realistic for most. Most will be making at least 80k post-tax and will have an SO or spouse's income within 10 years of graduating to throw at debt. If one puts half of their income toward the debt, you could pay 400k in at most 10 years.

I agree! I do believe 400k is doable in 10-15 years, especially with spouses income. My husband is a first year in medical school, by the time his income will contribute will be awhile lol

I probably will end up helping him first hahaha

 

[LFA20]

Paying off loans in 10 years is absolutely realistic for most. Most will be making at least 80k post-tax and will have an SO or spouse's income within 10 years of graduating to throw at debt. If one puts half of their income toward the debt, you could pay 400k in at most 10 years.

if you think it's easy to find a spouse when you are 300-400k in the hole then you've got to think again...

 

[rhemsley]

if you think it's easy to find a spouse when you are 300-400k in the hole then you've got to think again...

A) I have one already.
B) Do you speak from experience or are you just saying your opinion?
C) If your search for a spouse is leading you to that level of materialism, then you should probably change where you're looking.

Anecdotally, most people I know would be more interested in dating someone going to dental school, not less.

 

[allantois]

A) I have one already.
B) Do you speak from experience or are you just saying your opinion?
C) If your search for a spouse is leading you to that level of materialism, then you should probably change where you're looking.

Anectodally, most people I know would be more interested in dating someone going to dental school, not less.

Lmao, people in this thread are planning to live on spousal income all while they are repaying their debt. Something tells me, it's people in this thread that are materialistically oriented in the search of a spouse. At the end of the day, they would have to find one that makes decent money to support them both.

 

[LFA20]

A) I have one already.
B) Do you speak from experience or are you just saying your opinion?
C) If your search for a spouse is leading you to that level of materialism, then you should probably change where you're looking.

I'm speaking from experience. Gf is a pharmD who's been working at a pharmaceutical industry (4 years), her dad is a dentist. I asked her if I had 200k debt if that would change anything. She said "possibly". It's not about being materialistic. It's called being realistic. All her friends asked her why the hell you are dating this guy when he's a student? little do they know I have all my tuition paid for(by navy) and guaranteed job that pays 100k+ starting.

 

[allantois]

Btw I did not switch to Pharmacy.

I just don't believe in bashing everyone else's profession that's not your own.

 

[rhemsley]

Lmao, people in this thread are planning to live on spousal income all while they are repaying their debt. Something tells me, it's people in this thread that are materialistically oriented in the search of a spouse. At the end of the day, they would have to find one that makes decent money to support them.

Nobody ever said live off the spousal income, I said it's income that is real and exists so it can be used to help pay off loans.

 

[LFA20]

I did, but I don't think I would enjoy that type of setting.

you could specialize in dermatology, surgery, neuro. Program is only 2-3 years long and probably less than 100k

 

[rhemsley]

Btw I did not switch to Pharmacy.

I just don't believe in bashing everyone else's profession that's not your own.

Agreed, which is why I felt the need to post that debt is not unpayable and the long-term prospect of dentistry is what you make it.

 

[rhemsley]

I'm speaking from experience. Gf is a pharmD who's been working at a pharmaceutical industry (4 years), dad is a dentist. I asked her if I had 200k debt if that would change anything. She said "possibly". It's not about being materialistic. It's called being realistic. All her friends asked her why the hell you are dating this guy when he's a student? little do they know I have all my tuition paid for(by navy) and guaranteed job that pays 100k+ starting.

Being realistic about the huge amount of debt is absolutely necessary, but being pessimistic isn't. If you do the actual numbers, you can absolutely pay off debt (in most cases) as long as you're okay living off of not a ton of money. I personally didn't grow up in a well off family where my dad was a dentist. I grew up in a family of 6 where my parents combined made less than 60k my whole life, so I'm not accustomed to fancy things or a cushy lifestyle.

As far as the spousal thing, it's your relationship so do you but if your girl would consider terminating your relationship because of how much income/debt you have that wouldn't appear healthy to most people.

 

[LFA20]

Lmao, people in this thread are planning to live on spousal income all while they are repaying their debt. Something tells me, it's people in this thread that are materialistically oriented in the search of a spouse. At the end of the day, they would have to find one that makes decent money to support them both.

LOL seriously... who's the one being materialistic?

also to add, most people outside of healthcare field have NO clue how high tuition is. I told my friend who is an accountant the cost of my dental school (250k) and he was like WTF....

 

[LFA20]

Being realistic about the huge amount of debt is absolutely necessary, but being pessimistic isn't. If you do the actual numbers, you can absolutely pay off debt (in most cases) as long as you're okay living off of not a ton of money. I personally didn't grow up in a well off family where my dad was a dentist. I grew up in a family of 6 where my parents combined made less than 60k my whole life, so I'm not accustomed to fancy things or a cushy lifestyle.

As far as the spousal thing, it's your relationship so do you but if your girl would consider terminating your relationship because of how much income/debt you have that wouldn't appear healthy to most people.

First of all, are you married? So you said you did not grow up in a well off family and where your parents have to support 4 kids with less than 60k so you SHOULD know the magnitude of a 400k debt. How are you gonna save for retirement, buy a house, car, have kids, open a practice? What if there is a problem and you and your spouse can no longer make it work? You've got to take care of yourself first. Can't depend on ANYONE in today's world..

 

[rhemsley]

First of all, are you married? So you said you did not grow up in a well off family and where your parents have to support 4 kids with less than 60k so you SHOULD know the magnitude of a 400k debt. How are you gonna save for retirement, buy a house, car, have kids, open a practice? What if there is a problem and you and your spouse can no longer make it work? You've got to take care of yourself first. Can't depend on ANYONE in today's world..

If you had read the first post you had responded to you'd have seen that yes I am married. Secondly, I also said we will not be living off of a spousal income but will use what she makes toward the debt or toward living. At the end of the day, we're married so our income is joint. Third, the school I was accepted to will cost me less than 400k. Finally, again I will say I have run the numbers for my personal situation and by myself, I could pay off the loans in under 10 years without spousal income. I believe where you're coming from is a place of trying to help others understand the magnitude of the debt. That's not a bad thing, and is important for everyone to know. I'm coming from a place of trying to show people that yes, you can pay off your loans if you're conservative with spending and make intelligent decisions.

 

[s2s22s2]

By reading some of these posts I have decided my husband is going to be a fancy plastic surgeon lol

 

[Pharmkid952]

OP, depends on which you prefer. A lot of these posts are anti-pharmacy, but if you're lacking dexterity and don't enjoy the thought of sticking your hands in kids' smelly mouths all day, I doubt you'd enjoy dentistry. Of course, that's not all that defines the dentist's profession, but I believe it is synonymous with the idea that pharmacists are just pill pushers. Pharmacists actually rarely count; it's mostly the techs. Anyway, it's all about perspective. They are two entirely different careers and neither is an easy route. There are negatives and drawbacks within both professions and it is best to create a pros/cons list and seriously consider what best fits your interests. I would possibly shadow in each of these settings and familiarize yourself with what the profession entails. I'm also unsure why you are only limiting yourself to these two career options: Have you considered PA? If you base your career decisions based only on salary and monetary considerations, you're likely to be unfulfilled regardless of the career you choose.

 

[321931]

Just how like some people are short sighted and say pharmacy is just pill pushers....they are the same people that say dentistry is about helping people and doing different things everyday.

Newsflash. For every one patient that truly appreciates you, you will have 100 that say " I hate going to the dentist, my filling hurts, I hate needles, it's to expensive and don't want to come in ever." Helping people? I honestly believe medicine helps more people. I can only count on one hand how many people that have truly appreciated my work over 2 years.

Doing different things? Bread and butter is almost the same as pill pushing. Same thig everyday and carries a lot more liability and bitching from patients then just "pushing pills"... In addition when you go home you may worry about that ext that didn't stop bleeding and hope they don't end up in the icu. Pharmacy you just check out and you are done.


Let's not start with the myriad of headaches that come with ownership.

shadow and see what you truly like. Shadow a new grad 1-5 years out not an old dentist. Those days are long over. I enjoy how dentistry gives me the freedom to do whatever whether it's own my own business or temping for a while. For reference I finished loans early 200k and just chilling now.