Depression

[sheerin]

I received some advice from my professors and pre-health advisors and wanted to know whether it would be advisable to withdrawn from Organic Chemistry. This is my second time taking it[I failed the first time due to my 2nd and final exam because my depression got worse] And now finally I'm getting the help needed. I'm afraid receiving another bad grade will just cut off my chances of getting into pharmacy school. My other grades are okay, could be better.

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[ShadowRX]

1. When's your deadline to withdraw from classes without getting an F?

2. How are you doing right now in that class?

I don't want to offend, so I won't say anything about depression.

 

[Monalyce]

Does your school offer disability services? While the term "disability" conjures images of the physically disabled, most students utilizing disability services actually have invisible disabilities. Learning disabilities and mental health issues (anxiety and depression) actually make up the brunt of their case load. Basically, disability services exist to ensure that your disability, depression, does not situate you unfairly. This means that if your depression gets worse, disability services can work with you and your professor make reasonable accommodations such that you do not fail the exam on account of having a depressive episode.

I'd highly recommend looking into this for the future. In interviews, you'll need to be prepared to explain what happened and how you worked to solve the problem. Being proactive and getting the help you need to manage school is certainly commendable...a pattern of withdrawals without explanation is not.

Hope this helps!

 

[rxlea]

You can do a medical withdrawal including a retroactive medical withdrawal. Get a letter from your psychiatrist that can attest to your depression affecting your performance. It will be submitted to the department who can then decide if the grades can be changed. Your previous failed grade will be replaced with a W and the one you're in now will also be replaced.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

Yeah I agree with Lea... if you can receive a W rather than a low or failing grade then that will probably look much better when applying to pharmacy school. You will have a chance to explain yourself in your essays and/or interviews, and clinical depression is definitely a valid explanation. I'm sure you can overcome this if you get treatment and finish the rest of your classes strong.

 

[sheerin]

Does your school offer disability services? While the term "disability" conjures images of the physically disabled, most students utilizing disability services actually have invisible disabilities. Learning disabilities and mental health issues (anxiety and depression) actually make up the brunt of their case load. Basically, disability services exist to ensure that your disability, depression, does not situate you unfairly. This means that if your depression gets worse, disability services can work with you and your professor make reasonable accommodations such that you do not fail the exam on account of having a depressive episode.

I'd highly recommend looking into this for the future. In interviews, you'll need to be prepared to explain what happened and how you worked to solve the problem. Being proactive and getting the help you need to manage school is certainly commendable...a pattern of withdrawals without explanation is not.

Hope this helps!

Yep! Thats what my organic professor asked me to do and I am considering it and made an appointment, but at the same time I feel it wont make such a significant different to me, if my anxiety/depression is still there. I'm starting medication soon but finals are coming soon and wont make much of a help.

You can do a medical withdrawal including a retroactive medical withdrawal. Get a letter from your psychiatrist that can attest to your depression affecting your performance. It will be submitted to the department who can then decide if the grades can be changed. Your previous failed grade will be replaced with a W and the one you're in now will also be replaced.

I would be able to do for both semesters? I feel it will look odd for having a W for 2 semesters and taking organic for the 3rd time. I will definite try.

1. When's your deadline to withdraw from classes without getting an F?

2. How are you doing right now in that class?

I don't want to offend, so I won't say anything about depression.

The deadline passed, but I did look into in the withdrawn policy and I could withdrawn for a medicial excuse.

I'm around a C average right now, but ofcourse why should I get a C when it wasn't my fault.

The most trouble is during lab and lab is a huge part of the grade, and I'm having trouble focusing/performing well, my professor did give me the option to do some labs over, but the depression won't wear off.

 

[sheerin]

Yeah I agree with Lea... if you can receive a W rather than a low or failing grade then that will probably look much better when applying to pharmacy school. You will have a chance to explain yourself in your essays and/or interviews, and clinical depression is definitely a valid explanation. I'm sure you can overcome this if you get treatment and finish the rest of your classes strong.

yeah, I'm beginning medication and I was diagnosed with clincal depression, and it sorta gradually got worse and now I'm getting the help needed. I talked to my pre-health advisor he said I should just continue and just do well in organic 2.

 

[rxlea]

Yes, you can get a retroactive medical withdrawal and it will show as a medical withdrawal on your transcript. As tink said, you can explain yourself further in your essays if you wish, although I am not sure if they would demand any information surrounding a medical withdrawal.

 

[sheerin]

Yes, you can get a retroactive medical withdrawal and it will show as a medical withdrawal on your transcript. As tink said, you can explain yourself further in your essays if you wish, although I am not sure if they would demand any information surrounding a medical withdrawal.

Yeah, I could always leave it for the interviews, so it would look better if I just withdrawn, than suffer myself with another bad grade? And after meeting with the psychiatrist, i would be able to get a W for the F I received?

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I'd definitely try and get the retroactive withdraw so any lower/failing grades you received during treatment won't affect your GPA as much (it won't be as hard to bring up your GPA with better grades in the future). From my understanding depression is a fairly common issue so I don't see why disclosing those details in your application would harm you, however if they do require more information it sounds like your doctor would be willing to vouch on your behalf regarding diagnoses, treatment, etc.

 

[sheerin]

I'd definitely try and get the retroactive withdraw so any lower/failing grades you received during treatment won't affect your GPA as much (it won't be as hard to bring up your GPA with better grades in the future). From my understanding depression is a fairly common issue so I don't see why disclosing those details in your application would harm you, however if they do require more information it sounds like your doctor would be willing to vouch on your behalf regarding diagnoses, treatment, etc.

Thanks a lot. I'll definitely will be withdrawing. Thanks

 

[Moni526]

If you can pull at least a C, you will be fine! (That is considered 'failure' to some people)

 

[rxlea]

Just withdraw for medical reasons...you'll thank us later...

Just remember, you need to get the ok from your psychiatrist first.

 

[Monalyce]

Yep! Thats what my organic professor asked me to do and I am considering it and made an appointment, but at the same time I feel it wont make such a significant different to me, if my anxiety/depression is still there. I'm starting medication soon but finals are coming soon and wont make much of a help.

Remember that depression is a chronic disease. This means there is always a chance, even with medication, that it will come back. I'm not saying this to be negative, but rather to encourage to make preparations for the future. There is nothing to be lost by speaking with disability services and everything to be gained...think of it as having another person in your corner. The folks at disability services will get medical documentation so that you do not need to provide a letter every time something comes up. They will also work with you and your professors, even for something as soon as finals. I do you hope you will consider this and remember that they are there to help, and work with students like yourself every day.

 

[sheerin]

Just withdraw for medical reasons...you'll thank us later...

Just remember, you need to get the ok from your psychiatrist first.

Yeah, there is like 3 weeks till Finals and my therpaist is scheduling me with a psychiatrist soon. thanks

 

[sheerin]

Remember that depression is a chronic disease. This means there is always a chance, even with medication, that it will come back. I'm not saying this to be negative, but rather to encourage to make preparations for the future. There is nothing to be lost by speaking with disability services and everything to be gained...think of it as having another person in your corner. The folks at disability services will get medical documentation so that you do not need to provide a letter every time something comes up. They will also work with you and your professors, even for something as soon as finals. I do you hope you will consider this and remember that they are there to help, and work with students like yourself every day.

Actually, I'm going tomorrow, I have an appointment but I dont have the documents yet, gonna take a week or so. Yeah, I will consider it. Thanks again.

 

[Falokis]

Yeah, there is like 3 weeks till Finals and my therpaist is scheduling me with a psychiatrist soon. thanks

I would be very careful. I'm not claiming you aren't depressed, so don't take my next few statements the wrong way. You would be surprised how many people suddenly become mentally ill this close to finals. It might look a little suspect to some people. I actually had to medically withdraw from a semester in pharmacy school pretty late in the semester. I was told the only reason it was granted was because I had been talking with the dean for 2 months before I withdrew. I know your not in Pharmacy School yet, but remember they don't always work by the same rules as the main university. The university would have let me withdraw with out a problem, but Pharmacy School didn't have to let me come back and could have even wrote a letter (against me) to the people that decide if can withdraw.

 

[rxlea]

I would be very careful. I'm not claiming you aren't depressed, so don't take my next few statements the wrong way. You would be surprised how many people suddenly become mentally ill this close to finals. It might look a little suspect to some people. I actually had to medically withdraw from a semester in pharmacy school pretty late in the semester. I was told the only reason it was granted was because I had been talking with the dean for 2 months before I withdrew. I know your not in Pharmacy School yet, but remember they don't always work by the same rules as the main university. The university would have let me withdraw with out a problem, but Pharmacy School didn't have to let me come back and could have even wrote a letter (against me) to the people that decide if can withdraw.

Quit trying to scare the OP. A psychiatrist is there to diagnose clinical depression. They are trained to distinguish between those that are using it as an excuse to avoid finals and those that truly have a disorder. Same goes for disability services. They know what to look for. And, because of HIPAA, the OP doesn't have to disclose the reason for the medical withdrawal. The school won't know if he had depression or cancer!

 

[Passion4Sci]

Quit trying to scare the OP. A psychiatrist is there to diagnose clinical depression. They are trained to distinguish between those that are using it as an excuse to avoid finals and those that truly have a disorder. Same goes for disability services. They know what to look for. And, because of HIPAA, the OP doesn't have to disclose the reason for the medical withdrawal. The school won't know if he had depression or cancer!

Soldiers faked out Psychiatrists all day long to avoid deployment. There's no reason to figure that civilian MDs would be any better...

Just another viewpoint.

 

[rxlea]

Soldiers faked out Psychiatrists all day long to avoid deployment. There's no reason to figure that civilian MDs would be any better...

Just another viewpoint.

Fair enough. But, do you think a pharmacy school would look negatively on a medical withdrawal?

 

[Falokis]

Quit trying to scare the OP. A psychiatrist is there to diagnose clinical depression. They are trained to distinguish between those that are using it as an excuse to avoid finals and those that truly have a disorder. Same goes for disability services. They know what to look for. And, because of HIPAA, the OP doesn't have to disclose the reason for the medical withdrawal. The school won't know if he had depression or cancer!

I wasn't trying to scare anyone. I'm not one of the SDN elitist that try to scare or put down everyone. I always try to give constructive advice.

That being said, there is no definitive testing for depression. It's based off a list of symptoms and the doctor's opinion. It could be easily faked by anyone who can use Google and half way act. Again, that being said, I'm not saying the OP isn't really depressed. I'm just saying it's convenient this close to finals and some other people might see it that way.

Fair enough. But, do you think a pharmacy school would look negatively on a medical withdrawal?

Will that make a difference? Probably not, but you never know.

 

[sheerin]

I would be very careful. I'm not claiming you aren't depressed, so don't take my next few statements the wrong way. You would be surprised how many people suddenly become mentally ill this close to finals. It might look a little suspect to some people. I actually had to medically withdraw from a semester in pharmacy school pretty late in the semester. I was told the only reason it was granted was because I had been talking with the dean for 2 months before I withdrew. I know your not in Pharmacy School yet, but remember they don't always work by the same rules as the main university. The university would have let me withdraw with out a problem, but Pharmacy School didn't have to let me come back and could have even wrote a letter (against me) to the people that decide if can withdraw.

Actually, its too late to be able to do a medical withdraw at this time, they will take my case in Fall '10 and will need medicial proof and my own statement and stuff like that. Yeah, its a bit too late at the moment and I called my therapist right after midterms, so yeah. I completely understand. I'm trying to also get a medical withdrawn from my previous semester too, not only this one.

You're right whether its just because of finals, but sometimes things happen and the process takes way too long. I actually sorta refused to see a therapist and when I did get severe symptoms, I went.

 

[sheerin]

Fair enough. But, do you think a pharmacy school would look negatively on a medical withdrawal?

I think they would, but at the same time not. Everyone goes through some sort of fall, just need to see if they get themselves right up.

 

[kcwang]

Retake the class, and dont worry about it too much. GPA is not everything. Take care of yourself before school!

 

[i ♥ pharmacy]

Fair enough. But, do you think a pharmacy school would look negatively on a medical withdrawal?

maybe, it makes for an excellent personal statement spin...especially if you can show how it made you a stronger person.

well, it worked for me...and every school i applied to gave me an interview, so for me, having so many W's didn't hinder my application...so, OP, you will be fine. good luck with everything!!

 

[sheerin]

maybe, it makes for an excellent personal statement spin...especially if you can show how it made you a stronger person.

well, it worked for me...and every school i applied to gave me an interview, so for me, having so many W's didn't hinder my application...so, OP, you will be fine. good luck with everything!!

Thanks so much! I'm happy someone actually understands my situation. I guess there is hope for the depressed. Did you continue the semester after you got help? I'm not sure if I should take a semester off.

 

[i ♥ pharmacy]

Thanks so much! I'm happy someone actually understands my situation. I guess there is hope for the depressed. Did you continue the semester after you got help? I'm not sure if I should take a semester off.

well, my situation is slightly different. i didn't take a semester off, but you have this summer to get stuff straightened out... but remember that taking a semester off is not a big deal, honestly.

pm if you would like to talk more. i've dealt with a lot and i know how much it sucks. you will be ok, i promise

 

[Sparda29]

 

[ShadowRX]

LOL

As in, laugh a little (more) in your life. Smile some more. Also, get some more sun. Sunlight helps.

 

[sheerin]

well, my situation is slightly different. i didn't take a semester off, but you have this summer to get stuff straightened out... but remember that taking a semester off is not a big deal, honestly.

pm if you would like to talk more. i've dealt with a lot and i know how much it sucks. you will be ok, i promise

I will pm. Thanks, I'm trying my best to get through this, and instead of going according to my guts and withdrawn from classes before the deadline everyone said I could deal with it, but its not always the case.

 

[b1234]

One thing that no one has mentioned so far is how well you feel you have learned or can learn the material. In a core class like ochem 1 - understanding and retaining the material is much more important that your grade. As long as you get at least a C you probably meet requirements at most schools and meet requirements to continue on and take ochem 2. A single poor grade - or even a few semesters worth of poor grades depending on the individual circumstances can be overcome. Not learning and understanding the core ideas and topics in ochem 1 cannot.

 

[StringTheorist]

It will look bad if you withdraw twice.No way around that. And after withdrawing once, the school will expect you to have a pretty decent grade since this is your second go-around on the material.
However, if you DO choose to withdraw again, there is a section on the college application where you can have the opportunity to explain any discrepancies on your transcript. Having depression is a very serious illness and of course it will affect your studying capabilities. You will have the opportunity to explain this to the admission committee, and fortunately, you are talking about licensed pharmacists who should know quite well how debilitating depression can be, especially to a college student.
If you can't pull of a B or above in this class, withdraw and try again, and be sure to explain your reasons in future applications.

 

[sheerin]

It will look bad if you withdraw twice.No way around that. And after withdrawing once, the school will expect you to have a pretty decent grade since this is your second go-around on the material.
However, if you DO choose to withdraw again, there is a section on the college application where you can have the opportunity to explain any discrepancies on your transcript. Having depression is a very serious illness and of course it will affect your studying capabilities. You will have the opportunity to explain this to the admission committee, and fortunately, you are talking about licensed pharmacists who should know quite well how debilitating depression can be, especially to a college student.
If you can't pull of a B or above in this class, withdraw and try again, and be sure to explain your reasons in future applications.

Thats how I felt, but its not the class that is pushing me down, its the depression, and I will definitely explain my issue, and it does look bad, but I'm just trying to deal with. it Thanks though =]

 

[sheerin]

One thing that no one has mentioned so far is how well you feel you have learned or can learn the material. In a core class like ochem 1 - understanding and retaining the material is much more important that your grade. As long as you get at least a C you probably meet requirements at most schools and meet requirements to continue on and take ochem 2. A single poor grade - or even a few semesters worth of poor grades depending on the individual circumstances can be overcome. Not learning and understanding the core ideas and topics in ochem 1 cannot.

Even how well you understand the material, the anxiety just catches up. At this point, I have panic attacks even thinking about taking an exam, its gottan worse, and even being on medication, it takes around 2-4 weeks to see progress, not enough to do well. I'm trying to get a medical withdrawn, just need to move on.

 

[paipailaau]

I'm in a similar situation. I failed physics 2 twice (F then D) as well as got almost all C's the semester (last spring) I first failed it. I started getting help for depression that same semester. I still got interview invitations. Talk about it in your essays, keeping in mind that pharmacy is a profession that helps people (including pharmacy students). Don't give up!

 

[IceScrewball]

I agree with most of what people are saying...go for the medical withdrawal. But, if I were looking at transcripts where all the other courses were average/okay grades, and there were two medical withdrawals for organic chemistry, that would be a red flag. The reason I say this is because there's no medical reason that I could think of that would somehow only affect organic chemistry and not the rest of the classes in the semester. For privacy reasons, the medical diagnosis probably isn't required to be disclosed, but if I were on an admissions team, I would need to know why the rest of the classes weren't withdrawn as well.

So, I guess that's something that the OP will need to address (even briefly) in a personal statement or interview - was there something specific about organic chemistry that made it impossible to learn with your disability? (Because I'm assuming that you've done okay in other hard classes like microbiology, calculus, etc.) You don't need to answer this on the forum, just think it over and make sure that you can answer that question to a prospective school.

 

[ShadowRX]

Even how well you understand the material, the anxiety just catches up. At this point, I have panic attacks even thinking about taking an exam, its gottan worse, and even being on medication, it takes around 2-4 weeks to see progress, not enough to do well. I'm trying to get a medical withdrawn, just need to move on.

Curious - what do you do to de-stress yourself?

 

[John87]

curious - what do you do to de-stress yourself?

For me, playing games for 15mins help alot!. Others that I know would exercise for an hour. DRINKING COFFEE JUST MAKE YOU MORE stress out but alert!!!

 

[Falokis]

Even how well you understand the material, the anxiety just catches up. At this point, I have panic attacks even thinking about taking an exam, its gottan worse, and even being on medication, it takes around 2-4 weeks to see progress, not enough to do well. I'm trying to get a medical withdrawn, just need to move on.

I won't BS you, this sounds like me last year. Acute anxiety can feel like depression. It destroys everything. I remember trying to do simple pharmacy calculations that were easy and I knew it, but I just couldn't do them. That, of course, made it worse. I got on a baby dose of clonazepam and BAM, I could focus. Seemed strange to me, but it worked like a charm and still does. I always thought I was a mello person, too. I guess not.

 

[ShadowRX]

For me, playing games for 15mins help alot!. Others that I know would exercise for an hour. DRINKING COFFEE JUST MAKE YOU MORE stress out but alert!!!

Well, I meant for someone like the OP that has depression. But that works too, for any stress.

 

[sheerin]

I won't BS you, this sounds like me last year. Acute anxiety can feel like depression. It destroys everything. I remember trying to do simple pharmacy calculations that were easy and I knew it, but I just couldn't do them. That, of course, made it worse. I got on a baby dose of clonazepam and BAM, I could focus. Seemed strange to me, but it worked like a charm and still does. I always thought I was a mello person, too. I guess not.

I have more of the depression symptoms than the anxiety, I don't wanna get personal, but appetite change, sleeping patterns changes etcc(more than 5 symptoms). Drifting from friends. Anxiety is sorta different, but sometimes it could be mistaken, but I doubt you wanted to be alone all the time when you did have acute anxiety.

I'll talk to the doc about BAM and clonazepam. Thanks.

 

[sheerin]

Curious - what do you do to de-stress yourself?

Barnes and Nobles <3.

Lacrosse.

You?

 

[Passion4Sci]

Barnes and Nobles <3.

Lacrosse.

You?

Only one Noble, Sheerin...

 

[Phoho]

Maybe I'm just out of my league here being ~25 years removed from pharmacy school but if you have serious depression then I doubt you could even graduate from one. Not saying it can't be done but from what I've seen it would be a miracle.

 

[ShadowRX]

Barnes and Nobles <3.

Lacrosse.

You?

So you de-stress by playing a sport generally played in 1 or 2 seasons, and you like to be at a bookstore. Anything else?

 

[sheerin]

So you de-stress by playing a sport generally played in 1 or 2 seasons, and you like to be at a bookstore. Anything else?

Friends, family, etcc. comedy shows. Yoga.

Why ask?

 

[rxlea]

Friends, family, etcc. comedy shows. Yoga.

Why ask?

Yoga is bomb

 

[ShadowRX]

Friends, family, etcc. comedy shows. Yoga.

Why ask?

Like I said, I don't want to offend. I don't want to explain my personal opinion on depression because, well, frankly I'll look like a noob and also you won't like what I say.

I'm trying to analyze without being offensive. I can come off as an insensitive jerk sometimes.

 

[sheerin]

Like I said, I don't want to offend. I don't want to explain my personal opinion on depression because, well, frankly I'll look like a noob and also you won't like what I say.

I'm trying to analyze without being offensive. I can come off as an insensitive jerk sometimes.

its alright, you can pm.

At this point, i couldnt care. lol.


And thanks everyone for your help. I filed for medical withdraw.