Did I miss this in another thread? UVA MS-1 expelled.

[Goro]

We’ve had maybe a dozen of these “omg the fascist/Stalinist administration at my medical school is threatening to RUIN MY MEDICAL CAREER and LIFE for No Reason (TM)” on SDN over the years, but the amount of self-ownage in this story is insane. The recordings are deeply concerning but the 4chan stuff is straight up scary.

The stories all follow a pretty basic structure:

1. A pattern of terrible or unacceptable behavior from a med student forces the hand of the administration.
2. Said student does nothing at all to improve or change their behavior and aggressively resists traditional routes of mediation and reconciliation.
3. Administration escalates the punishment.
4. Student posts all over the internet about how they are the victim of a horrible injustice and tries to drum up sympathy from strangers on the internet by broadly appealing to hysteria about SJW postmodern neo-Marxists or whatever trying to destroy Western Civilization and med students having very little power in confronting administrative power.
5. Internet gets the pitch forks and torches ready.
6. It comes to light that the “one-time, super small, nbd clerical error” from the student’s OP was a string of egregious conduct violations, maybe even serious breaches of the law.
7. OP disappears forever.

Just from the top of my head I can remember three instances just like this that played out on SDN in recent memory:

1. That Canadian medical student who was being expelled for a “small clerical error” who turned out to have forged every single signature on his last rotation as an M4 and was expelled like a month before graduating because the admin found out.

2. that time a student was expelled for secretly taking pictures of his classmates and posting them on pornographic websites.

3. This time with Mr. I-am-very-smart

Don't forget Eugene Gu!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

If wonder if med school adcoms go back and do post-mortem root cause failure analyses in situations like this to figure out how people slip through the cracks.

It's happened a few times at our school, with our worst of the worst students. The only pattern that emerged was that the majority of interviewers didn't like the candidate, and put him/her on wait list, and then said candidate was rescued either by the full Adcom, or the Dean (when it came to call up from the waitlist).

The trouble is that hindsight is always 20-20, and since the vast majority of us are not mental health professionals, those candidates with mental health issues slip by us. It might be that the coping skills these people have work in UG, but then are overwhelmed by the furnace of med school.

Lucca's summation above is 10000% spot on for what really happens with these students. It takes a lot of rope to hang a med student, and these people will gladly spool it out for themselves.

 

[Lucca]

Don't forget Eugene Gu!

Right lol I totally forgot about him. That one played out on Twitter more than SDN/Reddit but still huge self own. Although, iirc he accused sdn of being a white supremacist platform.

 

[jw3600]

Ben Shapiro only debates unsuspecting college freshman in front of other college freshman bc they are the only ones naive enough to think he’s saying anything remotely logical or intelligent

Are you serious?
Ben Shapiro is undoubtedly an dingus and has opinions I don’t agree with i.e pro-life, need for Christian-judeo foundation in society, existence of god and others, but to act like he’s not intelligent or is not good at debating is ludicrous. This is the kind of bland, generalizable, one size fits all argument that the far left makes that drives most logical people nuts. People on the left LITERALLY do no ****ing believe in discourse hence them making up a term making it impossible to do so: micro agressions.

 

[Osteosaur]

As opposed to???? Someone with a bachelors in it?

Personally I think some of the PC/SJW stuff goes too far but I’d much rather listen to someone talk about it who has dedicated real time and scholarship to it than just a random person who likes to tweet about it.

Honestly? I wouldn't. I don't think the peer review process in this area lends itself well to balancing out viewpoints. Its more of an echo-chamber. Even publishing sex-differences research in behavioral health is tricky these days. I can only imagine how much worse it is when you're studying something with fewer objective measures.

As much as I'd hate to say it, the bar for getting a Ph.D. in the "social sciences" is a lot lower than in biological sciences. They don't go through that humbling experience of being a lab rat for 2-3 years and having their soul sucked away by failure, coming in and leaving when its dark, and huffing a blend of mouse feces and formaldehyde.

As far as the original post is concerned I wonder how much of this has to do with people coming directly out of undergrad. In high-school and undergrad I've often felt there's a certain degree of admiration placed on that kind of argumentative style in the classroom. And then when people enter the workplace its a rude awakening when no one wants to put up with that nonsense. I've had a good experience at my medical school so far, but I have found our education on professionalism to be pretty poor. Less lectures on nebulous concepts like emotional intelligence, and more concrete stuff like how to get along on a team of people you don't like (so you can eventually lead that team), is probably more beneficial. Otherwise you end up with this trial by far with people who have never before had a boss.

 

[uname943]

Are you serious?
Ben Shapiro is undoubtedly an dingus and has opinions I don’t agree with i.e pro-life, need for Christian-judeo foundation in society, existence of god and others, but to act like he’s not intelligent or is not good at debating is ludicrous. This is the kind of bland, generalizable, one size fits all argument that the far left makes that drives most logical people nuts.

Complains about generalizations and one size fits all arguments.

People on the left LITERALLY do no ****ing believe in discourse hence them making up a term making it impossible to do so: micro agressions.

Proceeds to make generalization. Are you a hypocrite?

 

[operaman]

Full disclosure- had to google Ben Shapiro. Never heard of him before.

Looks like a conservative trying to carve out his own niche in the rights shock-jock arena a la Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. He has some occasional salient points but they seem to get lost amid so many of his extreme statements that are clearly designed to generate social media trending and hopefully lead to mainstream media pickups. Pretty much the same playbook the shockers on both sides of the aisle use.

He does hit on a good point about the restriction of speech on campuses and academia in general, the rabbit hole of identit politics, etc. Those same issues are certainly worth discussing and frequently are debated in liberal and conservative publications by much saner and more sober minds than Mr. Shapiro.

Unfortunately our former medical student friend here bought into the same fallacy that all shock jock types do, that winning an argument doesn’t necessarily make you right, and that being right doesn’t necessarily mean you win.

As my Dad has asked me my entire life whenever I’m ready to go off on someone: what do you hope to accomplish? Most of the time the goal and planned hotheaded action aren’t remotely compatible.

 

[jw3600]

Full disclosure- had to google Ben Shapiro. Never heard of him before.

Looks like a conservative trying to carve out his own niche in the rights shock-jock arena a la Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. He has some occasional salient points but they seem to get lost amid so many of his extreme statements that are clearly designed to generate social media trending and hopefully lead to mainstream media pickups. Pretty much the same playbook the shockers on both sides of the aisle use.

He does hit on a good point about the restriction of speech on campuses and academia in general, the rabbit hole of identit politics, etc. Those same issues are certainly worth discussing and frequently are debated in liberal and conservative publications by much saner and more sober minds than Mr. Shapiro.

Unfortunately our former medical student friend here bought into the same fallacy that all shock jock types do, that winning an argument doesn’t necessarily make you right, and that being right doesn’t necessarily mean you win.

As my Dad has asked me my entire life whenever I’m ready to go off on someone: what do you hope to accomplish? Most of the time the goal and planned hotheaded action aren’t remotely compatible.

Reasonable take. Do you have any examples of left leaning speakers that are concerned about restrictions on free speech in the realm of the social justice/politically correct issue?

 

[libertyyne]

Full disclosure- had to google Ben Shapiro. Never heard of him before.

Looks like a conservative trying to carve out his own niche in the rights shock-jock arena a la Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. He has some occasional salient points but they seem to get lost amid so many of his extreme statements that are clearly designed to generate social media trending and hopefully lead to mainstream media pickups. Pretty much the same playbook the shockers on both sides of the aisle use.

He does hit on a good point about the restriction of speech on campuses and academia in general, the rabbit hole of identit politics, etc. Those same issues are certainly worth discussing and frequently are debated in liberal and conservative publications by much saner and more sober minds than Mr. Shapiro.

Unfortunately our former medical student friend here bought into the same fallacy that all shock jock types do, that winning an argument doesn’t necessarily make you right, and that being right doesn’t necessarily mean you win.

As my Dad has asked me my entire life whenever I’m ready to go off on someone: what do you hope to accomplish? Most of the time the goal and planned hotheaded action aren’t remotely compatible.

also, good debate does not also necessarily mean you look like you snorted lines of coke to even out your meth low. One can make impassioned arguments without being a tool or being angry the entire time. His whole schtick on youtube is "owning" college kids in "debate" . Most of what he does is to get a rise out of people, a smarter version of ann coulter.

 

[Lucca]

Uhoooooooh. Stay on topic. This thread is not about Ben Shapiro, debate, discourse, or the Culture Wars in the US. It’s about this incident of disciplinary action and those like it.

 

[jw3600]

Complains about generalizations and one size fits all arguments.



Proceeds to make generalization. Are you a hypocrite?

It was observational. I’m more than willing to review and subsequently change my opinion on this if given evidence of the contrary.

 

[jw3600]

also, good debate does not also necessarily mean you look like you snorted lines of coke to even out your meth low. One can make impassioned arguments without being a tool or being angry the entire time. His whole schtick on youtube is "owning" college kids in "debate" . Most of what he does is to get a rise out of people, a smarter version of ann coulter.

Ugh sorry this is further pushing this off topic but this a absolute nonsense. Shapiro went on National Tv and made Piers Morgan look like a bitch.
Not saying Piers is the end all be all of debate (lulz) but Shapiro has been on formal televised debates quite often.

 

[libertyyne]

Ugh sorry this is further pushing this off topic but this a absolute nonsense. Shapiro went on National Tv and made Piers Morgan look like a bitch.
Not saying Piers is the end all be all of debate (lulz) but Shapiro has been on formal televised debates quite often.

I have not seen said clip or whatever, still does not address any of my points I made about shapiro.

 

[jw3600]

I have not seen said clip or whatever, still does not address any of my points I made about shapiro.

This is becoming frustrating. You said his “schtick” (is that a Jewish slur????...kidding) was owning college kids. You are wrong. He is more well known for his podcast and nationalized debates on several big forums.

 

[DK0828]

This is becoming frustrating. You said his “schtick” (is that a Jewish slur????...kidding) was owning college kids. You are wrong. He is more well known for his podcast and nationalized debates on several big forums.

The main issue is that liberal professors refuse to engage in debate with him. They fear becoming the next piers. Professors have literally tried (and succeeded) to ban him from campus to prevent opposing view points.

And though this is technically off topic. Isn’t that the natural evolution of conversation and debate? Seriously, why does this place shut down the spirit of debate so quickly?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[libertyyne]

This is becoming frustrating. You said his “schtick” (is that a Jewish slur????...kidding) was owning college kids. You are wrong. He is more well known for his podcast and nationalized debates on several big forums.

youtube "ben shapiro debate" a majority of those are college campus kids. He also engaged in 37 college campus speeches in 2016 -2017, furthering the point. Plus you are fixated on the college campus piece and havent even adddresed any points made about the type of argumentation.

 

[Goro]

Did any of you who posted in the past hour even bother to read Lucca's warning???? Take it into the SPF is you want to piss and moan about Ben Shapiro and microaggressions (look for the SJW thread).

And though this is technically off topic. Isn’t that the natural evolution of conversation and debate? Seriously, why does this place shut down the spirit of debate so quickly?

Because these types of things always devolve into flame wars and end up locking the thread.

 

[operaman]

also, good debate does not also necessarily mean you look like you snorted lines of coke to even out your meth low. One can make impassioned arguments without being a tool or being angry the entire time. His whole schtick on youtube is "owning" college kids in "debate" . Most of what he does is to get a rise out of people, a smarter version of ann coulter.

I wonder if this too is where our student friends and others of his ilk go awry. They want to “own” someone or create some viral content since that has become for many young people the definition of popularity or even of vindication. It’s almost as if they think a certain Twitter like/comment ratio determines anything substantial.

Why else would this tool take photos and Videos of the committee that was meeting in emergency session to consider his expulsion? Even if he had “owned” then in any way, he’d still be expelled and broke and maybe picked up a handful of twitter followers. You can see on the various 4chan threads how incensed he is that no media outlet gives a crap about him.

 

[operaman]

Reasonable take. Do you have any examples of left leaning speakers that are concerned about restrictions on free speech in the realm of the social justice/politically correct issue?

I’ll have to look. I know I’ve read a number of such articles in left leaning publications.

Oddly the first name that jumps to mind is Bill Maher. While not necessarily a thought leader, he’s definitely a liberal who can’t stand the SJW crowd and is very vocal about it. I’ll have to look back and see if I can find some of the others I’ve come across recently.

 

[deleted962973]

Right lol I totally forgot about him. That one played out on Twitter more than SDN/Reddit but still huge self own. Although, iirc he accused sdn of being a white supremacist platform.

I thought Eugene said that about GomerBlog? Either way, lol.

I watched the drama play out on Reddit, where the UVA student has an account. Very fittingly, the post was first made on the Jordan Peterson sub. His post history is filled with alt-right/incel/other hateful ideologies. Looks like he forgot you can’t just go around shooting insults at “the libs” in real life without repercussion.

 

[libertyyne]

I wonder if this too is where our student friends and others of his ilk go awry. They want to “own” someone or create some viral content since that has become for many young people the definition of popularity or even of vindication. It’s almost as if they think a certain Twitter like/comment ratio determines anything substantial.

Why else would this tool take photos and Videos of the committee that was meeting in emergency session to consider his expulsion? Even if he had “owned” then in any way, he’d still be expelled and broke and maybe picked up a handful of twitter followers. You can see on the various 4chan threads how incensed he is that no media outlet gives a crap about him.

This person actively went to an optional amwa event and recorded his interaction . He was looking for a fight. He could have easily gone up to the presenters after the event to discuss issues he felt with what was presented in a respectable fashion. He wanted it to be a spectacle.

 

[DK0828]

youtube "ben shapiro debate" a majority of those are college campus kids. He also engaged in 37 college campus speeches in 2016 -2017, furthering the point. Plus you are fixated on the college campus piece and havent even adddresed any points made about the type of argumentation.

Professsors are also at those events but they don’t engage. He doesn’t control who walks through those doors and raise their hand to ask questions.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Closing thread due to multiple user reports and continued off-topic discussion even after being asked to keep it on topic.