Did we go to the moon?

[urge]

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Less than 15 seconds with Google: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm. Look past the .gov in the URL for a second and just read it.

Did you read that thing before posting it? Yes they have a BS explanation to a lot of things. And the ones they cannot explain they just ignore. Like the molten metal "we felt it wasn't important", or looking for thermite "we felt there was no need, the molten metal means nothing". And my personal favorite "tower 7 came down because of the fires".

I still challenge you to answer my previous questions and arrive to a logical explanation.

 

[pgg]

Yes they have a BS explanation to a lot of things.

This is the problem with conspiracy theories and the people who believe them. No matter how simply and thoroughly they're debunked, they refuse to acknowledge the holes.

You're eager to dismiss simple, plausible explanations in favor of complicated, massive coverups. You're skeptical of the former but not the latter.

I think you're not interested in the truth. You're interested in being angry, at feeling clever, and enjoying excitement of being part of a special (oppressed) minority group that really sees through the "lies" the Man is telling you to keep you down.

I suspect you will never be convinced. To take just one of your stabbingly insightful smoking gun questions

Why did the fuel melt the steel if it couldn't reach melting temperatures?

Simply explaining that steel doesn't need to melt to become structurally unsound is a BS explanation? Are you kidding?

You simply want to believe. Logic and evidence are secondary. This is intellectual weakness that deserves public ridicule.

Unfortunately there's a catch-22 for the rest of us. We can ignore you, and let the silly meme infect other gullible people. Or we can endlessly re-re-re-re-re-engage in the debate ... but doing so indirectly lends respectability to your position.

 

[urge]

This is the problem with conspiracy theories and the people who believe them. No matter how simply and thoroughly they're debunked, they refuse to acknowledge the holes.

You're eager to dismiss simple, plausible explanations in favor of complicated, massive coverups. You're skeptical of the former but not the latter.

I think you're not interested in the truth. You're interested in being angry, at feeling clever, and enjoying excitement of being part of a special (oppressed) minority group that really sees through the "lies" the Man is telling you to keep you down.

I suspect you will never be convinced. To take just one of your stabbingly insightful smoking gun questionsSimply explaining that steel doesn't need to melt to become structurally unsound is a BS explanation? Are you kidding?

You simply want to believe. Logic and evidence are secondary. This is intellectual weakness that deserves public ridicule.

Unfortunately there's a catch-22 for the rest of us. We can ignore you, and let the silly meme infect other gullible people. Or we can endlessly re-re-re-re-re-engage in the debate ... but doing so indirectly lends respectability to your position.

Is that the best you can do? You are still not anwering logically. Cheap psychology will not cut the mustard in this thread. I feel sorry for you. Post after post and you cannot bedunk a "nutter" like me.

 

[coprolalia]

Is that the best you can do? You are still not anwering logically. Cheap psychology will not cut the mustard in this thread. I feel sorry for you. Post after post and you cannot bedunk a "nutter" like me.

Dude, a suggestion: Give up. You're really, really, REALLY making yourself look stupid here. This forum is (primarily) about anesthesiology. There are plenty of other forums on the internet where you can debate such topics... ad nauseum, I might add.

-copro

 

[pgg]

Is that the best you can do? You are still not anwering logically. Cheap psychology will not cut the mustard in this thread. I feel sorry for you. Post after post and you cannot bedunk a "nutter" like me.

Nutters, by definition, can't be debunked because the same logical blindness that makes them nutters in the first place makes them impervious to logic. 🙂

We're getting nowhere. Let's agree to disagree, and get back to talking about gassing people for a living.

 

[climbingdocs]

Dude, a suggestion: Give up. You're really, really, REALLY making yourself look stupid here. This forum is (primarily) about anesthesiology. There are plenty of other forums on the internet where you can debate such topics... ad nauseum, I might add.

-copro

oh yea? What about discussion about guns, cars, watches, money... I've seen it all in anesthesia forum, btw, I am not sending you my money cause you ain't no god

 

[coprolalia]

oh yea? What about discussion about guns, cars, watches, money... I've seen it all in anesthesia forum

Yeah, but those topics are all in some way germane to this forum.

btw, I am not sending you my money cause you ain't no god

Well, you'll have to tell that to the chick I was bangin' last night who kept yelling, "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!"

😀

-copro

 

[pgg]

oh yea? What about discussion about guns, cars, watches, money... I've seen it all in anesthesia forum

Agreed, I like our hands-off moderators.

 

[Kubed]

Well, you'll have to tell that to the chick I was bangin' last night who kept yelling, "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!"

😀

-copro

Boon: You're gonna hump her brains out, aren't you?
Otter: Boon, I anticipate a deeply religious experience.

 

[cfdavid]

What, you can't find Google yourself? Here's a link.

Less than 15 seconds with Google: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm. Look past the .gov in the URL for a second and just read it. All of your questions are addressed in reasonable, simple terms that don't require extraordinary leaps of faith, a massive (and perfect) conspiracy.

In any case, the fact that you're posing those questions here, and not carefully searching for better documented sources, suggests that you're not really interested in the truth ... just the entertainment value of parroting a tired, long-debunked theory.



All right, fair enough. I interpreted your defense of urge as agreement with his conclusions. Unwarranted.



Oooh, did someone give me moderator privileges and I didn't notice? Cool!

I'm not trying to suppress this silly debate. I'm mocking it. You're free to talk about 9/11 and our perfectly organized government's perfect coverup, or alien visits and another perfect government coverup, or anything else you like. And I'll point and laugh.

These very issues have been debated in exhaustive detail over and over and over again, for YEARS. There's no shortage of reasoned, well documented rebuttals to these conspiracy theories.

Hence my irritation and general disappointment that an anesthesiologist, a trained scientist who should be held to the highest standard of logic and evidence based practice, trots out the same garbage 9/11 arguments and "insightfully skeptical" questions that have been posed by the tinfoil brigade for close to 7 years now.

Read this if you get a chance: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531304,00.html

I understand why guys like urge are so eager to embrace conspiracy theories, but that doesn't make those theories believable or even worthy of (repeated) public debate. To (repeatedly) seriously debate things like this only lends those theories credence and respectability they don't deserve, and that is both dishonest and a disservice to the truth.

That is why I take time out of my weekend to mock conspiracy theory nutjobs.

I thought we agreed that much of the mainstream media is simply not interested in an educated public. Yet you reference a Time Magazine article that uses the very same "oldest trick in the book" method of suppressing any real debate. That is, skewing the issue into two camps, 1) those that buy into the traditional ideology (the Good Guys), and 2) everyone else that must by default be a "nutjob". How convenient. But, it's actually very effective. That's why it's still used all the time.

I guess to you there simply are NO conspiracies or cover ups ever in the world. I infer this because it's taken me more than enough threads to get you to question ONE traditionally held, established belief and all you could come up with is that you question organized religion.

 

[cfdavid]

.

 

[cfdavid]

.

 

[pgg]

I thought we agreed that much of the mainstream media is simply not interested in an educated public.

True.

Yet you reference a Time Magazine article

I thought it was an interesting article, nothing more. Occasionally such things slip through the chaff and MIB censors. 🙂

I guess to you there simply are NO conspiracies or cover ups ever in the world. I infer this because it's taken me more than enough threads to get you to question ONE traditionally held, established belief and all you could come up with is that you question organized religion.

You asked me for one, I gave you one. If you wanted two, why didn't you ask for two in the first place?

Here's another one, and hopefully it will be suitably random and obscure for you - I am skeptical that fluoridating the public's supply of drinking water is the great anti-cavity boon most believe it to be. The science I'm aware of is weak. (Briefly, the per capita cavity trends in most western countries has declined at comparable rates, fluoridated water or not.) I don't believe there's a conspiracy or anything malicious behind it though, and I'm quite willing to concede that I may be wrong.

Are you going to ask for a third now?

 

[Apollyon]

And if it was a plane where were the bodies, why no one in Pentagon died?

At least one person died (and actually many) - a guy a year ahead of me in military school, who was a Navy LCDR at the Pentagon.

Where are your sources? Whatever they are, that's plain evidence that you are misinformed.

 

[urge]

Seems like everyone is tired of this thread. I'll let it rest. But before I do. I'll leave you with my favorite George Carlin video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9KReZyAZLI0

 

[zippy2u]

Thanks for that nightcap Carlin video, Urge. Yup, Carlin nails it with that video! Regards, ----Zip

 

[cfdavid]

True.



I thought it was an interesting article, nothing more. Occasionally such things slip through the chaff and MIB censors. 🙂



You asked me for one, I gave you one. If you wanted two, why didn't you ask for two in the first place?

Here's another one, and hopefully it will be suitably random and obscure for you - I am skeptical that fluoridating the public's supply of drinking water is the great anti-cavity boon most believe it to be. The science I'm aware of is weak. (Briefly, the per capita cavity trends in most western countries has declined at comparable rates, fluoridated water or not.) I don't believe there's a conspiracy or anything malicious behind it though, and I'm quite willing to concede that I may be wrong.

Are you going to ask for a third now?

Now that's more like it. Frankly, I haven't looked into this issue. I've had many dentists suggest that it was the great anti-cavity boom, but I don't know. I haven't done any research into this issue at all.

Regardless, as you can see, I think it's very healthy to challenge conventional wisdom. History books are written by the winners of the major wars. That's why losing carries such high stakes. Higher than even material damage/destruction would suggest. And that's why governments of the past have sometimes sacrificed everything to the bitter end.

Also, as you begin to explore the various power structures of the world, you may conclude (as I have) that the shi.t runs very deep in some instances. Is everything a grand conspiracy? No. But, I do believe that it's hard for most "average" people to fully appreciate the economically elite. And this doesn't include dudes making 1/2 mil/year. However, the resources to manipulate policy and public opinion of wealthy governments and individuals can not be underestimated. This is my opinion.

 

[cfdavid]

Thanks for that nightcap Carlin video, Urge. Yup, Carlin nails it with that video! Regards, ----Zip

Indeed he does Zip. Skeptical? Yes. Incorrect? Not necesarily.

Let's conclude this thread with a gentleman's understanding that it isn't personal (and shouldn't be). Sometimes things get a bit hot, but we're not all that different in the end.

 

[pgg]

Let's conclude this thread with a gentleman's understanding that it isn't personal (and shouldn't be). Sometimes things get a bit hot, but we're not all that different in the end.

Agreed. Time to revisit the ID thread and tell a story. 🙂

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I have been on SDN about 10 years and this might be the strangest thread I have ever seen.

 

[climbingdocs]

Well, you'll have to tell that to the chick I was bangin' last night who kept yelling, "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!"

😀

-copro

she was clearly blinded by....well not sure what she was blinded by hehe😛

 

[cfdavid]

she was clearly blinded by....well not sure what she was blinded by hehe😛

Well, he IS an anesthesiologist...😀

 

[starsop93]

It is beyond stupid to believe the most bumbling and incompetent adminstration in American history planned and executed an almost flawless demolition of the WTC and Pentagon.

They would have had to employ and involve HUNDREDS to THOUSANDS of high level government workers, mid level airline people, and low level demolitions experts to have the plot go off as effectively as it did.

To this date, not a SINGLE PERSON has ever suggested, even confidentially, that they were part of the largest, greatest conspiracy in American history! How have they kept all the demolitions people quiet, I ask you?? There would have been scores involved, and, unlike the people who would have planned it, they would not likely all have been ideologues.

It must be all the good will left over from Bush and Cheney that nobody would want to bring them down...

Like all conspiracy theories, it is impossible to convince the believers otherwise as they always just expand the conspiracy. As much as I hate the current adminstration, I just cannot see how this could be pulled off by them given their almost complete inabilty to succeed in ANYTHING!

 

[leviathan]

At least one person died (and actually many) - a guy a year ahead of me in military school, who was a Navy LCDR at the Pentagon.

Where are your sources? Whatever they are, that's plain evidence that you are misinformed.

Exactly. These conspiracy theorists will be skeptical of well-documented and verified sources and deny them to the grave, and in the next breath they accept the clearly misleading and false information from conspiracy theory websites as the gospel truth without ever questioning it. And then they paint the rest of the "non believers" as naive sheep who believe what they are told. Irony.

 

[cfdavid]

If any of this sparks your curiosity, then CROSS REFERENCE the data and topics that you see here! Don't take these talking points at face value. Do some research. Look at all extremes of data regarding these issues and then come to YOUR OWN conclusion. These are important accusations, as well as topics. If you hear something (names, incidences, places, whatever) you may be unfamiliar with, press pause. Then google a variety of sources on the matter. If you have a true diversity of opinion and data (again, there's a TON of mis/dis-information on these issues) you'll be able to come to your own conclusions, whichever they turn out to be. Cross reference names (what organizations do they belong to. What's their political agenda/history. Do they belong to any extremes of religion. What do they have to gain/lose. Is there a motive? Are they accurate in their promotions of certain accusations?) The biggest upset to traditional media (which has historically been able to be contolled, either by nations, families/individuals, or corporations) is the internet, which no entity technically controls. At least not yet. However, this means that both responsible information as well as irresponsible information can be published and accessed by anyone. Thus, we must be our own judge. Cheers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQv5YSg_YA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjUP_0VFXLs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukv85nc-VOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2YcsuojcyI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMA22HoRIaM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_NVGgWwg_Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8e7nkVfSd0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp4vL7jV-zI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQv5YSg_YA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O125hGt9qt4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjfG8-teSc0

 

[Apollyon]

Next week (27 August, Wednesday, 9pm EDT), MythBusters is doing Moon Landing Myths on Discovery.

Right up you crazy kids' alley.

 

[geogil]

Next week (27 August, Wednesday, 9pm EDT), MythBusters is doing Moon Landing Myths on Discovery.

Right up you crazy kids' alley.

That's just more propaganda from the MAN, albeit from a side channel, not from the top down 😀

 

[coldweatherblue]

the most definitive video on the subject:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOo6aHSY8hU[/YOUTUBE]

Buzz Aldrin: American Hero.

 

[Narcotized]

.

 

[usnavdoc]

After reading this highly insightful thread, I can only come to one conclusion: I'd prefer Conrad Murray performing anesthesia on me or a family member than a good number of you on this forum.

Yeah, If Mike had hired a decent doc they would still be making 250K/mo. Hell, makes me want to go open up a propofol sleep spa right now.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

If any of this sparks your curiosity, then CROSS REFERENCE the data and topics that you see here! Don't take these talking points at face value. Do some research. Look at all extremes of data regarding these issues and then come to YOUR OWN conclusion. These are important accusations, as well as topics. If you hear something (names, incidences, places, whatever) you may be unfamiliar with, press pause. Then google a variety of sources on the matter. If you have a true diversity of opinion and data (again, there's a TON of mis/dis-information on these issues) you'll be able to come to your own conclusions, whichever they turn out to be. Cross reference names (what organizations do they belong to. What's their political agenda/history. Do they belong to any extremes of religion. What do they have to gain/lose. Is there a motive? Are they accurate in their promotions of certain accusations?) The biggest upset to traditional media (which has historically been able to be contolled, either by nations, families/individuals, or corporations) is the internet, which no entity technically controls. At least not yet. However, this means that both responsible information as well as irresponsible information can be published and accessed by anyone. Thus, we must be our own judge. Cheers.

CF, Urge: You guys should totally check out this video. It's all about how the CIA was infiltrated by the Skull & Bones, and how they've been manipulating presidential elections since the 70s!

 

[Eta Carinae]

CF, Urge: You guys should totally check out this video. It's all about how the CIA was infiltrated by the Skull & Bones, and how they've been manipulating presidential elections since the 70s!

😍

NICE!

 

[Eta Carinae]

I just got through picking my jaw off the floor after reading this thread

 

[cfdavid]

CF, Urge: You guys should totally check out this video. It's all about how the CIA was infiltrated by the Skull & Bones, and how they've been manipulating presidential elections since the 70s!

I'm assuming you're joking.

Regardless, my attachments had nothing to do with Lunar Landings....

I just used the provocational aspects of the OP to throw in some information that many Americans are clueless about, but which is negatively impacting the U.S., our "treasury", and our armed forces.

So, go learn a little, start thinking for yourself, and get back to me.

cf

 

[cfdavid]

If any of this sparks your curiosity, then CROSS REFERENCE the data and topics that you see here! Don't take these talking points at face value. Do some research. Look at all extremes of data regarding these issues and then come to YOUR OWN conclusion. These are important accusations, as well as topics. If you hear something (names, incidences, places, whatever) you may be unfamiliar with, press pause. Then google a variety of sources on the matter. If you have a true diversity of opinion and data (again, there's a TON of mis/dis-information on these issues) you'll be able to come to your own conclusions, whichever they turn out to be. Cross reference names (what organizations do they belong to. What's their political agenda/history. Do they belong to any extremes of religion. What do they have to gain/lose. Is there a motive? Are they accurate in their promotions of certain accusations?) The biggest upset to traditional media (which has historically been able to be contolled, either by nations, families/individuals, or corporations) is the internet, which no entity technically controls. At least not yet. However, this means that both responsible information as well as irresponsible information can be published and accessed by anyone. Thus, we must be our own judge. Cheers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQv5YSg_YA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjUP_0VFXLs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukv85nc-VOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2YcsuojcyI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMA22HoRIaM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_NVGgWwg_Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8e7nkVfSd0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp4vL7jV-zI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQv5YSg_YA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O125hGt9qt4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjfG8-teSc0

here it is. i'll make it easy for everyone.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Regardless, that Eric Cantor do is irresistible

maybe BOTH this guy and cantor are long lost sons of Elvis 😉

 

[digitlnoize]

Regarding the Moon: I'm pretty sure that a good amount of man-made junk was left up there, including the rovers. Someone just go get a fraking telescope and look, will you?

And for whoever asked, no one died at the Pentagon because the side of the building that was hit was under construction at the time, and no one was working in that "wing".

 

[GoodmanBrown]

I'm assuming you're joking.

Regardless, my attachments had nothing to do with Lunar Landings....

I just used the provocational aspects of the OP to throw in some information that many Americans are clueless about, but which is negatively impacting the U.S., our "treasury", and our armed forces.

So, go learn a little, start thinking for yourself, and get back to me.

cf

Nothing personal, man! There were just so many youtube links being thrown around that I thought a rickroll would be spot on. I see I caught you and Eta with it at least. 😉

 

[cfdavid]

Nothing personal, man! There were just so many youtube links being thrown around that I thought a rickroll would be spot on. I see I caught you and Eta with it at least. 😉

actually, you didn't "catch' me in anything. if i would have opened your link then, i would have known (not "assumed") you were joking.

anyway, i agree, not personal. no worries.

 

[pgg]

Regarding the Moon: I'm pretty sure that a good amount of man-made junk was left up there, including the rovers. Someone just go get a fraking telescope and look, will you?

Unfortunately, physics is a rigid uncompromising bitch and you'd need a telescope with a lens about 100 meters across to be able to resolve something as small and far away as the rovers on the moon. Such devices don't exist; IIRC the best ground-based telescopes we've got are on the order of 10 meters. Google Dawes' limit if you want to see the math.

To say nothing of atmospheric effects that would require adaptive optics and other voodoo.

This ain't happening in anyone's backyard, and the nutters won't believe anything from an observatory anyway even if it was technically possible ...

 

[digitlnoize]

Unfortunately, physics is a rigid uncompromising bitch and you'd need a telescope with a lens about 100 meters across to be able to resolve something as small and far away as the rovers on the moon. Such devices don't exist; IIRC the best ground-based telescopes we've got are on the order of 10 meters. Google Dawes' limit if you want to see the math.

To say nothing of atmospheric effects that would require adaptive optics and other voodoo.

This ain't happening in anyone's backyard, and the nutters won't believe anything from an observatory anyway even if it was technically possible ...

I hate physics. There goes my favorite argument...