Didn't get in but had decent stats.

[jrock89]

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GPA: 3.44
Science GPA: 3.3
Volunteer HRS: ~1000
GRE: 310

I didn't receive a single interview out of the six schools I applied. 🙁 Don't know what else to do..

 

[member35]

your stats don't reflect what your letters of recommendation may have said, as well as your personal essay. there's more to an application than grades and test scores.

 

[nicolej5]

were your hours varied or all in the same setting? I'm assuming that you work as an aide due to the amount of hours?? Like the above said, there's more to it than grades.

 

[jrock89]

recommendations were excellent. My PT told me basically what she wrote. We have been working together for 1.5 years. Other recommendations were excellent as well. I had 2 PT's and a pastor with a professor. I had 1000 hrs in 2 settings.

 

[WeaverEL]

what schools did you apply to? because you might have applied to the more competitive schools? or if you e-submitted late for schools that did rolling admissions?

 

[cali122]

When did you apply? And to what calibre of schhols. My friend had 3.5+ cumulative, similar GPA for Pre req, and worked as an aide. A lot of her stats, work experience, lor's, and essay were similar to mine and others but she only got into 1 of the 13 schools she applied to and one other interview. We can really only think to attribute it to the fact that she applied a little later than ideal. Although that's just stipulation...

 

[Myosin]

Did you apply late or have some kind of problems applying? That sucks that you didn't get anything at all.

Despite what people here tell you, letters of recommendation don't really mean anything unless the person writing them is either very associated with the school you're applying to or the person writing them is famous or influential.

Everyone has amazing letters. When was the last time you heard someone say "My LORs were pretty mediocre" or "I had horrible LORs"?

I'm sure a lot of people actually do have really bad letters that they didn't know were bad, so you never know what yours actually were like

Your GRE is good and your GPA is decent, like you said, but your science GPA is on the low side.

Prereq gpa is generally considered the biggest factor in acceptance. Use the next year to retake some of them and pull it up substantially. That should also put your overall gpa at around 3.5 too.

Try to get some volunteer hours at some non physical therapy places and join some of the clubs at the school where you retake those classes.

 

[NewTestament]

Can you give us a breakdown of the observation hours you had? If they were all in outpatient, then I suspect that's one reason why you did not get in. If you don't have any experience in an inpatient/acute setting, then that's probably why some schools didn't look at you.

Your overall GPA is fine but your pre-req GPA should be a little higher. Retake a couple of classes and boost it to 3.5 or more, and I'm sure more schools will look at you. Also, tell us which schools you applied to. If you applied to schools like Pittsburgh or USF, then it's not hard to understand why you were declined.

Kevin

 

[Azimuthal]

I think everything else has been mentioned. It may be time to start contacting schools to see where your application stands.

Maybe add a few more school next time? But who knows, your schools may just do their acceptances later.

 

[adh28]

Were all documents received by the school? All pre-reqs completed?

 

[nicolej5]

Despite what people here tell you, letters of recommendation don't really mean anything unless the person writing them is either very associated with the school you're applying to or the person writing them is famous or influential.

.

I have to disagree with this.If a writer makes it seem like they don't really know the applicant well enough to be writing one, it will show. At my last interview, interviewers were commenting and praising about LORs. Conversely, a friend of mine also applied this cycle and got in, but at one of the schools that he got rejected the advisor mentioned that LORs were a weak spot. They include LORs in the application packet for a reason.

 

[member35]

I have to disagree with this.If a writer makes it seem like they don't really know the applicant well enough to be writing one, it will show. At my last interview, interviewers were commenting and praising about LORs. Conversely, a friend of mine also applied this cycle and got in, but at one of the schools that he got rejected the advisor mentioned that LORs were a weak spot. They include LORs in the application packet for a reason.

totally agree with nicolej5. i had an interviewer tell me that a weak(er) spot on my application was my gpa (3.38 cum, 3.49 prereq), but that my letters of recommendation helped balance that out. why require them if they don't mean anything?

 

[NewTestament]

The whole person of LORs is for someone to give objective opinion about you. You tell schools why you think you'd be a good PT, but they want to hear someone else (professor, boss, PT) tell them why you're qualified. That's why they matter. If they weren't worth anything, why would programs take time to read them?

Kevin

 

[BrintRufusMekus]

Any extracurricular activities?

 

[GMA2013]

I didn't get in to any of the 10 schools I applied to either and had decent starts and great lor's .... I had gotten a really bad grade in a pre req and didn't have the new scour till academic update so that's all I know to continue it too.

Gpa: 3.56 (3.39 prior to update)
Pre req GPA: 3.62 (3.45 prior to update)
GRE: 154 q 156 v 4.0w
Hours: 100 outpatient 100 inpatient 50 SNF
Extra: president of pt club, school mascot, 2 year service mission....

 

[Azimuthal]

Also, the application cycle isn't over yet guys.

 

[NewTestament]

I didn't get in to any of the 10 schools I applied to either and had decent starts and great lor's .... I had gotten a really bad grade in a pre req and didn't have the new scour till academic update so that's all I know to continue it too.

Gpa: 3.56 (3.39 prior to update)
Pre req GPA: 3.62 (3.45 prior to update)
GRE: 154 q 156 v 4.0w
Hours: 100 outpatient 100 inpatient 50 SNF
Extra: president of pt club, school mascot, 2 year service mission....

I'm amazed. No where?!

 

[GMA2013]

I'm amazed. No where?!

Nope.... Very unfortunate. One of my pre reqs was an AP class I took my senior year of high school, I had emailed all the schools previously to see if they would accept it and applied to the ones that said yes. It apparently went against me at some places. I am retaking the class this summer and applying to Montana early decision

 

[jdaniels360]

Where did you apply? That may be the issue.

 

[bnwj89]

I'm pretty shocked at this too. Where did you apply??

Sent from my DROID3 using SDN Mobile

 

[GMA2013]

Uri, Bradley, Shenandoah, new jersey m&d, nymc, Drexel, Bellarmine, Nova, Franklin Peirce, unlv

 

[Alex123]

Uri, Bradley, Shenandoah, new jersey m&d, nymc, Drexel, Bellarmine, Nova, Franklin Peirce, unlv

If this is true, it will be very frustrating😕

 

[DPTHopeful921]

I'm surprised you didn't get into Drexel with those stats. Mine were similar and I got in

 

[DPTHopeful921]

...well my science GPA was higher but I didn't have as many observation hours. My GRE was on the old scale though

 

[EmmaLee]

Did you apply late or have some kind of problems applying? That sucks that you didn't get anything at all.

Despite what people here tell you, letters of recommendation don't really mean anything unless the person writing them is either very associated with the school you're applying to or the person writing them is famous or influential.

Everyone has amazing letters. When was the last time you heard someone say "My LORs were pretty mediocre" or "I had horrible LORs"?

Couldn't be more wrong! I've spoken with several DPT admissions committee members from several universities and they ALL say.... LOR is one of the most important pieces of information they use.

They even went as far to say "Make sure you ask specifically for a GOOD letter of recommendation, because if you do not, they might write that they do not recommend you. And there is nothing more disappointing then reading that. We will basically throw away your entire application with no second thought." That is a direct quote from a DPT admissions member.

 

[Azimuthal]

Couldn't be more wrong! I've spoken with several DPT admissions committee members from several universities and they ALL say.... LOR is one of the most important pieces of information they use.

They even went as far to say "Make sure you ask specifically for a GOOD letter of recommendation, because if you do not, they might write that they do not recommend you. And there is nothing more disappointing then reading that. We will basically throw away your entire application with no second thought." That is a direct quote from a DPT admissions member.

I remember that HughLee, one of the adcoms that posts in the PT forum regularly, has mentioned that LoRs aren't weighted much, so long as they're positive.

Maybe he can shed some light on this?

I personally don't see an LoR doing much unless it was negative. A positive LoR is a positive LoR, unless the writer has horrible grammar, etc. The only time I see an LoR having a larger impact is if it was written by someone well known in the field they are in.

Don't forget that there are two aspects of the LoR system. A point based rating system and an optional written portion. If your written portion was "stellar" but your writer placed "non-observed" for the critical thinking portion of your rating... Will that LoR be considered positive or negative? A (or multiple) not observed or "NOB" shows that the writer may not know you that well but since the written was good, he/she may simply be good at writing. It may also show that the writer may hand out positive LoRs like candy on Halloween. An LoR is highly subjective. That's why I say everyone should print out a paper copy and review the criteria with their letter writer before proceeding to the final submission.

 

[NewTestament]

I personally don't see an LoR doing much unless it was negative. A positive LoR is a positive LoR, unless the writer has horrible grammar, etc. The only time I see an LoR having a larger impact is if it was written by someone well known in the field they are in.

I'm sure some LORs are more enthusiastic than others, but I think you're right. Most positive LORs probably sound the same and repetitive. But if it is negative, then your application is toast.

Kevin

 

[jsmurray]

OP, I am quite convinced most schools only care about GPA. Such a shame.

 

[nicolej5]

They only care about GPA initially. With 1000+ applications, how can they not? There has to be a cut off somewhere to get the applicant pool down to a reasonable number. They do the same thing with the GRE. If they didn't care about anything else, they wouldn't ask for all of the supp. materials.

 

[ptisfun2]

I'm sure some LORs are more enthusiastic than others, but I think you're right. Most positive LORs probably sound the same and repetitive. But if it is negative, then your application is toast.

Kevin

Right on. And yes, they are not weighting much....at least at my school. I sound like a broken record, but overall GPA and GRE are the only things we look at for interviews. If you do not meet our minimums, your application is not reviewed. But even amongst those who do meet minimums, only a percentage of those are interviewed. Acceptance after interviews include GRE, overall and pre-req GPA, personal statement, LOR, and interviews. So we read LOR for 250 x 3..no way we are reading 1000 applicants' 3 LOR.
I will say most LOR are completely the same...as long as positive. THe negative ones REALLY stick out even of only slightly negative. But most are just fill in the name things with a sentence or 2 about the applicant specifically.
On the PTCAS forms, lots of 'Not observed' raise a red flag with us, so if I had one piece of feedback.. get recommenders who can evaluate you based on the PTCAS form (if applying to a PTCAS school). You are all good students so will be highly recommended or recommended by the people writing letters. Very infrequently do we see anything else. Oh so that is my ohter piece of advice......ask them to write a letter in addition to filling out the form if they can add something specifically about you instead of their form letter. That may tip the hat in your favor a bit.

 

[jsmurray]

This is exactly what I expected, and to be honest it makes sense. How are extracurriculars taken into account? Are they at all?

 

[nomattic]

This is exactly what I expected, and to be honest it makes sense. How are extracurriculars taken into account? Are they at all?

I think on paper, extracurriculars are not that important. However, I found that extracurriculars and the experiences I had with them were REALLY helpful during the interviews. My interviewers asked me a lot of open-ended questions such as, "name a time when you were faced with a situation that made you uncomfortable and how did you deal with it?" The fact that I was able to give a good example that I had experienced in a health care setting seemed to satisfy them and helped carry the conversation a bit.

As far as LOR's go, I also don't think they matter much. Every time I talked to someone at a school about admission criteria they valued, they usually listed off different categories of GPA's (pre-req, math/sci, last 60 hours, etc) and maybe an after thought about reaching a GRE minimum. I'm also shocked you didn't get any interviews, GMA2013.

 

[ptisfun2]

I think on paper, extracurriculars are not that important. However, I found that extracurriculars and the experiences I had with them were REALLY helpful during the interviews. My interviewers asked me a lot of open-ended questions such as, "name a time when you were faced with a situation that made you uncomfortable and how did you deal with it?" The fact that I was able to give a good example that I had experienced in a health care setting seemed to satisfy them and helped carry the conversation a bit.

Could not have said it better myself.

 

[easb]

[ On the PTCAS forms, lots of 'Not observed' raise a red flag with us, so if I had one piece of feedback.. get recommenders who can evaluate you based on the PTCAS form (if applying to a PTCAS school). [/QUOTE]
ptisfun2, do you know if we can find those PTCAS forms that people who write our LORs have to fill out? I did not even know that those forms exist!

 

[Azimuthal]

[ On the PTCAS forms, lots of 'Not observed' raise a red flag with us, so if I had one piece of feedback.. get recommenders who can evaluate you based on the PTCAS form (if applying to a PTCAS school).
ptisfun2, do you know if we can find those PTCAS forms that people who write our LORs have to fill out? I did not even know that those forms exist!

In PTCAS LoR section, choose to create a paper based LoR. Print out the form, then delete the paper-based request. You will then have a hard copy of the form.

 

[easb]

In PTCAS LoR section, choose to create a paper based LoR. Print out the form, then delete the paper-based request. You will then have a hard copy of the form.

Thank you soooo much!!!

 

[jsmurray]

I think on paper, extracurriculars are not that important. However, I found that extracurriculars and the experiences I had with them were REALLY helpful during the interviews. My interviewers asked me a lot of open-ended questions such as, "name a time when you were faced with a situation that made you uncomfortable and how did you deal with it?" The fact that I was able to give a good example that I had experienced in a health care setting seemed to satisfy them and helped carry the conversation a bit.

As far as LOR's go, I also don't think they matter much. Every time I talked to someone at a school about admission criteria they valued, they usually listed off different categories of GPA's (pre-req, math/sci, last 60 hours, etc) and maybe an after thought about reaching a GRE minimum. I'm also shocked you didn't get any interviews, GMA2013.

Thanks for the response. It honestly very frustrating to hear that, especially when I know hospitals don't look at GPA at all when they hire you. I was told that it was actually important not to put that on your Resume when applying.

 

[Wiz DLifa]

Let me share you my stats to give you some motivation, bud!!!

cum.GPA: 3.12
prereq.GPA:<3.0
GRE: 520 Verbal/640 Math/4.5 Writing
Hours: -80 in hospital, 100 in student-run clinic, ~700 in PT clinic as a PT Aide
6-7 Letters of Recs.
Accepted: Uni. of St. Augustine, San Marcos.


I was going to re-take my Chem classes to bump my GPA up before I applied to schools this summer, but I just got accepted into St. Augustine, San Marcos last night 😀

My GPA was by far my worst feature and my GRE wasn't necessarily outstanding, considering the average GPA of accepted students was ~3.7 and GRE score of 1100!!! However, I think my experience, my letters of recommendations, and my PERSONAL ESSAY were what made me stand out.

My advice to anyone who feels discouraged is to keep pursuing a career through aide work, building good relationships with PTs and physicians that you know so they can write you stellar LoRs, and write a bomb-ass essay. Explain to them how important this career is to you and how motivated you are to becoming a PT. Don't just simply state down the generic things like "I like to help people" or "it's my dream to ___". They see that stuff all the time. Make it sound like you have been working your ASS off in your pursuit to the career and explain all the hardships you've overcome on your way there, etc. If you guys have more questions about this, just hit me up with a PM.

My last piece of advice I can give is that, once you get an interview, don't let the chance slip through your fingers! Prepare the **** out of the interview, knowing all the ins and outs of working with patients, the political issues that PTs face, and just how to do well in grad school. If you prepare well, they WILL notice how motivated you are during the interview, and that's what they look for in candidates.

Best of luck to the rest of you! You'll all make it!!! 👍

 

[Myosin]

I'll defend my earlier statement about lor and extracurricular. I am not saying they have no weight or are meaningless by any stretch.

I'm currently shadowing a PT that is a good friend of a member of the enrollment board for one of the schools I am applying to.

I'll tell you exactly what I was told and advised.

99% of people's LOR are worthless. Most people had the same generic LOR. They weren't bad, but you could literally just change the names for them and it wouldn't change anything.

Most people thought they were special little snow flakes and thought they had outstanding letters, when in fact they just had a slightly flashier version of the hundreds of generic letters they get every year.

Some people are smart, like Nicole, and actually went over their letters with the writers or they had someone who actually really cared enough to put a lot of effort into making them very personalized and emotional, which is why they will get noticed by the staff. It's just that rare when it happens

If you didn't see your letter and go over it with the people who wrote it, it may as well have just been a template with the named changed for all you know. Don't think you're a special snowflake just because the person writing the letter is a good friend or you've known them for a long time, you have to be proactive with the letters because the vast majority of people are sending in generic templates and thinking they're excellent.

As far as extracurricular go, most of them don't mean anything. Being on the chess club or rowing club is irrelevant to their decisions. They can also tell when you're just artificially padding your volunteer hours, as in people would usually have only a week or two of volunteer work at the soup kitchen or food bank or wherever just a month before they apply to school.

Things that made them stop and talk about you usually involved holding a family unit together, overcoming actual adversity, such as a death in the family or being seriously injured yourself and holding jobs that actually involved helping others.

 

[nicolej5]

I guess it depends on the school and how they view LORs because I had admissions people from another school tell me the exact opposite lol.

 

[easb]

So what would be a good way to "control" what people write in their LORs? Ask them to write the letter on paper, then read it, and if we like it ask the person to submit it on PTCAS?

 

[Azimuthal]

So what would be a good way to "control" what people write in their LORs? Ask them to write the letter on paper, then read it, and if we like it ask the person to submit it on PTCAS?

I wouldn't go as far as to try and "control" what people write. Most of the time, you influence what goes on paper based the actual interaction you have with the writers as well as how well they know you. You may go over the rating system and ask your writer how they would assess you on those criteria. A problem that I see is that some PTs have very little experience with the PTCAS LoR system and when they see "The student has demonstrated critical thinking skills required in the field of physical therapy"; they freeze, then see "not observed" as an option. Professors are better at these things because they have your assignment/exam grades to fall back on.

Its not a bad idea for students starting/on observation to begin keeping a journal of their thoughts and experiences. It should be easy to maintain if the student chooses to engage the PT versus standing in a corner and changing out sheets. Ask lots of questions. After said student attains their hours, they can give their writer a copy of their journal or an outline of what they have done/seen/learned. A positive LoR should not be hard to obtain.

 

[jdaniels360]

A problem that I see is that some PTs have very little experience with the PTCAS LoR system and when they see "The student has demonstrated critical thinking skills required in the field of physical therapy"; they freeze, then see "not observed" as an option. Professors are better at these things because they have your assignment/exam grades to fall back on.

Can someone post of copy of the observation form that LOR writers will see online when it's their time to submit the letters please? This way we'll be able to make sure we do the necessary things on that checklist during our hours of observation and won't have any issues come up when worrying about whether or not the LOR was good or great.

Joe

 

[leh1387]

OP, when did you apply? If you applied late in the cycle, I feel like unless you had STELLAR stats, your chances of getting an interview/accepted become very slim. I really think it's important to apply early. If you apply late in the game, space is probably very limited and schools may pass you over in hopes of gaining someone with higher stats. Your stats are better than mine! But I applied in September and October to most schools to help my chances, and I've been waitlisted at 2, interviewed at 2, and accepted at 1! Just my 0.02.

 

[pubicsymphysis]

When did you apply?

 

[GMA2013]

I didn't get in to any of the 10 schools I applied to either and had decent starts and great lor's .... I had gotten a really bad grade in a pre req and didn't have the new scour till academic update so that's all I know to continue it too.

Gpa: 3.56 (3.39 prior to update)
Pre req GPA: 3.62 (3.45 prior to update)
GRE: 154 q 156 v 4.0w
Hours: 100 outpatient 100 inpatient 50 SNF
Extra: president of pt club, school mascot, 2 year service mission....

I applied in August.... And didn't get in. I honestly think academic update doomed me. Stats above

 

[Azimuthal]

I applied in August.... And didn't get in. I honestly think academic update doomed me. Stats above

Hmmm... Should have gotten at least interviews. I would double check everything. Have you contacted the programs for feedback? How did supplementals go?

 

[cali122]

I applied in August.... And didn't get in. I honestly think academic update doomed me. Stats above

If by really bad you mean C then that could be it...although still iffy. Your stats are good enough to warrant a C unless its in anatomy. I've seen a lot get in with a C in chem or physics, myself included. But if by really bad you mean C- or D then it'd be because most don't except anything lower than a C in a Pre req course.

 

[GMA2013]

Hmmm... Should have gotten at least interviews. I would double check everything. Have you contacted the programs for feedback? How did supplementals go?

I got interviews just never accepted. When I contacted the programs they said it was my GPA. They said any other year I would have been across but this year was really competitive

 

[GMA2013]

If by really bad you mean C then that could be it...although still iffy. Your stats are good enough to warrant a C unless its in anatomy. I've seen a lot get in with a C in chem or physics, myself included. But if by really bad you mean C- or D then it'd be because most don't except anything lower than a C in a Pre req course.

It was human physiology and I got a D. Not my shining moment and completely my fault. I re took it last fall and got an A