Differences between Pain Societies?

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JBM16BYU

JBM16BYU

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Hi everyone! As a resident interested in pursuing a pain medicine fellowship, I’ve noticed that there are many many pain / spine societies (AAPM, NANS, ASIPP, SIS, NASS, ASPN, PSPS, etc). How do you decide, as a pain physician, which of these you pay dues to and try to get involved in?
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AAPM - the one true pain society.

ASRA - legit society, but not as good as AAPM for chronic pain. Still would consider them the second best chronic pain society.

NANS, ASIPP, SIS, NASS, ASPN - bunch of crooks taking massive industry money into personal accounts, promoting shady therapies, teaching FM, NP, and CRNAs weekend courses on how to do interventional procedures.
 
Mona nucleosis said:
AAPM - the one true pain society.

ASRA - legit society, but not as good as AAPM for chronic pain. Still would consider them the second best chronic pain society.

NANS, ASIPP, SIS, NASS, ASPN - bunch of crooks taking massive industry money into personal accounts, promoting shady therapies, teaching FM, NP, and CRNAs weekend courses on how to do interventional procedures.
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Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind. And your grouping of 5 very different societies is nonsense and makes you appear imbecilic.
 
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lobelsteve said:
Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind. And your grouping of 5 very different societies is nonsense and makes you appear imbecilic.
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ugh fine,

ASPN - corporate cash grab, teaches midlevels advanced procedures.

ASIPP - gives "board certification" to non-pain docs.

SIS - teaching non-pain docs interventional procedures round the clock

NASS - puts out "fellowship trained pain MDs" that most hospital systems and insurance companies dont recognize.

NANS- Their answer to absolutely everything is SCS and PNS. There is already enough inappropriate utilization of SCS and it'll have insurance coverage ramifications down the line.
 
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Mona nucleosis said:
ugh fine,

ASPN - corporate cash grab, teaches midlevels advanced procedures.

ASIPP - gives "board certification" to non-pain docs.

SIS - teaching non-pain docs interventional procedures round the clock

NASS - puts out "fellowship trained pain MDs" that most hospital systems and insurance companies dont recognize.

NANS- Their answer to absolutely everything is SCS and PNS. There is already enough inappropriate utilization of SCS and it'll have insurance coverage ramifications down the line.
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Thank you. We had a long discussion of this sort of stuff on previous threads and I had this discussion during fellowship with several big names. You are, for the most part, right on the money.

Some but not all of the above societies have some benefit in their own way.

The largest problem we have is lack of consensus on anything. This leads to offshoots such as the above.
 
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Wasn’t there some drama/schism/split in one of the societies a few years ago?

I belong to none because I am cheap AF
 
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As a resident I liked ASRA because their conferences were pretty good/fun. They accept lots of posters so if your institute gives conference money it's a winner. Now I'm a little less impressed but still good overall. Cheap to join as a resident and they give you a year of their journal for what its worth

Nans - seems like the more skeezy conference. Lots of stim talk, truthfully wouldn't recommend for residents unless you are just looking for a good time imo (usually hosted in LV)

SIS - seems to be a pretty good society - their website is absolutely chalk full of practice guidelines and videos. Lots of stuff is free/reasonably priced. SIS practice guidelines book is great and full of data on the procedures we do. Never been to a conference but seems academically focused

Don't have much experience with the others so don't really have an opinion
 
They all have their strengths/weaknesses.

AAPM - Pain Medicine joural
SIS - best technique guidelines, EBM, Fact Finders, coming out with their own journal soon, best overall imo
ASRA - has some good guidelines as well, like anticoagulation which are debatable but good to be able to cite
NANS - big SCS circle jerk but fun conferences, good stim courses, first to present new stim data
ASPN - new, very industry heavy bias
 
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Lots of crap talking from insecure people. We don’t have to talk smack. There are unique benefits to each pain society.

ASRA - more of a “comprehensive” pain society and more scholarly/academic crowd. Less industry bias. As mentioned above, typically accept a lot of posters and because it’s associated with the regional anesthesia society, it is more so geared towards the anesthesia-chronic pain crowd.

NANS - original Neuromod society. Certainly a significant industry bias but let’s be honest, collaboration with industry is the only way we will advance our speciality. We see it in so many other specialities too - cardiology, ortho, etc. not sure why it is demonized in pain medicine so long as it remains patient centric.

ASPN - new Neuromod society. I have really appreciated them coming to the forefront of the pain societies during COVID with their online webinars. Also have their own journal now. Significant industry bias but see comments above re: necessary evil.

ASPN and NANS have great cadaver courses for fellows.

I also recommend people to join their state/regional pain societies.
 
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For residents/fellows, I would ask your faculty what meetings they go to. If they don't, then consider leaning into ASRA or AAPM depending upon your training and consider NANS/ASPN if you're looking to be more of an implanter/neuromodulation person. The industry work seems to go mostly through NANS/ASPN, while ASPN seems to be aggressively courting to create a new stable of young pain faculty. All of them generally have the same talking heads and same companies, but there are flavor differences.

If you're looking to stay in the area of your training or go into a new area, going to the state/regional pain societies is a great way to network.
 
NANS, ASPN, PSPS, and Napa Pain are where the cool kids go. Attending these events is akin to having a spiritual transformation. You will walk away realizing all that is possible and myriad of ways pain doctors can change the game for their patients. Attendees and speakers are dressed to impress. Social interaction, hallways chatter, networking, etc are prime. It's KOL kindergarten. Dreams and careers are made and broken at these venues.

SIS, ASIPP, and AAPM are where the nerds go. Nerds. The speakers look like they bought their suits on sale at Target. Half the attendees wandering around the exhibits have their zippers down. Rooms filled with aging, balding doctors who look like they need to get to the gym more. You might pick up some good science, but not any good stock tips, real estate deals, or surgery center/tox lab/ DME joint venture opportunities.
 
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drusso said:
NANS, ASPN, PSPS, and Napa Pain are where the cool kids go. Attending these events is akin to having a spiritual transformation. You will walk away realizing all that is possible and myriad of ways pain doctors can change the game for their patients. Attendees and speakers are dressed to impress. Social interaction, hallways chatter, networking, etc are prime. It's KOL kindergarten. Dreams and careers are made and broken at these venues.

SIS, ASIPP, and AAPM are where the nerds go. Nerds. The speakers look like they bought their suits on sale at Target. Half the attendees wandering around the exhibits have their zippers down. Rooms filled with aging, balding doctors who look like they need to get to the gym more. You might pick up some good science, but not any good stock tips, real estate deals, or surgery center/tox lab/ DME joint venture opportunities.
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im sorry...

i read this to mean that the first group are where the posers go, and the last group are where the losers go.

i for one would rather stay home than laugh with the sinners or cry with the saints. :shifty:
 
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I will be at SIS. No suit. Looking lean and ripped. It’s all you need to know.
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#coolkidslunchtable
 
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Pain medicine is a difficult speciality to learn as a new fellow. So much is changing in the realm of technology and it is not easy to find a textbook/source to learn about these therapies objectively-- thus we rely on industry physicians. I have no attachment to any society, but ASPN does offer some good online educational seminars that can enhance your knowledge base if you keep industry bias in the back of your mind. I can't defend the LinkedIn posting which is beyond excessive by many in these positions.
 
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don't forget, that all this new technology is really just trying to reinvent the wheel, isn't that new, and really has not made that much of a difference. industry physicians are trying to program you in to thinking that they are. if you rely on industry physicians, you are not learning about them objectively. this forum is infinitely more objective than some sales pitch.

all these treatments - multi contact leads, HF, DRG, BurstDR - haven't made a wholesale change in overall rates of chronic pain.




maybe PRP will, although prior experience (per hawkeye) did not suggest so. maybe MILD.
 
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Ducttape said:
don't forget, that all this new technology is really just trying to reinvent the wheel, isn't that new, and really has not made that much of a difference. industry physicians are trying to program you in to thinking that they are. if you rely on industry physicians, you are not learning about them objectively. this forum is infinitely more objective than some sales pitch.

all these treatments - multi contact leads, HF, DRG, BurstDR - haven't made a wholesale change in overall rates of chronic pain.




maybe PRP will, although prior experience (per hawkeye) did not suggest so. maybe MILD.
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Well fusions used to be “bad” for patients in most situations. Apparently they’re now “good” bc pain docs can do them. Awesome. Being done for same reason dogs lick their balls….. cause they can. Nauseating to see the high fives all over linked about today’s new flavor of fusion that pain docs can do.
 
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American Pain Society was such a joke. I went to their last conference in Milwaukee(woof), probably the saddest meeting I've ever attended. At the end of the conference they announced the society was being dissolved. There is zero doubt in my mind that the meeting was a way to grift extra funds out of attendees to fight their legal battles.
 
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Baron Samedi said:
American Pain Society was such a joke. I went to their last conference in Milwaukee(woof), probably the saddest meeting I've ever attended. At the end of the conference they announced the society was being dissolved. There is zero doubt in my mind that the meeting was a way to grift extra funds out of attendees to fight their legal battles.
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In 2003 they had an amazing meeting in Chicago. It was over the top with the dinners and the drinks and the parties. I got $1000 for 10 minutes of listening about IV Tylenol which was coming to the market soon. I remember a party at House of blues and thought I was going to be on television. They had great lectures as well as free textbooks. I have a picture of all my swag from that meeting and I’ll post it when I’m back in the office. Those were the days. I was a resident at EVMS PMR.
 
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drusso said:
NANS, ASPN, PSPS, and Napa Pain are where the cool kids go. Attending these events is akin to having a spiritual transformation. You will walk away realizing all that is possible and myriad of ways pain doctors can change the game for their patients. Attendees and speakers are dressed to impress. Social interaction, hallways chatter, networking, etc are prime. It's KOL kindergarten. Dreams and careers are made and broken at these venues.

SIS, ASIPP, and AAPM are where the nerds go. Nerds. The speakers look like they bought their suits on sale at Target. Half the attendees wandering around the exhibits have their zippers down. Rooms filled with aging, balding doctors who look like they need to get to the gym more. You might pick up some good science, but not any good stock tips, real estate deals, or surgery center/tox lab/ DME joint venture opportunities.
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Well that makes me feel a lot better. Got all my suits pressed and ready; thought ahead on Sunday. Just deciding between my Hublot or Breitling watch. Maybe I'll bust out my Richard Mille.
 
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DrSpine said:
Well that makes me feel a lot better. Got all my suits pressed and ready; thought ahead on Sunday. Just deciding between my Hublot or Breitling watch. Maybe I'll bust out my Richard Mille.
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pain societies as watches:

ASRA - Seiko
NANS - Rolex
ASPN - Richard Mille
ASIPP - Tudor
AAPM - Citizen
 
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DrSpine said:
Well that makes me feel a lot better. Got all my suits pressed and ready; thought ahead on Sunday. Just deciding between my Hublot or Breitling watch. Maybe I'll bust out my Richard Mille.
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But what about your hair ;)
 
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what is this richard mille? i never even heard of that watch AND I am somewhat of time piece collector- paneri, brietling, hublot, audemars piguet
 
Not a Society, but I love going to PAINWeek in Vegas.

Some great science lectures.

And Craps all week.
 
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drusso said:
NANS, ASPN, PSPS, and Napa Pain are where the cool kids go. Attending these events is akin to having a spiritual transformation. You will walk away realizing all that is possible and myriad of ways pain doctors can change the game for their patients. Attendees and speakers are dressed to impress. Social interaction, hallways chatter, networking, etc are prime. It's KOL kindergarten. Dreams and careers are made and broken at these venues.

SIS, ASIPP, and AAPM are where the nerds go. Nerds. The speakers look like they bought their suits on sale at Target. Half the attendees wandering around the exhibits have their zippers down. Rooms filled with aging, balding doctors who look like they need to get to the gym more. You might pick up some good science, but not any good stock tips, real estate deals, or surgery center/tox lab/ DME joint venture opportunities.
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“KOL KINDERGARTEN” - this is the best!! Bullseye! Custom suits, pointy shoes, expensive eyewear and top shelf booze.

I think that SIS is definitely where the nerds go. I think, for the most part, that the people involved in SIS are genuine.
 
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jsaul said:
what is this richard mille? i never even heard of that watch AND I am somewhat of time piece collector- paneri, brietling, hublot, audemars piguet
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Trash brand popularized by rappers and athletes. Decently engineered though. Nothing is worse than Hublot though.
 
Who looks the coolest, pic 1, 2 or 3?
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Agast said:
Oh yeah? What does it say to you
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That I spent way too much for a pair of heels she's gonna wear once. My wife wore her Louboutins out for dinner once and just ruined the bottom. Do not wear those shoes off the red carpet if outdoors.
 
I really can’t imagine buying any of those things(shoes watches sports cars) making less than 3 mil. Some maybe are but most are serious posers(sorry drusso but I don’t think a mil is baller)
 
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GandalfTheWhite said:
Trash brand popularized by rappers and athletes. Decently engineered though. Nothing is worse than Hublot though.
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Richard Mille is crazy expensive, but I love Hublot. Probably my favorite watch alongside Breitling.
 
Taus said:
Well fusions used to be “bad” for patients in most situations. Apparently they’re now “good” bc pain docs can do them. Awesome. Being done for same reason dogs lick their balls….. cause they can. Nauseating to see the high fives all over linked about today’s new flavor of fusion that pain docs can do.
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But but Tiger Woods needed one...
 
Peterluger said:
Bunch of 45-50 year olds dressed like clowns
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Third guy seems fine, the other 2 are the kind who think they are celebrities in the cities they practice in and have cheesy staff who probably belong in a gentleman’s club.
 
nvrsumr said:
I really can’t imagine buying any of those things(shoes watches sports cars) making less than 3 mil. Some maybe are but most are serious posers(sorry drusso but I don’t think a mil is baller)
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@nvrsumr we have to some rules of thumb around here. I vigorously defend $1 million/yr as the gateway to baller-hood.

If you want to see how well you can live on a sub-baller salary, you should check out @lobelsteve sports car!
 
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ASPN is definitely trying to stay hip, with their IG and TikToks lol

DrSpine said:
Richard Mille is crazy expensive, but I love Hublot. Probably my favorite watch alongside Breitling.
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It really is. Not really sure why its trajectory took off the way it did. I like Breitlings new Heritage chronograph
photo.jpg


drusso said:
@nvrsumr we have to some rules of thumb around here. I vigorously defend $1 million/yr as the gateway to baller-hood.

If you want to see how well you can live on a sub-baller salary, you should check out @lobelsteve sports car!
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Agreed. I think driving a GT-R, DB11, R8, or a 458 while making 1M/year is appropriate. its whatever floats your boat, some people like vacations, some like watches, some like hookers and coke, and some like nice cars.
 
I don't know about all that fancy stuff, but I wanted to throw out a few more notes on pain societies:
USA SP is the new replacement APS and it is good for pain academics who want to do pain research and psychologists, not very useful for anyone else.

SIS and ASIPP have good procedure courses which are cheap for trainees, and the SIS textbook is really good.
All the pain societies are dominated by oversized personalities.
 
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SeniorWrangler said:
I don't know about all that fancy stuff, but I wanted to throw out a few more notes on pain societies:
USA SP is the new replacement APS and it is good for pain academics who want to do pain research and psychologists, not very useful for anyone else.

SIS and ASIPP have good procedure courses which are cheap for trainees, and the SIS textbook is really good.
All the pain societies are dominated by oversized personalities.
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tell us about these personalities...
Stephen Colbert Popcorn GIF
 
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