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I am planning on pursuing clinical pharmacy. I'm wondering how difficult it is to be able to get into a pharmacy residency program at a hospital.
Difficulty in Getting into a Pharmacy Residency Program
- Thread starter yavster5
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I wouldn't consider it very difficult to get into a pharmacy residency program if you set out to do so, however, some programs are much more competitive than others.
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I would have to agree with this up until this year.
ASHP experienced a 30% increase in applicants in the matching process. A lot of people were unmatched, including myself, b/c the competition has gotten insane.
I was told by preceptors I should have no problem getting any residency I wanted, applied to six, interviewed at 2, and was unmatched. Interviewed post match to 3 sites, all which said my grades weren't high enough. Which is sad b/c I know quite a few high grade ppl who have horrible social skills.
So dont count all your eggs in one basket. Make sure your grades are as high as possible, b/c even though preceptors and professors told me my professional organization involvement would count for something, it didnt, it all came down to grades. And make sure you apply to many, at least 10 programs I'd say
Its only going to continue to get more and more competitive
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Did you end up getting a residency position?
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Nope . I interviewed three post match (in person, I did 3 other phone interviews, so six total)
I had a ton of major professional involvement, but when it came down to it, it was always between me and someone else, and "someone else" got it b/c they had higher grades. I was told that flat out by two of the programs I flew out to.
The third one didnt even have the decency to call me and let me know they didnt want me, after I flew out there during the middle of a pretty intense rotation.
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not really
from what i've heard from med students
medical residencies are based upon USMLE's, which is pretty much like grades, since most medical schools are only pass fail
and maybe 5 years ago
but as more and more people apply to pharmacy school, and it continues to become more and more competitive, I'd say its becoming on par with getting into a medical residency
Plus there are a ton more medical residencies for med students, compared to the ratio of how many pharmacy ones there are to who want them.
Medical residency is an accepted fact so theres tons of programs, pharmacy residencies are still kind of new, so hospitals arent willing to fork over the budget for new programs
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A really good friend of mine and I applied for the same residency spot. I matched and she didn't - and that was a pretty sore subject because we both had good attributes and qualifications. Bottom line, keep your grades up (way up) and get involved in projects with professors and preceptors whenever possible. Do a student poster at Midyear your third year. Get to know your teachers and pharmacy managers to get good recommendations out of them. You really have to stand out against people from all over the country to get the residency of your choice. Sure, there are programs that do not match anyone and you can try and scramble to find one, but it might not be in a location you originally wanted to go. There are still a relatively low number of people from my school who applied for a residency, but as I said, not all of them matched.
I don't want to scare you off from doing one because it sounds hard to match. I had a great time in school and rarely felt overwhelmed or stressed out. Just be professional and network as much as possible. Show residency directors you are interested in their programs early on. It really is do-able, but it does seem like there is a lot more competition out there.
I don't want to scare you off from doing one because it sounds hard to match. I had a great time in school and rarely felt overwhelmed or stressed out. Just be professional and network as much as possible. Show residency directors you are interested in their programs early on. It really is do-able, but it does seem like there is a lot more competition out there.
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How many programs did u apply to? How many would you recommend?
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Mags - this may be a sore subject but what was your GPA? I'm a low 3.xer. Like 3.1- This is my last year to totally rock the grades (I'm told rotations help lots but how many of those will be factored in come interview time). I'm super involved with ASHP, I work a lot in a hospital (and have letters of rec coming from there), I volunteer... Other than grades and lack of research (may try to pick that up) I think the CV looks ok...
I guess I'm starting to stress that my grades are subpar... I'd always heard the involvement was more important. Have to say I'm less than thrilled to see things are changing.
I guess I'm starting to stress that my grades are subpar... I'd always heard the involvement was more important. Have to say I'm less than thrilled to see things are changing.
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Mine was a 3.1 and our rotations are pass fail. Although I got high pass on all, and honors on one. I ran for national election twice with apha, was an ashp president, and super involved with my school. Like you, I thought that would count, but apparently it didn't.
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Although I really don't recommend it for someone who is dead set on doing a residency, I only applied to one residency program, and matched to it. I really had no interest in moving away from my husband (and dog) for a year, and we also have a mortgage and student loans so it just didn't make sense financially. So for me, it was all or nothing (not that an extra 50-60K staffing would be "nothing"). I had a high GPA, and I did pretty much everything I said in my previous post. I wasn't going to risk matching to a place I didn't want to go, just to be "safe."
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I would say you need to stop hanging out in the pharmacy clubs, cut your work hours, give up the volunteering, and work on your grades. At least that's how I matched to my first choice....
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I don't know about the grades... 11 people from my class applied for residencies - and the only one who didn't match had 3.9 GPA, was an officer in Rho Chi (though they don't do anything, so I don't know what that counts for) and worked in an outpatient pharmacy of a local hospital for several years. I don't know what programs she applied to, or to how many.
I am under impression that it's mostly personality fit, more than grades or extracurriculars. That's my approach to getting jobs (and that's exactly what got me my fellowhip over some 20 other people
). I was invited to two interviews out of 5 I applied for, the two which were my top choice. I know why I wasn't invited for the other two - on two, it became obvious during informational interview that they weren't a good fit (I only applied because it was easy - they required hardly any paperwork, and I didn't put any effort into it - the only reason I bothered, is because I worked with one of the program's directors before, and I thought it would be rude not to apply. The other one - I think they didn't invite me because they overheard me confessing my love to the other program (which I ended up doing).
I am under impression that it's mostly personality fit, more than grades or extracurriculars. That's my approach to getting jobs (and that's exactly what got me my fellowhip over some 20 other people
). I was invited to two interviews out of 5 I applied for, the two which were my top choice. I know why I wasn't invited for the other two - on two, it became obvious during informational interview that they weren't a good fit (I only applied because it was easy - they required hardly any paperwork, and I didn't put any effort into it - the only reason I bothered, is because I worked with one of the program's directors before, and I thought it would be rude not to apply. The other one - I think they didn't invite me because they overheard me confessing my love to the other program (which I ended up doing). - Joined
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Hi everyone,
I'm a resident at SLRH and I was noticing that some of you are unmatched. If you are interested, I am leaving a pharmacy residency position soon in NYC. If you want more information, you can email me at [email protected].
I'm a resident at SLRH and I was noticing that some of you are unmatched. If you are interested, I am leaving a pharmacy residency position soon in NYC. If you want more information, you can email me at [email protected].
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I'm not to sure how it compares with other residencies, but this one has a heavy administrative component (more common to the NYC residencies). It's primarily reliant on the resident to engage in his/her own learning along with completion of longitudinal projects, rotational assignments, and the ASHP/Eastern states project.
It's is also a comparably young program (currently in its third year) and kinks still need to be worked out.
It's is also a comparably young program (currently in its third year) and kinks still need to be worked out.
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Some words of advice.
Involvment in school organizations etc although honorable is not going to enchance your chances of matching in a residency.
There is no substitute for good grades (not necessarily excellent), attitude towards learning i.e preceptors size uo who is interested in pharmacy and who is just talking that they are. Finally personality plays a major role as in how welll do you work with others. It really is quite simple.
Competition did become better last year but an intellectually mature pharm student should have no problem if he or she is serious about a residency.
Involvment in school organizations etc although honorable is not going to enchance your chances of matching in a residency.
There is no substitute for good grades (not necessarily excellent), attitude towards learning i.e preceptors size uo who is interested in pharmacy and who is just talking that they are. Finally personality plays a major role as in how welll do you work with others. It really is quite simple.
Competition did become better last year but an intellectually mature pharm student should have no problem if he or she is serious about a residency.
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I'm so glad to hear this cause I am not really involved in anything major. I know a lot of people who are barely passing and are president of every single club because they don't even have time to study. Everyone seems to think that if you're really involved, you have better chances of getting in than someone with good grades. Well, I need to stop letting my grades slip.
At my school, people have the same attitude. It just kind of puts an additional stress onto other students. I just don't see how being president of one group, vp of another, and then having another officer position at the third will make you a better resident. I guess it shows you can handle stress, but what about quality of your work? As a resident you are taking care of patients, and you want to prevent any mistakes happening...
I am not against being involved in student groups, but I think students need to stop acting that if they are super-involved they have a better shot than students with good grades...
I am not against being involved in student groups, but I think students need to stop acting that if they are super-involved they have a better shot than students with good grades...
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I think most programs look for a well rounded candidate. Be involved in EC's but not to the point where your grades suffer. During residency, you will be required to juggle multiple tasks at once...rounding/patient care, research, projects, staffing... If you are all about grades, you might not have sufficient experience in leadership. If you are all abour EC's you might lack some of the more clinical skills.
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This is very well said. The programs I looked into had candidates who were both involved and had great grades. That's really what most of them want. I was very active as well as one of my co-residents. We held officer positions in multiple organizations but also graduated with GPA's around 3.5. Programs want residents who are involved in leadership positions (my program marked that pretty high on the evaluations) and they also want residents who did well in school and know how to balance all of this. During your residency you will be expected to keep up with multiple deadlines and projects at once. I found that by being involved in organizations, I had to become good at managing my time. As Karm mentioned it's not all about grades or involvement it's about having a good combination of both.
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As far as qualifications, all I can say is based off my experiences both trying to get a residency and now on the other side of the table.
It's a mix of all of your attributes...............grades, "extra-cirriculars", work experience, personality etc. AND the attitudes/attributes of the residency program you are applying to........
To give personal examples, I worked for years as a staff pharmacist in hospitals and retail. Some of the residency programs thought that was great and made me a unique candidate with professional work experience. A few of the ones I talked to at Mid-year (both for Pharmacy Practice and the following year for Specialty) looked down on my past (mainly the years of retail). One even had the b@lls to say "wow, you really wasted your time." Needless to say, I never applied to those places.
Now on the other side, we do look at grades........you don't need a 4.0, but if you have a lot of C's and D's esp in the key classes like Therapeutics, we won't invite you for an interview. We have to stratify somehow on who comes on-site for an interview and we have taken those candidates (as residents) in the past and have had bad experiences.
We look at letters of recommendation, when you starting reading a lot of letters of recommendation, you start to pick on up "key phrases" that the person writing the letter is trying to tell you something without coming right out and saying it (i.e. it is usually something negative)
But mainly, if you pass those two (which most do), it comes down to your on-site interview, if your personality will fit with ours and if what you want meets what our program offers. For example, we don't offer peds, so if you have a strong interest in peds, we aren't the best for you. Also, we aren't a "school of pharmacy" residency so if you want a Vast amount of teaching experience, again we aren't the best for you.
Hope that helps.
It's a mix of all of your attributes...............grades, "extra-cirriculars", work experience, personality etc. AND the attitudes/attributes of the residency program you are applying to........
To give personal examples, I worked for years as a staff pharmacist in hospitals and retail. Some of the residency programs thought that was great and made me a unique candidate with professional work experience. A few of the ones I talked to at Mid-year (both for Pharmacy Practice and the following year for Specialty) looked down on my past (mainly the years of retail). One even had the b@lls to say "wow, you really wasted your time." Needless to say, I never applied to those places.
Now on the other side, we do look at grades........you don't need a 4.0, but if you have a lot of C's and D's esp in the key classes like Therapeutics, we won't invite you for an interview. We have to stratify somehow on who comes on-site for an interview and we have taken those candidates (as residents) in the past and have had bad experiences.
We look at letters of recommendation, when you starting reading a lot of letters of recommendation, you start to pick on up "key phrases" that the person writing the letter is trying to tell you something without coming right out and saying it (i.e. it is usually something negative)
But mainly, if you pass those two (which most do), it comes down to your on-site interview, if your personality will fit with ours and if what you want meets what our program offers. For example, we don't offer peds, so if you have a strong interest in peds, we aren't the best for you. Also, we aren't a "school of pharmacy" residency so if you want a Vast amount of teaching experience, again we aren't the best for you.
Hope that helps.
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VERY helpful. Thank you and keep the good info coming!
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I heard it helps if your fiancee's mom is one of the preceptors for the site, jk
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it is very competitive. it depends where you are applying. if you apply on the east coast there are too many city-based ones that are very hard to get.
i matched with a program.
If you don't match and have to work for a year, that is not a bad thing at all. Here we are coming out of residencies and there are no pharm jobs available where i am from. if i had just worked instead of residency, i would be employed. think of it in that manner.
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I wouldnt say it's too difficult as long as you bring all the right things to the table. It will depend on what you want out of your program...as well as other things like if you're geographically limited or not.
To reiterate what most say...being well-rounded is key.
You also have to take into account what kind of program you're coming from. For example coming from a top school with a mediocre gpa vs. a mediocre school with a stellar gpa.
But even in both of these situations, you want to also have a some involvement and leadership in an organization, membership in professional organizations, and a research project. You need things that set you apart from those other 50 applicants.
However, once you get that interview, everyone is somewhat equal. Now you need to show you're a good fit...you want to be a team-player, flexible, motivated, compassionate, etc.
Just be prepared and you'll be fine.
(We'll see how I feel after March 18th, haha)
To reiterate what most say...being well-rounded is key.
You also have to take into account what kind of program you're coming from. For example coming from a top school with a mediocre gpa vs. a mediocre school with a stellar gpa.
But even in both of these situations, you want to also have a some involvement and leadership in an organization, membership in professional organizations, and a research project. You need things that set you apart from those other 50 applicants.
However, once you get that interview, everyone is somewhat equal. Now you need to show you're a good fit...you want to be a team-player, flexible, motivated, compassionate, etc.
Just be prepared and you'll be fine.
(We'll see how I feel after March 18th, haha
)
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I dont have PharmD but BSPharmacy with 3.9 GPA and MS Biochemical Engineering with 4.0 GPA. I recently decided that Residency is the way to go so hopefully my grades along with 6 years experience in drug develoment willl help for 2010 positions .. I dont think i can get anything this year as i never participated in the match....sadly.
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With your drug development background have you thought about a fellowship or do you just need a change in atmosphere (i.e. residency)?
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Sorry if this has already been addressed, but how relevant are activities prior to Pharm School? i.e. in becoming the well balanced, ideal residency/fellowship candidate?
I had all that leadership, research, conferences & pub, community involvement, etc. stuff prior to Pharm school....so would it look lame/juvenile to include this on a CV when applying to residency programs? I'm hoping that the *major* things you've accomplished since starting college are kosher for a CV used to apply to residencies....
I don't want to over-commit to an excess of activites in Pharm school.
I had all that leadership, research, conferences & pub, community involvement, etc. stuff prior to Pharm school....so would it look lame/juvenile to include this on a CV when applying to residency programs? I'm hoping that the *major* things you've accomplished since starting college are kosher for a CV used to apply to residencies....
I don't want to over-commit to an excess of activites in Pharm school.
I'm not saying that the stuff you did before pharmacy school isn't important, but I really think the stuff you accomplish during school is going to hold A LOT more weight. Evaluators all know how much effort it takes to get through pharmacy school alone and showing them that you can multi-task and be involved both during school and within the profession of pharmacy during school will impress them more than what you did prior to school.
I would also encourage you to become actively involved during school, but don't spread yourself too thin. Pick activities you really enjoy and stay very committed to them. I know many students who dabbled in a bit of everything for the sake of filling up a CV but I think residency evaluators can see right through that and are more impressed by a larger amount of dedication to a smaller number of organizations/activities.
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Really.. On the residency panel, the speaker mentioned that grades & CVs only accounts for 20% of the packer. It's nothing compared to getting medical residency.. I was about to give up stressing out to get As..
I guess it may depends on the programs.
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While that may have been a joke (or not), you actually bring up a great point. It really does come down to marketing yourself and you certainly have to be well-rounded in order to do so. Taking the time to make a great CV that emphasizes your strengths and sets you apart is key (so obviously you have to have done some stuff in order to fill it up). And then in my honest opinion once you get the interview, it's all about the interview. Everyone they invite for an interview looks good on paper and now it's time to win them over with some charm!
Oh and a key point...be prepared to talk in detail about anything on your CV since it's all fair game at this point.
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He never jokes
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Much of what you said is true. Yet, I've seen incompetent jackasses who can charm the wit off of an interviewer. It is the job of the interviewer to see through the BS displayed on paper and during a face to face interview.
Don't BS a BSer on CV. They'll get you.
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Do you actually ever work when you are at work?
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Depends. I work from home unless I'm making site visits. I worked till 11pm last night... started at 7am. So don't you think I deserve occassional breaks here and there?
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I really don't understand what your job entails anyway.
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Very, very true. If you wrote any papers/journal clubs/etc...be sure you read through them all and refresh your memory before your interview(s). Also, something that hasn't been touched on yet...say you aren't the "perfect, well-rounded" student. As long as you prepare well for your interview and can answer questions about why you think that you qualify despite lacking certain things on your CV, you still have a chance.
Worked for me, anyway.
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In general, how competitive are community/clinic/Am care residencies? I am not really interested in the hospital based ones. Also, is there a way to find out how competitive a specific residency is without contacting the program director directly?
Thanks
Thanks
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I'm hoping to complete a residency as well. Currently trying to decide which pharm school to attend. I haven't seen anyone mention their particular pharm school's rep as being a factor.
Does that mean that the pharmacy school's reputation isn't as important when it comes to residencies? Does the rankings matter to the residency directors?
Does that mean that the pharmacy school's reputation isn't as important when it comes to residencies? Does the rankings matter to the residency directors?
I am trying to decide between UMich and Jefferson (first class just finished first yr - in philly- closer to home and pseudo significant other that likely won't do long distance).
Does it matter where one graduates from for a residency?
Does it matter where one graduates from for a residency?
