DiPiro: "Demand is about equal to supply."

Started by WVUPharm2007
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WVUPharm2007

WVUPharm2007

imagine sisyphus happy
Verified Member
Pharmacist
20+ Year Member
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I know, I know, there is a metathread. I don't give a damn. This is the opinion of a dean of one of the finest schools in the country and the editor of one of the two big therapeutics books. Contrasted with the opinions of one of the newer schools' deans below. It deserves its own thread...mostly because nobody reads the Chicken Little thread anymore...

LINK

Wynn said South, which will use video conferencing to link students in Columbia to professors in Savannah, does not view other pharmacy schools as competition.

"We view it as another school trying to provide trained pharmacists, just like us," Wynn said.

DiPiro said the increasing number of pharmacy schools has meant some changes.

"We talk now in our college that it is a much different atmosphere," he said. "We compete for faculty, for students and for training sites."

There was talk of a shortage of pharmacists in South Carolina and across the nation, but such a shortage has been hard to quantify.

And DiPiro is not sure it exists anymore.

It is not what it was a couple of years ago, DiPiro said, noting that five new pharmacy schools have opened recently in Tennessee, with additional schools opening in North Carolina and Georgia.

DiPiro said the economic downturn has led to business and health care cutbacks that have lessened the demand for pharmacists.

"It has changed dramatically within the last few years," he said. "Demand is about equal to supply."

South University is betting that won't always be the case.

"I believe there is an ever-growing demand for pharmacists globally," Wynn said. "With the aging population, there will be an increased need for pharmacists. I don't believe the need will be met."
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Thoughts?
 
I stopped by a pharmacy career fair this week and it was very crowded. Every room had an interview going on. This was for pharmacists not techs or interns (although pharm students were invited to attend and network) I strolled around looking for some freebies and none could be found! no free pens, food, etc. like I expected.

I wonder if the supply has outgrown the demand in any areas and resulted in layoffs?

The number of pharmacy schools in Ohio has gone from 4 to 6 in the past 2 years.
 
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At least Dipiro credited the economy as the source for the current woes in the pharmacy world, as opposed to putting all the blame squarely on new schools.
 
IrishHammer said:
At least Dipiro credited the economy as the source for the current woes in the pharmacy world, as opposed to putting all the blame squarely on new schools.
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Well, the economy certainly doesn't help, but when you go from 1 to 5 schools in the blink of an eye, then I'm confident placing the blame on new schools. Not to mention the original school almost doubled the class size to prevent this from happening. I wish I could meet the myopic SOBs responsible for this cluster****.
 
rphello said:
Well, the economy certainly doesn't help, but when you go from 1 to 5 schools in the blink of an eye, then I'm confident placing the blame on new schools. Not to mention the original school almost doubled the class size to prevent this from happening. I wish I could meet the myopic SOBs responsible for this cluster****.
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So you're fine placing the blame entirely on new schools...despite admitting that many original schools nearly doubled their class sizes. Husson University has a class size of 65. UF has a class of 300. Who's contributing more to the problem? Yeah, I know, I know...the original schools "provide a better education". Funny how many professors at new schools went to those original schools, and many of them taught at original schools before coming to new schools. I guess the schools must have been terrible before they left.

I'm not exonerating the rapid growth of pharmacy programs in the country; rather, I'm pointing out that it's far from the only cause and it's very nearsighted to believe otherwise. There are multiple causes to the problem (new schools opening, previously existing schools expanding class sizes, economic downturn, too many people all wanting the same job in the same city, employers in retail hiring anyone with a degree instead of waiting to hire people who will be the best fit). We're not seeing a case in which no graduates at all are being hired. We're seeing percentages of classes who can't find jobs. There's most likely a reason why that certain percentage couldn't find a job, simply beyond "well, it's the new school's fault". Maybe they had one of the lowest GPAs in their class. Maybe they weren't willing to be flexible to moving or taking a job in a field of pharmacy they didn't want to be in. Maybe they have an attitude problem and pissed off a lot of potential employers along the way.
 
IrishHammer said:
So you're fine placing the blame entirely on new schools...despite admitting that many original schools nearly doubled their class sizes.
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When did I say that? I admitted the problem is multifactorial . But where I live we went from 120 graduates per year to 500-600, all within one year. So hell yeah, that will put a squeeze on the job market in this state.
 
IrishHammer said:
So you're fine placing the blame entirely on new schools...despite admitting that many original schools nearly doubled their class sizes. Husson University has a class size of 65. UF has a class of 300. Who's contributing more to the problem? Yeah, I know, I know...the original schools "provide a better education". Funny how many professors at new schools went to those original schools, and many of them taught at original schools before coming to new schools. I guess the schools must have been terrible before they left.

I'm not exonerating the rapid growth of pharmacy programs in the country; rather, I'm pointing out that it's far from the only cause and it's very nearsighted to believe otherwise. There are multiple causes to the problem (new schools opening, previously existing schools expanding class sizes, economic downturn, too many people all wanting the same job in the same city, employers in retail hiring anyone with a degree instead of waiting to hire people who will be the best fit). We're not seeing a case in which no graduates at all are being hired. We're seeing percentages of classes who can't find jobs. There's most likely a reason why that certain percentage couldn't find a job, simply beyond "well, it's the new school's fault". Maybe they had one of the lowest GPAs in their class. Maybe they weren't willing to be flexible to moving or taking a job in a field of pharmacy they didn't want to be in. Maybe they have an attitude problem and pissed off a lot of potential employers along the way.
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QFT, it'll be a "bumping down" effect. We saw unmatched residents last year...they'll either scramble or enter the job market, further pushing down until your lowest performing students (note this isn't exclusively tied to academic performance) will struggle to find jobs. 5 years ago, any idiot with a PharmD could get a job, 40 hours, and a bonus.

So, in essence, we're turning into every other profession out there. DiPiro has it right...market fundamentals are there, but it's not gonna be a gravy train anymore. Life must have been good to be an RPh between 2000 and 2006 pulling in massive amounts of OT.

As for the professors, I agree completely....as I've mentioned before, most of my professors came from USP, Albany, and Univ. of Maryland + the existing medical school & hospital. Judge programs by the strength of their faculty, the year they opened is kind of a distraction statistic. The only thing you can tie to that is the first class entering statistics are probably lower than average, but they'll gain parity after several years (see: USN go from 2.8 to 3.7 in <10yrs). I believe new schools have comparable naplex pass rates (not like that test is difficult anyway, per WVU).

But with that, the "bumping down" effect rears its head. A shoo-in for a top program 5-6 years ago is barely getting in now.
 
What about ACPE, the organization that accredits pharmacy schools? Do they have the power to restrict approval of new schools? Judging by the number of new schools, I guess not.
 
I was recently speaking to a senior fellow at the one school to which I am applying about this very topic. He said that from what he has been hearing from preceptors, there is a big skill difference between students from schools like his (top 10, around forever, huge research $$$) and the newer schools.

My guess is that this will play out much like in law - where an education from a top school will open doors for you (especially with a residency, a concentration or a dual degree) - and that students from lower-ranked or unranked schools will be left with the less desirable jobs. Sooo a pharmd/MBA from a top school might land you a job at WAGS corporate - a pharmd from a new school might land you at WAGS in a store.

Also, pharmacists are taking on a variety of jobs now, from biotech to regulatory, so they might help the job market.

The wild card here I believe is the bpharm community - will employers feel that experience trumps all, or will they feel that more specialized clinical education -- from FAR younger (read: cheaper and more malleable) workers, and don't lie to yourself, that matters a lot -- is a better gamble as the field gets more competitive? Depending on how the field shakes out, they might end up much bigger losers in all this than new grads.
 
futuredruggist said:
What about ACPE, the organization that accredits pharmacy schools? Do they have the power to restrict approval of new schools? Judging by the number of new schools, I guess not.
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as long as they meet the requirements, they're set. They've progressively made them more and more cumbersome since 2004, but schools are still meeting the requirements.

It's like making a harder naplex won't restrict supply at all...people will just study the hell out of it and eventually pass.
 
Jetninjin said:
I was recently speaking to a senior fellow at the one school to which I am applying about this very topic. He said that from what he has been hearing from preceptors, there is a big skill difference between students from schools like his (top 10, around forever, huge research $$$) and the newer schools.
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funny my preceptors at my hospital were talking crap about USP students, they were even USP grads! I was kind of surprised.

at some point, it won't matter. 5 years down the line, school will be so far down the line it won't come into play. It DOES come into play with starting positions & initial opportunities like you said, but beyond that time frame, it becomes the sole responsibility of the practitioner.
 
IrishHammer said:
So you're fine placing the blame entirely on new schools...despite admitting that many original schools nearly doubled their class sizes. Husson University has a class size of 65. UF has a class of 300. Who's contributing more to the problem? Yeah, I know, I know...the original schools "provide a better education". Funny how many professors at new schools went to those original schools, and many of them taught at original schools before coming to new schools. I guess the schools must have been terrible before they left.

I'm not exonerating the rapid growth of pharmacy programs in the country; rather, I'm pointing out that it's far from the only cause and it's very nearsighted to believe otherwise. There are multiple causes to the problem (new schools opening, previously existing schools expanding class sizes, economic downturn, too many people all wanting the same job in the same city, employers in retail hiring anyone with a degree instead of waiting to hire people who will be the best fit). We're not seeing a case in which no graduates at all are being hired. We're seeing percentages of classes who can't find jobs. There's most likely a reason why that certain percentage couldn't find a job, simply beyond "well, it's the new school's fault". Maybe they had one of the lowest GPAs in their class. Maybe they weren't willing to be flexible to moving or taking a job in a field of pharmacy they didn't want to be in. Maybe they have an attitude problem and pissed off a lot of potential employers along the way.
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Even though you talk a lot for a pharmacy student (not even two years in), would you agree that 40 new pharmacy schools opening up in the last 5 years is the MAJOR contributing factor to the job situation right now? In addition, the majority of these new schools probably tripled their class size by now. Would you agree that it would be a bigger problem if we were to open another 40 schools by 2014 because that is where we are heading. Keep in mind that when I first started pharmacy, there were only 80 schools.

Either way, I cant wait until you graduate. You are in lala land if you think graduates are not being hired because of their gpa or are crappy employees. I have yet heard of an employer asking for sombody's GPA and I sure know that employers have no way of knowing how good an employee is if a new graduate has never been a RPH.

I dont know about you guys but I have a few customers who think that pharmacists are "a dime a dozen" now. If they are not happy with my service, there are only 3 to 4 other pharmacies within a 5 minute drive that they can go to.

In response to WVU, they recently opend a 3rd law school in Nashville where lawyers cant even find unpaid jobs. Like other posters, that is what I am envisioning for our profession. http://abovethelaw.com/2009/10/belmont_tn_to_open_new_law_sch.php
 
WAGS corporate.. don't need a Pharm.D/MBA from a top school for that .. you can be a total ***** to land that position
 
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Aznfarmerboi said:
Even though you talk a lot for a pharmacy student (not even two years in), would you agree that 40 new pharmacy schools opening up in the last 5 years is the MAJOR contributing factor to the job situation right now? In addition, the majority of these new schools probably tripled their class size by now. Would you agree that it would be a bigger problem if we were to open another 40 schools by 2014 because that is where we are heading. Keep in mind that when I first started pharmacy, there were only 80 schools.

Either way, I cant wait until you graduate. You are in lala land if you think graduates are not being hired because of their gpa or are crappy employees. I have yet heard of an employer asking for sombody's GPA and I sure know that employers have no way of knowing how good an employee is if a new graduate has never been a RPH.

I dont know about you guys but I have a few customers who think that pharmacists are "a dime a dozen" now. If they are not happy with my service, there are only 3 to 4 other pharmacies within a 5 minute drive that they can go to.

In response to WVU, they recently opend a 3rd law school in Nashville where lawyers cant even find unpaid jobs. Like other posters, that is what I am envisioning for our profession. http://abovethelaw.com/2009/10/belmont_tn_to_open_new_law_sch.php
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I didn't say it wasn't a factor. I said it wasn't the only factor. Rapid expansion of schools and student bodies (don't kid yourself, major universities care as little about saturation as new schools do...they're businesses just the same) will hurt the profession, but an economic crunch doesn't help either. And you might be right, maybe performance and attitude on rotations don't play into whether or not students get jobs. I simply threw it out there as a suggestion, not a stone cold truth. But indulge me. If that's so far-fetched, then why is there a large percentage of students, even from big schools (if I recall correctly, roughly 1/3 of Rutgers' class of 2009 didn't have a job upon graduation) who don't have jobs? Obviously there aren't enough jobs available, so what is it that separated that one third who didn't have jobs from the two thirds who did?
 
I still think healthcare reform is the wild card...if lobbyists have their way, costs will remain high and now we'll have tons of new pt's to service.

Of course, the day of reckoning will come when we'll have to inflate our way out of deficits or something, but who in congress thinks that far ahead?
 
I have a great respect for DiPiro. But he's speaking anecdotally when he says "demand = supply" unless he has a research to prove it. I tend to believe supply > demand. But anecdotally speaking of course.

Downturn in economy had some to do with the recent decrease in demand for pharmacists.

But here are the 2 real reasons why there aren't many jobs. And do know, it's going to get much worse.

1. Planned expansion of Wag's coming to an end: In the mid 90's, Wag's announced there will be a Wag's store on every corner of the US. This was an aggressive real estate goal more so than enhancement of pharmacy services. Wag's bought corner gas stations everywhere in the US and put up a pharmacy where they can. But the key number was 7,000 locations. We're there today and the expansion of Wag's is over. This in turn created a huge shortage of pharmacists during the expansion phase.. past 12 years or so. But it's over.

2. The planned expansion of Wag's created a pharmacist shortage propaganda which resulted in enterprising educators set up shop as they created PharmD diploma mills. Of course it takes minimum 3 to 4 years to crank out pharmacists yet Wag's patiently waited this out while luring young pharmacists with $15,000 signon to staff their new stores. Now the real issue is those diploma mills will keep producing pharmacists. Meanwhile, the demand for hospital pharmacists never kept pace with demand for retail pharmacist. And I do not foresee this will change.

Of course the downturn in the economy is preventing retirement of older pharmacists.

Increasing number of prescriptions? This is being met by automation more so than number of pharmacists. Wag's and CVS have plans to meet the demand of prescription numbers and it sure isn't through employing more pharmacists.

Brace for impact young grads coming out with $200,000 in student loans.
 
IrishHammer said:
And you might be right, maybe performance and attitude on rotations don't play into whether or not students get jobs. I simply threw it out there as a suggestion, not a stone cold truth.
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Oh please, you're right. It wouldn't be so annoying if he weren't trying to belittle you in the process. As someone who came from corporate management, trust me on this - if you are right out of school, employers look at GPA, they look at your concentration, they look at your internships, they look at how well your references/(preceptors) say you play with others, they look at the whole package. Just because a rank and file worker "never heard" of that happening only means that they are not privy to management's logic in making hiring decisions.

Interesting to where you heard that about Rutgers ... ? Most new PharmDs I know found the market a little tougher this year, but nothing like that!

Re. confettiflyer and inflation -- actually, the wheels are already turning on that. Little-known-fact, the CPI was gutted in recent years and is pretty much meaningless now (you can Google it). All it would take is a piece of legislation saying that Congress is going to "protect" entitlement programs like SS by tying an element of their payout to the CPI .... and then let inflation slowly but surely minimize our financial burden. So they are indeed thinking about it .... but they'd never admit it lest there be pitchforks.
 
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Jetninjin said:
Interesting to where you heard that about Rutgers ... ? Most new PharmDs I know found the market a little tougher this year, but nothing like that!
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There's some pharmacy careers magazine that my school has out in the lobby. The cover story was about the "shifting marketplace", and it mentioned the saturation already occurring in many major metro areas. I don't recall the exact number (I want to say 40%, give me about 24 hours and I'll get back to you on that), but it mentioned that whereas in years past, graduates had no problem finding a job, this past year a healthy percentage of the graduating class had not yet secured a job upon graduation.

StaviZFingerZ said:
I have a great respect for DiPiro. But he's speaking anecdotally when he says "demand = supply" unless he has a research to prove it. I tend to believe supply > demand. But anecdotally speaking of course.

Downturn in economy had some to do with the recent decrease in demand for pharmacists.

But here are the 2 real reasons why there aren't many jobs. And do know, it's going to get much worse.

1. Planned expansion of Wag's coming to an end: In the mid 90's, Wag's announced there will be a Wag's store on every corner of the US. This was an aggressive real estate goal more so than enhancement of pharmacy services. Wag's bought corner gas stations everywhere in the US and put up a pharmacy where they can. But the key number was 7,000 locations. We're there today and the expansion of Wag's is over. This in turn created a huge shortage of pharmacists during the expansion phase.. past 12 years or so. But it's over.

2. The planned expansion of Wag's created a pharmacist shortage propaganda which resulted in enterprising educators set up shop as they created PharmD diploma mills. Of course it takes minimum 3 to 4 years to crank out pharmacists yet Wag's patiently waited this out while luring young pharmacists with $15,000 signon to staff their new stores. Now the real issue is those diploma mills will keep producing pharmacists. Meanwhile, the demand for hospital pharmacists never kept pace with demand for retail pharmacist. And I do not foresee this will change.

Of course the downturn in the economy is preventing retirement of older pharmacists.

Increasing number of prescriptions? This is being met by automation more so than number of pharmacists. Wag's and CVS have plans to meet the demand of prescription numbers and it sure isn't through employing more pharmacists.

Brace for impact young grads coming out with $200,000 in student loans.
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that. Supply does exceed demand in some areas. In other areas, demand still exceeds supply. But those areas are disappearing as more pharmacists trickle out to those areas due to graduating without brand new stores nearby to accommodate them (this thought makes me kind of happy that the place I'd like to move to after graduation only has 9 pharmacy schools). On top of that, with the much larger pool of applicants, employers are afforded the luxury of selecting the best applicant instead of having to scramble to find anybody with a degree (Z, you yourself referenced this a while back in regards to the hospitals you are affiliated with), which will leave some pharmacists out in the cold. On one hand, that might be good for the profession, as it could help weed out bad pharmacists. Then again, that's in theory, and theory doesn't work in the real world. Plus, from a humane standpoint, I don't wish for anyone to be unemployed or destitute.
 
IrishHammer said:
I didn't say it wasn't a factor. I said it wasn't the only factor. Rapid expansion of schools and student bodies (don't kid yourself, major universities care as little about saturation as new schools do...they're businesses just the same) will hurt the profession, but an economic crunch doesn't help either. And you might be right, maybe performance and attitude on rotations don't play into whether or not students get jobs. I simply threw it out there as a suggestion, not a stone cold truth. But indulge me. If that's so far-fetched, then why is there a large percentage of students, even from big schools (if I recall correctly, roughly 1/3 of Rutgers' class of 2009 didn't have a job upon graduation) who don't have jobs? Obviously there aren't enough jobs available, so what is it that separated that one third who didn't have jobs from the two thirds who did?
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I wouldnt say that "one third" dont have jobs. We probably wont reach that percentage 5 years from now. However, usually people have jobs because they did an internship and worked at their place. The people who dont have jobs right now are usually because the hospital cannot hire them due to hiring freeze or more interns planned on staying than they were suppose to. Another thing is that companies might not give new graduates enough hour to fullfil their contract. Remember that it doesnt cost anything for a chain to sign you on and then take you on as they need you (somebody leaving or overnights).

To the guy who claims he was in corporate management, did you work for a pharmacy company...? At CVS, we dont ask our interns for their grades nor references. If they work for us, they are getting a job offer. The same goes for other chains. The only time grades becomes a factor is when you are applying for a residency. Other fields might consider a graduates' grades because they have nothing else to grade the person by. Your average pharmacist graduate on the other hand should at least have some sort of common sense, brains, put in some hard work, personality, and interpersonal communication skill or he wouldnt be licensed to begin with.
 
Well, Dipiro is at my school and I talked to him about that last year since I had the same concern.

SC is going to be a battlefield. They have problems already placing us in rotations. Two, new schools are opening this year.

Supply has started meeting demand and will only continue. The pharmacists had the power and now the power will swing back to the "big boy" retails. Watch over the next couple of years as salaries come down. I have heard in some places they have already started.....

This is the tail of the wave and and we are about to hit the beach...!!


Pharmacists will no longer be able to dictate to employers.....
 
If the proposed finance committee bill becomes law an estimated what.. 25 million more patients enter the system? If they dont need drugs now , they will eventually.
 
StaviZFingerZ said:
I have a great respect for DiPiro. But he's speaking anecdotally when he says "demand = supply" unless he has a research to prove it. I tend to believe supply > demand. But anecdotally speaking of course.

Downturn in economy had some to do with the recent decrease in demand for pharmacists.

But here are the 2 real reasons why there aren't many jobs. And do know, it's going to get much worse.

1. Planned expansion of Wag's coming to an end: In the mid 90's, Wag's announced there will be a Wag's store on every corner of the US. This was an aggressive real estate goal more so than enhancement of pharmacy services. Wag's bought corner gas stations everywhere in the US and put up a pharmacy where they can. But the key number was 7,000 locations. We're there today and the expansion of Wag's is over. This in turn created a huge shortage of pharmacists during the expansion phase.. past 12 years or so. But it's over.

2. The planned expansion of Wag's created a pharmacist shortage propaganda which resulted in enterprising educators set up shop as they created PharmD diploma mills. Of course it takes minimum 3 to 4 years to crank out pharmacists yet Wag's patiently waited this out while luring young pharmacists with $15,000 signon to staff their new stores. Now the real issue is those diploma mills will keep producing pharmacists. Meanwhile, the demand for hospital pharmacists never kept pace with demand for retail pharmacist. And I do not foresee this will change.

Of course the downturn in the economy is preventing retirement of older pharmacists.

Increasing number of prescriptions? This is being met by automation more so than number of pharmacists. Wag's and CVS have plans to meet the demand of prescription numbers and it sure isn't through employing more pharmacists.

Brace for impact young grads coming out with $200,000 in student loans.
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These are great points that really make some sense. Thanks for sharing.
 
StaviZFingerZ said:
So...did I talk you out of pharmacy school? Don't let me discourage you tho.. I still think there are opportunities for pharmacists..
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nah, you just made great points that actually had some sort of foundation (dunno about you, but I don't see that around here too often :laugh:). I enjoyed reading your take, that's all. I appreciate the encouragement 😍 need all i can get!
 
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J DUB said:
Well, Dipiro is at my school and I talked to him about that last year since I had the same concern.

SC is going to be a battlefield. They have problems already placing us in rotations. Two, new schools are opening this year.
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Two? Where is the other one? I didn't even know Fuhrman left until I found out he was at PC when I tried to email him.

I'm a Gamecock alumna 😀

No one seems to be opening schools in MN and WI thank goodness.
 
spacecowgirl said:
Two? Where is the other one? I didn't even know Fuhrman left until I found out he was at PC when I tried to email him.

I'm a Gamecock alumna 😀

No one seems to be opening schools in MN and WI thank goodness.
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Dr. Fox and McKelvey went too. Along with some others....


South Univeristy is the other. It is talked about at the beginning of the thread.

Yeah, things are getting tight around here.....in SC!!
 
J DUB said:
Dr. Fox and McKelvey went too. Along with some others....
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Really!?!? Wow. PK with Fox was my Waterloo in pharmacy school for some reason.

South Univeristy is the other. It is talked about at the beginning of the thread.

Yeah, things are getting tight around here.....in SC!!
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Ahhhhh, I see now. The Savannah campus will use my favorite education method for Columbia students 👎

Do they really need two pharmacy schools in Cola? It was hard enough to find rotation sites before.
 
spacecowgirl said:
Really!?!? Wow. PK with Fox was my Waterloo in pharmacy school for some reason.



Ahhhhh, I see now. The Savannah campus will use my favorite education method for Columbia students 👎

Do they really need two pharmacy schools in Cola? It was hard enough to find rotation sites before.
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I love watching lectures from home. Especially when I figured out the live link!!

It saved me so much time and effort. Fox was probably the only professor that actually challenged me. I had to prepare for her. Hard, but fair!!

Glad I will be done in a couple of months and not be around for that battle, lol!!
 
J DUB said:
The pharmacists had the power and now the power will swing back to the "big boy" retails. Watch over the next couple of years as salaries come down. I have heard in some places they have already started.....
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The big corporate chains have always had the power. We wasted our chance to affect some positive change on the profession. The time to do it was six or seven years ago. Instead of laughing all the way to the bank every payday and every student taking a job with the chain who gave out the biggest sign on bonus at the time we should have been demanding better working conditions and the like. We wasted our chance and now we are stuck with the consequences.

J DUB said:
This is the tail of the wave and we are about to hit the beach...!!


Pharmacists will no longer be able to dictate to employers.....
Click to expand...

That is the problem. Pharmacists never dictated anything to their employers. Pharmacists should have been dictating working conditions, staffing ratios and such. Instead we took the big pay raises and big sign on bonuses with out a second thought to the future.
 
MountainPharmD said:
The big corporate chains have always had the power. We wasted our chance to affect some positive change on the profession. The time to do it was six or seven years ago. Instead of laughing all the way to the bank every payday and every student taking a job with the chain who gave out the biggest sign on bonus at the time we should have been demanding better working conditions and the like. We wasted our chance and now we are stuck with the consequences.



That is the problem. Pharmacists never dictated anything to their employers. Pharmacists should have been dictating working conditions, staffing ratios and such. Instead we took the big pay raises and big sign on bonuses with out a second thought to the future.
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Yeah, good points. I was just talking about straight cash, homey!!

It's all about to get worse....😀 All that and less pay!!
 
type b pharmD said:
If the proposed finance committee bill becomes law an estimated what.. 25 million more patients enter the system? If they dont need drugs now , they will eventually.
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I agree. Some believe up to ~50 million are without health insurance, which is 20% of the United State's population under age 65. In my opinion, this plan will spark a greater demand for all health care professions, pharmacists included. Plus, the plan would not take effect until 2012. By then, the economy should be back to its normal state.

While the good days have come and gone (2000-2006), we can certainly anticipate another spark of demand for pharmacists.
 
EddieL said:
While the good days have come and gone (2000-2006), we can certainly anticipate another spark of demand for pharmacists.
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You have to look at what is currently going on. The incresed demand for prescriptions will be met by automation, mail order and programs like Walgreens POWER. The big chains have figured out it is not very smart or profitable to run 10,000 stores with three pharmacists on staff. We have already seen the reductions in staff. You would be hard pressed to find any chain pharmacy that has more than two pharmacists assigned to any one store. The chains have also slowed down their new store openings.

Tha name of the game today is volume baby. Fill as many prescriptions as you can and deliver them as cheaply as possible in order to maximize profit. Six figure salary Pharmacists do not fit into the equation. Prescriptions are just another commodity to be delived to the consumer as quickly and cheaply as possible. We can thank Wal-Mart and their $4 bull**** for starting that.
 
MountainPharmD said:
You have to look at what is currently going on. The incresed demand for prescriptions will be met by automation, mail order and programs like Walgreens POWER. The big chains have figured out it is not very smart or profitable to run 10,000 stores with three pharmacists on staff. We have already seen the reductions in staff. You would be hard pressed to find any chain pharmacy that has more than two pharmacists assigned to any one store. The chains have also slowed down their new store openings.
Click to expand...


You like repeating what other people have already said?
 
The supply already > the demand in general from last year...and with more pharm schools opening + slow economy like this...things only can look uglier....sigh***
 
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StaviZFingerZ said:
You like repeating what other people have already said?
Click to expand...

Aw crap! That is funny as ****! I didn't read the whole thread until just now.
I guess I could have just quoted you and saved the time typing. Here I will do it now.

Yeah, what this guy said,
StaviZFingerZ said:
I have a great respect for DiPiro. But he's speaking anecdotally when he says "demand = supply" unless he has a research to prove it. I tend to believe supply > demand. But anecdotally speaking of course.

Downturn in economy had some to do with the recent decrease in demand for pharmacists.

But here are the 2 real reasons why there aren't many jobs. And do know, it's going to get much worse.

1. Planned expansion of Wag's coming to an end: In the mid 90's, Wag's announced there will be a Wag's store on every corner of the US. This was an aggressive real estate goal more so than enhancement of pharmacy services. Wag's bought corner gas stations everywhere in the US and put up a pharmacy where they can. But the key number was 7,000 locations. We're there today and the expansion of Wag's is over. This in turn created a huge shortage of pharmacists during the expansion phase.. past 12 years or so. But it's over.

2. The planned expansion of Wag's created a pharmacist shortage propaganda which resulted in enterprising educators set up shop as they created PharmD diploma mills. Of course it takes minimum 3 to 4 years to crank out pharmacists yet Wag's patiently waited this out while luring young pharmacists with $15,000 signon to staff their new stores. Now the real issue is those diploma mills will keep producing pharmacists. Meanwhile, the demand for hospital pharmacists never kept pace with demand for retail pharmacist. And I do not foresee this will change.

Of course the downturn in the economy is preventing retirement of older pharmacists.

Increasing number of prescriptions? This is being met by automation more so than number of pharmacists. Wag's and CVS have plans to meet the demand of prescription numbers and it sure isn't through employing more pharmacists.

Brace for impact young grads coming out with $200,000 in student loans.
Click to expand...
 
buddy of mine who works at corporate for walgreens in the midwest told me the plan is to get rid of 7500 positions throughout the midwest and told me they are lying when they say power is being used to free up pharmacists time.

told me this 2 weeks ago
 
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