Direct Dental for 8 years

[dentalmom1]

Hello,
My daughter is a high school senior and she is a very smart kid. She has got admitted to Pitt GAP Dental program which is direct dental for 8 years without DAT. She has to maintain 3.8 science and overall gpa and dental course pre reqs. But the price tag for 8 years is very steep at 677k ( 477 tuition + 30k living expense per year). We need to take 400k student loan. She also wants to do ortho residency, which is another 200k. The insurmountable debt at the onset of her career is really worrisome. Do dentists make enough money to pay off 600k loan ? How much time it takes to pay off this loan? We are not planning to take the military route. We have instate UMich acceptance which is undergrad only. It will bring down the cost to 550k total for 8 years, provided she takes DAT and get into UMich.

She is very passionate about dentistry. What is the actual income of general dentists for first 5 years? I have heard it is 160k. That sounds too low for an education price tag of 600k plus.

How hard is it to get into dental school? Should we take the direct dental program inspite of big debt?

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[schmoob]

I think your numbers are off. 4 years undergrad + 4 years dental school + 3 years ortho residency you are looking at least $1MM wherever you go. The unsubsidized loans will earn interest while she is still in school.

 

[JacquesVallee]

She is very passionate about dentistry. What is the actual income of general dentists for first 5 years? I have heard it is 160k. That sounds too low for an education price tag of 600k plus.

I would recommend another career. I left dental school with about 200k in debt and wouldn't recommend dentistry for much more beyond that.

 

[D1Bound]

I’m reading a lot of We We We in your post. Who wants to do dentistry? Does your daughter? Or do you want your daughter to want to be a dentist? Right now I think I saw that unsubsidized students loans are at around 9% interest. Are you going to press your daughter to take on a loan like that? Contrary to the popular belief of 10 years ago, dentistry is not a career that you can fall out of bed, work 3 days a week, and have a great income/lifestyle. It will be a tough grind for the first 10-15 years of a career, no doubt about it.

 

[gryffindor]

To make the bigger money in dentistry requires one to be a small business owner. It is not like medicine where there are hospitals putting physicians on their payroll for $300K. There are a few dentists who work in places like hospitals but they are the minority. The majority of dentists are small business owners. Learning to run a business has been an entire career itself on top of being an orthodontist. It isn't impossible but it is a lot in addition to being a mom, if she wants a family as well. For my own kids, I will maybe let them pursue dentistry if they can graduate with around $400K total in debt or less. Total meaning undergrad + dental school + residency.

 

[OncePreDent]

I think your numbers are off. 4 years undergrad + 4 years dental school + 3 years ortho residency you are looking at least $1MM wherever you go. The unsubsidized loans will earn interest while she is still in school.

plus, in another 4-8 years imagine how much tuition is going to go up. Roseman University's orthodontic program has increased its tuition cost $10k per year for the last 2 years... I bet it will be in the $1.3-$1.6M range if they also want to do ortho.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I bet it will be in the $1.3-$1.6M range if they also want to do ortho.

Big Hoss

 

[charlestweed]

A lot of good advice has been offered here and I agree with all of them. OP, is it possible for you to convince your daughter to go to a cheap state school (cheaper than going to UMich), ask her to stay at home with you to save money, and help her earn a BS degree 100% debt free? Do you think your daughter will listen to you? I know it’s hard because I too have a son who is now a 3rd year undergrad student and I couldn’t convince him to go to a cheaper college and to live with us. I think you should ask your daughter to come here and read this thread and other similar threads on this forum about student loans and job prospects after dental school or ortho residency. And hopefully, she’ll make a good decision.

I think one should only choose such expensive 8-yr BS/DDS route if 1. He/she is just slightly above average academically and is not very good at taking big exam such as the DAT and 2. his/her parents can afford to help pay for at least half of the tuition. You said your daughter is a very good student. I think she’ll get in somewhere. My friends (husband and wife) are both dentists, who are doing ok financially but they not ultra rich like many of dentists I've known. Their son goes to a 6 yr (3+3) BS/DDS program at UOP. They could only help their son’s 3-yr undergrad + rents for all 6 years. Their son still has to take out $300kstudent loan for his dental education at UOP. $300k debt is a reasonable amount of debt to manage but that’s still a lot of money to pay back…..the monthly repayment amount is at least $4000/month, if he chooses to pay them back in 10 years.

 

[Saddleshoes]

An 18 year old kid should not be put in this position!
Too many things can change in the next 8-10 years. (Health Challenge, Prince Charming, Economic Disaster, Changes in Values, Etc. Etc. Etc.))

Take it one step at a time and look for the economical ways to do it. If the kid really is that smart she will rise to the top no matter which route she takes.


P.S. I am a dentist that trains young dentists in a residential program with two young adult children. I steered my kids away from dentistry. It is my belief that my young adult kids have better lives than my residents AND will continue to have better lives for years to come.

 

[dentalmom1]

Hello Everyone,
Need your valuable inputs:

My daughter is a high school senior and has got accepted to Out of State direct dental program( NO DAT) and it is costing us total 150k more than our instate school for the entire 8 years.. IN state we have only 4+4 route and no direct dental program and also it is not guaranteed that we will get instate dental school at this point.

If we take the traditional undergrad/dental school route,
1)How hard is it to get into dental school? SHe is very strong academically and focused student.
2)Is taking GAP year common to study for DAT
3) Research, shadowing, LOR - How difficult it is to get these opportunities to build a good profile for dental school applications

Is it really worth spending 150k more for the 8 year program and get it done together? Please advise.

Thanks
Mom

 

[wysdoc]

Hello Everyone,
Need your valuable inputs:

My daughter is a high school senior and has got accepted to Out of State direct dental program( NO DAT) and it is costing us total 150k more than our instate school for the entire 8 years.. IN state we have only 4+4 route and no direct dental program and also it is not guaranteed that we will get instate dental school at this point.

If we take the traditional undergrad/dental school route,
1)How hard is it to get into dental school? SHe is very strong academically and focused student.
2)Is taking GAP year common to study for DAT
3) Research, shadowing, LOR - How difficult it is to get these opportunities to build a good profile for dental school applications

Is it really worth spending 150k more for the 8 year program and get it done together? Please advise.

Thanks
Mom

Whose idea was it to apply to this program, hers or yours?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I steered my kids away from dentistry.

I will definitely be doing the same…

Big Hoss

 

[charlestweed]

An 18 year old kid should not be put in this position!
Too many things can change in the next 8-10 years. (Health Challenge, Prince Charming, Economic Disaster, Changes in Values, Etc. Etc. Etc.))

Take it one step at a time and look for the economical ways to do it. If the kid really is that smart she will rise to the top no matter which route she takes.


P.S. I am a dentist that trains young dentists in a residential program with two young adult children. I steered my kids away from dentistry. It is my belief that my young adult kids have better lives than my residents AND will continue to have better lives for years to come.

The hard part is to convince an 18yo HS kid to go to lesser known college to save money. It’s hard for a smart straight A student, who has taken a lot of AP classes, to make such decision when many of his/her smart friends in the same HS go to a more “prestigious” college. A lot of them want to live away from their parents because they want the “college experience”. Sadly, many of them don't want to listen to their parents and their parents cannot do anything about it,. And that’s why we have a $1.7 trillion student loan debt crisis in this country.

 

[dentalmom1]

we decided to shortlist direct dental colleges within 5hrs distance colleges and applied for all. We were hoping we get scholarships for OOS but it is still coming in very high with 150k difference.

 

[juniordentist]

She is very passionate about dentistry. I always cringe at this. She's 18, how is she passionate about dentistry? Because she went to an orthodontist as a kid and thought it was cool? So many kids want to be orthodontists because of this, but don't actually realise that they just haven't been exposed to much at all in life. I wouldn't be surprised if half the kids who want to do ortho would be equally eager to become a lawyer if they went to a really fancy private practice law firm when they were a teenager. The "passion for dentistry" is mostly because when they are 18 and making this decision they haven't been exposed to many careers at such a young age and don't have any idea of what it's actually like to be a dentist. Which would be fine if they didn't have to take out loans bigger than a house just to get educated

 

[wysdoc]

I'm going to merge this with your other thread asking the same question.

My opinion is to have her go to her state college for a lower tuition, do well, then apply to dental school IF she still wants to by then.
The conditions for automatic admission at the 8 year program you described are very steep.
If she doesn't meet the 3.8 GPA criterion as she goes along, what happens then? She will be applying broadly to dental schools anyhow.

 

[gryffindor]

I'm going to merge this with your other thread asking the same question.

My opinion is to have her go to her state college for a lower tuition, do well, then apply to dental school IF she still wants to by then.
The conditions for automatic admission at the 8 year program you described are very steep.
If she doesn't meet the 3.8 GPA criterion as she goes along, what happens then? She will be applying broadly to dental schools anyhow.

I was also wondering about the 3.8 GPA requirement. Back in the day this was a very difficult number to attain especially as a science major. But I've also heard about grade inflation everywhere these days so maybe all the college kids are coasting with 3.8 GPAs now.

 

[dentalmom1]

The hard part is to convince an 18yo HS kid to go to lesser known college to save money. It’s hard for a smart straight A student, who has taken a lot of AP classes, to make such decision when many of his/her smart friends in the same HS go to a more “prestigious” college. A lot of them want to live away from their parents because they want the “college experience”. Sadly, many of them don't want to listen to their parents and their parents cannot do anything about it,. And that’s why we have a $1.7 trillion student loan debt crisis in this country.

so true!! This is exactly my situation.

 

[dentalmom1]

She is very passionate about dentistry. I always cringe at this. She's 18, how is she passionate about dentistry? Because she went to an orthodontist as a kid and thought it was cool? So many kids want to be orthodontists because of this, but don't actually realise that they just haven't been exposed to much at all in life. I wouldn't be surprised if half the kids who want to do ortho would be equally eager to become a lawyer if they went to a really fancy private practice law firm when they were a teenager. The "passion for dentistry" is mostly because when they are 18 and making this decision they haven't been exposed to many careers at such a young age and don't have any idea of what it's actually like to be a dentist. Which would be fine if they didn't have to take out loans bigger than a house just to get educated

you have a very valid point actually. You are right, now that I think about it. Passion is too strong a word right now. She is highly interested but it could very well change during undergrad when she has more exposure. But having a direct and guranteed path is nice to have, if people have the money for it.

 

[GoDental101]

I would say stop helping them figure this out and let them figure it out on their own. If they are not a self starter then the dental profession will not work well for them. She's going to be the one grinding day in and day out to make this happen as well as day in and day out as a dental professional which is very challenging.

 

[GoDental101]

 

[charlestweed]

so true!! This is exactly my situation.

You are not alone. My wife and I have a lot of friends who have kids who applied/are applying for colleges, med schools, pharmacy schools, and dental schools. And many of their kids picked very expensive out of state colleges over the much cheaper state schools. My son’s decision to attend UCLA for his undergrad cost me an additional $100k. It’s because UCLA is a more prestigious than the school near our house and it has a football team. It’s expensive to live in LA (vs free at home). It could have been a lot more if we allowed him to have car there and have to pay for long term parking permit. Fortunately, UCLA is a public school with reasonable in state tuition.

 

[charlestweed]

Every job has its own set of advantages and disadvantages. The video above only pointed out the disadvantages and those were all true. But there are a lot of advantages of being a dentist as well like a guaranteed 6-figure income right after graduation, job stability, being your own boss, setting your own work schedule, helping your patients to have beautiful smiles etc. The reality is there aren’t many jobs out there that pay 6-figure income that don’t require a college degree, hard work, and sacrifice.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

You are not alone. My wife and I have a lot of friends who have kids who applied/are applying for colleges, med schools, pharmacy schools, and dental schools. And many of their kids picked very expensive out of state colleges over the much cheaper state schools. My son’s decision to attend UCLA for his undergrad cost me an additional $100k. It’s because UCLA is a more prestigious than the school near our house and it has a football team. It’s expensive to live in LA (vs free at home). It could have been a lot more if we allowed him to have car there and have to pay for long term parking permit. Fortunately, UCLA is a public school with reasonable in state tuition.

Didn't you go to UCLA (Univ for Caucasians Lost among Asians)? Which 18 yo Asian kid wouldn't want to go there to meet Kpop stars and celebs? I met a few that got into Harvard but not to UCLA. There are even fun beaches to go "study" across the freeway in Santa Monica. I know they rather cram 5 guys into a 1 bedroom apt than to "live free at home."

 

[charlestweed]

Didn't you go to UCLA (Univ for Caucasians Lost among Asians)? Which 18 yo Asian kid wouldn't want to go there to meet Kpop stars and celebs? I met a few that got into Harvard but not to UCLA. There are even fun beaches to go "study" across the freeway in Santa Monica. I know they rather cram 5 guys into a 1 bedroom apt than to "live free at home."

I went to UC Irvine (aka University of Chinese Immigrants) for my undergrad.....and I lived at home....free delicious meal every day (thanks, mom).....$0 undergrad debt. It’s where I wanted my son to attend and the school offered him a $5000/yr scholarship. But he wanted to go to UCLA. You’re right, he’d rather share a tiny dorm room with 2 other roommates than living with my wife and me.

I went to UCLA dental school because it’s the only cheap dental school in SoCal. It's no longer cheap.... now, it's at least $400k if you include rents + living expenses.