disadvantaged students.

[dia009]

this might be a really ******ed question, but..
do asian people count as disadvantaged?
we apparently didn't count when CA had affirmative action..
i don't know about now

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[Critical Mass]

Asian = model minority

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority

 

[dutchman]

Troll another day.

 

[Critical Mass]

Asians are not typically under-represented, so I don't know that they've ever been considered "disadvantaged," nor did I realize that race alone was a criterion for being disadvantaged.

 

[inside_edition]

Asian = model minority

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority

I declare flame war.

 

[Critical Mass]

I declare flame war.

I'm just quoting wikipedia. Flame the wiki author!

 

[ocwaveoc]

In fact, stats for Caucasians and Asians are about the same for what is generally considered acceptable at most med schools while other races which are under represented in medicine have lower stats (in my research about 0.2 lower in GPA and 1.0 - 1.5 per section lower in MCAT) for matriculants....according to MSAR.

 

[LizzyM]

OP, you are confusing "under represented minority" (URM) with economically disadvantaged. AMCAS has a yes/no question on whether you grew up in an economically disadvantaged household. If yes, then there is a section on the AMCAS application where you can further discribe your situation with regard to your perception of whether the area (county) where you grew up was medically underserved, your family's annual income, your use of goverment assistance when you were growing up (0-18 years of age), and how you met your undergrad expenses (% need based financial aid, % academic scholarships, % loans, % family contribution, etc).

There is also a registry called MedMAR that you can sign up for when you take the MCAT. See http://www.aamc.org/students/minorities/resources/medmar.htm

 

[ygiron]

this might be a really ******ed question, but..
do asian people count as disadvantaged?
we apparently didn't count when CA had affirmative action..
i don't know about now

hey DIA...with regard to your question...asian, white, african american, latino, etc can ALL qualify as disadvantaged!!!! what you dont qualify for is beging considered a MINORITY...that is determined by AMCAS....for disadvantaged consideration go to the AMCAS WEB SITE....from my understanding it is someone who has had some sort of extrodinary hardship whether financial, 1st in family to go to college, physicial or mental disability, etc....

on the primary application you have to make your case though for why med schools should consider you disadvantaged...

you can call AMCAS if you want further clarification....

hope this helps...

good luck...

 

[moto_za]

Not to start a war, but, does it help as much to be disadvantaged (economically) as it does to be conidered a minority? thanks

 

[sejin8642]

Well, I define the disadvantaged as those who have experienced starvation to the point of dead. So you are not disadvantaged.

 

[moto_za]

Well, I define the disadvantaged as those who have experienced starvation to the point of dead. So you are not disadvantaged.

thanks, but that does not answer the question.

 

[sejin8642]

thanks, but that does not answer the question.

Assuming that it must be another stupid question, actually I didn't read the OP's question.

 

[DoctaJay]

Not to start a war, but, does it help as much to be disadvantaged (economically) as it does to be conidered a minority? thanks

I'm sure that you have no desire to start a war. If you are truly economically disadvantaged, then you are the same footing as URMs, because it is assumed that you will go back to where you came from, and provide healthcare. You might even have more of an advantage.

 

[Critical Mass]

Not to start a war, but, does it help as much to be disadvantaged (economically) as it does to be conidered a minority? thanks

Agree with the 6'5" bar of chocolate, but I'll add that different schools might define "disadvantaged" differently whereas URM status can come right off of the AMCAS. You just check a box without providing DNA or anything like that, but for disadvantaged, I think that you actually have to explain why.

 

[Jinterpol]

this might be a really ******ed question, but..
do asian people count as disadvantaged?
we apparently didn't count when CA had affirmative action..
i don't know about now

You are not disadvantaged b/c you are Asian. You have been kidding yourself if you think this makes you eligible for disadvantaged status. I hope you choose another profession if you're going to be like this in the future.

 

[LizzyM]

Not to start a war, but, does it help as much to be disadvantaged (economically) as it does to be conidered a minority? thanks

It may depend on the school and their goals.

Showing that you have done well despite economic hardships in childhood does get an adcom's respect.

While it doesnt' require a fatal case of malnutrition, economic disadvantage might be something along the lines of living in government subsidized housing or a homeless shelter, and/or qualifying for free or reduced price school lunch and/or Medicaid (government health care payments for the poor and disabled), working to help support your family while in high school (actually paying household bills, not just spending money for clothes & entertainment). If you were raised by a single parent, and if your parent worked for minimum wage or had health issues that greatly reduced the income available to the household then you might be justified in identifying as "disadvantaged".

These applicants often don't have the advantage of taking MCAT classes, tutors, private music & dance lessons (for well-roundedness), foreign travel, parents & neighbors with connections to shadowing and summer employment in health care settings.

 

[TleilaxuMD]

It may depend on the school and their goals.

Showing that you have done well despite economic hardships in childhood does get an adcom's respect.

While it doesnt' require a fatal case of malnutrition, economic disadvantage might be something along the lines of living in government subsidized housing or a homeless shelter, and/or qualifying for free or reduced price school lunch and/or Medicaid (government health care payments for the poor and disabled), working to help support your family while in high school (actually paying household bills, not just spending money for clothes & entertainment). If you were raised by a single parent, and if your parent worked for minimum wage or had health issues that greatly reduced the income available to the household then you might be justified in identifying as "disadvantaged".

These applicants often don't have the advantage of taking MCAT classes, tutors, private music & dance lessons (for well-roundedness), foreign travel, parents & neighbors with connections to shadowing and summer employment in health care settings.

Yup....the knowledge speaker.

 

[sirdude]

Another question, as I couldn't find it on the AMCAS website.

To what level of income does AMCAS begin to classify one as economically disadvantaged, or disadvantaged in any regard??

 

[alwaysaangel]

Another question, as I couldn't find it on the AMCAS website.

To what level of income does AMCAS begin to classify one as economically disadvantaged, or disadvantaged in any regard??

They don't. You decide. You decide if you want to apply as disadvantaged and you write an essay explaining why you think you are. They draw no lines. I grew up in a family of 4 with an income of about 25k and I chose not to apply as disadvantaged, because I had good public schools and didn't live in some ghetto.

Its a very tough personal decision whether or not to apply as disadvantaged. I'd say the key is to look at yourself and decide whether or not your life caused significant problems in your youth to the point that you did not get the same opportunities as a normal HS student.

 

[stiffany]

They don't. You decide. You decide if you want to apply as disadvantaged and you write an essay explaining why you think you are. They draw no lines. I grew up in a family of 4 with an income of about 25k and I chose not to apply as disadvantaged, because I had good public schools and didn't live in some ghetto.

Its a very personal decision whether or not to apply as disadvantaged. I'd say the key is to look at yourself and decide whether or not your life caused significant problems in your youth to the point that you did not get the same opportunities as a normal HS student.

Yes, as alwaysaangel said, it's a personal decision as to whether or not you check the disadvantaged box and write the 1100 character or whatever statement about your history. I chose to given my background and personal belief that relative to the average medical school applicant I did have a disadvantaged background. My background was brought up during one interview in a positive light so I think whatever you decide you can't be faulted for it. (As long as you're not complaining about not having a new beamer to drive to school in or having to occassionally work for extra spending money to go out and party or buy new clothes during college - things like that aren't considered disadvantages).

 

[Jinterpol]

These applicants often don't have the advantage of taking MCAT classes, tutors, private music & dance lessons (for well-roundedness), foreign travel, parents & neighbors with connections to shadowing and summer employment in health care settings.

Are you kidding? What kid actually has access to all that? MCAT tutors and parents who will pay for your trips to Spain and Thailand while you're not volunteering in your uncle's clinic? What I think people are forgetting here is that some people are always going to have "advantaged" backgrounds. There isn't anything you can do about that; and one person's advantages do not inversely affect your own.

If you want foreign travel, work for it wherever you can. If you want to shadow an anesthesiologist, make some cold calls or ask your PCP if he/she knows someone. If you want a good MCAT score, study for it like you would if you were in medical school. And if you want to learn to speak spanish or play guitar, you don't need to come from an affluent family. Saying you are not advantaged is not the same as being disadvantaged.

 

[LizzyM]

Saying you are not advantaged is not the same as being disadvantaged.

Many people grew up in middle-class households, didn't have physician parents or physician neighbors, worked for spending money, might have had a few opportunities but not the whole range of things I listed previously. These applicants are neither advantaged nor disadvantaged.

Contrast this with an application from someone (true story -- details somewhat changed to protect identity) who never knew who her father was, whose mother worked as a waitress at Dennys, and who went to work at age 16 so as to be able to afford to buy school supplies for herself & her younger sibling. Full scholarship to an A-list school & a good gpa there.

If I compare extra-curriculars, etc for that applicant with others from the same school, some of whom clearly come from households with incomes of $250,000 or more, should I give some consideration to the applicant's economic disadvantage?

 

[psipsina]

Are you kidding? What kid actually has access to all that? MCAT tutors and parents who will pay for your trips to Spain and Thailand while you're not volunteering in your uncle's clinic? What I think people are forgetting here is that some people are always going to have "advantaged" backgrounds. There isn't anything you can do about that; and one person's advantages do not inversely affect your own.

If you want foreign travel, work for it wherever you can. If you want to shadow an anesthesiologist, make some cold calls or ask your PCP if he/she knows someone. If you want a good MCAT score, study for it like you would if you were in medical school. And if you want to learn to speak spanish or play guitar, you don't need to come from an affluent family. Saying you are not advantaged is not the same as being disadvantaged.

The crazy thing is alot of the applicants to medschools do have all those things. . . weird but true.

I think the point of the amcas disadvantaged status is to see if not only did you not have these advantages did you also have obstacles in addition. I applied disadvantaged and it was a very difficult decision to apply that term to myself but I realized that during the course of my education I faced not only a lack of certain advantages but obstacles that other students didn't have to overcome. I actually came from a family situation that was financially stable for most of my life but was unstable in other ways. My father died when I was young and I was left with a single mom who suffers from a serious psychological disorder that went undiagnosed for most of my life. There are many types of disadvantages and only an individual can truely judge if they experienced them.

 

[baylormed]

Disadvantaged and URM are two different categories. You do not qualify as a URM since you are Asian, but you may be disadvantaged regardless of that.

 

[Jinterpol]

Should I have been disadvantaged if my mother has psychological problems and my father is a drug addict? He was a great father. We played catch and went fishing. My mom acts crazy about every 10 days, but is still the greatest mother in the entire world. I had a job when I was 16. My sister died when I was 10, and my mom has never been the same.

I didn't even consider applying as a disadvantaged student and wouldn't do it if I had another chance either.

 

[LizzyM]

Should I have been disadvantaged if my mother has psychological problems and my father is a drug addict? He was a great father. We played catch and went fishing. My mom acts crazy about every 10 days, but is still the greatest mother in the entire world. I had a job when I was 16. My sister died when I was 10, and my mom has never been the same.

I didn't even consider applying as a disadvantaged student and wouldn't do it if I had another chance either.

One who grew up disadvantaged can choose to self-identify. Mostly it is about economic disadvantage: the dollar amount of household income during your formative years, use of government subsidies and services (school lunch, housing projects or Section 8 housing, Medicaid/Medi-Cal), the need to work while in HS and whether that money paid the household bills or was your own "spending money", and whether you think that your community was under-served with regard to access to physicians.

Its a moot point if you've already been admitted but drugs, mental illness and a siblings death does not necessarily make you economically disadvantaged. There are more than a few offspring of rockstars who would fit that discription.

 

[sejin8642]

One who grew up disadvantaged can choose to self-identify. Mostly it is about economic disadvantage: the dollar amount of household income during your formative years, use of government subsidies and services (school lunch, housing projects or Section 8 housing, Medicaid/Medi-Cal), the need to work while in HS and whether that money paid the household bills or was your own "spending money", and whether you think that your community was under-served with regard to access to physicians.

Its a moot point if you've already been admitted but drugs, mental illness and a siblings death does not necessarily make you economically disadvantaged. There are more than a few offspring of rockstars who would fit that discription.

I gotta refute your view of disadvantaged. I personally believe that economically poor families do not affect child's academic performance in any way. I don't see any evidence that money = brilliance. In US we have pretty good public school systems and government pretty much pays everything for kids and teenagers' education.

 

[turkleton]

I think I've read that all Asians comprise more than 1/3 of the practicing physicians in this country... not bad for 4-5% of the population. The only disadvangate you suffer as an Asian is that all the races are too smart for their own good... you better hope that schools don't have a quota otherwise that will be one helluva a competition.

 

[Jinterpol]

One who grew up disadvantaged can choose to self-identify. Mostly it is about economic disadvantage: the dollar amount of household income during your formative years, use of government subsidies and services (school lunch, housing projects or Section 8 housing, Medicaid/Medi-Cal), the need to work while in HS and whether that money paid the household bills or was your own "spending money", and whether you think that your community was under-served with regard to access to physicians.

Its a moot point if you've already been admitted but drugs, mental illness and a siblings death does not necessarily make you economically disadvantaged. There are more than a few offspring of rockstars who would fit that discription.

Agreed. Thank you.

 

[BarrySanders]

I gotta refute your view of disadvantaged. I personally believe that economically poor families do not affect child's academic performance in any way. I don't see any evidence that money = brilliance. In US we have pretty good public school systems and government pretty much pays everything for kids and teenagers' education.

What country do you live in?

 

[alwaysaangel]

What country do you live in?

I was thinking the same thing. Our public school system SUCKS. And the poorer you are the more likely it is you live in an area with a TERRIBLE school system.

If you don't think economic disadvantage (can often) = academic disadvantage then you need to spend more time with people who don't have country club memberships.

 

[psipsina]

Should I have been disadvantaged if my mother has psychological problems and my father is a drug addict? He was a great father. We played catch and went fishing. My mom acts crazy about every 10 days, but is still the greatest mother in the entire world. I had a job when I was 16. My sister died when I was 10, and my mom has never been the same.

I didn't even consider applying as a disadvantaged student and wouldn't do it if I had another chance either.

As I think this was a direct response to my post I'll reply. Only you can determine if you are disadvantaged. If your fathers addiction and your moms bouts of crazy (btw there is a difference between acting crazy and being actually clinically psychotic) weren't great obstacles for you in your education then you aren't disadvantaged. Congrats on that. But some people in similar situations Could have an entirely different experience and feel that their experience was an obstacle to their education and therefore could apply as disadvantaged.

Its easy to judge others when you haven't lived their lives, which is why only the person who declares themselves disadvantaged has the right to make that determination. If someone chooses to claim disadvantaged status they will be thouroughly interrogated about their circumstances if they are granted an interview so its not like you can just check this off and expect no one to dig a bit deeper. But obviously things other than finances can be obstacles to education, though this is probably the most common obstacle, and adcomms understand this and recognize these other situations when presented with them. I can state this as a fact because I received four interviews and three acceptances and none of these people seemed to have any issue with why I felt I was disadvantaged.

 

[deleted103644]

How does growing up in an underserved area come into the picture? I know that factors into "disadvantaged" status, but didn't think that was enough for me to put it down on my app.

 

[alwaysaangel]

How does growing up in an underserved area come into the picture? I know that factors into "disadvantaged" status, but didn't think that was enough for me to put it down on my app.

It all comes down to the same thing - do you FEEL you were disadvantaged and can you justify it on your application and at interviews.

If your feeling is genuine you'll be fine. If its "poor little rich kid" then its not going to reflect well on you. For example, a friend of mine was applying to colleges (not med school, just colleges) and had me read her personal statement after she had sent in her UC application, but before most of her others. It was this totally ridiculous essay on how hard she had to work to pay for her own spending money, because her parents wouldn't give her any. And she had to work part-time during high school to get her clothes and pay for gas for the brand new Jetta her parents got her, etc. etc. IT WAS AWFUL. I told her so and she changed it. She didn't get into a single UC but had pretty good luck with a couple of out of state schools. So yeah as long as its genuine and not just you whining it certainly can't hurt you.

 

[LizzyM]

I gotta refute your view of disadvantaged. I personally believe that economically poor families do not affect child's academic performance in any way. I don't see any evidence that money = brilliance. In US we have pretty good public school systems and government pretty much pays everything for kids and teenagers' education.

I could write a book refuting this statement. Suffice to say that you are naive.

 

[LizzyM]

How does growing up in an underserved area come into the picture? I know that factors into "disadvantaged" status, but didn't think that was enough for me to put it down on my app.

IMHO it is not relevant but it is included as one of the questions asked of applicants who self-identify as "disadvantaged".

 

[HereIAm]

.....

 

[DoctaJay]

I gotta refute your view of disadvantaged. I personally believe that economically poor families do not affect child's academic performance in any way. I don't see any evidence that money = brilliance. In US we have pretty good public school systems and government pretty much pays everything for kids and teenagers' education.

I want you to walk into any inner city public school and you tell me whether those kids are academically challenged. There is a perpetual cycle: young kids drop out of HIGH/JUNIOR HIGHschool and have kids --> due to lack of education the parents can't secure a decent job --> their kids grow up, go to school, but due to lack of example anywhere in their immediate vicinity, they drop out too --> these drop outs have more kids and the cycle continues. The lucky ones actually play sports or get into the music industry; and its almost silly to think that these kids will one day become doctors (not impossible, but almost silly).

 

[LizzyM]

Am I disadvantaged, or does that not count since it didn't happen in my childhood?

This might be better addressed in your essay rather than checking the "disadvantaged" box which is about economic disadvantage that had a negative impact on your educational opportunities.

 

[HereIAm]

Oh, I see now. Thanks.

 

[LizzyM]

The lucky ones actually play sports or get into the music industry; and its almost silly to think that these kids will one day become doctors (not impossible, but almost silly).

The military is a way up & out for some kids -- far more than can make it in professional sports or the music industry.

 

[DoctaJay]

The military is a way up & out for some kids -- far more than can make it in professional sports or the music industry.

Quite true.

 

[Vvandenn]

Hmm!

 

[moto_za]

how do you people distinguish between economically disadvantaged and educationally disadvantaged? thanks

 

[sirdude]

Ok, so I grew up out in the country. The schools I went to have about a 50% drop out rate between 6 to 12 grade, and almost no one except for a few other kids in my class really did anything with their education once graduated from HS. Even though I am white we were acutally the minority in school. I've worked differant jobs since I was 15 and my parents couldn't afford to put me through college. I was able to get a full ride through undergrad and have only taken out loans since I've been in grad school. My parents were wonderful but we lived cheap. I never had the advantages of a upper level classes in HS and didn't really have the best teachers in some subjects. I was able to push myself to where I got today. So yes, in some regards I do feel I was disadvantaged growing up compared to almost all kids that I know in Med school and grad school right now. But I did have a better life than friends of mine back in HS and know I wouldn't be here today without the family I have. So it's a tough call. What do some of you think?

 

[LizzyM]

You have to be careful that you don't come off sounding like someone trying to gain the sympathy of the adcom while merely annoying them.

If you were one of the few white kids in a school that was predominately minority and if your parents were well educated and employed such that you didn't need government entitlements and you managed to graduate h.s. and get into college with a full scholarship then it sounds like you did pretty well.

An example of economic disadvantage that leads to educational disadvantage is having to drop out of school every spring to help pick strawberries with your migrant worker family.

 

[gary5]

You can't be asian and disadvantaged. Asians are already overrepresented.

 

[LizzyM]

You can't be asian and disadvantaged. Asians are already overrepresented.

That a medical school applicant could be so lacking in the ability to think logically astounds and worries me.

 

[sirdude]

You have to be careful that you don't come off sounding like someone trying to gain the sympathy of the adcom while merely annoying them.

If you were one of the few white kids in a school that was predominately minority and if your parents were well educated and employed such that you didn't need government entitlements and you managed to graduate h.s. and get into college with a full scholarship then it sounds like you did pretty well.

An example of economic disadvantage that leads to educational disadvantage is having to drop out of school every spring to help pick strawberries with your migrant worker family.

Yeah that was kinda thick. I would never put something like that in my PS or anything. But no we were just a bit above the entitlement line for things like school lunch and such. And acutally the full ride for college was also affected by some fo the grants/scholarships taking into account financial insecurity.