Disadvantaged?

[drakkan2001]

Then who's fault is this? Is it AMCAS fault for not specifying exactly what "disadvantaged" means?

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[Peterock]

Then who's fault is this? Is it AMCAS fault for not specifying exactly what "disadvantaged" means?

I mean, they kind of do... but it's very vague and just gives a reference to socioeconomic background. You'd think people wouldn't be ******ed about this but... you know, people will do whatever it takes to make themselves stand out.

Like this one time.. I got a job during the school year and I had to work FIFTEEN HOURS A WEEK at some soft white collar job...
God, the suffering!

 

[akpete]

I am amazed by the complete lack of common sense!!

Hmmmm...I worked 35 hours a week during school, but 60-70 hours/week in the summer....am I disadvantaged? I dunno.

Oh, wait, I come from upper-middle class white America. F***. If only my parents had lost their jobs and beat me as a child.

Congratulations to all of you that have truly overcome things that most of us have never seen in our lifetimes.

Long John, you have a lot to learn about the world if you think you're disadvantaged. If you have to ask, then don't check the box. I forgot who it was that said this, but the key is background , not for a couple of years. I'm sure it was an adjustment from your prior lifestyle, but not a disadvantaged background. If it's that important to you, work it into your PS.

 

[japhy]

i am sorry long john but i can almost guarantee that if you choose to apply disadvantaged it will severely hurt your chances.

having to work during undergrad is nothing new. yes, it is a challenge that your parents lost their jobs.

however, there is not a consistent history of challenges and difficulties you had to overcome. working during undergrad is almost a requirement for many med schools to take you seriously.

 

[kinetic]

This thread makes me want to find a liberal and beat him/her (no sexism here, PC police!) relentlessly with a large club until his/her bleeding heart stops. The fact that I can't do so makes me the most disadvantaged amongst all of you. The hell? Used to be people strived to achieve more, not groveled to look more pathetic.

EVERYONE CHECK 'DISADVANTAGED'.

 

[ad infinitum]

I don't think the answer to the question "Am I disadvantaged?" is necessarily clear. Obviously, there are extremes that are easy to define. There are quite a few here that noone would doubt as disadvantaged. There are others, like myself, that I am not sure is so clear. I grew up with parental income below the poverty line because of disabilities, but had a house (single wide trailer) to live in because my grandparents were around to help on occasion. I never considered myself disadvantaged. I just thought we were normal, and those with money were "advantaged". I started work when I was 14 and always had to make decisions about other things based on how it impacted my work schedule. No, I did not have to dodge bullets or wonder where my parents were or what they were doing. I ended up going to an elite school where money was everywhere and most lived a life of privilege. I was able to go because some nice benefactor donated money for someone like me.

Looking back, I think part of the "disadvantage" is level of expectations. Some people are completely driven by their circumstances because they want to be the furthest from where they came from. Others, have a hard time getting past the circumstances. I kinda fit a third category, apathy. I didn't really feel like I deserved anything better than anyone else (i.e. people like me don't really experience the level of success that comes with being a doctor) but I had enough personal pride to not fail every class. Even though I took pre-med classes, I took the practical route. What is the best way for me to get a decent job after school? I also put my efforts into trying to find one of those "advantaged" girls to marry so my life would take a different direction.

So, all of that is to say it's not an easy decision to check the box. I feel like various parts of my circumstances hurt my grades. Does that make me a bad person? Does it mean that others had more to overcome? I would hope that an adcom looks at each individual application to see what an INDIVIDUAL had to deal with vs. what you had to deal with vs. someone else. I don't think the question is there in order for someone to wear a disadvantaged "tag", to build up some sort of expectation. I think it's there to gain some insight into what may have shaped a person.

 

[MoosePilot]

I think they are trying to provide some guidance within the section on the application.

What was your family income level, were you ever on assistance programs, how did you pay for school, was your area medically underserved?

Seems to me these questions give an idea of what they're looking for. I'm not upset about any stuff in my past, because overcoming obstacles is part of what makes me who I am. A hurdler who never got to jump hurdles is going to be more out of shape than someone who runs every day. I feel I learned how to deal with stress and adversity in childhood.

However, I can definitely see the advantages of not being disadvantaged. A lot of the guys in my MCAT class have docs for parents. I never understood how common this is until I met so many. If they want to shadow, they ask a family friend. If they need a prep course, they've got it. Those are benefits and I let med school know that I didn't have any that I didn't earn for myself. If they care, they have the info. If they don't, my app is strong without it, but I sure didn't want to not fill it out and then have them wondering why I mentioned some aspects of my background in my PS but didn't claim disadvantaged status.

It's definitely not something to fight about on here. If someone put it that isn't disadvantaged, it will probably hurt much more than it will help.

 

[Long_John]

I think they are trying to provide some guidance within the section on the application.

What was your family income level, were you ever on assistance programs, how did you pay for school, was your area medically underserved?

Seems to me these questions give an idea of what they're looking for. I'm not upset about any stuff in my past, because overcoming obstacles is part of what makes me who I am. A hurdler who never got to jump hurdles is going to be more out of shape than someone who runs every day. I feel I learned how to deal with stress and adversity in childhood.

.

True, those questions do help.
here's one you forgot to put
"Were you required to contribute to the overall family income (as opposed to working primarily for your own discretionary spending money)?"

For me the answer was yes, for two full years I add to contribute approximately 1/3 of my income to family.

Anyways, we'll decide this issue for sure tomorrow. I'm going to email the admissions office of 4 of my top choice schools (Stanford, UCLA, Einstein, Columbia) telling them my circumstances.
I will post results on this thread tomorrow so this issue will be decided once and for all.

 

[Peterock]

True, those questions do help.
here's one you forgot to put
"Were you required to contribute to the overall family income (as opposed to working primarily for your own discretionary spending money)?"

For me the answer was yes, for two full years I add to contribute approximately 1/3 of my income to family.

Anyways, we'll decide this issue for sure tomorrow. I'm going to email the admissions office of 4 of my top choice schools (Stanford, UCLA, Einstein, Columbia) telling them my circumstances.
I will post results on this thread tomorrow so this issue will be decided once and for all.

Yes. Go for it smart guy. I'm sure the medical schools will all promptly return your email one to two hours after you send them... . This issue is decided. You should apply disadvantaged b/c you have endured such hardships. I mean, you actually had to cope with the idea of your mommy and daddy not being able to keep up with the Jones's....

 

[calcrew14]

Is it a fact or a false assumption to think that Adcoms put both disadvantaged and non-disadvantaged applicants in the same pool? I tend to think that each applicant should be allowed to take only one shot by selling it in the ps or using it as a sweepstakes ticket in another pool.

 

[JohnHolmes]

Has anyone been saying they are disadvantaged on the application.
Both my parents were unemployed and at the same time while I was at college and I had to work to support myself and my family some. Would they consider me disadvantaged? Remember financially is one area where you can be disadvantaged.

Generally, if you have to stop, ask yourself the question that is the title of this post. Take a break, get online, make a post on the student doctor network, and wait for replies the answer is NO!!!!!!

You aren't disadvantaged. Plenty of people have been laid off. This is reserved for students who came from extreme poverty from early in life through adulthood, getting laid off from IBM during the tech crash of 1998-1999 doesn't count.

I am sure it sucked, and I do feel bad for your family and your condition. But please don't check that box on your application.

 

[synapse lapse]

Generally, if you have to stop, ask yourself the question that is the title of this post. Take a break, get online, make a post on the student doctor network, and wait for replies the answer is NO!!!!!!

You aren't disadvantaged. Plenty of people have been laid off. This is reserved for students who came from extreme poverty from early in life through adulthood, getting laid off from IBM during the tech crash of 1998-1999 doesn't count.

I am sure it sucked, and I do feel bad for your family and your condition. But please don't check that box on your application.

I agree. My dad is a cuban immigrant and we never had any money. I was on assistence programs, contributed to family income, and paid my own way through college, and numerous otehr circumstances. I will not apply disadvantaged. That should be reserved for people that truly had to endur extreme hardships, not someone who had middle to low income parents who could't support them completely. Leave this section to those who deserve it, and apply regular please.

 

[i61164]

I agree. My dad is a cuban immigrant and we never had any money. I was on assistence programs, contributed to family income, and paid my own way through college, and numerous otehr circumstances. I will not apply disadvantaged. That should be reserved for people that truly had to endur extreme hardships, not someone who had middle to low income parents who could't support them completely. Leave this section to those who deserve it, and apply regular please.

Ok. I can understand why people are slamming the OP. Relatively speaking, he did not have it that bad. However, why are so many people like Mr. Pink refusing to check the box even though they are clearly disadvantaged? I grew up on welfare, raised by a single mother with less than a high school education. We ate out of dumpsters. We lived in a homeless shelter briefly. Did I check the box? You're G*ddamn right I did!!! If you had a disadvantaged childhood and you don't check the box, you are cheating yourself. I have a very strong application without the disadvantaged status, but in a process this random, I'll take all the help I can get. You can refuse to check the box out of pride, but I think it's a mistake.

 

[jeantm]

i am not checking the box disadvantaged b/c i am afraid of risking the chance that someone may discriminate against be based on my disadvantaged status. I wouldn't want an adcom to see my father being incarcerated and my mother being deceased due to a drug overdose following years of homelessness as being a red flag against me (consider me being of a higher risk of dropping out, failing, etc b/c of them). i definitely think i have been disadvantaged and it annoys me not to be able to take some kaplan courses or have a place to go during holidays....but i don't want to be subjected to rejections based on my disadvantaged status (I have encountered many snobby professors over my college years and can imagine meeting some during interviews that would prefer a "prep school" candidate than someone they are bitter about paying taxes that supported then as a child (ie welfare).

i wish there was an easy answer to whether or not to check the box...i am most likely wrong but i am just apprehensive about discrmination. I am not even applying for the fee waiver b/c i am afraid of that being seen as a strick against me in the eyes of some...if anyone has a great argument against this i owuld be completely open to hearing it.

 

[uclabruin2003]

maybe i should have read this thread before submitting amcas but i believe that being disadvantaged is not having the same opptys as the majority of others who will be applying with the same pool.

speaking in terms of economics....the average person i believe who is applying to medical school is fairly affluent (i said average!!). if you are below the poverty line but think you didnt have it worse off...think again! you probably never had the opportunity to go to the best schools, get the best education. you didnt have the best support system. you didnt have the opportunity to take prep courses or what not.

 

[medic170]

maybe i should have read this thread before submitting amcas but i believe that being disadvantaged is not having the same opptys as the majority of others who will be applying with the same pool.

speaking in terms of economics....the average person i believe who is applying to medical school is fairly affluent (i said average!!). if you are below the poverty line but think you didnt have it worse off...think again! you probably never had the opportunity to go to the best schools, get the best education. you didnt have the best support system. you didnt have the opportunity to take prep courses or what not.

I addressed those things in my PS and I thought it was enough. I want to get into med school because I deserve it, not because some affluent adcom member feels sorry for me.

 

[uclabruin2003]

i didnt say that the adcom should feel sorry for you. i would not want to get in if they just felt sorry for me. but i think that everything adds up. your mcat and gpa, and ECs and LORs....if those are great and you are also disadvantaged...then good for you. if you have low scores and no ECs....i dont think that just bc you are applying for disadvantaged you should get in....

 

[uclabruin2003]

chalkette: if you wrote about it in your PS...whats the diff in putting it in the disadvatanged part. and maybe im being naive but is it really that bad to put down as being disadvantaged? do they really look down on you that much...i guess it hurts you more than helps you?

anyone else know the answer to this question?

 

[nina512]

In my PS, I emphasized all the positive points of my application (volunteer, work experience, and grad school)

However, I did feel that I should let the adcoms know that I'm not your typical med school applicant because of my childhood circumstances. I questioned the ramifications of checking disadvantaged (ie, possible discrimination) but figured my experiences are part of who I am. I'm not going to hide the fact that I grew up in a neighborhood where half the people lived below the poverty line, half of the adults do not have HS degrees and only 4% of the adults in my community actually finished college. In fact, the city placed me in out-reach programs for disadvantaged children to purposely expose us to careers in science, and possibly help us set goals.

So no, I didn't do it for adcoms to feel sorry for me, but it was more like an FYI that I beat the statistics. My MCAT, research publications, and graduate degree speak for themselves regarding my preparedness for medical school.

For those of you who are obviously disadvantaged, and have over come numerous childhood circumstances that may have *stacked the deck* against you, why hide or pretend it didn't even happen? It's a part of who you are and something you should be proud of.

 

[SpiritiualDuck]

lazy is not a good enough reason not to write another essay. it's a short essay and this is the most important reason to do it: Many schools have a separate committee for disadvantaged applicants and if they don't they still might give you an extra look. It's always worth it. Don't make the mistake of dismissing the benefit of tell your story. We can pretend that we are here for each other, but you are competing for limited spots. Don't let laziness be an excuse to miss out on a chance to add somethign else to your application.

 

[i61164]

lazy is not a good enough reason not to write another essay. it's a short essay and this is the most important reason to do it: Many schools have a separate committee for disadvantaged applicants and if they don't they still might give you an extra look. It's always worth it. Don't make the mistake of dismissing the benefit of tell your story. We can pretend that we are here for each other, but you are competing for limited spots. Don't let laziness be an excuse to miss out on a chance to add somethign else to your application.

I couldn't agree more. If you are truely disadvantaged and beat the odds, this will look good to the ADCOM. Look in the MSAR. Many schools explicitly encourage disadvantaged students to apply. Maybe they feel that you are more likely to serve as a health care provider in low income areas. Whatever the reason, it will help you not hurt you.

 

[velo]

I find it hilarious that someone would tell someone else "you can't check that box!!" Who are you, the "broke-ass" police?

haha, well played kinetic

To the OP: doesn't sound to me like you're disadvantaged. It sounds like you're concerned that your hardships won't be considered by the adcom, but I just wanted to remind you that most, if not all, secondaries have some sort of optional essay where you "describe any particular obstacles or hardships you have overcome" or some such bull****...they at least have a place where you can add any "additional info you'd like the adcom to consider" or worst comes to work, the interviewer ussually asks "is there anything else you'd like me to tell the adcom?"

Bottomline: you have no shortage of oppertunities to make your situation known to teh adcom....checking the disadvataged box is not the appropriate forum to discuss your "hardships" though

 

[gaf]

This thread has evolved from "You're not disadvataged! You shouldn't say you are."

if you have to ask, you're probably not..

Just amazing what people will do for an edge....

To "Hey! You're disadvantaged! You better say so! "

lazy is not a good enough reason not to write another essay. .

 

[japhy]

gaf, nice try. too bad those quotes are not all in reference to the same poster.

 

[gaf]

but they are all from this thread...and chronological

 

[velo]

Gaf, what's your point? You present those qoutes as if it was all about the same person and topic. It wasn't. The intial qoutes were about someone that most people would challenge and the last qoute was directed to someone that was disadvantaged and said she was too lazy to write an essay.

You've made not logical point. Good try though.

I think he was just musing on how this thread has developed

He's not attacking anyone, why are you going after him?

 

[gaf]

Gaf, what's your point? You present those qoutes as if it was all about the same person and topic. It wasn't. The intial qoutes were about someone that most people would challenge and the last qoute was directed to someone that was disadvantaged and said she was too lazy to write an essay.

You've made not logical point. Good try though.

Just another sad case of humorous intent not making its way through an electronic medium. Even the "wink" icon failed to convey my sentiments. Tragic really.

Velocypedalist had it right. I had no intent to "expose" anyone as a "Disadvantage Cop" with overly narrow criteria. I read the the posts and shared my amusement with the 180 degree shift in the theme of this thread

To those who have wasted time searching for my logical point or whom I have otherwise offended, I apologize.

This thread has evolved from....

__________________

 

[synapse lapse]

i am not checking the box disadvantaged b/c i am afraid of risking the chance that someone may discriminate against be based on my disadvantaged status. I wouldn't want an adcom to see my father being incarcerated and my mother being deceased due to a drug overdose following years of homelessness as being a red flag against me (consider me being of a higher risk of dropping out, failing, etc b/c of them). i definitely think i have been disadvantaged and it annoys me not to be able to take some kaplan courses or have a place to go during holidays....but i don't want to be subjected to rejections based on my disadvantaged status (I have encountered many snobby professors over my college years and can imagine meeting some during interviews that would prefer a "prep school" candidate than someone they are bitter about paying taxes that supported then as a child (ie welfare).

i wish there was an easy answer to whether or not to check the box...i am most likely wrong but i am just apprehensive about discrmination. I am not even applying for the fee waiver b/c i am afraid of that being seen as a strick against me in the eyes of some...if anyone has a great argument against this i owuld be completely open to hearing it.

I think you should really check the box. My mother is also incarcerated, and that hasn't inhibited me at all (during undergrad apps). If you are really worried about them looking bad, atleast apply for FAP. I did so this year for the MCAT and was approved, and plan on applying again for it next year when I apply to med school. I probably won't check disadvantaged only because I am very lucky, have made it to a great school, and don't feel I have had it bad enough to warrent that (though I still have considered checking the box). But you should check it. It is a very tough decision, and one I will have to make next year. I too worry about any negative sides to checking it.