Discriminating against D.O's

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SuzyQ

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Hey, I was just wondering how many of you "M.D.'s to be" feel like D.O's arent as good of doctors as M.D.'s. I have heard mixed opinions about it
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Now that D.O.s have the same licensing privileges as M.D.s in all states, I don't think most intelligent people make that kind of claim anymore.
 
I agree with Laura. I do think their is still discrimination in research, but no, I don't think it is appropriate. DO's can be great docs. (I'm going allo)
 
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by oneironaut:
•I agree with Laura. I do think their is still discrimination in research, but no, I don't think it is appropriate. DO's can be great docs. (I'm going allo)•••••<img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

gosh oneiro...if I werent friends with u...I wouldnt' be putting u down.....DO's can be just as great as MDs, (ok I agree with u) but then u must follow it with, but I'm going to allo...wink wink....

apparently, it didnt make a difference for u...cuz u wouldn't be bragging about it.....med students are so vain.... :cool: <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> :rolleyes: :wink: :p :D
 
good catch watcha.

i worked in a rehab dept. the med director of the dept was a DO, he was just as arrogant as any MD. seems good enough for me! i hope to be god one day too. :)
 
im glad to hear that people do think of them as equals to M.D.s!!! ive talked to some very ignorant people who say D.O's areent even real doctors!
 
If you consider them equals, why not apply to both kinds of schools? If you have the capacity to do both, how many will choose to become an DO instead of a MD? People who want to be medical doctors but don't have the grade become osteopathic doctors if not that then dentists if not that then physician assistants and if that fails then chiropractors. This is true for most people. Of course we should treat everybody like equals, but you can't escape the fact that average GPAs for students pursuing the MD path are higher.
 
The original question had nothing to do with admission requirements. It had to do with whether or not DOs and MDs are equally good doctors.
Secondly, I don't think that whether a student applies to allopathic only or osteopathic and allopathic says anything about whether or not they believe the professions are 'equal'.
I applied to both DO and MD schools, and withdrew my applications from DO schools when I got the secondaries because, frankly, I didn't think I could meet the DO admission requirements, in regards to DO shadowing, DO recs, etc.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by brickmanli:
•If you consider them equals, why not apply to both kinds of schools? If you have the capacity to do both, how many will choose to become an DO instead of a MD? People who want to be medical doctors but don't have the grade become osteopathic doctors if not that then dentists if not that then physician assistants and if that fails then chiropractors. This is true for most people. Of course we should treat everybody like equals, but you can't escape the fact that average GPAs for students pursuing the MD path are higher.•••••I disagree with you. Those pursuing osteopathic medicine ususally go into it because they are interested in their philosophy dealing with "treating the person not the disease". Yes, some D.O. schools dont require such high MCATS but I really don't believe that D.O. schools are just schools so people can fall back onto something if allopathic schools don't accept them. Osteopathic schools are very good at weeding out those kind of people and those are are truely intrested in osteopathic medicine will be accepted.
 
BRICK, oh and by the way...my grade point average is a 3.9 and im applying to D.O.'schools. I believe this is well above the average for even M.D. schools
 
D.O.'s are heavily discriminated in obtaining residency positions. At most schools, positions will be filled by MD's before they consider DOs. My cousin was a DO (from PCOM) and had a hell of time finding a residency position at a medical instiution that granted MDs. She told me that DOs often get the scraps of the MDs. Specific residencies do exist for DO, but I don't know anything about their quality.

It takes a lot of extra effort and ability for a D.O. to convince a residency director that he/she is equally qualified to the others MDs, even though he/she already might be. It's a self perpetuating cycle I guess.. people think they're worse because they dont get the top tier residencies.. and they don't get those top tier residencies because they think they are worse.. kinda blows. se la vie.

Most DOs i know often discard the wholistic doctrine they are taught, and often practice in a similar fashion to those allos. Functionally, they can be identical and indistinguisable.

Education wise, youll be a great doc either way. Going allo keeps a lot more opportunities and doors open.

-Bill
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by brickmanli:
• People who want to be medical doctors but don't have the grade become osteopathic doctors if not that then dentists if not that then physician assistants and if that fails then chiropractors.•••••And, people who make sweeping generalizations like this often end up with their foot in their mouth. I applied to both MD and DO schools. After shadowing both MD's and DO's I was very impressed by the holistic approach to medicine the DO's practiced. I did not apply to DO schools because I questioned the quality of my application, but because the compassion and quality of the DO's I shadowed was so amazing. Defining DO schools as those that people with lower GPA's apply to is a doing a great disservice to the quality applicants, students, and faculty affiliated with the schools.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by SuzyQ:
•BRICK, oh and by the way...my grade point average is a 3.9 and im applying to D.O.'schools. I believe this is well above the average for even M.D. schools•••••Hey, Can I join the club? :) I have a 31R and a 3.76 and I'm applying to DO schools too. My mom is a DO and she is a GREAT Doctor... I hate DO bashing.
 
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I'm just telling you what I think about OD's. If you don't like it, you can post on your own board. Give me a statistic that shows the average GPAs of OD's are higher and I will retract my "sweeping generalization." The reason someone posted this idiotic message was to validate his/her lack of ambitions or aptitude for a MD degree. If you have a 3.9 and apply to OD schools, suit yourself, it means one less competitor against me.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by brickmanli:
•I'm just telling you what I think about OD's. If you don't like it, you can post on your own board. Give me a statistic that shows the average GPAs of OD's are higher and I will retract my "sweeping generalization." The reason someone posted this idiotic message was to validate his/her lack of ambitions or aptitude for a MD degree. If you have a 3.9 and apply to OD schools, suit yourself, it means one less competitor against me.•••••OD? Since when are we talking about optometrists? Dude, what do you have against eye-doctors?! Did one of them make you wear glasses in 3rd grade?

<img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

And since when are stats everything? I bet the next thing you're going to tell us is that African American doctors are inferior too... since they too have lower stats on average.

You really aren't too bright are you?
 
That's right, I'm so dumb that I'm gonna be a MD. You're so smart that you'll become an OD. Let's write each other in ten years and see how we fare, okay?
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by brickmanli:
•That's right, I'm so dumb that I'm gonna be a MD. You're so smart that you'll become an OD. Let's write each other in ten years and see how we fare, okay?•••••Why do you keep insisting that I want to be an eye doctor!?! I don't want to be an optemotrist damn it!
 
brickmanli

•••quote:••• ••••People who want to be medical doctors but don't have the grade become osteopathic doctors if not that then dentists if not that then physician assistants and if that fails then chiropractors. This is true for most people. Of course we should treat everybody like equals, but you can't escape the fact that average GPAs for students pursuing the MD path are higher.

What kind of Narrow minded view is that. there are some of us who are going to DO school, but have higher GPA's and MCAT averages than average GPA and MCAT of most allopathic schools. Just because a school is an allopathic school doesn't mean they are superior.
I can see you are some ignorant individual. In case you don't know, there are some dentist that were way smarter and had higher starts than their friends that made it to MD schools. Also some PA's could have easliy made it to Allopathic schools but maybe being a PA is all they wanted. You are one of the ignorant people who thinks MD's are god.
A friend of mine in college who was also a pre-med student applied to both DO (same one I was accepted) and MD programs, but he was denied acceptance at the DO school and was accepted at the MD school. Moreover, my stats were better than his. Now Mr. Smarty pants explain that.

For your information, the medical school (DO and MD) in the US with lowest GPA and MCAT averages is an Allopathic school. Now tell me all those students have better stats than all the Osteopathic students.

Next time you generalise issues, think about it first.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by brickmanli:
•That's right, I'm so dumb that I'm gonna be a MD. You're so smart that you'll become an OD. Let's write each other in ten years and see how we fare, okay?•••••osteopathic docs arent OD's....they are D.O.'s...geez o peetz...hehe <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
 
and don't get your panties all tied up just because you know you really don't know what you are talking about
 
It's very important that when a person speaks generally...their comments are taken generally. For some reason, on this board when a person makes a general comment about anything, everyone comes out of the woodwork with specifics that don't follow that generality. There are great doctors who come out of poor schools and poor doctors who come out of great schools. Those aberrations don't change any of the generalities of the poor and good schools. Combat general statements with general statements, not specifics. If you think D.O.'s OVERALL have better academic stats, more clinical experience, place into better residencies, have better board scores, do better clinical research, make better doctors, etc...then present the general stats on the population.
 
I have no doubt that many DOs are excellent physicians and, furthermore, agree that there IS widespread discrimination among those in health care that even know what a DO is -- in many states, they are exceedingly rare. . . Indeed, there are also many to whom the different philosophy is particularly well-suited and appropriate.

That being said, there is a definite difference in the numbers of those applying to MD programs vs. DO programs. While this is not to say that they're aren't excellent candidates going into DO programs, the reality (by %) is that these tend to be applicants whose numbers are not as strong as MD applicants. And if you're looking to get into a competitive residency (surgical or medical subspecialty), then you're going to have a very difficult time if you're a graduate of a DO program. . .
 
Where in the world are you people getting this information!?! If you don't site a source I'm going to assume that you're just pulling this stuff out of your a$$es.

When it comes to geting residencies... if you're good they will take you. I know of DO's at places like the Cleveland Clinic.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by relatively prime:
•Where in the world are you people getting this information!?! If you don't site a source I'm going to assume that you're just pulling this stuff out of your a$$es.

When it comes to geting residencies... if you're good they will take you. I know of DO's at places like the Cleveland Clinic.•••••Indeed, they may certainly match at CC, but not in the categories I mentioned. . .

Although I hate to cite US News for ANYTHING, the only osteopathic schools that make it onto their primary care lists have MCAT averages between 8.6-9.0 and GPAs that are &lt; 3.50.

I am absolutely not DO bashing at all, just relaying facts. . . and the residency information comes from a very close family friend who's the director of the orthopaedics residency program at UCLA/Harbor Medical Center. :)
 
This thread again??? A thread like this comes up every few months and nobody ever says anything different.
"Are D.O.s as good as M.D.s?"
First Reply: "Why yes, of course."
2nd Reply: " Why yes, of course, (cites practice rights)"
3rd Reply "Since I'm the only one who has ever seen the average MCAT and GPA, I better let these people know that D.O. student stats are lower"
4th Reply: (cites some allo schools with low stats)
5th Reply: (cites all DO school stats)
6th Reply (cites URM MD student stats)
7th-9th: Testimonials "I have a 4.0 and a 40 MCAT and /I/ applied to /only/ D.O. schools"
10th Reply: "Oh yeah, well don't come to me when your back hurts.."
11th Reply: (Cites some prominent D.O. they know who invented something spectacular, or lists D.O.s in competitive residencies)
Followed by bashing for being too general, then bashing for being too specific, and usually by now some person has said something ignorant like "All D.O.s eat paste and have IQs of 80" and the rest of the comments are directed that-a-way. I've been on this board for a couple application cycles now, and this thread never ends differently. In fact, I'm curious as to if anything said in a thread like this has ever made one iota of a difference to someone who does have a discriminatory opinion of D.O.s, the students, their schools, etc. I have to tell you, I am a D.O. student myself, and I don't feel the need to qualify my intelligence by telling you what my MD application status was, my GPA, my MCAT, etc. I don't give a rat's ass if anyone thinks I'm a worse or even a beter doctor when I'm a D.O. If someone doesn't think D.O.s are as good as M.D.s, then they can go see an M.D. There aren't enough of us to serve the whole population anyway, even if some Star Wars movie came out and the lead was a D.O. and he fought a mean battle, and now all of a sudden "D.O.s are COOL MAN!!", and EVERYONE wants to see a D.O. - whatever, so everyone doesn't have the opinion we want them to have - who cares! WE DO NOT NEED TO PROVE OURSELVES - we've already done that, by sticking around for 100 years - what other "alternative" medical profession has, after only 100 years, managed to gain practice rights equal to M.Ds? Not hydropaths, ecclectics, naturopaths, etc - it was us. They don't dole out practice rights like candy. So relax. You get to be a doctor - and you ARE equal, regardless of some opinions, because the law says so, and there are plenty of patients to go around. You want a competitive residency? Go get one!! As for those who think differently, let them.

One last point:

How many people here consider the following person to be smarter than you? How many think this person will be a better doctor?

3.6 GPA
31R MCAT
Volunteered at Boys & Girls Club all 4 years (coached basketball)
Did research on gene therapy in chickens
Worked 30 hours a week all 4 years in college
Majored in Microbiology with a minor in Spanish
Was an EMT in the local ER all 4 years of college.

Just curious...
 
well said Doc Oc!
 
Indeed, this thread again . . . and it looks like you took full advantage such that you could post your laundry list of all potential replies -- indeed, it looks like you thought of everything.

However, if you look closely, you'll see I never said ANYTHING about being a better doctor; I merely cited some average statistics and facts, none of which should be taken as a value judgment on the potential abilities of a physician, whether he or she is DO or MD. . .

Just my $0.02 :D
 
Wasn't replying to you in particular, or anyone really. I didn't even read the whole thread. My post was just my opinion on the whole topic, whipped up in a few minutes, after a very UN-careful skim. My end part was just my way of saying that nobody really knows who's smarter or who will be better doctors by looking at their apps - which was again just my opinion on stats, not directec towards any comments (couldn't have been, haven't read the thread!). I'll go read your post though, and maybe I'll understand why you took offense. Just keep in mind that I don't take offense to opinions that are different than mine, and I rarely target specific posters for that very reasons, even ones who think I eat paste :)
 
Fly,
Oh, I see, your post was the one right before mine (and one a couple back). I don't see what you said as "D.O. bashing" at all. It's true, discrimination does exist, and I'd be kidding myself if I said that D.O. are viewed by all as equal. Sure, it will probably be harder for me to match to a competitive residency, but I accept the challenge :cool:
 
This is a valid discussion and should be discussed whenever possible.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by WatchaMaCallit:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by oneironaut:
•I agree with Laura. I do think their is still discrimination in research, but no, I don't think it is appropriate. DO's can be great docs. (I'm going allo)•••••<img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

gosh oneiro...if I werent friends with u...I wouldnt' be putting u down.....DO's can be just as great as MDs, (ok I agree with u) but then u must follow it with, but I'm going to allo...wink wink....

apparently, it didnt make a difference for u...cuz u wouldn't be bragging about it.....med students are so vain.... :cool: <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> :rolleyes: :wink: :p :D •••••Cuz I wouldn't be bragging about it?? 'wink wink'??

Watcha, my only purpose of the post was to say 'DO' is great. I didn't say 'but I'm' and I didn't say anything remotely sarcastic to equate with 'wink wink'. I only meant, incidentally, I'm going Allo. Which I said because I didn't want ignorant ppl (of which there are certainly NONE in this community)(wink wink) ... I didn't want ignorant people to think 'Oh, he must be going DO'. It was only an after thought Watcha.

And you Oldman! sheesh guys. I WAS SUPPORTING DO's and not snidely either.

Oh, and I'm not vain yet ;-)
 
Start a poll, ask a question like "if you have a 34 MCAT and 3.9 GPA, what would you rather pursue?"

The results should be interesting. When veiled in anonymity, the silent majority will speak.
 
I asked a PD at Mayo about this (I'm an MD student), and he said it makes no difference if you are an MD or a DO when they evaluate for positions. He went on to say that he wants someone who fits in. If it's an MD fine, DO fine.
 
D.O.'S SUCK THE BIG ONE!!!!!!! WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE...I WAS AT A DEPARTMENT STORE YESTERDAY AND THE SALESLADY APPROACHED ME AND ASKED IF I NEEDED HELP, TO WHICH I REPLIED, "YES, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING IN AN EXTRA-MEDIUM" ...ALWAYS TRYING TO PUT A LITTLE SUNSHINE INTO YOUR LIVES,
ME
 
D.O.'S SUCK THE BIG ONE!!!!!!! WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE...I WAS AT A DEPARTMENT STORE YESTERDAY AND THE SALESLADY APPROACHED ME AND ASKED IF I NEEDED HELP, TO WHICH I REPLIED, "YES, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING IN AN EXTRA-MEDIUM" ...ALWAYS TRYING TO PUT A LITTLE SUNSHINE INTO YOUR LIVES,
ME
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by oneironaut:
•Dude, screw the majority.•••••Well said... :)
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by apocalypse3678:
•D.O.'S SUCK THE BIG ONE!!!!!!! WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE...I WAS AT A DEPARTMENT STORE YESTERDAY AND THE SALESLADY APPROACHED ME AND ASKED IF I NEEDED HELP, TO WHICH I REPLIED, "YES, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING IN AN EXTRA-MEDIUM" ...ALWAYS TRYING TO PUT A LITTLE SUNSHINE INTO YOUR LIVES,
ME•••••Thanks for adding to our discussion with this brilliantly thought out discourse!
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Doc Oc:
•Fly,
Oh, I see, your post was the one right before mine (and one a couple back). I don't see what you said as "D.O. bashing" at all. It's true, discrimination does exist, and I'd be kidding myself if I said that D.O. are viewed by all as equal. Sure, it will probably be harder for me to match to a competitive residency, but I accept the challenge :cool: •••••I wish you the BEST of luck in this endeavour and I admire your tenacity. . . :)
 
I?m not one who usually joins in these arguments, but I really feel that all those who focus on the academic statistics of MD versus DO schools are missing the point. First, the MCAT and GPA are not going to predict if you are gong to be a good physician or not. Second, DO schools look at extracurricular activities and life experience in admissions more then many MD schools. These factors are more important then grades in the end. Third, you learn from the same books at DO and MD schools, in fact DO students learn more then MD students in the pre-clinical years (OMT, etc.).
I personally applied to both MD and DO schools and was accepted to both. I chose to attend and MD school because it was much less expensive. My two best friends from under-grad chose to go the DO rout, even though they were accepted to allopathic schools as well.
Furthermore, from my experience working in the Emergency Department in a large University hospital I have seen that the was majority of DOs are as good or better then there MD counterparts. While working there I also saw no discrimination against the DOs from the other physicians or the patients, even though I live in an area where there are very few DOs.
In conclusion I would like to say that from my extensive research on the subject of residency placement I have found that as long as you do well on medical school (Allopathic or Osteopathic) you will get the residency you want. In the end both DOs and MDs are physicians!
 
I agree with the post right before this one. I think it's funny that the original question was about quality of doctors. But almost immediately, the discussion turned to med school entrance statistics, as though that predicts how good a doctor will be. Perhaps it's just that many of us who are pre med have been dealing with our own statistics and stat comparisons for so long through the application process that it is difficult to think outside that box.
 
For most of us this will even be a factor once we are in practice (MD or DO). I'll be more worried about the competency of the individual doctor I am working with. Having said that...discrimination does exist against both, ironically.
 
For most this won't be factor...not will..It's been a long day.
 
It's usually arrogant Pre-meds that do this MD/DO comparisms. When you get to the real world, MD's and DO's are equal. I know of a small town with only two doctors, a DO and an MD, but they work great together. None of them think any less of the other.
 
I just met a DO last week who happens to be a clinical faculty at an allopathic school. You Pre-Meds who think highly of your stats, you might as well start putting those stats in your pipes and smoke, cos in the real world, your patients wouldn't give a freaking damn if you had a 4.0 and 42 MCAT. All they care about is that, you don't rupture there Butt holes when you doing a prostate exam.
 
Really? In my experience the higher the floor the easier it is to build up momentum. They roll nicely.

TheProwler said:
Add 100 pounds for every floor of the apartment building without an elevator.
Click to expand...
 
I love DOs. The one I know is HOT! :love: Mmmmm. Yes, doctor!

Seriously though, I like the osteopathic school of thought and will most likely apply to some DO schools as well as MD ones. If I was only accepted at DO schools I would definitely not be crying.
 
Dr. Donkey said:
Really? In my experience the higher the floor the easier it is to build up momentum. They roll nicely.
Click to expand...
how did you double post this into a thread that's 3 years old?
 
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