Disillusioned With Medicine

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swallday1640

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In my third year, feel like I made a mistake going into medicine. When I was a premed, I was really starry eyed but the work and grind slowly wears you down. Anybody feeling this way during their 3rd and 4th year? Im starting to feel like every profession has the same kind of suck but dressed up in a different way (politics, unpleasant people, etc).

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In my third year, feel like I made a mistake going into medicine. When I was a premed, I was really starry eyed but the work and grind slowly wears you down. Anybody feeling this way during their 3rd and 4th year? Im starting to feel like every profession has the same kind of suck but dressed up in a different way (politics, unpleasant people, etc).
Absolutely, you are definitely not alone in feeling this way! My advice would be to keep an open mind during the rest of your clinical rotations, you never know what may surprise you and pique your interest.
 
In my third year, feel like I made a mistake going into medicine. When I was a premed, I was really starry eyed but the work and grind slowly wears you down. Anybody feeling this way during their 3rd and 4th year? Im starting to feel like every profession has the same kind of suck but dressed up in a different way (politics, unpleasant people, etc).

Very common man. I remember they addressed it back at orientation first year, saying that the clinical years are very efficient at beating the love of medicine out of you. Their advice, and also what I have heard, was that if you were here for the right reasons, it gets better.
 
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Very common man. I remember they addressed it back at orientation first year, saying that the clinical years are very efficient at beating the love of medicine out of you. Their advice, and also what I have heard, was that if you were here for the right reasons, it gets better.

That right reasons stuff is pretty bs
 
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That right reasons stuff is pretty bs

I think it's left intentionally broad so that you may fill in your reason lol. Money, Respect, Scientific interest; they all fit.

Edit: what doesn't fit is "My parents really want me to be a doctor"
 
That right reasons stuff is pretty bs
I've been told by many-a-resident that the right reasons line is correct, but the reasons that are right aren't what you'd think they are, nor are they the same for every person.
 
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I've been told by many-a-resident that the right reasons line is correct, but the reasons that are right aren't what you'd think they are, nor are they the same for every person.
That's another two layers of nebulousness.
 
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my favorite piece of advice I've heard this year on rotations- go into whatever you hate the least
 
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That's another two layers of nebulousness.
So, the reasons many people think of as the right reasons- altruism, a desire to help others, wanting to make a difference in people's lives, etc- are generally not the reasons that'll get you through. For the rare individual, that might be the case. But the reasons that'll keep you interested in your career forever- self-actualizing things like a desire to lead, an enjoyment of working with science on the day-to-day, enjoying being constantly busy at work- those sorts of traits will keep you at a place where you can enjoy what you do. If you value lifestyle over long, satisfying hours, you probably won't enjoy medicine. If you derive more from your personal life than you do from your work, you're probably going to hate it. If you want money or respect, they aren't things you'll find in any great quantity. And if you want to help people, you'll find there's more barriers to doing so than you'd ever imagined, and that it's hard enough to just keep where you're at and not move backwards with a lot of patients. This isn't a place for idealists. It isn't a place for the hopeful. This is a place for practical people and realists.

The trouble is, so many people go into medicine as idealists, and almost every single one of them is going to be completely crushed because this is simply not the damn place for it.

Of course, YMMV. This is very personality dependent. But practical people tend to do better in medicine, and there's a serious lack of applicants with practical aspirations.
 
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In my third year, feel like I made a mistake going into medicine. When I was a premed, I was really starry eyed but the work and grind slowly wears you down. Anybody feeling this way during their 3rd and 4th year? Im starting to feel like every profession has the same kind of suck but dressed up in a different way (politics, unpleasant people, etc).

Every profession DOES have some kind of suck. I challenge you to show me any profession where people can remain 'starry eyed' for decades. Life is just too messy for that.

So you won't save the world. Can you be happy with an interesting, challenging job that allows you to save a few?
 
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So, the reasons many people think of as the right reasons- altruism, a desire to help others, wanting to make a difference in people's lives, etc- are generally not the reasons that'll get you through. For the rare individual, that might be the case. But the reasons that'll keep you interested in your career forever- self-actualizing things like a desire to lead, an enjoyment of working with science on the day-to-day, enjoying being constantly busy at work- those sorts of traits will keep you at a place where you can enjoy what you do. If you value lifestyle over long, satisfying hours, you probably won't enjoy medicine. If you derive more from your personal life than you do from your work, you're probably going to hate it. If you want money or respect, they aren't things you'll find in any great quantity. And if you want to help people, you'll find there's more barriers to doing so than you'd ever imagined, and that it's hard enough to just keep where you're at and not move backwards with a lot of patients. This isn't a place for idealists. It isn't a place for the hopeful. This is a place for practical people and realists.

The trouble is, so many people go into medicine as idealists, and almost every single one of them is going to be completely crushed because this is simply not the damn place for it.

Of course, YMMV. This is very personality dependent. But practical people tend to do better in medicine, and there's a serious lack of applicants with practical aspirations.

I bet a lot of people profess to being idealists because the practical reasons don't sound as good in an interview
 
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If SDN is any indication, they're actually full-on delusional and have even tricked themselves.

I show up every day at 430am because I want to help people and I'm pretty sure that if 4 years of surgery residency hasn't beaten the delusion out of me, nothing well. I freely admit that I got lucky to find something that I lets me do what I want to do every day and pay me for it. But, frankly, I want to find more people like me for my interns next year because life is so much easier when you enjoy what you are doing.
 
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... But the reasons that'll keep you interested in your career forever- self-actualizing things like a desire to lead, an enjoyment of working with science on the day-to-day, enjoying being constantly busy at work- those sorts of traits will keep you at a place where you can enjoy what you do. If you value lifestyle over long, satisfying hours, you probably won't enjoy medicine. If you derive more from your personal life than you do from your work, you're probably going to hate it. If you want money or respect, they aren't things you'll find in any great quantity. And if you want to help people, you'll find there's more barriers to doing so than you'd ever imagined, and that it's hard enough to just keep where you're at and not move backwards with a lot of patients. This isn't a place for idealists. It isn't a place for the hopeful. This is a place for practical people and realists.

So true and so beautiful :nod:
 
In my third year, feel like I made a mistake going into medicine. When I was a premed, I was really starry eyed but the work and grind slowly wears you down. Anybody feeling this way during their 3rd and 4th year? Im starting to feel like every profession has the same kind of suck but dressed up in a different way (politics, unpleasant people, etc).

Yeah. But what else would you do? Serious question.

I'm not sure there is anything else I'd really rather do that is a "normal" kind of job - the fantasy and/or outlier type of jobs notwithstanding (I just can't imagine getting paid to play and review video games would be a bad gig, I just can't!) Maybe if I was a younger person the military or maybe the FBI or secret service??

It's not a bad job. It's really not. But you have to kind of leave your expectations at the door and find your positives from it all where you can. I still think it's a bit of a calling - at least it was for me - but I think smart, conscientious folks can punch this time clock all day long. Don't make it your life, make it your job. Cash checks. Enjoy your time off.
 
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If anyone is not in it to 'help people', they got to reconsider... I don't think money (job security) and/or prestige will carry anyone very far in that path--you will hate your life. Not worth it IMO.
 
If anyone is not in it to 'help people', they got to reconsider... I don't think money (job security) and/or prestige will carry anyone very far in that path--you will hate your life. Not worth it IMO.
You should desire to help people, sure. But having it as a primary motivator will no doubt leave you wrecked at the end of the day.
 
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Every profession DOES have some kind of suck. I challenge you to show me any profession where people can remain 'starry eyed' for decades. Life is just too messy for that.

Trophy husband seems like a profession without any suck. Can't be said about being a trophy wife though.
 
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Just for the heck of it, can someone define a trophy wife?
 
You should desire to help people, sure. But having it as a primary motivator will no doubt leave you wrecked at the end of the day.
I really don't see why 'helping people' should not be the primary motivator... I can't think of any other thing that is more fulfilling than that.
 
I really don't see why 'helping people' should not be the primary motivator... I can't think of any other thing that is more fulfilling than that.
Because most of the time you'll be doing a whole lot less helping people than you'd imagine. There'll be days where you help no one. There'll be days where you hurt people on accident. The real, honest to god, "I really helped that person" moments aren't exactly brimming from most specialties (aside from perhaps surgery).
 
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This was primary motivator to go into medicine (non-trad with an already high paying career prior to med school) and it didn't get my very far. You definitely need way more than this.

You should desire to help people, sure. But having it as a primary motivator will no doubt leave you wrecked at the end of the day.
 
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Because most of the time you'll be doing a whole lot less helping people than you'd imagine. There'll be days where you help no one. There'll be days where you hurt people on accident. The real, honest to god, "I really helped that person" moments aren't exactly brimming from most specialties (aside from perhaps surgery).
I find it's more about how you help people. Not just in curing/treating them, but making their lives a little bit better while you're caring for them. But some people think its only about the illness they treat and not what I said.
Whipple's aren't curative, but if you at least make them feel better post-op or help them get to through post-op recovery, it can go a long way.

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Because most of the time you'll be doing a whole lot less helping people than you'd imagine. There'll be days where you help no one. There'll be days where you hurt people on accident. The real, honest to god, "I really helped that person" moments aren't exactly brimming from most specialties (aside from perhaps surgery).
Fair enough! Psychiatry might also fit that bill.
 
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I show up every day at 430am because I want to help people and I'm pretty sure that if 4 years of surgery residency hasn't beaten the delusion out of me, nothing well. I freely admit that I got lucky to find something that I lets me do what I want to do every day and pay me for it. But, frankly, I want to find more people like me for my interns next year because life is so much easier when you enjoy what you are doing.

Frankly there are no "right reasons" why I'd ever get up at 4AM. So glad I'm not a surgeon.
 
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Just for the heck of it, can someone define a trophy wife?

Where it's your JOB to stay beautiful and young-looking and to always make your husband look amazing to outsiders.
 
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If anyone is not in it to 'help people', they got to reconsider... I don't think money (job security) and/or prestige will carry anyone very far in that path--you will hate your life. Not worth it IMO.

again, more of your naive nonsensical crap.

honestly I don't know if you're a giant troll or like a 25 yr old with the emotional development of a 12 year old
 
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again, more of your naive nonsensical crap.

honestly I don't know if you're a giant troll or like a 25 yr old with the emotional development of a 12 year old
that escalated quickly
 
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again, more of your naive nonsensical crap.

honestly I don't know if you're a giant troll or like a 25 yr old with the emotional development of a 12 year old
Harsh. I mean, I can be pretty brutal, but I try to do it to people that deserve it. W19s just a little on the feelsy side of things, nothing wrong with that. Maybe he'll learn, maybe he'll be okay, who knows.
 
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again, more of your naive nonsensical crap.

honestly I don't know if you're a giant troll or like a 25 yr old with the emotional development of a 12 year old
I guess that makes you a 25 year old with the emotional development of an 11 year old :whistle: :smuggrin:
 
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When an AA has a hot caucasian chick...;)
thats-racist.gif
 
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Yet again, another thread that needs to get exposed to pre-allo in order to wake some people up. Too many premeds are eager to tell med students and physicians how terrible they are for having attitudes about medicine other than unconditional altruism. I didn't even enter with that level of naive idealism, and it's amazing how different my attitude is now.
 
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Frankly there are no "right reasons" why I'd ever get up at 4AM. So glad I'm not a surgeon.
Well,
I was in the same boat until I did. But it makes so much sense. I like doing rounds without bull****. Get it done and over with. Then come back in the afternoon to double check.
I don't like waking up early for no reason or to waste my time. Surgery doesn't do that. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's me. Hence my dislike for medicine.
And it's funny because my family medicine rotation was similar to surgery. I was waking up at 4am to round on hospital patients (he was a hospitalist as well) and it was to the point. Then it was clinic. Then back to the hospital for afternoon rounds. I liked.
Maybe I was misguided by medicine, but I am not one who likes to wait and do nothing while I'm working.

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Well,
I was in the same boat until I did. But it makes so much sense. I like doing rounds without bull****. Get it done and over with. Then come back in the afternoon to double check.
I don't like waking up early for no reason or to waste my time. Surgery doesn't do that. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's me. Hence my dislike for medicine.
And it's funny because my family medicine rotation was similar to surgery. I was waking up at 4am to round on hospital patients (he was a hospitalist as well) and it was to the point. Then it was clinic. Then back to the hospital for afternoon rounds. I liked.
Maybe I was misguided by medicine, but I am not one who likes to wait and do nothing while I'm working.

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Oh believe me, Internal Med is like a giant case study in inefficiency. Absolute torture. It's disturbing when I think about my PG5 med school classmates who are still at the mercy of inefficient attendings as fellows for Cards or HemeOnc. Thankfully in Psychiatry the only major time sucks are the care coordination meetings.

As for the getting up early, I'm the type of person who could work an ER coverage shift of constant patients from 6PM to 2AM after a normal workday and not be phased by it. Yet, ask me to get to work at 7 instead of 8 for a department meeting and I'm slamming down espresso shots all afternoon to get through the day.
 
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I really don't see why 'helping people' should not be the primary motivator... I can't think of any other thing that is more fulfilling than that.

every single job out there is in some way "helping" someone or else it wouldn't be called a job.

the technician who maintains the electric grid helps you
the builder who built your house helped you
the farmer who grew your food helped you

i think the "helping people" you are thinking of is more like an unconditional will to save people's lives because you just love human beings so much (for some reason). A quality few people have.

if a doctor told me he became one for the $, that's good enough for me. You're delusional if you think all doctors are saints.
 
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every single job out there is in some way "helping" someone or else it wouldn't be called a job.

the technician who maintains the electric grid helps you
the builder who built your house helped you
the farmer who grew your food helped you
.

And the bill collector/collections agent who harasses me helps me how???
 
I think the people that have "helping people" in their top 2-3 motivations for medicine are the ones that burn out the quickest. If you have 10 patients, you can't help 3 because of financial/insurance BS & 2 because of administrative/policy/guideline/legal BS. Of the other half, you can't help 3 because of compliance BS. Of the last 2, you'll probably help 1 but the BS might come back, and the other just won't get better because the available treatment options are BS or the patient's genes are BS, or both.

Of the other motivations mentioned above, enjoying the daily tasks/science/technology is a good one for some, but like most daily occurrences, monotony kicks in eventually & the enjoyment level typically plateaus/declines. Lifestyle/life outside of work is also very influential, but this itself can be heavily influenced by factors independent of medicine - spouse/children/family, location, health, personality/psyche, ability to cope with stress, etc.

What I don't think was mentioned that will definitely play into choosing a specialty for me anyway is personality "fit" with your peers & coworkers in the field. It's fairly obvious that most specialties attract a specific type of person or small range of personalities. Same goes for practice setting - academic/community, urban/rural, small/large group, etc. Now matter how much you think you'll enjoy doing X procedures or Y patient interactions in Z practice setting, there will undoubtedly be BS that will blunt that enjoyment to a certain degree. But dealing with that BS on a daily basis is much more tolerable when you're around good people that keep you coming back for more vs. tackling it alone or worse, alongside people you can't stand.
 
Very common man. I remember they addressed it back at orientation first year, saying that the clinical years are very efficient at beating the love of medicine out of you. Their advice, and also what I have heard, was that if you were here for the right reasons, it gets better.

Disagree. The reason is what you need it to be. It can change. That's ok.
 
And the bill collector/collections agent who harasses me helps me how???

he is absolutely helping you.

He's helping his company collect debt, so it can pay its shareholders and creditors $, who can then go to you for medical services and then pay you.

See it works
 
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Disagree. The reason is what you need it to be. It can change. That's ok.

Which is basically what I left for interpretation in my next post but ok
 
he is absolutely helping you.

He's helping his company collect debt, so it can pay its shareholders and creditors $, who can then go to you for medical services and then pay you.

See it works

He isn't helping me personally. It would be better for me personally to keep my $. However, I get your original point that he is "helping someone" if you define "helping" as obtaining cash for an owner/shareholder.
 
I think the people that have "helping people" in their top 2-3 motivations for medicine are the ones that burn out the quickest. If you have 10 patients, you can't help 3 because of financial/insurance BS & 2 because of administrative/policy/guideline/legal BS. Of the other half, you can't help 3 because of compliance BS. Of the last 2, you'll probably help 1 but the BS might come back, and the other just won't get better because the available treatment options are BS or the patient's genes are BS, or both.

Seems to me that unrealistic expectations are more of an issue than having the wrong base motivation. Wanting to help people doesn't mean that I expect to spend my days as an attending sprinting from bed to bed running codes and saving the lives of countless people who would have died in the hands of a lesser physician. It means that while I acknowledge that there will be a lot of people I won't be able to help, I am driven by the desire to help those I can and to have a life-changing impact for a patient every once in a while. Helping people is a fine motivation as long as you have a realistic idea of how/to what extent you'll be able to do so.

Same applies to every field. If you become an architect because you think you'll be able to design landmark skyscrapers every day of your life, you'll be miserable when you find yourself spending most of your time working on zoning issues. If you become an architect because the chance to work on a handful of world-class projects over the course of a career is worth all the mundane crap, you'll probably be happy. It's the management of expectations, not the motivation itself that is at issue
 
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I think the people that have "helping people" in their top 2-3 motivations for medicine are the ones that burn out the quickest. If you have 10 patients, you can't help 3 because of financial/insurance BS & 2 because of administrative/policy/guideline/legal BS. Of the other half, you can't help 3 because of compliance BS. Of the last 2, you'll probably help 1 but the BS might come back, and the other just won't get better because the available treatment options are BS or the patient's genes are BS, or both.

Of the other motivations mentioned above, enjoying the daily tasks/science/technology is a good one for some, but like most daily occurrences, monotony kicks in eventually & the enjoyment level typically plateaus/declines. Lifestyle/life outside of work is also very influential, but this itself can be heavily influenced by factors independent of medicine - spouse/children/family, location, health, personality/psyche, ability to cope with stress, etc.

What I don't think was mentioned that will definitely play into choosing a specialty for me anyway is personality "fit" with your peers & coworkers in the field. It's fairly obvious that most specialties attract a specific type of person or small range of personalities. Same goes for practice setting - academic/community, urban/rural, small/large group, etc. Now matter how much you think you'll enjoy doing X procedures or Y patient interactions in Z practice setting, there will undoubtedly be BS that will blunt that enjoyment to a certain degree. But dealing with that BS on a daily basis is much more tolerable when you're around good people that keep you coming back for more vs. tackling it alone or worse, alongside people you can't stand.

#1 I can't remember the last patient that I couldn't treat exactly the way that I wanted to treat because of financial issues. Granted it helps to be in a specialty and area with an essentially single payer healthcare system, but 30%? I'd like to see some data on that before throwing around a huge number like that. I mean every once in a while some insurance won't let me put someone on Eliquis, but it isn't like we don't have other options.

#2 In 6 years of clinical medicine I've run into a fair bit of annoying administrative/policy issues. But, I've yet to see one that impacted my ability or another physician's ability to care for a patient effectively. Does it happen? I'm sure. But commonly? Kinda doubt it.

#3 Compliance is an issue. Does it diminish the effectiveness of your care? Yes, sometimes drastically. Are you still helping them, even if they aren't compliant? Yes.


Every single person that I know who burned out/quit/did something else should not have gone to medical school in the first place. They had unrealistic expectations of something. None of them went into medicine to "help people". They went into it for the money, the prestige, the job security, the "science", the "tech" etc. Is there a lot of bureaucratic nonsense in medicine? Absolutely, just like any other job. But, medicine offers unparalleled opportunity to make a direct impact on people's health and lives. It certainly doesn't have to be the only motivator, but if it isn't one of main ones, there is no reason to go into medicine.
 
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I really don't see why 'helping people' should not be the primary motivator... I can't think of any other thing that is more fulfilling than that.

Because most of the time you'll be doing a whole lot less helping people than you'd imagine. There'll be days where you help no one. There'll be days where you hurt people on accident. The real, honest to god, "I really helped that person" moments aren't exactly brimming from most specialties (aside from perhaps surgery).


Yes, and b/c the sad reality is that quite a number of people won't do what they should to help themselves or their children/families. People have to partner in the helping process. When they expect those in medicine and HC to wave a magic wand and make everything better, w/o being motivated themselves to do their part, it is beyond frustrating. I mean you still do what you can, but have to let go of the fantasy that all people are going to be on-board with doing what is within their locus of control or being compliant. And don't think for a minute non-compliance just rests with the lower SE classes of people on drugs.

Personally I think people go into HC and medicine, and they really don't realize how many people are further along on that spectrum between mentally/emotionally healthy and mentally/emotionally ill, which of course affects greatly other areas of health and wellness--either for them or for say a child within their care. And if you are not honest and relatively secure about where you and even your fellow HC colleagues and staff are, and given how politico-social systems are kind of far along on that spectrum, well, often enough, it becomes about the blind leading the blind.

Surgery is an area that I have frequently heard physicians working in it say that they genuinely feel like they have "fixed" something--or at least made it reasonably better. And the results of that work are often more tangible. Even then, they get their share of seriously noncompliant people. But at least they can feel often enough that they have done their part to help or "fix" something and can move on to the next person in need of tangible fixing.

And the process through which they learn to do this to me at least, by far, seems the most utterly grueling. But they go through it b/c they love it and have "done something" more tangible to help a person. At least they do what they can in that regard. When they cannot, they refer them to physicians for other, shall we saw, more nebulous approaches.

Surgery is hands down awesome; but I personally feel like, at least most of the time, one must be pretty young to start in it and make it through. I am sure there are some exceptions. It's just that I have stood on the sidelines as a CC recovery nurse for quite some time. I'd want to be no more than in my 20s to start down that arduous path. I have the utmost respect for it, but I am also realistic enough to know it's not for me at this point in my life.

So, lol, I have to accept the more nebulous realm of treating and helping people through medicine. But I certainly do not expect to be able to help everyone, and in fact, while I may try to help many, the extent of that help, according to the free will and autonomy of those people whom I attempt to help, has been and will probably continue to be limited.

You focus on doing your part--what you can. You try to influence them to do their part. You feel great about the ones that have worked together with you to get well or their children well or at least somehow better, and then you have to be satisfied that you have done your level best.

People get sick. People suffer. People die. You do what you can to the best of your ability. You will never be God. And even if you can "fix" something with them, does it actually "fix" the underlying patho? Sometimes yes. Quite a number of times, no. And the whole time you are dealing with random, endless number of people that are more in the yellow to orange to red range (see below) than the green--at least psychologically or emotionally.

 
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Having 'unrealistic expectations' is the norm. No one knows what a job or career or relationship will be like until they have experienced it. To say that people who drop out didn't have realistic expectations, or went into the field for the wrong reasons, is therefore not very helpful.

I would tell OP that the clinical years can be difficult, but it's a necessary learning experience. Consider every unpleasant rotation as a positive, in that you learned that you don't want to go into that specialty. A month or two of misery in surgery, for example, is a small price to pay for the knowledge that you could never have done that, so you will never have cause to envy a surgeon's salary.

Once you find a specialty that you like, and you're out in practice, it will be better. However, it will still be a job, and the alternative professions will still be jobs, too. All jobs suck. That's why they have to pay people to do them.
 
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