Dismissed from US med school, please help

[evilbooyaa]

Need for an extended leave of absence beyond one year necessitates withdrawal of the student from the
School of Medicine. Application for re-admission shall be to the Admissions Committee in its regular
process for consideration of applicants for medical school."

If this is directly from the horse's mouth, seems pretty cut and dry. OP's only option may be to apply for re-admission.

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[calvnandhobbs68]

Need for an extended leave of absence beyond one year necessitates withdrawal of the student from the
School of Medicine. Application for re-admission shall be to the Admissions Committee in its regular
process for consideration of applicants for medical school."

Well OP, looks like you're just f'd in the a.

Time to re-apply with all the pre-meds.

 

[Trogghunter]

It seems that the school was looking for a reason to boot this guy, and they definitely found it. And yes, you can be kicked out while being investigated for a crime...my school has done it >3 times in the past 3 years. This guy is from the south/Cali as a Muslim....you should know to be on your best behavior.

I'd reapply....yes its repeating 2 years but it'll be easier because you've been through it, and your loans won't go into repayment if you're still enrolled. You may even be able to get forgiveness for what you already owe if you can prove that you were wrongfully dismissed.

 

[DrBodacious]

Here is another thing for the OP to consider:

Lets say you are not able to regain admission to your medical school (or any US medical school). You probably have the Caribbean as an option. We all have an idea of how difficult and expensive that road is. Maybe the best thing is to play this off like you decided you wanted to quit medical school. I.e. you have a philisophical difference with modern medicine or something.

It seems like you had an excellent track record in undergrad. You might have a good prospect in another field of professional school or graduate school rather than playing the race/religion card and suing.

A major issue with suing (and a lawyer probably won't tell you this) is that if you win readmission there is going to be a high risk of stigma against you. No one likes someone who cries discrimination unless is is blatantly obvious. You might have some trouble getting what you want in the match/scramble. From what I have heard there is no real proof that your medical school has discriminated against you, but that is for you decide. Just be careful what you wish for. I suppose you could conceivably sue for your wasted tuition, and perhaps gain some extra monetary award to pay your legal expenses, etc., but I wouldn't count on the school giving up too easily. Be careful with lawyers, in the end they are representing themselves.

I am sure you realize this, but it is another big fork in the road for yourself, and it seems like maybe you have been your own worst enemy for much of this.

I will re-iterate I do sympathize with the wrongful detaining, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a terrorist or associated with terrorists. But, where you stand now there is no benefit in looking back. Your story is already out there and you have made your stand, don't fool yourself in to thinking you need to continue to fight for the cause of wrongful travel profiling. Look forward, for yourself.

 

[rodmichael82]

Here is another thing for the OP to consider:

Lets say you are not able to regain admission to your medical school (or any US medical school). You probably have the Caribbean as an option. We all have an idea of how difficult and expensive that road is.

I don't know man I'm scared about this guy going to the Caribbeans but I think it's his best bet or he could reach out to some DO schools.

 

[Koalafied]

I was recently dismissed from my medical school for not taking my boards on time. I took a year LOA from medical school after my second year because I was getting burned out. In my year off I decided to do some traveling to regain my motivation. Before I came back home, I started studying for the boards, but I had not signed up for them because the paper work would have been much easier once I was back in the US.

As I made plans to come back home about a month before the time I wanted to schedule my actual test, I did not expect to encounter the most traumatic ordeal of my life -- I was placed on the no-fly list trying to come back home. What made the ordeal even more horrible is that I was stopped from flying while in transit -- wouldnt have been as bad if I were in the country I was visiting since I would have been able to have a semi-normal life but just stuck abroad. I was stuck in the airport for about 5 days before being placed in a detention center (practically multi-person jail cell) for 10 more days. Needless to say I wasnt able to do any studying in there, and I was forgetting most of everything I was studying prior to this ordeal. When I finally got back home, my electronics (laptop, hard drives, cell phone) were seized by customs and border patrol, which made resuming my studying very difficult.

nonetheless, one of the first things I did when I got back was to contact my school to complete my registration for step 1 -- almost a week before the deadline they had set. The associate dean helped me in completing the schools portion of the registration and even mailed it in for me, 2 days before the schools deadline -- he was well aware of what had happened since my ordeal made front page of LA times and was even mentioned on some national tv stations. I thought this was a good sign that the school would give me an extension. I even had other classmates tell me that they saw my name added to the next semesters schedule which gave me hope. So I tried studying for my boards for a couple of weeks, waiting to hear back about changes in the deadline so I would know when to schedule the actual exam.

Instead of hearing back about new deadlines, I get a letter in the mail telling me that the school had decided that they were going to dismiss me from the school since I did not meet their deadlines. I was utterly crushed! I was still traumatized from my the no-fly list ordeal, and this just threw salt on the wounds. The letter from the school did not mention any appeals process, and every time I tried to contact my dean, he was surprisingly unavailable. I did not know what to do, but I continued to study for the boards, thinking if i am able to pass then maybe I might be able to pass the boards and have the school reconsider, or worst case scenario i could transfer elsewhere. But a week later, I get an email from the NBME saying that my test has been canceled since I was no longer enrolled in medical school. Now im feeling destroyed. First the bullsh*t of being on the no-fly list, then being kicked out of medical school. I never had any academic problems in school, and was looking forward to returning to normal life as a medical student, which was then taken away from me.

My student loans are about 110K and i have nothing to show for that, and since I have been out of school for over a year now, they are about to go into repayment. Im worried if i try to find full time work, i'll be giving up on my dreams of being a doctor.

I also have a twin brother who was a year behind me in med school (different school, in the Caribbean) and he is studying for his boards at the moment. I was hoping someone would have some positive stories/examples that I might be able to emulate to get myself back on track. I have recently emailed my brothers school, and i am waiting to hear back. I tried calling another caribbean school and they said they dont even consider students who were dismissed from any medical school, so now my hopes of getting back to school seem lost. please help me!

OP, ever consider ds? I heard it's easier. though.

 

[rodmichael82]

OP, ever consider ds? I heard it's easier. though.

HAHAHHA that thread cracked me up. All the pre-dents were being extremely defensive. I feel like he could have worded that a little better lol

 

[brooklynblunder]

this story is nuts

 

[514901]

- watch out future doctors. People like this will one day be your colleagues (i.e., a rudimentary understanding of things like ethics and law and chalk full of logical fallacies to boot).

Ha. I know you're trying to bait me into turning this into an anti-Muslim thing, but it isn't going to work. I could care less about his religion. My only point is the guy is showing questionable decision making that borders on outright idiocy (posting a mass email to everyone to let them know Islam is 'real')

I'd be willing to bet anything there's a significant backstory to this event that he isn't sharing with us.

And as others have mentioned once you take that leave of absence it's very difficult to get back on track. I know several med students who were diagnosed with mental illnesses while in med school and it's become an enormous battle for them to even make it through medical school now.

 

[remo84]

OP, ever consider ds? I heard it's easier. though.

ds? dental school? i imagine my dismissal in med school is going to cause the same issue in applying to dental school. does anyone know of any dismissed med students who go into dental school?

 

[fiveoh]

Ha. I know you're trying to bait me into turning this into an anti-Muslim thing, but it isn't going to work. I could care less about his religion. My only point is the guy is showing questionable decision making that borders on outright idiocy (posting a mass email to everyone to let them know Islam is 'real')

I'd be willing to bet anything there's a significant backstory to this event that he isn't sharing with us.

You'd be right. He has a pretty significant history of unprofessional behavior that has either escaped the administrators or has largely been ignored by them. Nonetheless, he is almost universally disliked by his peers. If you look through our school's interview thread (2011-2012), you will find comments from interviewees about a "weird guy" hiding out in the bathroom and talking sh** about his own school, telling all who dare enter with the purpose of relieving their bladders that they should not go to that school. You really can't make this stuff up.

I love this school. My experience here has been mostly positive, and this whiny kid comes on here with a sob story, possibly looking to take legal action against the only place that gave him a chance. Take another look at his reasons for the LOA. I guarantee he hasn't told you all everything. I haven't either, but it doesn't make much of a difference.

My opinion is that it's pretty messed up what happened with the no-fly list business, but granting you a LOA was doing you a favor. It's not the school's responsibility to make sure you get your sh** together. Go back to mommy for that.

 

[514901]

You'd be right. He has a pretty significant history of unprofessional behavior that has either escaped the administrators or has largely been ignored by them. Nonetheless, he is almost universally disliked by his peers. If you look through our school's interview thread (2011-2012), you will find comments from interviewees about a "weird guy" hiding out in the bathroom and talking sh** about his own school, telling all who dare enter with the purpose of relieving their bladders that they should not go to that school. You really can't make this stuff up.

I love this school. My experience here has been mostly positive, and this whiny kid comes on here with a sob story, possibly looking to take legal action against the only place that gave him a chance. Take another look at his reasons for the LOA. I guarantee he hasn't told you all everything. I haven't either, but it doesn't make much of a difference.

My opinion is that it's pretty messed up what happened with the no-fly list business, but granting you a LOA was doing you a favor. It's not the school's responsibility to make sure you get your sh** together. Go back to mommy for that.

Yeah I suspected this guy wasn't disclosing the full information. The no-fly list is pretty serious. Another guy mentioned being detained in Europe but everyone knows that European countries are shady at best (I am nearly certain he was detained in Greece) and that is a totally different scenario from that of what would arise to make the no-fly list. It would be the same way with ASIO here. And the other guy in here was claiming the group this guy was affiliated with was the equivalent of Jehovah's Witnesses---what a load of crap--the US govt knows about all these groups and for all we know the OP could still be undergoing monitoring...

 

[fiveoh]

I obviously don't know anything about either one of you and perhaps it's not my place to say this, but kicking a guy when he's already down leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I get that you're trying to give us your point of view as someone who knows him, but announcing publicly that he's universally disliked or "weird" just rubs me the wrong way. Those kinds of statements don't really add anything to the conversation and only serve to attack him when he's essentially defenseless.

I get what you're saying, and I don't blame you for feeling that way, especially if you don't have any idea who this guy is. I didn't call him weird. It was quoted from a previous poster in another thread, but I am calling him a huge POS. If there was any doubt, there isn't any now. He wasn't entirely defenseless until my second post (probably), and IMO, the attacks of character do add to the conversation because it affects his credibility.

My first post talked about his lack of judgment and my second post dealt with his professionalism, two things that are relevant to his situation. They were submitted in an aggressive tone because I don't like the guy. If I were to divulge further, then it wouldn't really add anything, which is why I said previously that it wouldn't matter if I posted more details.

 

[Koalafied]

ds? dental school? i imagine my dismissal in med school is going to cause the same issue in applying to dental school. does anyone know of any dismissed med students who go into dental school?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6281991#post6281991

 

[brooklynblunder]

kinda random but just to correct some posts

1. its not in California, I think the OP's med school is Texas
2. OP actually wasn't convicted guilty nor actually even charged with anything.

I don't really care either way, but it is fascinating

 

[Gither]

I obviously don't know anything about either one of you and perhaps it's not my place to say this, but kicking a guy when he's already down leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I get that you're trying to give us your point of view as someone who knows him, but announcing publicly that he's universally disliked or "weird" just rubs me the wrong way. Those kinds of statements don't really add anything to the conversation and only serve to attack him when he's essentially defenseless.

that's what she said x2

 

[yehhhboiii]

that's what she said x2

lol strong work

 

[Food]

Ha. I know you're trying to bait me into turning this into an anti-Muslim thing, but it isn't going to work. I could care less about his religion. My only point is the guy is showing questionable decision making that borders on outright idiocy (posting a mass email to everyone to let them know Islam is 'real')

I'd be willing to bet anything there's a significant backstory to this event that he isn't sharing with us.

And as others have mentioned once you take that leave of absence it's very difficult to get back on track. I know several med students who were diagnosed with mental illnesses while in med school and it's become an enormous battle for them to even make it through medical school now.

Not really - I just think that based on your posting history you have significant gaps in your ability to reason through abstract concepts. Anyway, that isn't really the point. Having a LOA due to a mental illness is totally different from a LOA for no reason like this guy did. I agree - his decision / behavior are incredibly impractical and he should have thought this through. It's a common trap a lot of devout Muslims fall into - become so dogmatic that they leave their common sense behind. I alluded to it in an earlier post.

 

[Food]

kinda random but just to correct some posts

1. its not in California, I think the OP's med school is Texas
2. OP actually wasn't convicted guilty nor actually even charged with anything.

I don't really care either way, but it is fascinating

He is from southern california. Google "medical student bangkok no fly list"

 

[paul411]

He is from southern california. Google "medical student bangkok no fly list"

But the med school is, in fact, in Texas.

 

[Thebestofus]

No need for name calling, man.

Well, you are an idiot though. Just because someone stops you at the airport and seizes your belongings it doesn't make it "pretty damning evidence."

I've read through this entire thread and your posts reek of unmitigated bigotry and intolerance and I find that to be "pretty damning evidence" of your stupidy. Kindly shut up.

OP, you've made some idiotic decisions but I do believe that the law is on your side. Lawyer up. And don't try and force Islam down other people's throats.

 

[Thebestofus]

.

I am in agreement with another poster in that, no matter how distasteful one might find Islam to be

The way you phrase that is as if most people find islam distasteful. Where do you live, middle of nowhere redneck alabama?

The world is huge, and I can promise you that most people find islam to be anything but distasteful. Perhaps you should learn the subtleties of professionalism before embarking on this little internet crusade.

 

[514901]

Well, you are an idiot though. Just because someone stops you at the airport and seizes your belongings it doesn't make it "pretty damning evidence."

I've read through this entire thread and your posts reek of unmitigated bigotry and intolerance and I find that to be "pretty damning evidence" of your stupidy. Kindly shut up.

OP, you've made some idiotic decisions but I do believe that the law is on your side. Lawyer up. And don't try and force Islam down other people's throats.

I'd like to know where you made that leap in logic to the determination that I am a bigot and intolerant.

You'd have to be delusional or an outright idiot to think this guy is a victim of a simple misunderstanding.

 

[Thebestofus]

I'd like to know where you made that leap in logic to the determination that I am a bigot and intolerant.

You'd have to be delusional or an outright idiot to think this guy is a victim of a simple misunderstanding.

The difference between you and I is that I won't pass judgement on this situation because I don't know the full story. You on the other hand are happy to claim that there MUST be something we don't know and therefore he MUST be guilty of something since they searched him.

Also, telling someone to go back to their country and peoples instead of standing up for their rights is intolerant, and downright insulting. You can pretend to be politically correct all you want ("I don't care about his religion at all") but I and anyone who has half a brain knows exactly what you are.

 

[514901]

The difference between you and I is that I won't pass judgement on this situation because I don't know the full story. You on the other hand are happy to claim that there MUST be something we don't know and therefore he MUST be guilty of something since they searched him.

Also, telling someone to go back to their country and peoples instead of standing up for their rights is intolerant, and downright insulting. You can pretend to be politically correct all you want ("I don't care about his religion at all") but I and anyone who has half a brain knows exactly what you are.

There's another student at his school who has been revealing details about this guy.

And medical schools are VERY cautious when making dismissal decisions--you would have to commit a very serious offense to be kicked out. Bottom line. If he had any grounds to contest the decision he would have--the fact no bleeding heart liberal bodies like the ACLU have come running to his defense makes it even more obvious the he committed a serious offense.

Maybe it's different in America because everyone is forced to be politically correct but all I was saying was simply that if he lives elsewhere he won't have to deal with American intrusions on civil liberty. Simple as that. It seems like you are in fact the one here who is ignorant and religion-race baiting on a matter that has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being a *****.

 

[fancymylotus]

The way you phrase that is as if most people find islam distasteful. Where do you live, middle of nowhere redneck alabama?

The world is huge, and I can promise you that most people find islam to be anything but distasteful. Perhaps you should learn the subtleties of professionalism before embarking on this little internet crusade.

Seriously? Are you just looking to pick a stupid fight? I don't think he was at all trying to make it seem like the world finds Islam distasteful.

 

[Conjuctiva]

link to the LA times article?

 

[514901]

link to the LA times article?

This is the best one I have found on it:
http://rolandnikles.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/my-first-twitter-adventure-no-fly-list.html


News, Reviews & Views

Tuesday, July 2, 2013
My First Twitter Adventure: the No Fly List

Last week I joined Twitter. Oh boy! So far I’m following a go-slow strategy—don’t follow many people, try for quality. I hear it’s a medium for jokes, but I’ve not run into any yet.

As last week was a big Supreme Court week, I started with Adam Liptak, the New York Times legal reporter. He linked to some Atlantic articles and I started following The Atlantic. Finally, I added the young superstar Washington Post columnist, blogger, and twitterer Ezra Klein.

Klein follows 646 people. How does he manage? He wonders also. He says the time-suck/benefit ratio can get out of whack.

So here is tonight’s thread in and out of Twitter. Klein follows Kevin Drum, a writer for Mother Jones. On June 29, 2013 Drum had a piece about the No Fly List, and how U.S. citizen Rehan Motiwala suffered abuse because he landed on that list. The point of the article is to shed light on the lack of due process surrounding the No Fly List.

Rehan Motiwala, was born in Anaheim to Pakistani parents. He was a stellar student and graduated magna cum laude from UC Irvine with a degree in neurology. He enrolled in medical school at Texas Tech University in Lubbock. According to a Los Angeles Times article, after two years he began to lose interest and he traveled to Karachi where he joined with Tablighi Jamaat, a conservative Muslim missionary movement based in South Asia. Tablighi Jamaat is widely seen as peaceful and apolitical, but John Walker Lindh (convicted for aiding the Taliban against U.S. interests in Afghanistan) and some of the London subway bombers had connections with it. Motiwala went on a proselytizing mission to Indonesia, adopted traditional garb, and grew a long beard so he looks like Anwar Al-Awlaki. Then he tried to come home.

In Bankok airport airline officials refused to grant him a boarding pass. They would not tell him why. He wandered the airport for four days and slept on benches waiting for U.S. officials to arrive. When he refused to speak with them without a lawyer present, he was handed over to Thai officials and placed in a squalid and crowded holding cell at the airport for 10 days. "Do what you want with him," they said. Finally, after intervention by a Muslim American organization, he was allowed to board a flight for LAX. Upon landing in Los Angeles he was detained for another three hours of questioning. I don’t imagine anyone apologized.

What to make of this?

Motiwala’s story raises enough red flags; he seems like someone who should be watched. We think we’ve seen this movie before. And there was clearly some very close watching going on. Somehow between enrolling in medical school and traveling to Pakistan, and adopting traditional garb, he came to the attention of the U.S. authorities and he was placed on the No Fly list. Since he was able to travel to Pakistan, it seems he was placed on the No Fly list only after he left the country. How was this connection made? Did the NSA intercept his communications back home? Based on the Snowden revelations, that seems likely.

Here’s a creepy thing. If you google Rehan Motiwala, on the first page of hits is a You Tube video by Gilad Atzmon “a proud self-hating Jew” elaborating his conspiracy theories on Jewish identity politics and how Israel and AIPAC are the “biggest threat to world peace.” Right under the video it says “Rehan Motiwala liked 1 year ago.”

Be careful what you click on … you might land on a No Fly list.

This story, of course, nicely captures both the benefits and risks of all this electronic snooping our government is doing. On the one hand, it allowed them to take note of this young man, who should be watched because he seems to fit a pattern we think we’ve observed. On the other hand, the Tsarnaev brothers didn’t grow beards or don traditional garb. When someone performs missionary work with a conservative Muslim organization and adopts traditional garb, our prejudices are bound to lead us to be tremendously over inclusive in our profiling.

Surely Kevin Drum is right. Whatever we do about all this snooping business, we had better insist on lots of due process. And we should err on being accommodating and not more intrusive than necessary.

The TSA may offer a lesson. For a while, they made us feel like criminals even though their over-inclusiveness approximates 100%. They’ve learned to be friendly because their job depends on it. The No Fly list inconveniences fewer people and it’s a lot less over-inclusive. Yet, the list contains more than 10,000 people and is certainly way over inclusive. For example, Laura Poitras (one of the reporters who broke the Snowden leak) claims she is on the list. So that list better come with lots of due process protections attached. And the accommodations should be in an airport Hilton at government expense, not in a flea infested holding cell. And our government officials should bloody well show respect, or lose their jobs. Tweet that!






Posted by Roland Nikles at 12:05 AM
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1 comment:

DonJuly 2, 2013 at 6:29 PM

I agree. Our company supplies hotels, maybe even the Hilton. Citizens detained because of what we perceive as a threat, should be accorded dignity and respect.
Unless they are guilty and then, they must be punished.
Twitter is too much for me. I can't stand the rejection.
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Followers

 

[gunner1]

i guess it makes more sense now

 

[Umyo]

How did you even pass the Verbal reasoning section of the mcat? You seem to be ESL.

Lol

 

[brooklynblunder]

link to the LA times article?

here's the actual LA times article (or any article)

http://cached.newslookup.com/cached.php?ref_id=49&siteid=2040&id=2374031&t=1372443991

 

[Southplains]

And medical schools are VERY cautious when making dismissal decisions--you would have to commit a very serious offense to be kicked out. Bottom line.

I agree it is no small deal to kick a student out of your school, but I disagree that he must have committed something very serious to be kicked out that we don't know about, like you're implying. I think he did not meet their deadline and they (happily?) took that as more than enough reason to remove the student from their program.

The facts are the school granted him the LOA he requested, on the grounds he meet a deadline for Step 1. He did not meet this deadline, and as clearly stated in their student handbook, this means they have every right to remove him from the program and force him to reapply if he wishes to continue. What motivated their desires to "throw the book at him" is up for debate, but it doesn't seem like anything the school needs to worry about what happened.