Dissected bodies displayed as art in London (with links to photos)

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That was all over the US a few yrs ago. Awesome technique.
 
http://www.bodyworlds.com/en/exhibitions/current_exhibitions.html

Saw it in Houston a couple years ago. Amazing.

Not surprisingly, when it was first planning to come to the U.S., many of the museums were concerned people would be offended or appalled at seeing the cadavers. Once these museums realized the exhibits were open 24 hrs a day just to accommodate the traffic, they changed their tune.
 
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I saw it here in the midwest last year, right after we did anatomy. It was really cool and I thought it was very tasteful. One of the coolest displays they had was a guy who was holding his skin like a coat. When I was at the exhibit nobody was appalled or grossed out, though there is probably some self selection going on. The bodies really look like Netter's paintings, far more than the cadavers we actually worked.
 
Planktonmd said:
Am I the only one who finds this disgusting?
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Must be. 😉

Really though, I saw "The Bodies" exhibition a couple years ago when it came through Atlanta. The detail is absolutely incredible. I kinda wondered about it being gross, but it was very well done. The technology as well as techniques involved was very impressive. There were a LOT of kids there, none of them screaming or grossed out. My teenage son was absolutely fascinated.
 
yep, saw it in NYC a few yrs ago. i couldn't believe the line to get in.
 
I'm surprised that someone who has dissected a human body before would find Body Worlds disgusting. I can understand not agreeing that it's "art", or maybe that it's not worthy of the attention its gotten, but I think it was done respectfully enough and with enough awe for the spectacularity of the human body to avoid the label of disgusting.
 
I saw it in Houston as an MS2 and I was in awe of the painstaking dissections. As an MS1 I was always bad at dissections in anatomy lab.

I would hardly call it disgusting.
 
dfk said:
yep, saw it in NYC a few yrs ago. i couldn't believe the line to get in.
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"Bodies...The Exhibition" is what was in NYC a few years ago. "Body Worlds" is what the article is about. I've only seen "Body Worlds" so I can't comment on the differences in the exhibits themselves but Bodies has been controversial because it uses bodies that may (do?) come from Chinese prisons. I think the distinction between the two exhibits is lost on most people.
 
Taurus said:
Isn't anyone curious as to the origins of these bodies?

ABC News also did a report about this last year I believe.

It's appalling that any city would allow these exhibits to continue.
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As the story suggested, he has a rather long line of donors. I would venture to guess 95% or more of his cadavers were donated with explicit consent to be a part of this exhibit.

If there were a few from China, I would be more suspect of the Chinese officials. If you've been following their progress this year, or are at all familiar with their history, it's not a surprise they might skim a few laws to make a buck.

At this point, I think the more important story is one of compensation. These folks are donating their bodies for education, yet there is a long line of people making good money on the exhibits. It would be nice if the families of the deceased could get a nibble, like burial costs. Maybe they do; I really don't know.
 
My understanding is that Body Worlds is currently legit in terms of using only bodies from consenting donors.

"Bodies..." is all from China - executed prisoners or other "unclaimed bodies" that did not consent. I think it's really messed up and I'm surprised there isn't more of an uproar.
 
Gimlet said:
I'm surprised that someone who has dissected a human body before would find Body Worlds disgusting. I can understand not agreeing that it's "art", or maybe that it's not worthy of the attention its gotten, but I think it was done respectfully enough and with enough awe for the spectacularity of the human body to avoid the label of disgusting.
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What's disgusting is using dead humans as a method to make money, and mutilating these dead humans for nothing but the dramatic effect on the idiots who pay money to see them.
This is not art, It is a mixture of horrible taste and mental illness.
 
Planktonmd said:
What's disgusting is using dead humans as a method to make money, and mutilating these dead humans for nothing but the dramatic effect on the idiots who pay money to see them.
This is not art, It is a mixture of horrible taste and mental illness.
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Count me as an idiot who went to marvel at the amazing structure of the human form, and artistry involved in preserving these structures in remarkable and thought-provoking poses. What were your thoughts when you saw the exhibit? You went, right?

I'm quite surprised you passed medical school without accessing anatomy atlases, because, you know, Netter is like Hitler.

I prefer Body Worlds to a room full of stuffed and posed animal carcasses. If we're going to kill and exploit, it might as well be our own.
 
I'm another idiot who saw Body Worlds and thought it was spectacular. My personal favorite was the horse and rider. I heard several people make comments about how seeing the exhibit allowed them to understand their own health better. Specially, one woman said (paraphrasing): "I remember before Fred died he had such a hard time breathing and the doctors said it was because his heart was too big, and I never understood that, but now I see how his heart must have been pressing on his lungs and they didn't have enough room, so it was hard to breathe."
 
Planktonmd said:
What's disgusting is using dead humans as a method to make money, and mutilating these dead humans for nothing but the dramatic effect on the idiots who pay money to see them.
This is not art, It is a mixture of horrible taste and mental illness.
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i loved it.

call me a tasteless idiot. you won't be the first or the last to do so :laugh:


i have to add that i saw it with a "lay person" who knows nothing about the human body short of what she reads on wikipedia when she gets a cramp or fever. it was fun to see her marvel at the human body. personally i think we have bigger fish to fry fighting disgusting practices that use LIVE humans to make money, but i won't climb on my soapbox today, not on teh internets anyway...
 
No one disputes that the displays are spectacular.

The question is did these people consent to have their bodies displayed like this? How many people would consent to let their bodies be freely displayed and let somebody else make millions off of it without any of it going to your beneficiaries? If I recall, one of these shows has brought in more than $100 million to the owner. That's serious money.

I'm not convinced that the people who are on display have either consented or understood what they were agreeing to when they supposedly "donated" their bodies.

Anyways, it doesn't matter what I think. I know that many countries and cities across the world are cracking down on these shows for the same concerns. Enjoy the shows while you still can.
 
Planktonmd said:
What's disgusting is using dead humans as a method to make money, and mutilating these dead humans for nothing but the dramatic effect on the idiots who pay money to see them.
This is not art, It is a mixture of horrible taste and mental illness.
Click to expand...

this is a really bizarre quote. "mental illness?"
 
Taurus said:
No one disputes that the displays are spectacular.

The question is did these people consent to have their bodies displayed like this? How many people would consent to let their bodies be freely displayed and let somebody else make millions off of it without any of it going to your beneficiaries? If I recall, one of these shows has brought in more than $100 million to the owner. That's serious money.

I'm not convinced that the people who are on display have either consented or understood what they were agreeing to when they supposedly "donated" their bodies.

Anyways, it doesn't matter what I think. I know that many countries and cities across the world are cracking down on these shows for the same concerns. Enjoy the shows while you still can.
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oh for christ's sakes enough with everyone trying to make a buck. the guy came up with the idea and deserves the benefits. I don't see why someone is entitled to money simply because they died.
 
radslooking said:
this is a really bizarre quote. "mental illness?"
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What would you use to describe a physician that dedicated his life to mutilating dead bodies and enjoys transforming human remains into art projects?
It's a mixture of greed and madness.
The only difference between this guy and Hannibal Lecter is that Hannibal Lecter did not make money from his mental illness.
 
Planktonmd said:
What would you use to describe a physician that dedicated his life to mutilating dead bodies and enjoys transforming human remains into art projects?
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why, a genius of course, just like dr. henry frankenstein.
 
radslooking said:
oh for christ's sakes enough with everyone trying to make a buck. the guy came up with the idea and deserves the benefits. I don't see why someone is entitled to money simply because they died.
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I have an idea - I will use your corpse in my traveling cadaver show after you die. Thanks!

It's my idea so there will be no compensation. As you don't seem to care about consent for these things, I will not be seeking it from you. 🙂
 
Taurus said:
No one disputes that the displays are spectacular.

The question is did these people consent to have their bodies displayed like this? How many people would consent to let their bodies be freely displayed and let somebody else make millions off of it without any of it going to your beneficiaries? If I recall, one of these shows has brought in more than $100 million to the owner. That's serious money.

I'm not convinced that the people who are on display have either consented or understood what they were agreeing to when they supposedly "donated" their bodies.

Anyways, it doesn't matter what I think. I know that many countries and cities across the world are cracking down on these shows for the same concerns. Enjoy the shows while you still can.
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Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean hundreds others aren't interested.

I see two themes here:
1) The displays are appalling, no one could possibly agree to that.
2) The donors should reap more of the profits.

As for #1, I personally don't see how the process is any different than pumping the body full of preservative, applying clothes and makeup, displaying the lifeless corpse in a ceremony attended by dozens, then sealing it into a casket and burying it underground, marked with a stone.

For #2, who should get the money? It's of no benefit to the deceased. The family of the deceased relinquished nothing. Explain to me how my father's corpse should be traded for money in MY pocket?

You seriously "know" many countries are cracking down on this? Do you have references? These shows began over a decade ago, and if anything they are expanding. Their donor roster has grown to 8000, most of which have clearly come after these people have visited the exhibition.

As someone who used to obtain consent for donation, I can offer the following. The families I spoke to knew exactly what the purpose of donation was. I should expect the same level of sincerity for the process in Germany, but as I mentioned before, this may not hold true in all countries. Anytime someone donates something, there is a profit made by someone else. Transplant surgeons profit from the procedure. Drug companies profit. Hospitals profit. Tissue banks profit from processing and distributing the tissues (next time you see the Gatorade commercial with the two old dudes, recognize that one of them founded one of the largest tissue banks in America.) If you have a beef with profits made from donation of cadavers, you can take it up with the organ and tissue donation process in this country as well. They are just as culpable, though maybe not to the same degree.

As a final point, I'd rather have my body delicately processed to create educational art than hacked by a foursome of jackass med students. I'd happily do either before I paid someone $5k to bury my lifeless corpse in the dirt and mark it with a stone that compels my family to visit once a year.
 
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Bertelman said:
You seriously "know" many countries are cracking down on this? Do you have references?
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I quote from Wikipedia's article on Body World. I doubt that this list is comprehensive.

Czech Republic

The Czech Senate passed a law to address illegal trading in human tissue and ban "advertising of donation of human cells and tissues for money or similar advantages".

Various legislation is proposed in the U.S. - most proposals concentrate on the issues of sale of human remains, and the consent of the donors.

California, United States

California's proposed bill AB1519 (Ma), sponsored by Assemblywoman Fiona Ma,[16] would "require exhibitors to get a county permit; to do so, they would have to prove to county health officials that the people whose cadavers were on display — or their next of kin — had consented."

Assembly Bill 1519 would make California the first state to prohibit the commercial profit and public display of human bodies or remains, unless exhibitors provide documented informed consent of the deceased or next-of-kin.

Florida, United States

The state of Florida prohibits the sale or purchase of human remains and "Authorizes certain science centers located in this state to transport plastinated bodies into, within, or out of this state and exhibit such bodies for the purpose of public education without the consent of this state's anatomical board if the science center notifies the board of any such transportation or exhibition, as well as the location and duration of any exhibition, at least 30 days before such transportation or exhibition."

New York, United States

In June 2008, New York became the first state to pass legislation regulating body exhibits. A bill that was sponsored by Senator Jim Alesi requires anyone showing an exhibit that uses real human bodies in New York museums to produce a permit detailing their origin.

Pennsylvania, United States

Representative Mike Fleck's proposed bill would require evidence of informed consent from the decedent or relatives of all humans whose remains are put on display.

Washington, United States

The state of Washington considered a bill that would "require written authorization to display human remains for a commercial purpose."​
 
Bertelman said:
For #2, who should get the money? It's of no benefit to the deceased. The family of the deceased relinquished nothing. Explain to me how my father's corpse should be traded for money in MY pocket?
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Hmmm...ever heard of royalties?

If an artists such as singers, writers, etc produce a body of work, their estate receives royalties every time the song is played on the radio, every time somebody buys that book. Elvis is dead, yet his estate generated $45 million in 2004. If somebody is going to make a buck off your work, in this case it is your own body, it is customary for your estate to receive a royalty from it.

The fact that every single one of these individuals "donate" their bodies so that somebody else can make a buck off of it without any of it going back to the family estates for perpetuity makes me very suspicious. It should also make you wonder as well.

I've heard that these bodies are not only from executed political prisoners. Some, or perhaps many of them, are people like you and me who are walking along a street and suddenly get kidnapped and killed so that the kidnappers can sell the bodies to these shows. ABC News did a show on this. China is infamous for abusing human rights. Did you notice how the bodies are from otherwise young, healthy people?

How would you like it if you saw your mother, brother, girlfriend dissected, preserved, and displayed like they were going to catch a football for perpetuity? If I thought that the people on display truly consented, I wouldn't have a problem with these shows.

In response to the claim that some shows have proof of consents, a quote from an article in a Pittsburgh newspaper from last year:

 
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I respect the work put into these exhibits and the creativity needed to pull it off.

However I would argue that it is a bit different than gross dissection because it is more centered around entertainment than education. The detail is amazing, but it comes off as a bit macabre. jmo.
 
coldweatherblue said:
I respect the work put into these exhibits and the creativity needed to pull it off.

However I would argue that it is a bit different than gross dissection because it is more centered around entertainment than education. The detail is amazing, but it comes off as a bit macabre. jmo.
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While I can't deny that entertainment is a big part of why these exhibits are displayed, I think education of the lay public is a very significant part of the project. Each exhibit has an informative placard that explains something amazing about the human body, or educates about the processes that made a certain specimen look the way it does (the display of cancerous lungs was shocking for the lay people around me when I went - it was accompanied by a huge plexiglass box to throw your cigarettes away in, which was half-full).

How 'bout we call it edjutainment? I don't think you can deny the educational value when busloads of schoolchildren are taking field trips to the exhibit every day. Hopefully some of them get turned onto medicine by the experience!

Also, as far as whether it's art (referring to Plank's posts above) - at least in my city, the display was exhibited at the museum of natural history, not the art museum. So regardless of the amount of creativity they put into the process, it's being billed as a scientific, not artistic, pursuit.
 
Taurus said:
I quote from Wikipedia's article on Body World. I doubt that this list is comprehensive.
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When you stated the cities were "cracking down", you implied the exhibit may be completely black-listed or banned in most countries. On the contrary, it seems many of the cities are doing this for the protection of the donor's interests, and in fact are just ensuring the exhibits are in compliance prior to allowing them into town. Specifically, Manchester requested and received such a license to hold the exhibit. Clearly England is comfortable with the donation and consent process.

It seems most of these laws were just reactions to public fears, which although good-meaning, are most likely unfounded (unless you happen to live in China), and probably perpetuated by internet rumors and forwarded emails. Either way, I see the laws as a way to assuage public fears while still allowing the exhibits to occur. If you have found a law which prohibits the display of these bodies, I'd be more interested.
 
Taurus said:
Hmmm...ever heard of royalties?

If an artists such as singers, writers, etc produce a body of work, their estate receives royalties every time the song is played on the radio, every time somebody buys that book. Elvis is dead, yet his estate generated $45 million in 2004. If somebody is going to make a buck off your work, in this case it is your own body, it is customary for your estate to receive a royalty from it.
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Hmmmm...yes I have heard of royalties. I am also familiar with how they work, which you cannot claim, smart-ass.

The principle difference between my dead grandmother and Elvis's music legacy is that his music was making money while he was alive. No one sent my grandmother a check each day for merely existing. Furthermore, Elvis's current royalties are culled from his music (or its license) as he left it when he died. When my grandmother dies, no one will be lining up to pay money without the expert hands of a dissector to create a piece worth viewing.


Read flynn's comments above. I think you are confusing the Body Worlds exhibit with Bodies...The Exhibition. You shouldn't condemn one exhibit because another may have issues with consent. When Jack-in-the-Box sold burgers with 0157:H7, people weren't condemning McDonald's.

I'd be very interested in some substantiation that MANY of these bodies were pulled off the streets and killed for submission. It's actually funny that you mention this, because offering compensation for bodies, as you suggest, would probably only provide further motivation for such things, if they do indeed exist. By eliminating any monetary transaction, you remove the impetus to kill someone and present their body for compensation.

Yes, I did see young bodies in this exhibit. I can't say they were healthy, though. I wish you well with your optic diagnostic skills. You would probably make more money at a carnival than in medicine. "Step right up, I'll tell you your illnesses with a simple glance." I've worked in a hospital long enough to see many young people die. I've seen a 17-yr old girl go from a healthy basketball player to dead from Wilson's disease in a few weeks. Tell me, would you see her copper deposits through the plastination? Would you know her Dx if her liver wasn't displayed? If it was?

Again, I went to Body Worlds, and I trust that these people consented to be displayed as they were. I say that because, as I mentioned, the longer these exhibits travel, the more donors sign up for the exhibit. That tells me somewhere, someone wants to do it.

This is all coming from a person who doesn't much care what happens to his flesh after he dies, only that it doesn't become a burden for someone else. When I die, everything my body stands for dies with me. I can't take it with me, I can't come back and retrieve it, so it might as well be used for some other task.
 
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