My question is pretty simple and straight forward, I've read pretty much every military forum, but no one has asked is it possible to do DMO and FS? Thanks in advance.
DMO and FS?
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Question needs some clarification. Do you mean simply going to both schools or actually serving in a role where both are your primary job? If the latter, concurrently or sequentially? And do you mean DMO or UMO?
The Army has people who have been through both the FS and DMO course but they are doing so simply to be qualified to do the appropriate physicals/clearances for the special operations community. I imagine the other branches have similar people.
The Army has people who have been through both the FS and DMO course but they are doing so simply to be qualified to do the appropriate physicals/clearances for the special operations community. I imagine the other branches have similar people.
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Assuming you mean a Navy Undersea Medical Officer, yes it is possible to do both. (There is a CDR Family Practice trained ex-SEAL currently serving that has done exactly this) How likely that is these days I'm not sure, but I would wager that you would have to at least complete one full tour as a UMO or FS before being allowed orders to go train as the other. I know the current operational medicine detailer has been strongly pushing folks towards residency after one or two tours, because if you don't have much time after residency as an attending under your belt before you get your first O-5 look, it's highly probable you would get passed over, so this may limit their willingness to let you go down this path.
Thank you for the incite. I don't know much about the military, or the acronyms, but I'm pursuing a Navy career. I am leaning towards Navy simply due to family tradition and just wanted to know if it was possible to become qualified in both specialties. I'm really looking for the most physically and mentally challenging programs the Navy has to offer. Any suggestions?
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Not medicine.
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Respectfully disagree...hyperbaric and hypobaric environments are absolutely medicine. They do not warrent separate "residencies" ala RAM but no board certification appropriately covers both of them and additional training is needed to screen SMs. I hate having to tell guys no go but when they are having to run multiple resuscitations per day with the rare death at CDQC on the candidates that make the cut...the guys that don't not only are putting themselves at risk but the guys on the team.
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What is the timeline for attending either flight/dive school assuming I do the FAP program? Are most FM physicians straight out of residency forced to do a utilization tour in their field prior to attending dive/flight school? What's the likelihood of attending one of those schools directly after residency?
Sorry for the barrage of questions, thanks in advance!!
Sorry for the barrage of questions, thanks in advance!!
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You will likely only be able to do one of those schools if you are an operational physician. Your unit's requirements will drive whether they will pay for you to go (ie if you are a flight surgeon for an aviation unit you will need to go the flight surgeon course / special forces surgeon need flight surgeon with either R&T, DMO or CDQC recommended).
The timeline for going to them would be enroute to unit or shortly after you arrive, depending of the schedule of the course.
Most FM physicians do not go to a unit that needs for them to be a flight surgeon or dive doc. In fact most FM providers go to a clinical environment not an operational one. If you are coming in via FAP you should talk to the FM consultant so that they can slot you into one of the operational slots. Likelihood of going to the school is directly dependant on what kind of unit you go to.
Just to be clear, you get minimal flight time time and do not get flight training at the Army Flight Surgeon course. You do get Dive Training at the DMO course (technically the MEDO course now) including hard hat engineer diving but will not do much of that after you go to your unit. The flight surgeon course is 6 weeks and the DMO course is a little over 4 months (that is why most people go to R&T instead, only 18 days) There seem to be a lot of misperceptions about both courses...let me know if you have any further questions.
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DMO course is 9 weeks. Do you mean the UMO pipeline is 4 months?
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Great post, thank you for the information!
I'm interested in all the potential USN DMO positions (sub tender/EOD/Seals) so as long as I get to attend dive school i'd be happy! Hopefully the needs of the Navy cater to my interest in going straight to dive school and then an operational billet right after I graduate residency. I didn't know how common it was for FAP physicians to get operational billets right after residency so that information helps a lot. Thank you again for the insight
I'm interested in all the potential USN DMO positions (sub tender/EOD/Seals) so as long as I get to attend dive school i'd be happy! Hopefully the needs of the Navy cater to my interest in going straight to dive school and then an operational billet right after I graduate residency. I didn't know how common it was for FAP physicians to get operational billets right after residency so that information helps a lot. Thank you again for the insight
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Navy.
By going through FAP, I will obviously be able to forgo a GMO tour. Was just unsure if the Navy was open to sending physicians straight out of residency off to schools (flight/dive) before having a utilization tour under their belt
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Yes, you can go straight to flight or dive out of residency. A friend of mine, who is a PGY3 right now, is going straight to flight. Also, I spoke with the detailer for flight just a few months ago and she said that it is fairly easy to go straight into flight or dive from residency. I don't see how it would be much of a difference coming from FAP. Also, I have seen several folks who are both flight and dive qualified. There is nothing that would prevent you from staying operational, however it may be tougher to make O-6 later down the road if you only stay operational. Let me know if you want the detailer's contact info.
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I've been searching for info like this for a while, thank you a bunch. I would love that contact information if I can, I'd be interested to know if heading off to dive school would be something I could square away prior to signing the dotted line for FAP. Feel free to PM me if you can, I REALLY appreciate your help!
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This really isn't accurate. Your SL would have to be willing to lose you and you would have to apply to the GMESB. It's more likely you will have to do a utilization tour and then apply for flight or dive (but not both). Ask your SL.
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medicalbrah, in more than a decade at a large MTF, I never met a physician who had gone to dive school directly from FAP. That doesn't mean its impossible but the only way it happens is if it happens to solve a problem for the leadership. . The two people who would control your fate are the FP specialty leader (called a consultant by the Army and AF and abbreviated SL) and the detailer.
Ask them whether they will commit to supporting your JSGMESB application for UMO training if you sign on the line for FAP. See what they promise you. I'd send an email to both of them with your recruiter cc'd. That might pressure them to give you what you want. A quick google search got me their contact info:
http://www.usafp.org/news/navy-family-medicine-consultant/
You'd also be at the mercy of a dive physical. If you are only joining to be a UMO, you'd be wise to make sure that you will qualify medically because there is no backing out.
Oh, and Cooper, how do you know when a detailer is lying?
Ask them whether they will commit to supporting your JSGMESB application for UMO training if you sign on the line for FAP. See what they promise you. I'd send an email to both of them with your recruiter cc'd. That might pressure them to give you what you want. A quick google search got me their contact info:
http://www.usafp.org/news/navy-family-medicine-consultant/
You'd also be at the mercy of a dive physical. If you are only joining to be a UMO, you'd be wise to make sure that you will qualify medically because there is no backing out.
Oh, and Cooper, how do you know when a detailer is lying?
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Thank you all for the help! I will definitely do that, I appreciate it.
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Something else to consider is NOT taking FAP. If you take FAP then you will owe the Navy and you will have less control. If you finish residency first and then sign up you can do so on the condition that you are heading to flight or dive.
