Do any DO students match derm?

[ComputerGuy365]

I've been looking at loads of match lists from the top DO schools (MSUCOM, LECOM etc.) And I have yet to find one person who has matched derm. Is matching derm really that hard?

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[deleted407021]

A student at PCOM matched into a milmed program, this year.

 

[Mad Jack]

Given that only DOs can match AOA derm positions, at least a couple dozen do.

 

[DrEnderW]

There are not that many AOA derm residencies is why:

http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm

I have essentially zero knowledge/interest regarding derm, but the general consensus is that a portion of those programs are questionable, at best.

The chance of matching ACGME Derm as a DO applicant is extremely limited. I also wouldn't just look at "top" DO schools because the weight of the name of any DO school is essentially zero. Matching AOA Derm is way more about personal success and strong networking.

 

[allantois]

There are a bunch of DO derms in my area thanks to a few AOA residencies nearby. The real concern is that the number of those positions will shrink and the rest will become open for MD students come 2020.

Also, you will not find derm matches due to the nature of matching as they tend to take a year off for research to increase their odds of matching.

 

[cliquesh]

5 DOs matched Acgme derm in 2015. Interestingly, 1 DO, who I think is the first ever, matched acgme integrated plastic surgery this year, too. http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2015_final.pdf

49 AOA dermatology spots were available in 2015 https://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2015prgstats.html. You match AOA dermatology as an intern; not as a medical student. Consequently, you will not see AOA dermatology matches on schools' match lists. However, some (or all?) of these AOA spots may not exist by the time you match.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

5 DOs matched Acgme derm in 2015. Interestingly, 1 DO, who I think is the first ever, matched acgme integrated plastic surgery this year, too. http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2015_final.pdf

49 AOA dermatology spots were available in 2015 https://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2015prgstats.html. You match AOA dermatology as an intern; not as a medical student. Consequently, you will not see AOA dermatology matches on schools' match lists. However, some (or all?) of these AOA spots may not exist by the time you match.

Those who matched ACGME Derm/Vascular Sx/ Integrated Plastic/ Ortho/ ENT/ and Thoracic Sx had serious ballz skipping the AOA match. Good for them.

 

[Gandyy]

Surprisingly enough, TOP DO schools actually have some pretty good match lists. KCUMB, Touro CA, Touro NY just to name a few.

 

[JGimpel]

I've been looking at loads of match lists from the top DO schools (MSUCOM, LECOM etc.) And I have yet to find one person who has matched derm. Is matching derm really that hard?

It is rare for an MD to match into Derm, so I will suggest that you don't plan on being a dermatologist as a DO and be pleasantly surprised if you are the unique snowflake among thousands of med students/interns that don't.

Anyone disagreeing can dig through the records and come up with the number of DOs that matriculate into a Dermatology program per year for the last 5 years to show us it's truly a different story.

 

[zero0]

Surprisingly enough, TOP DO schools actually have some pretty good match lists. KCUMB, PCOM, CCOM just to name a few.

FTFY

I haven't seen anything impressive coming out of Touro-CA, just mostly primary care, and I haven't even looked at NY. Western on the other hand... And ATSU-SOMA (ACGME neurosurgery and ortho), LECOM-B, and Nova (plastics and ACGME neurosurgery this year) have some ballin match lists.

Edit: Nvm Touro-NY, props for that ACGME derm match and rad onc as well, adding them to my app lol

 

[ComputerGuy365]

I never wanted derm. Why is it so popular? Is it the short hours?

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

I never wanted derm. Why is it so popular? Is it the short hours?

You are never on call. You work 5 days a week from 9-5, and you go on vacation every 2 months, if you desire. You're always going to have patients. You also get to party on the weekends if you wanted to.

Oh, the pay is about $500k annually (Quoted from my ER doctor)

 

[Gandyy]

You are never on call. You work 5 days a week from 9-5, and you go on vacation every 2 months, if you desire. You're always going to have patients. You also get to party on the weekends if you wanted to.

Oh, the pay is about $500k annually (Quoted from my ER doctor)

Yea but that does not seem as interesting as surgery still.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Yea but that does not seem as interesting as surgery still.

You will be on call though. If you're cool with that, then more power to you. Personally, I would hate being interrupted from a dead sleep.

I'm leaning towards Derm because I suffered from severe acne in high school and early college. I prefers to have my weekends off so I can on the dance floor.

 

[xBODOMx]

.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

From a business standpoint, I don't know that there are any specialties better than Derm. Hopefully your skin is clear now. I have never met a Dermatologist who had anything less than flawless skin (along with a fantastic fashion sense and perfect teeth).

My skin is 100x better now with a few scars. Im literally a brand new person lol. I found out by trial and error that my acne was hormonal induced. Thanks!

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I know a student from KCU matched plastics at University of Kansas in 2011
http://www.kcumb.edu/uploadedFiles/Content/Academics/_Assets/2011MatchSpecialtyStateSite.pdf

But A) from what I have heard, all three of the programs in KC (KU, KCU, UMKC) have really good relationships, so this is unique among a lot of DO schools. From looking through the match lists over the past couple years it seems like there is very little, if not any, discrimination from the MD institutions nearby for KCU grads.

B) I am sure that graduate was a total stud and had incredible credentials to match that well.

C) As awesome as I think it is, its still sad that it has been like 4 years since another student has performed this feat. I mean, KCU has matched like 8 or 9 grads into their gen surg program over the past 3 or 4 years, which is still awesome. But, man would it be sweet to start seeing more DOs jumping into ACGME Ortho and ENT spots and stuff.

 

[Goro]

Might have been my students!

Those who matched ACGME Derm/Vascular Sx/ Integrated Plastic/ Ortho/ ENT/ and Thoracic Sx had serious ballz skipping the AOA match. Good for them.

 

[tom10]

I know a student from KCU matched plastics at University of Kansas in 2011
http://www.kcumb.edu/uploadedFiles/Content/Academics/_Assets/2011MatchSpecialtyStateSite.pdf

But A) from what I have heard, all three of the programs in KC (KU, KCU, UMKC) have really good relationships, so this is unique among a lot of DO schools. From looking through the match lists over the past couple years it seems like there is very little, if not any, discrimination from the MD institutions nearby for KCU grads.

B) I am sure that graduate was a total stud and had incredible credentials to match that well.

C) As awesome as I think it is, its still sad that it has been like 4 years since another student has performed this feat. I mean, KCU has matched like 8 or 9 grads into their gen surg program over the past 3 or 4 years, which is still awesome. But, man would it be sweet to start seeing more DOs jumping into ACGME Ortho and ENT spots and stuff.

As a recent KCU grad, I can agree with most of this. Mizzou also apparently loves KCU, 5 of the 22 IM interns were from there. One of my classmates matched KU derm this year as well. There will always be some preference for MD in my opinion, but it seems at KU, UMKC and Mizzou, it is about as close to equal as you're going to get.

 

[Mad Jack]

It is rare for an MD to match into Derm, so I will suggest that you don't plan on being a dermatologist as a DO and be pleasantly surprised if you are the unique snowflake among thousands of med students/interns that don't.

Anyone disagreeing can dig through the records and come up with the number of DOs that matriculate into a Dermatology program per year for the last 5 years to show us it's truly a different story.

Even with AOA residencies, less than 1% of DOs ultimately end up practicing dermatology.

 

[tom10]

Even with AOA residencies, less than 1% of DOs ultimately end up practicing dermatology.

Yeah. I gotta say if your dream is to be a dermatologist and you're applying DO, you may want to reconsider and just focus on MD.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yeah. I gotta say if your dream is to be a dermatologist and you're applying DO, you may want to reconsider and just focus on MD.

You're far better served putting in an extra year into getting into an MD school than putting in three or four into fellowships for possibly no result.

 

[Gandyy]

You're far better served putting in an extra year into getting into an MD school than putting in three or four into fellowships for possibly no result.

I mean even if you DO somehow get into a MD school, your classmates arent just going to LET you get to the top of the class. Everyone is gunner in med school for the most part.

Some of the most tryhard people you will ever meet in this life. Even for MD's you have to absolutely kill everything to get derm which is why it makes it so crazy to see

DO grads get a Derm residency.

 

[Mad Jack]

I mean even if you DO somehow get into a MD school, your classmates arent just going to LET you get to the top of the class. Everyone is gunner in med school for the most part.

Some of the most tryhard people you will ever meet in this life. Even for MD's you have to absolutely kill everything to get derm which is why it makes it so crazy to see

DO grads get a Derm residency.

My point is, if you're going for competitive specialties, you should be deferring, because a middle-of-the-pack MD applicant can land a competitive specialty position more easily than a top of their class DO student. That's just life.

 

[Gandyy]

My point is, if you're going for competitive specialties, you should be deferring, because a middle-of-the-pack MD applicant can land a competitive specialty position more easily than a top of their class DO student. That's just life.

Truth. I dont know how deferring a year for DO just to try for an MD cycle looks though?

 

[Gandyy]

Might have been my students!

I wish I knew which school you were at Goro. I have an idea, but thats all.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I mean even if you DO somehow get into a MD school, your classmates arent just going to LET you get to the top of the class. Everyone is gunner in med school for the most part.

Some of the most tryhard people you will ever meet in this life. Even for MD's you have to absolutely kill everything to get derm which is why it makes it so crazy to see

DO grads get a Derm residency.

356 MDs (1.97% of all USMD seniors) matched Derm this year. 49 DOs (0.892% of all DO seniors) matched either AOA or ACGME Derm. Being an MD gives you more than twice the likelihood of matching Derm than being a DO. Math doesn't lie.

 

[Goro]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to reject you!

I wish I knew which school you were at Goro. I have an idea, but thats all.

 

[Gandyy]

356 MDs (1.97% of all USMD seniors) matched Derm this year. 49 DOs (0.892% of all DO seniors) matched either AOA or ACGME Derm. Being an MD gives you more than twice the likelihood of matching Derm than being a DO. Math doesn't lie.

I dont think I implied that you dont get matched more in a derm residency as a MD. I just dont like it when people think its a cakewalk to match derm as an MD because they EARN it.


Edit: I am not claiming that anyone in this thread has the above mindset. Its just that some people do. That is all.

 

[Gandyy]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to reject you!

aww ok lets just leave it at that then haha

 

[Goro]

2% of all grads also shows that just because you have an MD, doesn't mean one can blithely waltz into that program.

Also, 2x the likelihood may not be significant when we're dealing with numbers this small.

356 MDs (1.97% of all USMD seniors) matched Derm this year. 49 DOs (0.892% of all DO seniors) matched either AOA or ACGME Derm. Being an MD gives you more than twice the likelihood of matching Derm than being a DO. Math doesn't lie.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

I wish I knew which school you were at Goro. I have an idea, but thats all.

My money is on ATSU-SOMA or ATSU-Kirksville.

@Goro

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I dont think I implied that you dont get matched more in a derm residency as a MD. I just dont like it when people think its a cakewalk to match derm as an MD because they EARN it.

Nothing is a cakewalk. However, you need to realize that it's much easier for MDs, who attend schools with the necessary affiliations and infrastructure, to "earn it" than it is for us, DOs.

 

[Gandyy]

My money is on ATSU-SOMA or ATSU-Kirksville.

@Goro

haha i was thinking kcumb or kirksville

 

[Gandyy]

Nothing is a cakewalk. However, you need to realize that it's much easier for MDs, who attend schools with the necessary affiliations and infrastructure, to "earn it" than it is for us, DOs.

Hmm, I smell a bit of bitterness in that statement. I would not say 2% compared to 1% is MUCH easier. Goro's post above says it all.

 

[GUH]

Hmm, I smell a bit of bitterness in that statement. I would not say 2% compared to 1% is MUCH easier. Goro's post above says it all.

It's doubling the odds.

But Goro may be right about the lack of statistical significance depending on the distribution and sample size.
Also, not all DOs who end up in Dermatology match into Derm straight out of 4th year.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Excellent! I'm glad it worked out for you. Really hard to get a handle on acne, as I'm learning now with one of my kids.

THANKS! Hopefully, it would be a short phase for your kid.

Yeah. I gotta say if your dream is to be a dermatologist and you're applying DO, you may want to reconsider and just focus on MD.

ehhhhhh, I mean I do like Family Practice & Emergency Medicine.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

haha i was thinking kcumb or kirksville

You are on the money with Kirksville

 

[Gandyy]

It's doubling the odds.

But Goro may be right about the lack of statistical significance depending on the distribution and sample size.

It is doubling the odds true. But overall, if even US MD gets 2 percent match, how confident can an individual be they are going to match into derm if they are only going
to US MD so they can do derm? There is a 98 percent chance you will not be a dermatologist even if you go to a US MD school.

Thats all I'm saying.

 

[Gandyy]

Don't forget the research aspect. If there's no ability to do research at your school, you'll pretty much take yourself to 0%.

A valid point.

In the end, I couldnt care less about dermatology.

I'm interested in Internal Medicine, Cardiology and various surgical residency's.

I'm also a non traditional pre-med so I'll be about 1.2 billion years old by the time
I am any one of those and thats if I even get into med school at all.

lol

 

[Mad Jack]

Truth. I dont know how deferring a year for DO just to try for an MD cycle looks though?

Building a better app. You can do a lot in a year.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

It is doubling the odds true. But overall, if even US MD gets 2 percent match, how confident can an individual be they are going to match into derm if they are only going
to US MD so they can do derm? There is a 98 percent chance you will not be a dermatologist even if you go to a US MD school.

Thats all I'm saying.

You are assuming that 100% of students want to match Derm.

I get what you are saying, matching derm is tough for everybody, but it's even tougher for DOs. This shouldn't be an argument.

 

[Gandyy]

You are assuming that 100% of students want to match Derm.

I get what you are saying, matching derm is tough for everybody, but it's even tougher for DOs. This shouldn't be an argument.

I never said it wasnt tougher for DO's. You are saying its much tougher for DO's which I disagree with.

I'm not really assuming anything, and I'd rather not continue this inane argument thats already been settled.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Hmm, I smell a bit of bitterness in that statement. I would not say 2% compared to 1% is MUCH easier. Goro's post above says it all.

Only on SDN does doubling your odds and going to a program where it's not super-shadowing in some guy's clinic not seen as much easier.

 

[Gandyy]

Only on SDN does doubling your odds and going to a program where it's not super-shadowing in some guy's clinic not seen as much easier.

sigh, alas i'm done save meeeeee

 

[abolt18]

You are on the money with Kirksville

I'm pretty confident goro is not here.

 

[Gandyy]

I'm pretty confident goro is not here.

HMMMMMM

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

I'm pretty confident goro is not here.

Ill take your word. Just a guess.......a bad one

 

[kenjixshadow]

I'm pretty confident goro is not here.

@Gandy741 @oOKawaiiOo He's right. I'm suspecting Goro is at one of the well known DO schools, but not KCOM...so must be the other one