DO - Degree Change ...

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So if the fairytale ever comes to pass and osteopathic schools start cranking out MDs, will they keep their same sub-standard GPA and MCAT admissions criteria?
 
endocardium said:
It's more like 9 months, and yes, I would vote that his experience is greater than your own. He has been exposed to remarkably more than you, in terms of osteopathic medical education, by virtue of direct experience. I didn't want to address your position relative to medical education here, but since you put it on the table, I'll comment... As a pre-medical student, generally speaking, of course (because there are always exceptions), you don't have very much of clue what you are talking about, and you can't really know until you are on the other side of the door. Right now, you are viewing things from an imaginary, hypothetical point of view, based on limited information that you have gather from secondary sources. Once you matriculate and experience the rigors, ups and downs, pain, and craziness of medical school, and become exposed to people on the inside of the process, your perspective may change. I know mine did. It was an awaking experience.

I don't wish to minimize your POV, because your view point is as valid as anyone elses, and certainly you have the right to express it (as long as it doesn't impinge on the rights of others). However, please realize that you are still standing on the outside of the door at this point in time. Congratulations on your acceptance, but you have a long way to go...
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Maybe I should add that when I was a premed, I considered this the whole degree thing to be a valid argument. Now I see it as nothing more than a ridiculous distraction. That is what medical education does to you. Regardless of what "DO" actually means, it is something that I have worked fairly hard to achieve and I'll be damned if a premed has the ethos to have an equal voice on the matter. It just isn't so.

Medical school is a vastly different experience than undergrad. I have sacrificed more than I am willing to say in the pursuit of my DO, and I and many of my colleagues and friends will fight tooth and nail to assure it remains.

Maybe it will take a few anatomy exams before you gain some pride in what you are working toward. Keep in mind I am not judging your ability to become a competent physician... I think that you need to learn what it is to actually be earning a DO before you are qualified to assess whether it is an adequate and proper designation. Even then, I would argue that you are wrong but would be satisfied that your viewpoint is credible.
 
gclax30 said:
So if the fairytale ever comes to pass and osteopathic schools start cranking out MDs, will they keep their same sub-standard GPA and MCAT admissions criteria?
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Sub-standard? How exactly do you make that judgement? Sub-standard implies that osteopathic med schools accept students that are unfit to be physicians. Ever consider the possibility that the depth of the pool of qualified applicants may go far beyond what is accepted into schools?

As a more objective assessment, however, I would have to say that it is likely that the accepted student averages may go up. However, PCOM routinely turns down high numbers for whatever reason... I have heard many stories of extremely well qualified applicants being waitlisted and rejected at this school.
 
Clearly both sides are very passionate about their stance. However, in your experience, has anyone ever been swayed to your beliefs by personal attacks? No. So that's clearly not going to work, on either side, is it?

From what I gather the pro changers are basically saying changing from DO to MD, DO will:

1) allow US DO's to practice overseas (differentiating US DOs from foreign DO's, who have a very limited scope of practice.

2) gain recognition within the US for those who aren't aware that a DO is BASICALLY equivalent to an MD, with all the same practice rights.

3) gain awareness of what differentiates a DO from an MD. MD, DO equals an MD + OMM basically.

4) end the seeming discrimination against DOs by giving DOs the well earned prestige of the MD moniker.

5) times have changed from when DOs first started. They used to be different from MDs, but they are basically the same now. We should change our degree to reflect that.

The anti changers seem to be saying leave DOs as DOs because:

1) DOs are different than their MD counterparts

2) we need to show respect for those who forged the way to get DOs full practice rights in this country.

3) the only reason to change the name is to make those who wish they had "MDs" feel better about themselves.

4) merging the two, by allowing MDs to do osteopathic residencies will decrease the residency spots we have available and make the mess we are already in, worse.

5) wasting time, energy, and money on this seemingly minor and ego-driven name change issue detracts from what is really important: fill in the blank...

6) how does changing the name help the profession with recognition? It will just add to the confusion.

7) how would having an MD in your title make you a better physician?

Feel free to add your own and comment on the above...

I personally am anti name change. Of the pro points as I've laid out, the only valid argument that I've heard is possibly for overseas rights, as that is confusing that there are foreign DOs with vastly different practice rights than US graduates. It's basically a totally different degree. But that's the only pro point I see with any validity. I think the others are actually more about ego than anything else.

I think it would be a waste of time and money. DOs will be 1/5 of all medical school students starting this fall. As more DOs enter the workforce, the recognition will continue to grow, and less of you will feel bad about not having MD in their names. There are physicians out there (as in an editorial in this month's DO mag) that say please leave the degree as is- people seek them out because of the DO designation. (there are editorials on both sides, check them out- they are well reasoned on both sides imo)

So, lets either have a civil discussion about this topic or just close this thread down. As it has been going, it is a bit embarrassing I'm afraid.

PS: don't mean to sound preachy or anything like that, just getting tired of all the poo poo throwing by naughty monkeys :laugh:
 
gclax30 said:
So if the fairytale ever comes to pass and osteopathic schools start cranking out MDs, will they keep their same sub-standard GPA and MCAT admissions criteria?
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That's the ironic thing. Anyone who is using DO as a backup and is arguing for a degree change doesn't realize that if the DO schools award an MD I'm sure all the little pre-medies with their 100000000 hours of lab research, 4.0 GPAs and 39 MCATs will be applying to these schools as well, thus eliminating all the 3.2GPA, 24MCAT "nontraditional" students arguing for the degree change. It's amazing that pre-meds who haven't stepped foot in a medical school classroom yet can't comprehend that they are going to be a physician....someone responsible for saving peoples' lives!!! Who the 'eff cares about the letters?? YOU WILL BE IN DIRECT CONTROL OF WHETHER SOMEONE LIVES OR DIES! I don't think these people who are proposing the degree change really understand just how selfish this whole thing appears.
 
I have to say that I am with you 1515, to a point. While no one's opinion should be silenced, it should be noted that the opinions of those who haven't started med school may be taken with a few more pinches of salt than those who've been exposed to what it is really like out there. (personal note: only been through 1 year myself, so I still have a whole lot to learn as well 😉)

As to substandard comment... Anyone who has been through the DO admissions process knows that the reason the ave GPA/MCATs are on average a bit lower than MD schools is because they are not the primary deciding factor on osteopathic admissions. As I've stated before, DO schools do, in fact, look at all of the applicant's qualities- which means that students who've done nothing but study for those big ol GPAs and MCAT scores simply won't get in compared to a student with lesser stats but are a more rounded applicant.
 
REM12 said:
So, lets either have a civil discussion about this topic or just close this thread down. As it has been going, it is a bit embarrassing I'm afraid.
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You have some pretty good insight.
 
Fact of the matter is: patient don't know what DO means. Most great DO's in the area that I rotate through (they are chief medical officers in a medium market city with no osteopathic schools) practice in the presence of anonymity; don't ask, don't tell. Fortunately, they are superb enough in practice that if they were to ever be asked, the patients wouldn't care.
 
I completely agree with allowing DOs who want to call themselves MDs do that. They should have to do it when they get their license, not just willy nilly every other day be an MD.

I can actually see the argument on both sides. Yes, a DO is something to be proud of and everyone who earns one should definitely be proud. But on the other hand, a family friend is a psychiatrist with a DO and according to him, when patients see that, they assume he's something along the lines of a PhD but not really. His wife is a family practice doctor with a DO and she's routinely mistaken for a chiropractor. There are so many alphabetical designations out there that unless you have an MD, most patients assume you're not a medical doctor. Some people are fine with that and don't mind explaining to their patients that they are, indeed, a medical doctor. For the ones who don't want the hassle, I think they should get to call themselves MD, even though I think it's mostly vanity.
 
MaximusD said:
Sub-standard? How exactly do you make that judgement? Sub-standard implies that osteopathic med schools accept students that are unfit to be physicians. Ever consider the possibility that the depth of the pool of qualified applicants may go far beyond what is accepted into schools?

As a more objective assessment, however, I would have to say that it is likely that the accepted student averages may go up. However, PCOM routinely turns down high numbers for whatever reason... I have heard many stories of extremely well qualified applicants being waitlisted and rejected at this school.
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I implied nothing about the quality of the physicans which these schools produce, nor am I judging by any means. I am simply observing the fact that MD schools have higher average numbers for admission, and am wondering if the DO schools will change their numbers to meet these standards.
 
gclax30 said:
I implied nothing about the quality of the physicans which these schools produce, nor am I judging by any means. I am simply observing the fact that MD schools have higher average numbers for admission, and am wondering if the DO schools will change their numbers to meet these standards.
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I think this is a pretty silly question. I get the impression you are either misinformed about certain things, or you are trying to incite trouble. Of course, osteopathic medical school will adjust to meet demands; it's simple economics, really. The statistics are the result of a variety of factors, but they are generally slave to the competition. In other words, statistics are driven by the competition and the process. If you unify the profession, then you will not only change the playing field, but also the kinds and number of players who are applying to play in that field, with one of the results being increased statistical averages. With an increased number of applicants and greater competition, the statistical averages are going to go up. In fact, as medical school admissions becomes more competitive in general, the trend is toward increasing statistical averages, anyway, not respective of degree.
 
Sub standard as a term is derogatory and is by its nature a judgmental term. If you did not mean that, please choose your words more carefully.

Schools don't just set numbers, it depends on who applies and who out of that pool is accepted. See previous post regarding osteopathic admissions views on MCATs and GPA as being only a small part of the applicants profile. So in response to your question, who knows? If the most qualified applicants have higher ave GPAs and MCATs, those numbers will go up, if not, they will stay the same.
 
studentDO said:
I only applied to DO schools. I could have easily gotten into an MD school -wasn't interested. quote]

i just everyone was as humble as this young DO student. You have a great career ahead of you fulfilling society's view of the stereotypical doctor.
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MedStudentWanna said:
But on the other hand, a family friend is a psychiatrist with a DO and according to him, when patients see that, they assume he's something along the lines of a PhD but not really.
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Yeah, but his patients are crazy. 🙂
 
REM12 said:
I have to say that I am with you 1515, to a point. While no one's opinion should be silenced, it should be noted that the opinions of those who haven't started med school may be taken with a few more pinches of salt than those who've been exposed to what it is really like out there. (personal note: only been through 1 year myself, so I still have a whole lot to learn as well 😉)

As to substandard comment... Anyone who has been through the DO admissions process knows that the reason the ave GPA/MCATs are on average a bit lower than MD schools is because they are not the primary deciding factor on osteopathic admissions. As I've stated before, DO schools do, in fact, look at all of the applicant's qualities- which means that students who've done nothing but study for those big ol GPAs and MCAT scores simply won't get in compared to a student with lesser stats but are a more rounded applicant.
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I have to agree with this. I interviewed with a guy who had a 34 and a 3.95 biochem degree from a big name california school. He told me the adcom was overly interested in his stats and wondered if he was applying to this school as a back up. He was subsequently denied admission. I might add that this guys had totally normal social skills and was quite personable. I guess the adcom stiffed out his desperation. :laugh:
 
medisforme said:
studentDO said:
I only applied to DO schools. I could have easily gotten into an MD school -wasn't interested.
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i just everyone was as humble as this young DO student. You have a great career ahead of you fulfilling society's view of the stereotypical doctor.
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Oh ... I'm not young, quite non-traditional. After having experienced many types of physicians NP's, PA's etc ... I made a clear cut choice of what I wanted to be. Thank you, I take that as a complement, I just want to be a country doctor.

Like I said, I fully support adding the MD in there if it would clear up this international practice rights isue.
 
ctdocMD said:
it doesn't bother many MD students because DO's don't take competitive residencies from us, ive heard of only 1 DO getting into a neurosurgery residency and none making it into derm, plastics, ortho, uro, ent, radio, etc. with that being said, if DO's open their residencies, im not really sure how many MD's are going to want to get their training from these programs, besides maybe some DO neurosurgery, orthopedics, uro, or radiology which I can also predict, MD's taking all over....so I mean, I dont see a benefit for MD's at all, in fact I think we are being take advantage of...the AOA has nothing to offer, nothing in comparison to what the AMA already gives us. also, your point on filling spots for US grads, there are many qualified FMGs who kill the boards and are heavily involved in research which should be getting spots over less qualified US candidates......someone previously mentioned in the thread about most that only the best candidates get the spots, well..here you go.....should a PD admit a DO who has mediocre boards, no research, alright ranking, etc. versus and doctor from Europe or somewhere that has scored in the top 90percentile of the boards, previous work experience, research, high ranking, etc. i know who i would choose...
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For what it's worth, I have met several very reputable DO orthos in the northeast, but that's beside the point.

The underlined statement you made is the crux of this whole issue. The idea seems to be--essentially--the osteo community taking from the allo pot and calling it sharing. I dont necessarilly think it's an awful idea, but allo grads really dont gain anything from it at the end of the day. I cant imagine an allo grad opting for an osteo residency unless the corresponding allo spot in that particular field wasnt available to them. 200 hours of OMM training? If I had just graduated med school that would be the last thing i would want to pursue.

The reasons people do or dont choose osteopathic school in the first place are the same across the board. MD's arent suddenly going to opt for osteo residencies in large numbers just because the option is there. DO's will opt for allo spots in larger numbers with the advent of the MD,DO designation. And i think everyone knows it.
 
How do you guys feel about the lukewarm response to the petition? There are only 280 people who have signed it and the goal is 1,000. From my perspective, the more and more I hear about this debate, the sillier it sounds. I really feel that, over time, the problems osteopathic physicians are experiencing with recognition will fade. Osteopathic medicine is in a period of growth. Over time we will see the discrepancies disappear.

That being said, I do believe the AOA has to do something. Whether it be a name change or more aggressive lobbying for the osteopathic profession. This will help to speed the process along.
 
Was the petition only posted here on SDN? If not then I do agree that the petition has had a pretty weak turnout. It cracks me up how everyone got so worked up over this and we are only basing this on a rumor. IF this proposed change is going to really be proposed I think there are still a lot of loose ends that would need to be taken into consideration.
 
As Written by AOA Presidnet Peter B. Ajluni, DO :

The AOA feels that at this point it's up to the entire House of Delegates to weigh in on the DO degree discussion through a resolution at the House of Delegates meeting in July.

I, for one, look forward to seeing any resolution brought to the House of Delegates on this DO degree discussion either affirming the degree credentials or calling for a change - at least then we'll know where the osteopathic medical profession stands on this issue.

I encourage you to talk to your delegates and let them know how you feel about the issue.

Pete

Source:
http://blogs.do-online.org/aoapresident.php?itemid=3963#c

Stop degrading each other on this issue. If you are passionate about this issue i would urge you to contact your house of delegates representative and take initiative.

Second Route (more practical): pursue state medical boards to push for legislation allowing DOs to be licensed similar to MBBS or MBBCh degree holders: who practice with MD licenses.
 
Brief version: If you wanted an MD after your name, you should have gone to an allopathic school.


Slightly longer version: People have made the case about different dental schools granting DDS or DMD degrees. The degrees are equivalent because the schools are equivalent.

Osteopathic schools pride themselves in having a different philosophy and using manipulation as a therapy. So the schools aren't equivalent. In other words, you can't have your cake (be different, undergo different training) and eat it too (have the same degree).
 
YourGoldTeeth said:
Brief version: If you wanted an MD after your name, you should have gone to an allopathic school.


Slightly longer version: People have made the case about different dental schools granting DDS or DMD degrees. The degrees are equivalent because the schools are equivalent.

Osteopathic schools pride themselves in having a different philosophy and using manipulation as a therapy. So the schools aren't equivalent. In other words, you can't have your cake (be different, undergo different training) and eat it too (have the same degree).
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Some osteopathic schools pride themselves on being different. Some don't.

Some osteopathic students want no part in this imaginary different kind of medicine the DOs practice. They view the insistence that this difference exists as a form of propoganda. Some osteopathic students are much more interested in being great physicians than in supporting some sort of group hallucination that "We are different, dammit!".

I imagine they felt this way before, during and after they applied to med school.

One point of view, coming from some corners of the "osteopathic" medical world is the aknowledgment that the medicine we are practicing is not different, our training is not different. The majority of us DO graduates now train in allopathic residency programs anyway.

The emperor is not wearing any clothes, and its time to admit it.

"Mr Gorbachev" I mean "President Ajuni, Tear down this wall."

For the record, I fully support keeping osteopathic medicine as an independent entity with American medicine. But I don't support the propoganda that we are doing something better, or different, or more or less holistic than allopathic medical schools. That is all just an advertizing slogan, or a smoke screen, to obscure some of the disturbing problems we have within our educational system.

"We treat the whole patient!! Isn't that great! And please, don't ask too many questions about our flagging GME programs or the overwhleming debt load of our graduates, the highest of all US med schools."

We should focus our energy on fixing those problems. Not hiding them behind some illusory "DO difference" and the cult of AT Still.

bth
 
bth7 said:
....The majority of us DO graduates now train in allopathic residency programs anyway....
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Technically, that really isn't true. While the majority now opt solely to enter the allopathic match, by the time the scramble is over many of those osteopathic positions have filled. In 2007, for example, after the scramble 53% of new DO grads were in osteopathic programs. Since the year 2000, the post-scramble rate has averaged somewhere between 51% and 57%. The figures for 2008 won't be released until later this fall.
 
I'm an MD/PhD student and I want to say enough is enough.

I'm sick of hearing about DO's being more holistic than us and how they have more to offer and how they "learn everything MD students do PLUS OMM."

I have a question - what do DO schools/grads/students contribute to medical research? Do any DO faculty have substantial NIH grants at their DO institutions?

Oh yeah, and how DO's are taking care of our primary care shortages. I'm pretty sure it's called PA and NP school.

The fact is most of you DO students probably have an inferiority complex and probably don't give 2 ****s for your "holistic ways" anyways and just are in DO school because you partied too much in undergrad.
 
MyNameIsOtto said:
I'm sick of hearing about DO's being more holistic than us and how they have more to offer and how they "learn everything MD students do PLUS OMM."
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I agree with you totally about the holistic thing. I find it offensive because we all know there are crappy doctors and great doctors, and that their degree has absolutely nothing to do with it.

However we do learn everything MD students learn PLUS OMM. Obviously our curriculums differ aesthetically but everything is there. Why do you think differently? Do you want to look at my school's curriculum?

Oh, awesome sig. by the way
 
MyNameIsOtto said:
I have a question - what do DO schools/grads/students contribute to medical research? Do any DO faculty have substantial NIH grants at their DO institutions?
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It is a dated article, but it's a start:

http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/107/11/469

Oh yeah, and how DO's are taking care of our primary care shortages. I'm pretty sure it's called PA and NP school.
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Um, because, on average, more DO's specialize in a primary care field than all others? According to the 2006 fact sheet, approximately 63% of active DO's are practicing in a primary care specialty.

The fact is most of you DO students probably have an inferiority complex and probably don't give 2 ****s for your "holistic ways" anyways and just are in DO school because you partied too much in undergrad.
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Wow. I guess, if we are in the business of prejudicial thinking, I would say that most MD students have a superiority complex, etc., based on your writing... However, I know that would be wholly untrue because I keep my mind open and judge people individually based on their actions, rather than engage in bigotry and prejudicial thinking, much as you are doing right now.
 
I didn't know you could get an MD/PhD in the Carribean. Cool dude, rock on. Have I mentioned that I have an MD/DO/JD/PhD/EdD/phD/DSN/PsyD/ND/PhD/DC/Ddiv/LLD/PhD/DVM/DDS/DMD/VD? I could be full of shigella, but this is the internet. How could you know? I could say anything and feel safe & secure that nobody knows the truth.
Ad verecundiam (look it up, ding dong).
 
amindwalker said:
I didn't know you could get an MD/PhD in the Carribean. Cool dude, rock on. Have I mentioned that I have an MD/DO/JD/PhD/EdD/phD/DSN/PsyD/ND/PhD/DC/Ddiv/LLD/PhD/DVM/DDS/DMD/VD? I could be full of shigella, but this is the internet. How could you know? I could say anything and feel safe & secure that nobody knows the truth.
Ad verecundiam (look it up, ding dong).
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Dude, you forgot the MBBS! 😆

- Shaman bkpa2med
 
It was implied in the MD, they get to do that ya know.
 
MyNameIsOtto said:
The fact is most of you DO students . . . just are in DO school because you partied too much in undergrad.
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Well maybe that's true, but guess what . . . I'm still gonna become a doctor.
How you like me now, smartypants?:hardy:
 
MyNameIsOtto said:
The fact is most of you DO students are in DO school because you partied too much in undergrad.
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Damn right we did! :laugh:

And I don't regret it for a minute. It's called having a life.

Oh, and by the way, my MCAT score and Step 1 score are still way above the average MD/PhD.

What a tool.
 
My goodness, such anger, Otto. I'm sorry things aren't going well. Do you regret not having a good time in your life thus far? If so, it's never too late to have fun. 😉
 
Here's the begining of the end folks. By all means, please keep whining about changing your initials while your profession goes straight into the crapper.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=510721

I'll bet you will wear your MDO proudly when you can't find any available clinical rotation sites or are forced into a family medicine residency in a town in south dakota with a population of 85.
 
J1515 said:
Here's the begining of the end folks. By all means, please keep whining about changing your initials while your profession goes straight into the crapper.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=510721

I'll bet you will wear your MDO proudly when you can't find any available clinical rotation sites or are forced into a family medicine residency in a town in south dakota with a population of 85.
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Agreed. This is no good.

Hey, but at least there will be a lot of us. We can all hang out in SD together.
 
bth7 said:
Agreed. This is no good.

Hey, but at least there will be a lot of us. We can all hang out in SD together.
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So just out of curiosity, and this isn't directed at you personally, but why is nobody starting a petition against this? Preventing something from happening in the future is a lot easier than trying to change something already written in stone (ie - changing a degree designation). Well? Do you guys honestly think our initials are more important?
 
J1515 said:
So just out of curiosity, and this isn't directed at you personally, but why is nobody starting a petition against this? Preventing something from happening in the future is a lot easier than trying to change something already written in stone (ie - changing a degree designation). Well? Do you guys honestly think our initials are more important?
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Where do you get the idea that we think "our initials are more important?"
 
Eww... Apparently osteopathic medical schools are sprouting up faster than weeds in my lawn. Horrible trend... 👎
 
MyNameIsOtto said:
I'm an MD/PhD student and I want to say enough is enough.

I'm sick of hearing about DO's being more holistic than us and how they have more to offer and how they "learn everything MD students do PLUS OMM."

I have a question - what do DO schools/grads/students contribute to medical research? Do any DO faculty have substantial NIH grants at their DO institutions?

Oh yeah, and how DO's are taking care of our primary care shortages. I'm pretty sure it's called PA and NP school.

The fact is most of you DO students probably have an inferiority complex and probably don't give 2 ****s for your "holistic ways" anyways and just are in DO school because you partied too much in undergrad.
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:laugh: EVERYONE knows that it's easier to get into MD/PhD programs than it is to get into straight MD programs. Perhaps you should think about that before berating an entire profession. 👎

Is the only reason you went MD/PhD because you wanted a backdoor entrance to the allopathic medical profession? Probably not.

Why can't you apply that same logic to DO students?
 
bth7 said:
Some osteopathic schools pride themselves on being different. Some don't.

Some osteopathic students want no part in this imaginary different kind of medicine the DOs practice. They view the insistence that this difference exists as a form of propoganda. Some osteopathic students are much more interested in being great physicians than in supporting some sort of group hallucination that "We are different, dammit!"
bth
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So if people in DO school want no part of what makes DO different than MD, and want MD's after their names, why did they apply to DO schools?
 
YourGoldTeeth said:
So if people in DO school want no part of what makes DO different than MD, and want MD's after their names, why did they apply to DO schools?
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Because they couldn't get into an allopathic school.
 
J1515 said:
Because they couldn't get into an allopathic school.
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That's not necessarily a bad thing. I'll admit that I will most likely be attending an osteopathic school because I didn't get in to the allopathic programs I interviewed at (one pending). However, I am happy with the opportunity to be a physician and I think both routes have their pros and cons.

As far as the degree change, I could care less either way as long as I can be a physician.
 
Would the degree change facilitate an osteopathic and allopathic convergence? Probably...but I get the feeling there are much more important and significant ways to merge the two.

I would like to see this energy put into improving osteopathic education (more research at osteopathic schools, decrease in tuition, attaching schools to teaching hospitals, better residency opportunities) instead of focusing on superficial things like a degree change.
 
Concubine said:
That's not necessarily a bad thing. I'll admit that I will most likely be attending an osteopathic school because I didn't get in to the allopathic programs I interviewed at (one pending). However, I am happy with the opportunity to be a physician and I think both routes have their pros and cons.

As far as the degree change, I could care less either way as long as I can be a physician.
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👍👍👍

I wish there were more people like you. Whether you attain an MD or DO, congrats - you will be a physician and your head is in the right place.

For the others, I didn't say using osteopathic schools as a backup is necessarily a "bad thing", but using DO as a backup and then complaining that the whole profession should change their degree designation for no logical reason other than because you wish you could have MD after your name is ridiculous.

This thread is 6 pages long and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how changing my initials will allow me to provide better treatments and save more lives.
 
J1515 said:
👍👍👍

I wish there were more people like you. Whether you attain an MD or DO, congrats - you will be a physician and your head is in the right place.

For the others, I didn't say using osteopathic schools as a backup is necessarily a "bad thing", but using DO as a backup and then complaining that the whole profession should change their degree designation for no logical reason other than because you wish you could have MD after your name is ridiculous.

This thread is 6 pages long and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how changing my initials will allow me to provide better treatments and save more lives.
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👍

as I've asked oh-so-many times.

Anyone care to tackle this little query?
 
J1515 said:
👍👍👍

I wish there were more people like you. Whether you attain an MD or DO, congrats - you will be a physician and your head is in the right place.

For the others, I didn't say using osteopathic schools as a backup is necessarily a "bad thing", but using DO as a backup and then complaining that the whole profession should change their degree designation for no logical reason other than because you wish you could have MD after your name is ridiculous.

This thread is 6 pages long and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how changing my initials will allow me to provide better treatments and save more lives.
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I completely agree with you. That's what I was trying to get at with my previous post - it's a silly debate/argument. The benefits are questionable and the process is lengthy. Something, however, has to be done to increase public awareness about DOs, whether the AOA decides to change the degree or lobby some other support. I, for one, believe the recognition issue will resolve itself over time as a result of the increase in prominence of the profession.
 
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