DO for Canadians: 2011-2012

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Howdy folks: For AZCOM, they told me if something happens and I drop out I'll be refunded any unused tuition dollars. Also, you only prepay tuition and student fees (the $51000 a year) up front. The schools health insurance is like $2300 or something crazy, so I did the waiver and am using Manulife Financial which is around $600 a year.

Rumor has it tuition at AZCOM will climb $4000 this year. And please don't think tuition is going to stop climbing or that one day it'll go down. Right now our school is seeing record applications and the kids applying are more and more competitive (I believe average for my class was 3.5 and a 29, and trust me it shows; we have an incredibly intelligent class). Unfortunately medical school is a business and they operate on the happy side of the supply demand curve.

I'm not saying prepaying is the best option. Just saying it is something to consider. Also, don't misconstrue my post as me saying I prepaid. I looked into it and am passing on the information I was told. Cheers =)
Members don't see this ad.
 
thumbz said:
Howdy folks: For AZCOM, they told me if something happens and I drop out I'll be refunded any unused tuition dollars. Also, you only prepay tuition and student fees (the $51000 a year) up front. The schools health insurance is like $2300 or something crazy, so I did the waiver and am using Manulife Financial which is around $600 a year.

Rumor has it tuition at AZCOM will climb $4000 this year. And please don't think tuition is going to stop climbing or that one day it'll go down. Right now our school is seeing record applications and the kids applying are more and more competitive (I believe average for my class was 3.5 and a 29, and trust me it shows; we have an incredibly intelligent class). Unfortunately medical school is a business and they operate on the happy side of the supply demand curve.

I'm not saying prepaying is the best option. Just saying it is something to consider. Also, don't misconstrue my post as me saying I prepaid. I looked into it and am passing on the information I was told. Cheers =)
Click to expand...

If it is true that we can get refund, then paying 4yr tuition may be a better option; especially if I can get prime + 1 from BMO.
I'll try to get in contact with Karen Owen tomorrow and try to get a written documentation to confirm.
 
thumbz said:
Howdy folks: For AZCOM, they told me if something happens and I drop out I'll be refunded any unused tuition dollars. Also, you only prepay tuition and student fees (the $51000 a year) up front. The schools health insurance is like $2300 or something crazy, so I did the waiver and am using Manulife Financial which is around $600 a year.

Rumor has it tuition at AZCOM will climb $4000 this year. And please don't think tuition is going to stop climbing or that one day it'll go down. Right now our school is seeing record applications and the kids applying are more and more competitive (I believe average for my class was 3.5 and a 29, and trust me it shows; we have an incredibly intelligent class). Unfortunately medical school is a business and they operate on the happy side of the supply demand curve.

I'm not saying prepaying is the best option. Just saying it is something to consider. Also, don't misconstrue my post as me saying I prepaid. I looked into it and am passing on the information I was told. Cheers =)
Click to expand...

Thanks thumbz.... when I consider doing the prepay I know there are many variables involved but the items I'm fairly confident on is that tuition will always go up lol and the money exchange may not be this good for the next 4.5 years because I'm thinking the american dollar will start to get some strength back eventually.

So that insurance you have through Manulife.. that is health insurance correct. It provides full coverage for you while in the US? Does it also provide preventative care and what not or just emergency stuff?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
It does preventative care as well, the school specifically states it can not just be catastrophe coverage (otherwise my credit card would cover me). So if I need to go to the doc cause I get bronchitis or something I am covered. Note this doesn't include dental. But the school actually has a wicked awesome dental plan for a great price that you can look in to, but I just see my dentist when I vacation home.
 
Well I am relieved... 300K student line of credit locked in from BMO... looks like there is nothing else in the way. :)
 
SRC1987 said:
Well I am relieved... 300K student line of credit locked in from BMO... looks like there is nothing else in the way. :)
Click to expand...

Just wondering, how were you able to receive 300K student line of credit? I thought the limit was 200k for student loans.
 
more than likely the cosigner has to secure the loan to get more either with investments or property.
 
Yes they look at the collateral your co-signed (my parents) have. How I see it is if I default on my loan my parents need to either be able to continue the payments or they need to have retirments money/homes/cars the bank could go after.

You never know until you try. So if you haven't applied to any banks yet and have any sort of affiliation with BMO you may want to take a look.
 
If a Canadian student writes only the COMLEX and the not the USMLE, will he/she be able to practice in Canada?
 
you have to look at the requirements for the ACGME residency you want to match.
 
At present there are several provinces that accept COMLEX, however that could change in the future. To return to Canada one needs an Acgme residency. Some ACGME residencies require USMLE, whereas others accept COMLEX. Of course you could apply for residency in Canada, but at this time requires you to do the Medical Council of Canada Evaluating Exam to apply through the Canadian match. To license in Canada one typically will need to finish Parts 1 and 2 of the Medical Council of Canada exams, however Comlex has been accepted by several provinces. The new "Canadian standard for full licensure" includes the Medical Council of Canada exams and one can anticipate that this will be the standard throughout Canada in the very near future. Likewise the USMLE has been accepted as equivalent to the Medical Council of Canada exams, but again with this anticipated standardization across the provinces whether or not this stays this way is highly suspect. If one does an ACGME residency in the United States then the Medical Council of Canada Evaluating Exam is waived. In essence if one wishes to practice in Canada the best is to take the Medical Council of Canada exams. Theoretically to practise in Canada then one wouldn't have to do either the COMLEX of the USMLE, however that would be risky because you would have to match a Canadian residency. If one wishes to do a program in the U.S. that requires the USMLE to apply for it then the answer is obvious, do it. If COMLEX is accepted by the programs you are interested then you don't have to take the USMLE, but you could. The risk then is that you do poorly on the USMLE and well on the COMLEX. This is where one has to individualize their own situation and make the decision best for them. Of course if you ace both the USMLE and COMLEX you're even more competitive. Sure would be nice to have a future scope. Best of luck. Hope this helps.
 
Thank you for the information. I greatly appreciate it! Just wondering, what happens if one takes the COMLEX & does well on it, but not so well on the USMLE? Would he/she still be able to apply to ACGME residencies that only require the COMLEX? Or would those ACGME residencies look at the USMLE scores as well?

Cando said:
At present there are several provinces that accept COMLEX, however that could change in the future. To return to Canada one needs an Acgme residency. Some ACGME residencies require USMLE, whereas others accept COMLEX. Of course you could apply for residency in Canada, but at this time requires you to do the Medical Council of Canada Evaluating Exam to apply through the Canadian match. To license in Canada one typically will need to finish Parts 1 and 2 of the Medical Council of Canada exams, however Comlex has been accepted by several provinces. The new "Canadian standard for full licensure" includes the Medical Council of Canada exams and one can anticipate that this will be the standard throughout Canada in the very near future. Likewise the USMLE has been accepted as equivalent to the Medical Council of Canada exams, but again with this anticipated standardization across the provinces whether or not this stays this way is highly suspect. If one does an ACGME residency in the United States then the Medical Council of Canada Evaluating Exam is waived. In essence if one wishes to practice in Canada the best is to take the Medical Council of Canada exams. Theoretically to practise in Canada then one wouldn't have to do either the COMLEX of the USMLE, however that would be risky because you would have to match a Canadian residency. If one wishes to do a program in the U.S. that requires the USMLE to apply for it then the answer is obvious, do it. If COMLEX is accepted by the programs you are interested then you don't have to take the USMLE, but you could. The risk then is that you do poorly on the USMLE and well on the COMLEX. This is where one has to individualize their own situation and make the decision best for them. Of course if you ace both the USMLE and COMLEX you're even more competitive. Sure would be nice to have a future scope. Best of luck. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
Call me crazy, but I'm thinking of doing USMLE, COMLEX, and MCCEE. I dunno if anyone has done this, but it sounds like a LOT of studying
 
Yea I'm hoping there is loads of overlap between the three. From what I've read on forums the Canadian exam seems to be a lot easier.
 
bhavik said:
Yea I'm hoping there is loads of overlap between the three. From what I've read on forums the Canadian exam seems to be a lot easier.
Click to expand...


Ya...apparently a lot of CDN med students use USMLE prep books to study for their boards. Also Taus method seems to focus mostly on the USMLE prep but with some addition for COMLEX materials (for OMM).
I think question style is different between COMLEX and USMLE but there seems to be a lot of overlap. So studying for USMLE will kinda prep you for COMLEX and MCCEE.
I hope I'm right lol
 
mathewm said:
Thank you for the information. I greatly appreciate it! Just wondering, what happens if one takes the COMLEX & does well on it, but not so well on the USMLE? Would he/she still be able to apply to ACGME residencies that only require the COMLEX? Or would those ACGME residencies look at the USMLE scores as well?
Click to expand...

From what I have read, both scores are looked at - hence the risk.
 
"Theoretically to practise in Canada then one wouldn't have to do either the COMLEX of the USMLE, however that would be risky because you would have to match a Canadian residency."

Just a minor clarification: As a DO student (in a US osteopathic school) you have write the COMLEX to graduate from your school.
 
Kliffmeister said:
Call me crazy, but I'm thinking of doing USMLE, COMLEX, and MCCEE. I dunno if anyone has done this, but it sounds like a LOT of studying
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I'll do both USMLE and Comlex although I think if I try to do a residency in MI, I won't need the USMLE.
 
Hey, just wanted to know the stats of Canadians who got accepted to KCUMB this year
 
For any Canadian students who are in AZCOM, is there any particular 3rd year rotation site that is beneficial? Or are all the sites the same?
 
Last edited:
Does anyone know much about Canadian Osteopathic Educational Fund? You know the scholarship you receive if you agree to come back to Canada? I tried calling Mrs. Roper but her number is not valid anymore (of course this was 3yrs ago).
Is the fund not available to students anymore? It would be nice to receive $5000 :D
 
I spoke to her last spring before coming down to KCUMB and she said it was not offered anymore.
 
Err. Deleted double post. Trying to use sdn from a phone, on the subway (underground) is a pain haha.
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone.

I've got a good question for you all!

My question is specifically regarding a Canadian applicant. I've been accepted to both MSUCOM and NOVA. While both schools are fairly "Canadian friendly", does anyone have any insight regarding which school would be better to attend given my goal is to return to Canada for residency? Since MSU started a Canadian initiative (amongst other reasons), I'm leaning towards MSU. I also know how new this program is, so there is no previous data to go off of!! Haha.

Been trying to get a hold of staff at MSU, but they have been really hard to get a hold of.

I understand there are a few more regulatory loopholes etc. and while I'm a US citizen as well, coming back home and to family is what I want.

So goal= Canadian/ Ontario residency. MSU or nova?

(sorry for the cross post. I think this thread get more traffic!)
 
for nova (but please research)..aka florida

i dunno 100%...but i think you hvae to do at least 1 year aoa res or a transition year...or something like that before you do acgme

but again..not 100% sure
 
id msu it...its got a stronger can population and a better school

nova..i think if you go there you WONT come back*

i dont mean bc your a DO..but bc the weather ..the beaches..and the cities are damn nice...you will have no reason to come to canada
 
se20001984 said:
i dunno 100%...but i think you hvae to do at least 1 year aoa res or a transition year...or something like that before you do acgme
Click to expand...

This is absolutely incorrect. Please make sure you know the fact before you post. Thanks.
 
Haha... I know, I just skimmed over that one and ignored it. Agree with your sentiments SkyRider.
 
For those Cdn students at AZCOM, how did you show the initial $352,000. When I called the school, they told me the amount has be in an US bank that is physically located in the States, and not an US account that is part of a Canadian bank. So how did you guys go on to do that?
 
se20001984 said:
id msu it...its got a stronger can population and a better school

nova..i think if you go there you WONT come back*

i dont mean bc your a DO..but bc the weather ..the beaches..and the cities are damn nice...you will have no reason to come to canada
Click to expand...

I know. With 20-25 CDN students per year, I think they will definitely have a large number of us there.... with (I assume??) a good plan on what to do with us! I haven't seen anything about whether that is before residency or after residency however. I'll post what I learn, if I ever get in touch with one of the staff at MSU.

... and tell me about it! Nova is gorgeous. We have a condo in Ft. Lauderdale. Going to school where most people go on VACATION would be nice haha :) But I have family and my wife here. My long term goal is to return. :)
 
newno55 said:
I know. With 20-25 CDN students per year, I think they will definitely have a large number of us there.... with (I assume??) a good plan on what to do with us! I haven't seen anything about whether that is before residency or after residency however. I'll post what I learn, if I ever get in touch with one of the staff at MSU.

... and tell me about it! Nova is gorgeous. We have a condo in Ft. Lauderdale. Going to school where most people go on VACATION would be nice haha :) But I have family and my wife here. My long term goal is to return. :)
Click to expand...


Seriously, go to MSUCOM. It's such a good school and close to Canada. You are going to school to study mostly. Since there are many CDN students at MSU, you guys could try to push for the school to get some rotation sites in Canada
 
The reasons you outlined above are exactly what I'm thinking too. Plus the whole "Canadian Initiative" hopefully means something more than just accepting a few more Canadian students than normal... haha. Rotations sites in Canada would be very nice indeed :)
 
+1 for MSU, I had to make the exact same decision and ended up choosing MSU. It will probably be easier to get back b/c of the Canadian initiative, possible chances to do rotations in Ontario and MSU's good reputation as a DO school. Also, a lot of COM grads will go into MI AOA residencies- if you want to come back, you need to do an ACGME/Canadian residency... it might be easier to get an ACGME residency by going to MSU since a lot of grads will go AOA, but that is just my personal hunch on the matter and definitely not a fact. Finally, I seriously doubt MSU would take 20-25 Canadians per year without a 'plan', so to speak.

Fort Lauderdale is awesome though. NSU was also a very aesthetically pleasing school, so clean, good facilities etc. haha. The reason I would consider NSU would be the weather and FL lifestyle, but medical school isn't going to be as easy as chillin on the beach. In the end, it's a personal decision and you should decide what you think is best fit for YOU. It's a hard choice but writing the pros and cons for each school on paper (seriously, do it) makes it easier. Good luck!
 
NSU is no where near the level of MSU in my opinion. (***especially as a Canadian).

The support you will have from your fellow Canadians (25 in the class above you, plus im assuming another 15-25 in Class 2016) is priceless. You will be around a lot of people with similar goals and im sure the networking through that will be amazing. I would kill for my school to have that many Canadians

+1 MSU
 
AP gooner said:
Finally, I seriously doubt MSU would take 20-25 Canadians per year without a 'plan', so to speak.
Click to expand...

HA! I spoke to someone in student services today. To be honest, they said they didn't know quite how it was going to turn out, given how new the Canadian program is! They were quite confident about their plan however.

I agree with you on that one however :p
 
docnotsopc said:
NSU is no where near the level of MSU in my opinion. (***especially as a Canadian).

The support you will have from your fellow Canadians (25 in the class above you, plus im assuming another 15-25 in Class 2016) is priceless. You will be around a lot of people with similar goals and im sure the networking through that will be amazing. I would kill for my school to have that many Canadians

+1 MSU
Click to expand...

Nice good to hear :prof:. This thread is definitely clearing things up for me.

Plus having 20-25 people in your EXACT same situation WOULD probably help, heh.
 
I wouldn't be too optimistic about MSU having a "plan" for its Canadian students, or any other school for that matter (MD or DO). Take a close look at your school's policy handbook or whatever document they have that acts as a "contract" between the school and you that starts the moment you start in that school.

The one at Western basically said that the school is only responsible for getting you graduated, it does not guarantee that you'll get into any residency. Our 1 star admiral dean Adams personally emphasized this part. It'll be the same thing for MSU, NOVA, etc.

At the end of the journey, it will be YOU and you ALONE that's responsible for getting you a residency in Canada or elsewhere. No one, nor institution can do that for you.

The situation at MSU is unique in that the COA worked out a deal with them to "bolster the ranks" of Canadian DOs - as the matriculant rate was pretty pitiful at less than 15-10 Canadians a year for all DO schools. It is assumed that having a medical DO degree will eventually get you something somewhere, and for those who are up for it, maybe home to Canada. It's safe to say that they have no plan to guarantee you residency spots, or rotations in Canada or anything of that nature.
 
Last edited:
mashmetoo said:
I wouldn't be too optimistic about MSU having a "plan" for its Canadian students, or any other school for that matter (MD or DO). Take a close look at your school's policy handbook or whatever document they have that acts as a "contract" between the school and you that starts the moment you start in that school.

The one at Western basically said that the school is only responsible for getting you graduated, it does not guarantee that you'll get into any residency. Our 1 star admiral dean Adams personally emphasized this part. It'll be the same thing for MSU, NOVA, etc.

At the end of the journey, it will be YOU and you ALONE that's responsible for getting you a residency in Canada or elsewhere. No one, nor institution can do that for you.

The situation at MSU is unique in that the COA worked out a deal with them to "bolster the ranks" of Canadian DOs - as the matriculant rate was pretty pitiful at less than 15-10 Canadians a year for all DO schools. It is assumed that having a medical DO degree will eventually get you something somewhere, and for those who are up for it, maybe home to Canada. It's safe to say that they have no plan to guarantee you residency spots, or rotations in Canada or anything of that nature.


Click to expand...

Nothing is guaranteed, but MI has a lot of residencies that MSU students will be exposed to. At the Pre-orientation, I asked about "sponsoring visa" because I noticed a lot of residencies said that they don't sponsor visa on the website. Dr. Falls told me that this was going to change, so its not like they are just forgetting about us. Needless to say, performance in med school is going to be still the area that I am going to focus on so I can be attractive to any residency.
 
mashmetoo said:
The one at Western basically said that the school is only responsible for getting you graduated, it does not guarantee that you'll get into any residency.

At the end of the journey, it will be YOU and you ALONE that's responsible for getting you a residency in Canada or elsewhere. No one, nor institution can do that for you.

It's safe to say that they have no plan to guarantee you residency spots, or rotations in Canada or anything of that nature.
Click to expand...


I agree completely with your statements. No one said anything about guarantees :). Just trying to gather public opinion on NOVA vs MSU for my case (goal of CDN residency). As far as the school having a plan... of course they have a plan. I'm sure this is not something they are taking lightly haha. I'm just trying to fish for what that plan is, you know? so I can make the best decision for myself.

In the end, I think having a "Canadian Initiative" at MSU is better than going to a school that doesn't have one... so that's something ...
 
drgioiadds said:
Nothing is guaranteed, but MI has a lot of residencies that MSU students will be exposed to. At the Pre-orientation, I asked about "sponsoring visa" because I noticed a lot of residencies said that they don't sponsor visa on the website. Dr. Falls told me that this was going to change, so its not like they are just forgetting about us. Needless to say, performance in med school is going to be still the area that I am going to focus on so I can be attractive to any residency.
Click to expand...

My experience has been that school recruiters tend to be like car salesmen - they have golden tongues. They'll say all the good things about a school to get you to matriculate. This has simply been an observation. I've seen it in my school, and I'm sure it's the same case for other schools.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that MSU has a plan - insofar as to increase the number of Canadians holding the USDO degree. Their plan is to recruit a maximum of 25 Canadians for 5 years. They are in year 2 of that plan now. That's basically the totality of their "plan". The emergent benefits are that when you have a bunch of Canadians together, things will be "easier" as you'll get more networking opportunities, and a bunch of people from the same backgrounds and future goals - of return to Canada (probably).

The other benefit is that MSU has more residencies than most/any other places to begin with - I saw it was around 1000 or so. So as a student there, you are bound to come across programs and program directors that will do your visa for you. From my observations, there is no "plan" for anything other than getting their target of 25 Canadians a year, and making sure you all graduate - thereby fulfilling MSU's "initiative" of "bolstering the ranks" of Canadian USDOs. And as you said, everything else - getting good marks, getting residencies - is still totally up to the individual.

Different programs have different program directors, and it's these program directors that decide whether they do visas or not - and whether their capability to do visas is dependent on some other factor like getting the funding from the school, I can't say. So unless Dr. Falls is a program director, or some kind of big shot at MSU, my first impression of his claim that they are changing the visa policies at MSU, is that of skepticism. The different residency programs tend to not talk to each other, you can have a FM residency that sponsors the H1, and an IM residency next door that sponsors nothing. As far as I know, there is no central agency that gives out edicts that residencies shall sponsor visas - this is entirely program director/program dependent. Anyway, I'm trained to be highly skeptical of these sorts of claims when all the evidence I see points in the other direction. It might just be a good "car sales man" thing happening here. (I'm prepared to retract this last statement if more evidence can be presented).
 
Last edited:
newno55 said:
I agree completely with your statements. No one said anything about guarantees :). Just trying to gather public opinion on NOVA vs MSU for my case (goal of CDN residency). As far as the school having a plan... of course they have a plan. I'm sure this is not something they are taking lightly haha. I'm just trying to fish for what that plan is, you know? so I can make the best decision for myself.

In the end, I think having a "Canadian Initiative" at MSU is better than going to a school that doesn't have one... so that's something ...
Click to expand...

please refer to my post above. I urge Canadians to avoid the mentality/thinking that "MSU has a great plan, they'll look after me and get me a residency/rotations in Canada". They'll look after you in the sense that they'll help you to graduate, get your core clinical rotations done. If you want electives in Canada, that's actually up to YOU to search, apply, and get, just like everything else.

Just saying, if you went to a warmer climate like socal or florida for 3-4 years, you won't want to return to Canada :p
 
Last edited:
mashmetoo said:
please refer to my post above. Just saying, if you went to a warmer climate like socal or florida for 3-4 years, you won't want to return to Canada :p
Click to expand...

Tell me about it. Our family has a condo down in FL. Beautiful weather. Although my wife might not be too happy if i do not return :nono:
 
mashmetoo said:
They'll look after you in the sense that they'll help you to graduate, get your core clinical rotations done. If you want electives in Canada, that's actually up to YOU to search, apply, and get, just like everything else.
Click to expand...

Yes yes yes, agree. For me, worst case scenario it's no different than any other school (ie. NOVA). Best case scenario, better networking, guidance with a little more experience dealing with this issue and familiarity of CDN programs with MSU DO students. I'm from the GTA so Detroit isn't so far :)
 
I think it would look bad on the school to have a lot of unmatched students....especially for visa reasons.
 
drgioiadds said:
I think it would look bad on the school to have a lot of unmatched students....especially for visa reasons.
Click to expand...

I'm sure most of MSUers will match something, somewhere. If not at MSU, then some other place. I'm sure a significant number will also make it back to Canada.

My point was to be wary of "promises" that schools make, and to not simply assume that they have some grand plan to get Canadians back in Canada, or prepare a bunch of H1B sponsoring residencies for us, rather than the most simple goal of simply increasing the cold hard numbers of Canadians with a USDO degree. After that, you are on your own.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

M
Thread for Canadians with IIs at USDO
Replies
9
Views
1K
math-wizo
M
M
Any Canadians at WCUCOM I can talk to?
Replies
0
Views
388
math-wizo
M
H
Canadian DO Applicant
Replies
4
Views
1K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
H
Too late to apply with these stats? *canadian
Replies
5
Views
954
hopefulmed97
H
P
Canadian DO Applicant Are my stats good enough?
Replies
1
Views
979
Faha
F
Top