DO for Canadians

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ManUnderFire said:
You mean PCOM :laugh:. I checked for a COMP in the CIB and only found PCOM.
Click to expand...

COMP = Western. TOok me a while to figure that out too
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Razmatazz said:
Can some of you call tomorrow and see what the person says just to make sure, just in case this person was making a mistake about not taking Canadians.

This was from their email:
The Office of Admissions is available to assist you throughout the admissions process. You may contact the Office of Admissions at (941) 756-0690 Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., Eastern Standard Time.

Just ask for admissions and you get forwarded.

Thanks
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So i did call them on Monday and they told me that LECOM-Bradenton does not take in Canadians unless you have a green card (ie permanent resident of US)

So, that's one less school for us now. Not like there were many to begin with :(
 
For all the Canadians planning on pursuing the DO route, I am curious, what are your future plans, to stay in the states or return to Canada? Based on your experiences or talks with local docs, do you feel it will be feasible to obtain residency in Canada or will the bias of program directors be too much. I think it it awesome that CARMs allows DOs to match in the first iteration in Ont/BC, I just hope Canadian DOs are able to do so!!
 
jaywalk said:
So i did call them on Monday and they told me that LECOM-Bradenton does not take in Canadians unless you have a green card (ie permanent resident of US)

So, that's one less school for us now. Not like there were many to begin with :(
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Really? When I asked like 6 months back they said both their campuses accepted Canadians/internationals without that condition... I guess they've changed their admissions for 2011. What about LECOM-Erie/Seton?

I just had a question.. Do I really have to do an evaluation by WES? I know our semester hours are different from the States. The ACCOMAS support techs said that I'll have to send each school some sort of letter from the Registrar that states that my labs are included in the prequisite courses. I'm from MAC and we only have 3units per course, regardless of the fact that it may contain a lab. In the States, 3semester hours is 3 hours of class per week; 4 semester hours means that there is also a lab component of 3 hours or so. Has anyone done the evaluation?

Cheers and gl everyone!
 
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jaywalk said:
ucalgary is on a 4.0 scale. lucky enough for me.

OP go here: http://osteopathic.ca/documents.htm

This has a list of all DO that will take canadians. they haven't updated the list yet but i don't think LMU takes internationals anymore plus a few new schools like VCOM-CC, COMP-lebanon take internationals.
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And yes, LMU no longer takes international students. I called them the week admins were making the decision to take internationals or not and a few days later, the secretary called me back to tell me the unfortunate news. :(
 
According to their website, you can apply to Chicago with your undergrad from Canada. And yes unfortunately we really do need the world evaluation thing.

Do we need to wait for the results of the world evaluation before filling out the primary application? Can we just do our best to convert grades and credit hours and if we made a mistake will AACOMAS just fix it for us?

Does anyone who has had their transcript evaluated know which GPA conversion scale they use for percentage grades from Western, Queen's or the like? Is it similar to the OMSAS scale or more like the AMCAS scale (60-69= 2.0, 70-79= 3.0 and >80= 4.0)?
 
CanV - Thanks for the detailed update on schools

SuperFish - 80 or higher is a 4.0? I dunno about that. It would be pretty unfair unless rest of Canada used that too. That would be amazing though cuz it means all our gpa's would be higher
 
AMCAS definitely converts 80 from Western and Queen's to 4.0, 79= 3.0 and 69=2.0, although I have no idea what world education or AACOMAS will do. AMCAS has a different conversion scale for each Canadian school (this is what they told me) because even if 2 schools both grade in percent (or 4.0 scale), the same grade at 2 schools isn't equivalent because they still have different scales (even if both reported in percent). For example, 80 from Western/Queen's= 87 at Calgary. Calgary gave me a scale when I asked about applying to their school, but I'm sorry that I can't find it right now.
Anyway, sorry I think what I said above is confusing. I don't understand why we can't all just be on one scale.
I only just found out about D.O. programs yesterday, so I'm just learning.
 
Oh and I think UBC might be on the same scale as Queen's/Western
 
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SuperFish said:
Oh and I think UBC might be on the same scale as Queen's/Western
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NO WAY:D i hope u are right! We dont use GPA though, we just have % and letter grade. We use this:

A+ = 90+
A = 85-90
A- = 80-84
B+ = 76-79
B = 72-75

etc

If they convert using % instead and 80 is an A, that would be amazing
 
Does anyone understand how to apply to DMU? When i clicked on the link on their website, it seems they want us to apply generally to their school (not osteopath) and fill out all these random visa forms etc?

Am i reading this wrong? thanks
 
I would suggest entering your percentage grade on the application and not your letter grade and maybe you'll get a nicer conversion :) . We actually don't get letter grades on our transcripts, but an 80 here is an A not an A-. I hope it all works out nice for you! Although I have no idea what AACOMAS does.
 
BlueJaysFan said:
For all the Canadians planning on pursuing the DO route, I am curious, what are your future plans, to stay in the states or return to Canada? Based on your experiences or talks with local docs, do you feel it will be feasible to obtain residency in Canada or will the bias of program directors be too much. I think it it awesome that CARMs allows DOs to match in the first iteration in Ont/BC, I just hope Canadian DOs are able to do so!!
Click to expand...

I 'plan' on coming back to Canada. Although, I think Canadians in general are very conservative and less open minded than our counterparts to the south. To illustrate, I spoke to my family doc and he has no idea what osteopathy even is?!?! On the other hand, osteopathy (OMT only practice) is very much alive and well in Quebec, but I do not know a soul who practices osteopathic medicine. But who cares! A doctor, is a doctor, is a doctor. When was the last time you asked a physician what degree they had or where they graduated, or what their board scores were like? I'm guessing never.

Ayway, I emailed UBC a few years back (yes, I've been in the game for a while) about DO applicant stats to R1 (residency) and the rep said she had no clue...never been exposed to them. Apparently, that was the first year DO's were being accepted to R1.

Anywho, she consulted with her superiors and wrote me back:

"Graduates of US Osteopathic Medicine Colleges are not considerate international medical graduates and there are no restrictions on what specialties one can apply to."

So there is hope in BC. Things look good in Ontario as well as DO grads are deemed equivalent to CMG's (canadian medical graduates). As for Alberta, we would have to go through AIMG (a rigorous selection process with no guarantee of acceptance to R1 in Alberta). Plus, to qualify, you have to be an Albertan resident (count me out). This info is on the CARMS website. Finally, forget about coming to Quebec as you will have to pass a french fluency test, which, if you are not fluent, I hear is a biatch to pass. I read an article in the Montreal Gazette about a gringo (american) dental student that graduated from McGill and failed the french test x 3! She had to set up her practice just across the border in plattsburgh or some shiite like that and commute everyday, as she lived in Montreal.

Seeing as there are not many canadian DO's graduating since not many matriculate into DO schools, there is minimal 'competition' for spots on this front. Also, only ~20 US med grads apply to CARMS each year (last I checked), so not much competition there either. Plus, BC and Ontario have shown very open minds in accepting DO grads, but of course, this on paper. In the end, what determines getting a residency in BC/Ontario are your LOR's, key rotation grades and board scores (USMLE and/or MCCQE). I think that your numbers will speak for themselves. Of course, acing the interview with the program director(s) always helps :thumbup:. Listen, I don't know much, but all I can relay is the little info I've gathered over the years. Can you come back to Canada? With an American DO degree, definitely. Apparently this one dude on SDN (or valuemd) completed family prac residency in Ontario a few years back. The COA (canadian osteopathic association) also told me that there are a few osteopathic physicians practicing in Quebec:

"While the COA is aware of a couple of osteopathic physicians practicing in Quebec, they are not COA members and we do not have their contact information"

So Will you come back to Canada? That depends on your motivation and will to succeed. Just take it one step at a time. If you truly want it, you will get there.
 
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drctother said:
Does anyone understand how to apply to DMU? When i clicked on the link on their website, it seems they want us to apply generally to their school (not osteopath) and fill out all these random visa forms etc?

Am i reading this wrong? thanks
Click to expand...

Taken from DMU website: (http://www.dmu.edu/prospective_students/international_students/)

If you are an international student not currently in the U.S., follow these steps:
  • Apply to Des Moines University using the appropriate application process
Which means use AACOMAS for DO applicants.

  • Complete the SAIS form and submit it to the DMU Enrollment Office.
This form is to be sent to DMU directly.
  • Provide documentation of professional licensure/practice privileges for your chosen profession in your country of citizenship.
This form must also be sent directly to DMU
 
SuperFish said:
I would suggest entering your percentage grade on the application and not your letter grade and maybe you'll get a nicer conversion :) . We actually don't get letter grades on our transcripts, but an 80 here is an A not an A-. I hope it all works out nice for you! Although I have no idea what AACOMAS does.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, interesting. I think the letter grade would be your best bet since it's less open to interpretation. That is, at McGill an A=85+ and all that is recorded on the transcript is an 'A' and AMCAS/AACOMAS has no choice but to give you a 4.0 for GPA calculation purposes, regardless of whether the grade was 90 or 85. Also, 80-84% is an "A-" and so for GPA purposes, that person should get a 3.7 since again, only the letter grade is recorded on the transcript. On the other hand, if 80% is recorded on your transcript, that may be interpreted by AACOMAS as an 'A-' even though western uses 80% as an 'A'. Dunno, but from what I understand, AMCAS takes into account which canadian school you attended most of the time, although I have read of some applicants being given lower GPA's after verification. Who the heck knows how AACOMAS works?!?!

Here's the AMCAS conversion table on the bottom of page 4, just FYI.
http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/advisors/2010conversionguide.pdf
 

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Sweet thanks for the help ManUnderfire

Have you guys sent your transcripts in yet? Im gonna be heading to my school tomorrow and my college to get transcripts mailed to World Education Services in New York for conversion. $250 after having one sent to me for verifying! Not exactly cheap lol

AND i have to send another one once my OCHEM 2 retake is done at end of August.

$$$$ haha
 
drctother said:
Sweet thanks for the help ManUnderfire

Have you guys sent your transcripts in yet? Im gonna be heading to my school tomorrow and my college to get transcripts mailed to World Education Services in New York for conversion. $250 after having one sent to me for verifying! Not exactly cheap lol

AND i have to send another one once my OCHEM 2 retake is done at end of August.

$$$$ haha
Click to expand...

Mine should be there by next week and will submit asap. I don't know if i am getting the evaluation done just for PCOM. So, among us canadians, has anyone submitted and been verified yet?
 
ManUnderFire said:
I 'plan' on coming back to Canada. Although, I think Canadians in general are very conservative and less open minded than our counterparts to the south. To illustrate, I spoke to my family doc and he has no idea what osteopathy even is?!?! On the other hand, osteopathy (OMT only practice) is very much alive and well in Quebec, but I do not know a soul who practices osteopathic medicine. But who cares! A doctor, is a doctor, is a doctor. When was the last time you asked a physician what degree they had or where they graduated, or what their board scores were like? I'm guessing never.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help manunderfire!

Thanks for putting your school list up CanV :thumbup:
 
ManUnderFire said:
Hmmm, interesting. I think the letter grade would be your best bet since it's less open to interpretation. That is, at McGill an A=85+ and all that is recorded on the transcript is an 'A' and AMCAS/AACOMAS has no choice but to give you a 4.0 for GPA calculation purposes, regardless of whether the grade was 90 or 85. Also, 80-84% is an "A-" and so for GPA purposes, that person should get a 3.7 since again, only the letter grade is recorded on the transcript. On the other hand, if 80% is recorded on your transcript, that may be interpreted by AACOMAS as an 'A-' even though western uses 80% as an 'A'. Dunno, but from what I understand, AMCAS takes into account which canadian school you attended most of the time, although I have read of some applicants being given lower GPA's after verification. Who the heck knows how AACOMAS works?!?!

Here's the AMCAS conversion table on the bottom of page 4, just FYI.
http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/advisors/2010conversionguide.pdf
Click to expand...

I'm glad to help :) and as for this GPA conversion thing, here's a link to the GPA conversion chart of all Canadian Universities if you wanted to compare which marks from which schools gets you a 4.0. The AACOMAS conversion is in favour of us where A=4.0 instead of A+/90%=4.0 so I'd stick to the AACOMAS grading conversion scale.

http://careers.mcmaster.ca/students/education-planning/virtual-resources/gpa-conversion-chart
 
jaywalk said:
Thanks for your help manunderfire!

Thanks for putting your school list up CanV :thumbup:
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Hey JayWalk, did you end up doing the WES evaluations when you applied? Have you submitted your primary? If so, are any of the schools asking you to verify certain courses/labs/other issues?
 
CanV said:
Hey JayWalk, did you end up doing the WES evaluations when you applied? Have you submitted your primary? If so, are any of the schools asking you to verify certain courses/labs/other issues?
Click to expand...

My transcript is going in on Friday so, i'll submit by next week hopefully. Everything else is ready to go.

I did not need a WES evaluation since my school is on a 4.0 scale. But i had emailed pcom and asked them about them taking canadians, they said you need a wes. I don't feel like dishing out 200$ per transcript :( for just one school
 
jaywalk said:
My transcript is going in on Friday so, i'll submit by next week hopefully. Everything else is ready to go.

I did not need a WES evaluation since my school is on a 4.0 scale. But i had emailed pcom and asked them about them taking canadians, they said you need a wes. I don't feel like dishing out 200$ per transcript :( for just one school
Click to expand...

What about the semester hour discrepancy? Do you have semester hours or just units? I have units... I have a feeling this is going to cause me problems with verification since they ask for labs in the prereqs.
 
CanV said:
What about the semester hour discrepancy? Do you have semester hours or just units? I have units... I have a feeling this is going to cause me problems with verification since they ask for labs in the prereqs.
Click to expand...

Hmm i had asked my registrar about this when i was filling out the app. She was like put in 3 for semester hours of all UofC courses

that is what i did. Well i'm gonna submit and see what happens
 
jaywalk said:
Hmm i had asked my registrar about this when i was filling out the app. She was like put in 3 for semester hours of all UofC courses

that is what i did. Well i'm gonna submit and see what happens
Click to expand...


thanks for the info jaywalk :)
 
Thanks!

Some of the schools I talked to said that we need the wes if we're from canada regardless of which school we're from. Nova and Western-Pacific (COMP?) off the top of my head. But it doesn't cost $200 per transcript that you have, its for an entire evaluation so even if you have 3 like I have, it will still be 200$
 
Wow there seems to be so much interest in DO this year in Canadians over past years that I have seen this forum. Again, I am very much for the DO route for Canadians but just curious for those applying this year, why the sudden interest in DO over Ireland/Carrib? Just really curious, but happy to see the interest!!
 
Kingstonhopeful said:
Wow there seems to be so much interest in DO this year in Canadians over past years that I have seen this forum. Again, I am very much for the DO route for Canadians but just curious for those applying this year, why the sudden interest in DO over Ireland/Carrib? Just really curious, but happy to see the interest!!
Click to expand...

closer to home...in terms of culture and distance. Also, you can still have an OMT only practice in Canada if the med part of your degree does u no service in terms of getting into a residency (expensive decision, though). That is of course, if you feel inclined to remain north of the 49th. Finally, if you're adventurous enough to remain in the US you would be on equal ground (more or less) with US MD grads for US residency spots, at least for the non-highly coveted positions. I think that sums it up.

The overwhelming initial reasons for 'choosing' DO is b/c of grade replacement, the fact that it is unreasonably hard to get into med school in Canada, and as internationals applying to US MD schools, canucks have odds of entering that are only slightly better than here in Canada.

However, life is not without its irony. Imagine, someone like myself who started off thinking osteopathy was all hocus-pocus and over time becoming a strong advocate for it. I suppose the artsy side of me wants to believe that anecdotes and personal accounts are evidence enough of its efficacy. And in a time of double-blinded, randomized, control trials with significance levels, ANOVAs and p-values, sometimes all I care about hearing is "it worked for me". Hopefully, osteopathy is heading in the direction of sophisticated trials to confirm its usefulness, but I'll be happy helping people with my hands in the mean time, whenever that may be :)
 
SuperFish said:
Thanks!

Some of the schools I talked to said that we need the wes if we're from canada regardless of which school we're from. Nova and Western-Pacific (COMP?) off the top of my head. But it doesn't cost $200 per transcript that you have, its for an entire evaluation so even if you have 3 like I have, it will still be 200$
Click to expand...

Thanks for that info superfish :) I have two transcripts as well. I thought it was 200 per transscript.

Also for western, their website says that coursework from canada is acceptable.

"All coursework taken from non-US institutions (excluding Canada) must be submitted to an approved service for evaluation"

This was directly taken from http://prospective.westernu.edu/osteopathic/requirements in the important information column
 
jaywalk said:
My transcript is going in on Friday so, i'll submit by next week hopefully. Everything else is ready to go.

I did not need a WES evaluation since my school is on a 4.0 scale. But i had emailed pcom and asked them about them taking canadians, they said you need a wes. I don't feel like dishing out 200$ per transcript :( for just one school
Click to expand...

Aside from PCOM, do any other schools require an evaluation for Canadian students? I know Nova does on their website, but I emailed them about it and should get a response soon.
 
Is anyone aware of whether or not the Canadian Osteopathic Association is in talks to make the CARMs provincial eligibility expanded from Ont/BC to other provinces in Canada?

Thanks
 
ManUnderFire said:
Aside from PCOM, do any other schools require an evaluation for Canadian students? I know Nova does on their website, but I emailed them about it and should get a response soon.
Click to expand...

Just confirming that Nova (NSUCOM) requires a WES evaluation.

So these schools require WES evals:

PCOM
NSUCOM (send WES to school and AACOMAS)
WUHS-COMP
 
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ManUnderFire said:
Just confirming that Nova (NSUCOM) requires a WES evaluation.

So these schools require WES evals:

PCOM
NSUCOM
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update!:)

I just sent my stuff to WES Wednesday

Even though im a day late, HAPPY CANADA DAY!!!!
 
drctother said:
Thanks for the update!:)

I just sent my stuff to WES Wednesday

Even though im a day late, HAPPY CANADA DAY!!!!
Click to expand...

So do we have to send wes our stuff and then have wes send it to aacomas? or since I am on a 4.0 scale. Can i submit my app next week since its ready to go and then send pcom and nova a wes evaluation?
Do you guys think this would be okay?
 
enmeds said:
Is anyone aware of whether or not the Canadian Osteopathic Association is in talks to make the CARMs provincial eligibility expanded from Ont/BC to other provinces in Canada?

Thanks
Click to expand...

i don't think they are. But seriously don't expect provoinces like sask, manitoba, and those eastern maritime provinces to let DO students in. Heck, i have been working in the OR for about 2 years now and know the head of surgery fairly well. Most docs are like its tough to get into residency at UC or UofA if you go to US schools (DO or MD). That being said it happens but very rarely. If you can't do an elective at a canadian institution forget about getting a residency there.

If you are going to a DO school, an ACGME rez after medical school is the safest bet. We are all going into med schools with a chip on our shoulders. Admit it, we can't get into medical schools in canada, that's the reason why we are going to US. To get a canadian residency, you need to be able to set up electives in canada (specially ON or BC). Work your ass off more than any canadian med student will and make the PD believe that you are the best there will be for all the positions you'll be applying to.
 
jaywalk said:
So do we have to send wes our stuff and then have wes send it to aacomas? or since I am on a 4.0 scale. Can i submit my app next week since its ready to go and then send pcom and nova a wes evaluation?
Do you guys think this would be okay?
Click to expand...

Ya I dont see why there would be a problem with submitting transcripts directly to AACOMAS and then for PCOM + Nova going through WES. WES sends their evaluation of ur transcripts (and their conversion) to AACOMAS, who will then send it to those schools.

Its literally the stupidest thing I have ever heard of (money and ***TIME*** wasted), but it has to be done which sucks. It will put you back like $240 just to have the WES conversion too:(

If someone else can correct me, go ahead. Im not 100% sure yet just cuz I havent been confirmed etc for everything
 
drctother said:
Ya I dont see why there would be a problem with submitting transcripts directly to AACOMAS and then for PCOM + Nova going through WES. WES sends their evaluation of ur transcripts (and their conversion) to AACOMAS, who will then send it to those schools.

Its literally the stupidest thing I have ever heard of (money and ***TIME*** wasted), but it has to be done which sucks. It will put you back like $240 just to have the WES conversion too:(

If someone else can correct me, go ahead. Im not 100% sure yet just cuz I havent been confirmed etc for everything
Click to expand...

I know this stuff is so stupid to go through. What a waste of 250$ :(

but thanks for your response drc. I think i'll just go ahead and do that. Getting verified right now is more important than anything else.
 
I emailed Western Pacific and they said all Canadians need the WES and you can send it to AACOMAS, you don't need to send it directly to the school. But Nova said that they require you to send the WES to both AACOMAS as well as to them.
 
Which WES package did you guys order? The basic one or the other one that includes a copy of your transcripts sent with the evaluation?
 
I believe i ordered the basic. It says "course-by-course evaluation"

Dam it i guess i will have to update my WES and request a copy sent to NOVA and PCOM

Anyone know if any other schools require u also send a copy directly to them plus AACOMAS?
 
Oh also are you guys using Interfolio for reference letters? Just wondering how much it costs? thanks
 
Interfolio costs around 20$ for a membership and then 6$ I believe to send each letter to each school.
 
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