Do generic LOR's keep good students out?

[753698]

By good student I mean 3.8-4.0 GPA and 22+AA, decent EC's

Will all generic LOR's keep them out of dental school or are LOR's something that can boost an application but not necessarily ruin it? Are good grades enough to overcome unimpressive LOR's?

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[pinwheeels]

I have no idea how LOR’s are weighed to our apps. I had excellent LOR’s written by my dentist and professors, and never heard anything brought up about them by any school. They were too busy looking at my own stats. However, I’d imagine if it came down to a tiebreaker or a committee is on the fence, they might pull out those LOR’s to make a final judgement to see how well this applicant actually gets along with peers and faculty. I would be highly interested to know how much of a factor my LOR’s played in helping me or if they were just to check off a task list that we could achieve?

 

[753698]

I have no idea how LOR’s are weighed to our apps. I had excellent LOR’s written by my dentist and professors, and never heard anything brought up about them by any school. They were too busy looking at my own stats. However, I’d imagine if it came down to a tiebreaker or a committee is on the fence, they might pull out those LOR’s to make a final judgement to see how well this applicant actually gets along with peers and faculty. I would be highly interested to know how much of a factor my LOR’s played in helping me or if they were just to check off a task list that we could achieve?

Realistically though, in your opinion, a top student should be able to squeak into atleast 1 school if he/she applies broadly even if they have average/below average LOR's?
I understand that LOR's are generally seen as tiebreakers, but a student with a 4.0 and 22+ AA shouldn't have to worry about tie breakers right?

I saw a post on the pre-med forum that during the process, the GPA and MCAT were weighted heavily for handing out interviews, but after the interview the main factors towards admission were the interview itself and the LOR's, and GPA and MCAT moved lower down the list.

Does this mean that a top student will get a bunch of interviews, but never get accepted because their LOR's didn't impress?

 

[macsak]

Realistically though, in your opinion, a top student should be able to squeak into atleast 1 school if he/she applies broadly even if they have average/below average LOR's?
I understand that LOR's are generally seen as tiebreakers, but a student with a 4.0 and 22+ AA shouldn't have to worry about tie breakers right?

I saw a post on the pre-med forum that during the process, the GPA and MCAT were weighted heavily for handing out interviews, but after the interview the main factors towards admission were the interview itself and the LOR's, and GPA and MCAT moved lower down the list.

Does this mean that a top student will get a bunch of interviews, but never get accepted because their LOR's didn't impress?

why not just get better LORs rather than worry about how an average/below average LOR will affect you?

 

[753698]

why not just get better LORs rather than worry about how an average/below average LOR will affect you?

I'm not really sure how I will. I'm at a large Uni where my core bio class for example had 700+ students, mostly full of pre meds. I'm pretty sure the professor just uses a template to write LOR's.
I will be getting a letter from my OChem professor, but it will be because I got a high A in the class. Professor doesn't really know who I am. I will definitely make an effort to meet and tell professor about myself and my future plans, but it won't be the same LOR as many on SDN seem to get.

It seems like everyone on SDN formed a spiritual relationship with their professors, went over for dinner, shared personal stories with their professors etc. No way will I ever get a LOR that personal. The best LOR I can hope for is "Mr. Muscles is a really good student who got an A+ in my class." I hope maybe from my conversation and personal statement they can know more about me as a person.

 

[2TH MVR]

I agree with the poster who mentioned LORs as a tiebreaker .... at best. Lets be realistic. How many LORs are truly100% representative of the student? I can just imagine the adcoms reading over the letters. SAME letters with the SAME message over and over and over. Best LOR are from individuals with some ties with the DS. Alumni, etc.

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

Mr. Muscles you gotta chill fam. Between this thread and your other one about p/f schools and oms I've got the feeling you're a very anxious person. Focus on what you can control and don't worry about what you can't.

I'm just going to go out on a limb and guess your grades are fine and that you'll do well on the DAT. Plenty of people get into school with worse stats and generic letters. The application process isn't something we have complete control over so there is no need to stress.

 

[753698]

Mr. Muscles you gotta chill fam. Between this thread and your other one about p/f schools and oms I've got the feeling you're a very anxious person. Focus on what you can control and don't worry about what you can't.

I'm just going to go out on a limb and guess your grades are fine and that you'll do well on the DAT. Plenty of people get into school with worse stats and generic letters. The application process isn't something we have complete control over so there is no need to stress.

You;re right I'm an anxious person haha
I need to relax.

I just get really restless thinking about these things because I don't want my hard work to go to waste because I couldn't impress the adcoms enough with my letters.

 

[Let me out!]

I'm sure the LOR will matter to a certain extent especially since the grades alone don't fully reflect a student.

But at the same time, if you didn't make the effort to get a great letter from the professor, you don't deserve a great letter. You said it yourself; professors don't know you. They can't write about you if they don't know you.

I worked as an adjunct for 6 years writing many letters and also communicated with higher end professors in regards to writing letters. If you don't make the effort to get yourself known to the professors throughout the semester, you are not going to get a great letter. As a matter of fact, we can either only write a generic letter since we don't know much about you (being nice and you are lucky), or not write one at all. The quality of letters change for students who have frequently visited for chats, help, etc compared to students who I have never cared, seen, or chatted with. I would write an amazing letter for a B student who I know a lot about compared to an A student who I know nothing about besides the grade.

As above replies said, however, if your grades are much higher than the average, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[753698]

I'm sure the LOR will matter to a certain extent especially since the grades alone don't fully reflect a student.

But at the same time, if you didn't make the effort to get a great letter from the professor, you don't deserve a great letter. You said it yourself; professors don't know you. They can't write about you if they don't know you.

I worked as an adjunct for 6 years writing many letters and also communicated with higher end professors in regards to writing letters. If you don't make the effort to get yourself known to the professors throughout the semester, you are not going to get a great letter. As a matter of fact, we can either only write a generic letter since we don't know much about you (being nice and you are lucky), or not write one at all. The quality of letters change for students who have frequently visited for chats, help, etc compared to students who I have never cared, seen, or chatted with. I would write an amazing letter for a B student who I know a lot about compared to an A student who I know nothing about besides the grade.

As above replies said, however, if your grades are much higher than the average, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Here's my dilemma, the office hours for my professors are usually atleast 10 students full if not more. Most of them come to ask questions about the course material. I've never really had a moment yet where I've gotten stuck to the point I need to ask the professor, so I figured I would just be a waste of space in that office hour room, right? I also can't strike up a convo because of the amount of students in the room. What would be a good way to approach this situation? I still have 1 year and this semester before I apply. I'm hoping that next year I can get in some smaller upper level bio classes so I can get atleast 1 professor to acknowledge me.
Right now my professors would only know my name because I've gotten the top score on their exams and they usually take note of that. I definitely need to find a way to make sure they can put a face/person to that name.

 

[956139]

Here's my dilemma, the office hours for my professors are usually atleast 10 students full if not more. Most of them come to ask questions about the course material. I've never really had a moment yet where I've gotten stuck to the point I need to ask the professor, so I figured I would just be a waste of space in that office hour room, right? I also can't strike up a convo because of the amount of students in the room. What would be a good way to approach this situation? I still have 1 year and this semester before I apply. I'm hoping that next year I can get in some smaller upper level bio classes so I can get atleast 1 professor to acknowledge me.
Right now my professors would only know my name because I've gotten the top score on their exams and they usually take note of that. I definitely need to find a way to make sure they can put a face/person to that name.

Dude
Stop it. Stop overthinking. Just talk to your professors, it's not rocket science

 

[ESPN907]

I had an admissions committee member come up to me randomly during the interview day and let me know he thought I had some of the strongest letters he had read this cycle...on December 1st I was waitlisted at that school lol not sure if that helps you but it might give you an idea that there are many factors that go into getting accepted

 

[753698]

I had an admissions committee member come up to me randomly during the interview day and let me know he thought I had some of the strongest letters he had read this cycle...on December 1st I was waitlisted at that school lol not sure if that helps you but it might give you an idea that there are many factors that go into getting accepted

Did you think your interview went well?

 

[macsak]

Here's my dilemma, the office hours for my professors are usually atleast 10 students full if not more. Most of them come to ask questions about the course material. I've never really had a moment yet where I've gotten stuck to the point I need to ask the professor, so I figured I would just be a waste of space in that office hour room, right? I also can't strike up a convo because of the amount of students in the room. What would be a good way to approach this situation? I still have 1 year and this semester before I apply. I'm hoping that next year I can get in some smaller upper level bio classes so I can get atleast 1 professor to acknowledge me.
Right now my professors would only know my name because I've gotten the top score on their exams and they usually take note of that. I definitely need to find a way to make sure they can put a face/person to that name.

dude, you're not applying until june 2021?
you need to get off of SDN and go fishing
and figure out how to handle things better
I can't imagine how you are going to be when you are actually in the application cycle or in dental school

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

you need to get off of SDN and go fishing

I'm dying. This guy better get an award for how many posts he is making.

 

[753698]

dude, you're not applying until june 2021?
you need to get off of SDN and go fishing
and figure out how to handle things better
I can't imagine how you are going to be when you are actually in the application cycle or in dental school

I’m applying in a year lol I want to apply on the first day possible so I want my app to be ready before then

 

[Let me out!]

Here's my dilemma, the office hours for my professors are usually atleast 10 students full if not more. Most of them come to ask questions about the course material. I've never really had a moment yet where I've gotten stuck to the point I need to ask the professor, so I figured I would just be a waste of space in that office hour room, right? I also can't strike up a convo because of the amount of students in the room. What would be a good way to approach this situation? I still have 1 year and this semester before I apply. I'm hoping that next year I can get in some smaller upper level bio classes so I can get atleast 1 professor to acknowledge me.
Right now my professors would only know my name because I've gotten the top score on their exams and they usually take note of that. I definitely need to find a way to make sure they can put a face/person to that name.

See, that's not just your dilemma, but every student who is looking for a letter. I figure that many of the students who are there seeking for "help" are also looking for a letter in the near future. They are doing it. Why not you? See, you don't immediately start your conversation by asking for a letter. That purpose can be expressed later, and I mean way later. I get annoyed as hell when an unfamiliar student approaches asking for a letter to start off. Get to know the professor. Have the professor know about you. It's not that difficult. Brainstorm. What can you do to get to know each other? You don't have to end the relationship by the end of the course. I find that writing a letter for a student after knowing the student for years come out much better for the student than a letter for a student after knowing for one semester.

No time? Fine. Send an email to the professor if they would be available any time outside of the office hour. Most likely they are. That would be a one-to-one session with the professor.

And... as others have said... relax. Seriously. Calm. Down. You have enough time. You hung around in this forum enough to know what you need. Spend the time to think on how you can improve yourself.

 

[macsak]

See, that's not just your dilemma, but every student who is looking for a letter. I figure that many of the students who are there seeking for "help" are also looking for a letter in the near future. They are doing it. Why not you? See, you don't immediately start your conversation by asking for a letter. That purpose can be expressed later, and I mean way later. I get annoyed as hell when an unfamiliar student approaches asking for a letter to start off. Get to know the professor. Have the professor know about you. It's not that difficult. Brainstorm. What can you do to get to know each other? You don't have to end the relationship by the end of the course. I find that writing a letter for a student after knowing the student for years come out much better for the student than a letter for a student after knowing for one semester.

No time? Fine. Send an email to the professor if they would be available any time outside of the office hour. Most likely they are. That would be a one-to-one session with the professor.

And... as others have said... relax. Seriously. Calm. Down. You have enough time. You hung around in this forum enough to know what you need. Spend the time to think on how you can improve yourself.

this has already been explained to him in a thread that he started...

 

[Let me out!]

this has already been explained to him in a thread that he started...

 

[DiscoverWeakly]

The way I view the LOR’s is this... they’re simply a supplement. If you have wonderful stats and do well in the interview, you’ll be fine! If it’s close, that’s when the LOR’s will come into play.

Granted, this is coming from someone who will be applying this cycle. But this reflects my experience interviewing applicants in the business world. A good resume can get an interview, but then the resume becomes a little less important as the interview will show if it’s a good fit. Finally, if the position comes down to two people, I’ll reach out to references. Same idea... I think? Ha

 

[ESPN907]

Did you think your interview went well?

Yeah, it went well! The school is pretty competitive for OOS so I wasn’t surprised