Do I have a realistic chance at top/good private universities with ZERO research experience?

[OfMiceAndWomen]

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This is brilliant, thank you so much! I will speak to the LGBT studies and Russian studies depts to see about this. I would actually love to do this and feel it can be hypothesis-driven.

You're welcome! Also, definitely seek out clinical experiences that are meaningful to you and that you can talk about. Best of luck 🙂

I think it's good that you're aiming high, especially earlier on when you have time to do things. Even if you don't necessarily end up at the tippy-top schools, you will have done things that are impressive to other schools. "Aim for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll be among the stars."

You should re-evaluate / manage your expectations once you've taken the MCAT and/or are one year out from applying.

 

[Goro]

Thank you for your honesty. I never claimed that my orderly job is clinical; I do not think it is. I would love to interact with conscious patients. It is the scientific research that was giving me trepidation. Does me not finding interest in lab research make me seem like I do not understand medicine? Or was it something else I said? My obsession with the top schools is to help me achieve higher; I am very goal oriented. I was hoping to get a list of goals that I should achieve the next few years to help me have a chance for admissions at any medical school and the best way to do that was, in my mind, to ask for what is needed for the best of the best. Again, I do not have a pre-med advisor so I am left to online for input. I think this thread has given me those goals I need! 🙂

I would like to see that you know what you're getting into and that you're really want to be around sick and injured people for the next 30-40 years. A surgical orderly. with all due deference to my young colleague Grey, is not ordinarily around conscious patients. Not all patients are nice people. But you need to get those interactive skills, and prove that you have them

Thank you. Do you think, in terms of research, if I find bioethics/philosophy research I may accomplish those goals? I can hopefully become familiar with the lab techniques through my Ochem/Bio labs required for pre-med, and then the analysis and data/scientific method through humanities research.

You could go study seals in Lake Baikal. It doesn't matter, as long as you are learning about the scientific method.
well this is just pitiful; it is exactly what I needed. Thank you all! I am so glad I learned how I come across before my potential Icahn interview, imagine how embarrassing that would be.

@Goro and @LizzyM you are the masterminds and have liked several comments indicating misunderstanding/miscommunication on my end (e.g. me not wanting to step beyond my comfort zone when I am asking to do whatever I can to help my unique schedule [the only thing I am not compromising is my half summer at Middlebury and year abroad, as well as more than 1 gap year, which leaves this full year, half of this summer, winter breaks, and the following 2 full years and summers], me not wanting to interact with conscious patients when I do but just have not done it yet, and a year as LGBT in Russia being a field trip that shows me having the means to travel rather than a genuine challenge, etc). May you add any input for me? I am sorry to pry, but anything is appreciated.

I (and others) are being harsh with you because in your OP you are coming across as someone who has never held or thrown a baseball, but yet is insisting that you only want to play for the Dodgers or Red Sox.

read this book:
Med School Rx: Getting In, Getting Through, and Getting On with Doctoring Original Edition by Walter Hartwig
ISBN-13: 978-1607140627
ISBN-10: 1607140624

 

[deleted480308]

Being LGBT in Russia (a developing country) with a language barrier for a full year meant more than a field trip to me. This is very disheartening to hear. Do you really think that it will just make me look privileged and lazy to admissions? It is much cheaper for me to study in Russia than where I am currently, flights included!

Yes, i think it’s a field trip and not as hard as research.

You do you

 

[candbgirl]

Just a FYI! You only need 50 hours of shadowing. A good amount should be with a primary care doc. So find a pediatrician to shadow!

 

[OfMiceAndWomen]

Yes, i think it’s a field trip and not as hard as research.

You do you

I'd disagree. This certainly varies case by case and not always true. Speaking as someone with 2+ yrs of research (and ongoing) + publication, my semester abroad was probably one of the most challenging experiences of my undergrad. A lot of people will report being a lab tech as doing research, but often they're just pipetting for someone else and not involved in any kind intellectual rigor.

Living in a foreign country (esp not a well-developed one), learning another language, engaging with people/community that is different culturally, is hard too. I don't know if it's any more or less hard than doing research, but it certainly develops skills one needs as a physician.

That being said, developing your own basic science project and getting a first author pub is definitely harder, but how many undergrads get to that level?

 

[coconutts]

Yes, i think it’s a field trip and not as hard as research.

You do you

Well I want in on whatever research that is! All the research opportunities I can find consist of pipetting until your fingers go blue. Perhaps it is due to the fact I go to a business school without a well established science department. I am curious if you have ever lived in a developing country for a year, and if you have, if your community was facing persecution in the respective country? If you are doing research that you find so challenging and intriguing that you attempt to minimize that experience as a "field trip" that one has the luxury to take, then I genuinely want to explore your field of research.

 

[coconutts]

I would like to see that you know what you're getting into and that you're really want to be around sick and injured people for the next 30-40 years. A surgical orderly. with all due deference to my young colleague Grey, is not ordinarily around conscious patients. Not all patients are nice people. But you need to get those interactive skills, and prove that you have them

I (and others) are being harsh with you because in your OP you are coming across as someone who has never held or thrown a baseball, but yet is insisting that you only want to play for the Dodgers or Red Sox.

Thank you for the book recommendation. I think you genuinely misunderstand my point as your analogy does not make sense. I never said I only want to go to UPenn, Yale, etc as you imply. I have said multiple times throughout this thread that I would be extremely happy going to any medical school in the US. I feel like that has to be repeated endlessly now as many people are making it seem as though I am somehow saying I am qualified to be a medical student at UPenn despite having absolutely no qualifications. I have not even taking the MCAT yet for goodness sakes.

And yes in regards to the clinical experience, I am excited to start volunteering with patients. I never tried to pass my orderly job off as something meaningful to patient interaction at all. I was making fun of my own lack of clinical experience and know that I must do that soon.

I do appreciate blunt honesty even if it comes across as harsh, however, I would prefer that the bluntness be directed towards the claims I am actually making and not based on assumptions and statements that I have never made.

 

[coconutts]

Just a FYI! You only need 50 hours of shadowing. A good amount should be with a primary care doc. So find a pediatrician to shadow!

I am currently reaching out to doctors at local Down syndrome clinics, but primary care is definitely more broad. Perhaps I can do a mix of both (if the doctors allow!).

 

[ciestar]

Well I want in on whatever research that is! All the research opportunities I can find consist of pipetting until your fingers go blue. Perhaps it is due to the fact I go to a business school without a well established science department. I am curious if you have ever lived in a developing country for a year, and if you have, if your community was facing persecution in the respective country? If you are doing research that you find so challenging and intriguing that you attempt to minimize that experience as a "field trip" that one has the luxury to take, then I genuinely want to explore your field of research.

I get where sb is coming from. Put it this way, I didn’t even have the means to travel ANYWHERE until a few years ago when i got married and my husband has a job that allows for this. You generally need to be in a place of privilege to do what you’re doing.

Do I think it is a field trip? No. You’re doing it for personal enrichment, which is absolutely fine, but it won’t make a huge difference in the grand scheme. The way I look at it, we’re only young once and you might as well take the opportunity while you can. Med schools aren’t going anywhere.

 

[deleted480308]

I'd disagree. This certainly varies case by case and not always true. Speaking as someone with 2+ yrs of research (and ongoing) + publication, my semester abroad was probably one of the most challenging experiences of my undergrad. A lot of people will report being a lab tech as doing research, but often they're just pipetting for someone else and not involved in any kind intellectual rigor.

Living in a foreign country (esp not a well-developed one), learning another language, engaging with people/community that is different culturally, is hard too. I don't know if it's any more or less hard than doing research, but it certainly develops skills one needs as a physician.

That being said, developing your own basic science project and getting a first author pub is definitely harder, but how many undergrads get to that level?

Sarcasm isn’t really my thing

You do you

 

[coconutts]

I did some more research and found the following bioethics research program: Biomedical Ethics Research Program - Post-Baccalaureate Research Assistantship . Thank you to @Lucca for providing the information for the NIH program. Both look similar although Mayo is one-year. I will see who is familiar with selectivity/unspoken requirements for these programs.

At first glance, a post-bac bioethics research fellowship kills many birds with one stone for me... I get the research experience (1), I have something to do for my gap-year (2), I am doing research I will enjoy I hope (3), I get to do my year abroad and summer of Russian study (4), and I do not have to pay for a post-bac degree, but instead am getting a stipend so I am employed before entering debt! (5)

SOPHOMORE(2) FALL/SPRING: Naval Hospital Volunteering at NICU, Community volunteering at Pride Center, Shadow physician 15 hours winter

POST-2 SUMMER: Shadow physician 30 hours, Hospice volunteering, Middlebury Language Programs 2 months, community volunteering camp for individuals with Down syndrome 2 weeks.

3 FALL/SPRING: Russian field-trip! Potential LGBT research. Community volunteering through Moscow U's Best Buddies.

POST-3 SUMMER: Continue hospice volunteering, community volunteering camp for individuals with DS,

4 FALL/SPRING: MCAT prep, med school apps. Leadership in my clubs (Russian club, business fraternity, Best Buddies, etc).

POST-4 SUMMER: Direct camp for individuals with DS hopefully at my university! If I cannot logistically bring it to my area then I can direct at East Coast location. Med school apps.

POST-BAC FALL/SPRING: Bioethics fellowship, save money, med school interviewing

POST POST THAT: Hopefully medical school in the US, if not then it is off to Siberia!

800+ hours DS volunteering, 50 hours LGBT community volunteering, 100-200 hours clinical volunteering, 50 hours shadowing, 1 full year of research

Does this sound like a good plan?

 

[bluepeony]

I did some more research and found the following bioethics research program: Biomedical Ethics Research Program - Post-Baccalaureate Research Assistantship . Thank you to @Lucca for providing the information for the NIH program. Both look similar although Mayo is one-year. I will see who is familiar with selectivity/unspoken requirements for these programs.

At first glance, a post-bac bioethics research fellowship kills three birds with one stone for me... I get the research experience (1), I have something to do for my gap-year (2), and I do not have to pay for a post-bac MS while getting a stipend so I am employed before entering debt! (3)

SOPHOMORE(2) FALL/SPRING: Naval Hospital Volunteering at NICU, Community volunteering at Pride Center, Shadow physician 15 hours winter

POST-2 SUMMER: Shadow physician 30 hours, Hospice volunteering, Middlebury Language Programs 2 months, community volunteering camp for individuals with Down syndrome 2 weeks.

3 FALL/SPRING: Russian field-trip! Potential LGBT research. Community volunteering through Moscow U's Best Buddies.

POST-3 SUMMER: Continue hospice volunteering, community volunteering camp for individuals with DS,

4 FALL/SPRING: MCAT prep, med school apps. Leadership in my clubs (Russian club, business fraternity, Best Buddies, etc).

POST-4 SUMMER: Direct camp for individuals with DS hopefully at my university! If I cannot logistically bring it to my area then I can direct at East Coast location. Med school apps.

POST-BAC FALL/SPRING: Bioethics fellowship, save money, med school interviewing

POST POST THAT: Hopefully medical school in the US, if not then it is off to Siberia!

800+ hours DS volunteering, 50 hours LGBT community volunteering, 100-200 hours clinical volunteering, 50 hours shadowing, 1 full year of research

Does this sound like a good plan?

I think you usually need some research experience to be accepted to the research fellowships.

 

[coconutts]

I think you usually need some research experience to be accepted to the research fellowships.

Yes, that would make sense wouldn't it? Back to the drawing board.

In all fairness website stated:

Successful applicants must be:

• Committed to pursuing a career in which they engage in topics in biomedical ethics
• Able to work independently
• Proficient in written and verbal communication
• Competent in identifying relevant peer-reviewed publications on specialized research topics
• Highly motivated to learn new research methods

I feel like if I did the LGBT studies research in Moscow, as well as demonstrate peer-reviewed publications type research which I do in my philosophy classes (not hypothesis-based) it could satisfy?

 

[bluepeony]

Yes, that would make sense wouldn't it? Back to the drawing board.

In all fairness website stated:

Successful applicants must be:

• Committed to pursuing a career in which they engage in topics in biomedical ethics
• Able to work independently
• Proficient in written and verbal communication
• Competent in identifying relevant peer-reviewed publications on specialized research topics
• Highly motivated to learn new research methods

I feel like if I did the LGBT studies research in Moscow, as well as demonstrate peer-reviewed publications type research which I do in my philosophy classes (not hypothesis-based) it could satisfy?

A lot of times, satisfying the minimum requirements listed does not mean you'll get the job/ fellowship in your case.

 

[ciestar]

A lot of times, satisfying the minimum requirements listed does not mean you'll get the job/ fellowship in your case.

I had a friend apply for an NIH fellowship.. like 100s of candidates for a handful of slots.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

No but saying your goal is to go to a top 10 medical school and in the same breath saying you don't want to do research is.

May be OP meant top 10 primary care schools 🙂

 

[bluepeony]

May be OP meant top 10 primary care schools 🙂

The schools he mentioned imply otherwise.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

May be OP meant top 10 primary care schools 🙂

OP listed the schools. They were not primary care focused.

That said, OP appears to now understand the naïveté of their early postings and has been receptive to the feedback provided.

 

[Sephirakra]

Well I want in on whatever research that is! All the research opportunities I can find consist of pipetting until your fingers go blue. Perhaps it is due to the fact I go to a business school without a well established science department. I am curious if you have ever lived in a developing country for a year, and if you have, if your community was facing persecution in the respective country? If you are doing research that you find so challenging and intriguing that you attempt to minimize that experience as a "field trip" that one has the luxury to take, then I genuinely want to explore your field of research.

That's the nature of getting involved in research: you have to start at the bottom to know how the sausage is made.

In regards to your second point: I HAVE lived abroad and conducted social science research in a non-Western country where my community was persecuted (though I can't stand that term). Don't cry foul when you haven't faced that oppression yet, and you'll be entering into it voluntarily. You won't face the same level of persecution as the locals, because you'll have the option to return home at any time.

I don't believe you're being disingenuous, but please spare us the righteous indignation for something that hasn't even happened yet.

 

[coconutts]

So I jumped the gun again on the NIH/Mayo fellowships, but I think that I am on the right track of considering some sort of implementation of interesting research in my gap year and year abroad. Thank you guys for providing input and advice, as defensive as I may seem; I am genuinely evaluating every comment made.

I think that I am coming to realize how much I have had this assumption within myself that I will get everything that I want without sacrifice. I am used to having a safety net and conjecture that no-matter what I do, I will end up getting something that I desire at the end of every situation. The "level A, B, and C medical schools" comment (I aim for level A and then at the worst go to C even though I am happy with C) is a perfect example of this. I aim for my level A dream, but if that does not work out then it is okay because I assume I will at least wander into my level C dream. That "level C" dream, however, is a stellar one that similarly requires hard work and sacrifice and will not be stumbled upon by mistake. Even more entitled than that, it feels as though I have believed I can make myself the hero of whichever story I decide to pursue (e.g. the oppressed gay in Russia even though I have not even set foot on Russian soil yet; thank you for calling me out on that @Sephirakra ).

I am coming to understand this error within myself. I must work for my dreams; the sea will not part for me wherever I walk and provide me with a straight path to my happy ending. It seems like I have expected this "parting of the sea" to happen, and even worse than that, I then expect for people to attribute the parting sea to my hard work and sacrifice, as absent as it may be. Me turning my lack of research/clinical experience into a five-year path that includes the presumptive acceptance into a competitive research fellowship despite me spending a few paragraphs complaining about bottom-level research is one of many examples I have come to realize illustrating this error.

Truly, thank you everyone; I have a lot to think about.

 

[coconutts]

The schools he mentioned imply otherwise.

To be honest, I googled "top 10 schools for surgery" and "top 10 schools for pediatrics" and combined the respective lists into my wishlist based on the campus architectures and locations. Maybe I should be a realtor? Jokes aside, I did mess up and understand that now.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Thank you. Would hospice volunteering be counted as clinical? It is not in a hospital per say, but it is with patients who are suffering.

Hospice volunteering is generally considered to be excellent clinical experience.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

If I were to fundraise for, organize for, and direct a camp here in California, would that be something that is stellar, or just another volunteer experience?

That would certainly not be a cookie-cutter volunteering activity and would show evidence of leadership. If you can get ~300 hours of real clinical experience in a hospice or similar plus a 520+ MCAT you are competitive for top-20 schools.

 

[candbgirl]

Well I want in on whatever research that is! All the research opportunities I can find consist of pipetting until your fingers go blue. Perhaps it is due to the fact I go to a business school without a well established science department. I am curious if you have ever lived in a developing country for a year, and if you have, if your community was facing persecution in the respective country? If you are doing research that you find so challenging and intriguing that you attempt to minimize that experience as a "field trip" that one has the luxury to take, then I genuinely want to explore your field of research.

Oh my goodness you just don’t stop. You have to start at the beginning in any lab. You have to learn the basics. As you gain skills and trust you move up. Doctoral students see your work and rec you to PIs and you join projects or maybe even get your own eventually. Doing scientific research can in no way compare to studying abroad for a year. Two totally different things. For a supposedly intelligent person, you are still laser focusing on what you want. You seem to be not listening to anyone who is an ADCOM or the people that have been through the process. Go to Russia. Have a wonderful time(I’ve been there. It is so beautiful and the regular people are kind and open.) when you get back, reassess where you are and hat you are ready to focus on next. Maybe it will be getting ready work on that med school application and maybe it won’t. Who knows.

 

[MyOdyssey]

@coconutts

1. Make sure you're getting mostly As in your classes. That has to take priority. Spending a year abroad will make that more difficult (especially when you're so against taking a gap year) because you will only have 3 years instead of 4 to complete all the science, math, humanities and social science requirements while also fulfilling your major and taking advanced Russian classes. If you haven't done well in the sciences previously, then you need to take the time to change that.

2. Scholarly social science research will help but to carry the same impact at the research heavy schools as science research you'll need to tie that in to their medical humanities or public health research programs.

3. You're likely to get better mentorship in science research by taking a research for credit class where the school forces the PI and student to come up with a research project that they want to jointly work on.

4. Set aside time to prepare for the MCAT. Spending a year abroad gives you less time to prepare.

 

[coconutts]

Oh my goodness you just don’t stop. You have to start at the beginning in any lab. You have to learn the basics. As you gain skills and trust you move up. Doctoral students see your work and rec you to PIs and you join projects or maybe even get your own eventually. Doing scientific research can in no way compare to studying abroad for a year. Two totally different things. For a supposedly intelligent person, you are still laser focusing on what you want. You seem to be not listening to anyone who is an ADCOM or the people that have been through the process. Go to Russia. Have a wonderful time(I’ve been there. It is so beautiful and the regular people are kind and open.) when you get back, reassess where you are and hat you are ready to focus on next. Maybe it will be getting ready work on that med school application and maybe it won’t. Who knows.

I am literally evaluating and taking EVERY comment made to heart. Look, I am trying my best here. I do not want to use Russia as a way to escape and then reassess. I am constantly reassessing and second guessing myself every single day. One of the things I am most looking forward to is visiting First Moscow State school of Medicine in Moscow. You may see that I am laser focused, but I have already adjusted my plan many times based in the feedback I have received. The things I refuse to adjust are: (1) Russia (2) Middlebury (3) DS volunteering and (4) MD in US. Earlier I said I will not adjust gap year but I have opened my mind to it.

I never claimed I was intelligent; I oftentimes doubt my abilities and view myself as someone who is not smart enough to pursue medicine. However, I have been trying to find a greater confidence in myself and allow myself to follow my dreams in spite of insecurity and uncertainty. Perhaps I overcompensated with oblivious confidence, but I know that I am better off now than I was when I was hiding in my room everyday refusing attend a single class or socialize in fear of failure. I am trying my best and understand I do not have this all together. Thank you for your input but this is not just a random career ambition I decided based on prestige.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Yeah. You seem quite stubborn and determined. Russia's no problem and might help you, especially if you get some social-science research on the LGBT community done while you're there. The Down Syndrome volunteering is also excellent; starting a camp for kids with Down's is going above and beyond as regards volunteerism. You do need more clinical experience; I'd recommend 200 hours of hospice work and another 100+ of work in a free clinic or hospital in the presence of physicians. As far as research: if you want to shoot for the top programs, it might be a good idea to have some science research. Keep your GPA where it is, get a 520 or better on the MCAT, and you should be a very strong applicant. Maybe top-20 material.

Good luck!

 

[mcat_taker]

My orderly job was not interacting with patients, your's seems like it was. So, mine is not clinical experience. That is all I know. I know pediatric surgery is a fellowship, I am just hoping to get exposed to pediatrics and GS in medical school clinical rotations. I do not like research when it comes to undergraduate lab work as that seems mundane to me and everyone who I have heard from hated their undergrad research in bio/chem/etc and said they did nothing, genuine research in a field of interest is different so I am not worried about that potential requirement. I am also not positive on my specialty as I have not even been accepted to med school yet.

And I also want to go to the Moon but I have not yet become an astronaut. I want a hot tub but do not have a backyard. It is okay to want things and not expect them. Me wanting to go to UPenn is not a demonstration of my hubris. That is a genuine misunderstanding in this thread.

You will get exposed to pediatrics and GS in every med school in the country as they are core clinical rotations. The reputation of those programs is largely irrelevant as a med student because in every clerkship at any med school in the country you will largely be learning the same things, i.e. the basics of general surgery and pediatrics. The information is a firehose and you will just be trying to keep up and learn as best you can for those quick 6-8 weeks you do it for. Pediatric surgery is a fellowship and largely irrelevant to worry about in terms of where to go to med school. Focus on getting into med school and doing well in med school.

Most GS applicants do away rotations-- that will be the best time for you to rotate at specific places you are interested in for residency that may be stronger in the field of your interest.

My 2 cents-- do the things you are passionate about, go to russia, do the language program. You only get 1 shot at college. At the end of the day your passions will shape how you look on paper and in interviews and they will either want that person or they won't. Don't do things just to check them off. Most important thing is grades and MCAT. Everything else can be adjusted later to make sure you are checking "the boxes". Lots of applicants take gap years. It is very common.

 

[coconutts]

UPDATED PLAN:

Year 2: Naval hospital volunteering (ward visiting; NICU cuddling) 48 hours; shadowing 50 hours; LGBT community center volunteering 30 hours; DS camp ambassador 50 hours; 4.00 GPA (GenChem2, CellBio, OrgasinimalBio, Biostats); 30 hours hospice volunteering
Summer 2: 70 hours hospice volunteering (running total 100); DS Camp (100 hours, total 400); Middlebury Language Programs; shadowing 10 hours (total 60)

Year 3: Russia; possible shadowing; possible LGBT research

Summer 3: DS camp assistant director/head counselor (300 hours, total 700); hospice volunteering 100 hours (running total 200); MCAT prep, take MCAT late July / Early August (IS THIS CORRECT TIMELINE FOR ONE GAP YEAR SOMEONE TELL ME PLEASE. No OChem, Biochem, or physics yet, that must be self-taught...).

Year 4: 4.00 GPA; Apply to med schools in spring; leadership in clubs (issue is, in this semester I am taking OChem1, Biochem, and physics1+2; so that will all have to be self taught for MCAT.)
Summer 4: DS camp director (1000+ hours total?); shadowing, hospice, idk

Gap year: Interviews. Leech off parents? No clue what I would do for a year with a philosophy degree I would like to be like a bartender or something in a fun city but that would probably not be favorable. More DS camp volunteering for sure, direct following summer again, go back to Russia after interview season perhaps. I need to think about this one but it is in a long while.

I am nervous now... I am taking the most important pre-reqs (Ochem, biochem) my senior year of college. Is there anyway to limit to one gap but take the MCAT with enough prep-time???

Please Icahn@MS accept me.....

 

[ciestar]

Self teaching that much of the mcat is such a bad idea

 

[candbgirl]

Your Summer 3 is nuts. You shouldn’t even attempt to self teach yourself three subjects(likely 5 courses) . In addition most people dedicate huge chunks of time over a few months for MCAT studying. When are you going to teach yourself the content? When are you going to studying for the MCAT? (Two very different tasks)?
What is the DS Camp you are spending thousands of hours working at?
You only need 50 hours total of shadowing. So if you manage to get your 50 hours this year you’ll be done (include primary care shadowing). Then you can move on to another activity.
I’m not even going to get into number of gap years.
Just remember you only want to take the MCAT one time and you only want to apply one time with the best application possible.

I just realized DS =Down Syndrome.

What does Icahn have to do with anything?

 

[Orangekiwi]

Self teaching that much of the mcat is such a bad idea

Cannot stress this enough OP, don't do this. Especially those classes. Biochemistry is almost like the backbone of the new MCAT, and Orgo 1 (and 2 in my opinion) is foundational to biochemistry. You won't have a good time if you try this, and you'll very likely get a non-competitive score

 

[coconutts]

Your Summer 3 is nuts. You shouldn’t even attempt to self teach yourself three subjects(likely 5 courses) . In addition most people dedicate huge chunks of time over a few months for MCAT studying. When are you going to teach yourself the content? When are you going to studying for the MCAT? (Two very different tasks)?
What is the DS Camp you are spending thousands of hours working at?
You only need 50 hours total of shadowing. So if you manage to get your 50 hours this year you’ll be done (include primary care shadowing). Then you can move on to another activity.
I’m not even going to get into number of gap years.
Just remember you only want to take the MCAT one time and you only want to apply one time with the best application possible.

I just realized DS =Down Syndrome.

What does Icahn have to do with anything?

Thank you. Icahn has an early assurance program for sophomores that I am applying to this year. If accepted, I do not have to take the MCAT or the pre-medical classes. If accepted I have a spot in their MD program contingent on if I maintain a 3.5+ GPA for undergrad which will not be an issue especially without the science classes.

 

[coconutts]

Cannot stress this enough OP, don't do this. Especially those classes. Biochemistry is almost like the backbone of the new MCAT, and Orgo 1 (and 2 in my opinion) is foundational to biochemistry. You won't have a good time if you try this, and you'll very likely get a non-competitive score

Okay so I guess it will be better to take it in July/August of the summer after my senior year. That means two gap years, right?

Summer after senior = MCAT
Spring after senior = apps
Summer/fall after that = secondaries, interviews, etc.
Potential acceptance that spring.

So, I need to accept that it if I take one full year in Russia it is two gap years.

 

[coconutts]

So I probably need a 1-2 year paid situation. NIH and Mayo bioethics fellowships look outstanding but they are likely competitive. NIH (https://www.bioethics.nih.gov/education/index.shtml), Mayo (Biomedical Ethics Research Program - Post-Baccalaureate Research Assistantship). Does anyone happen to know similar types of options?

 

[Bonne Nuit]

So, I need to accept that it if I take one full year in Russia it is two gap years.

Your study abroad year will put you a year behind, yes. Plan on taking as many gap years as you need to be the most competitive applicant possible.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. If you rush this (e.g., taking the MCAT before you're fully prepared), you could do serious damage to your application.

 

[coconutts]

Yes I understand that, it is just difficult with finances. I am a philosophy major, so there are not a ton of post-bac research/job opportunities. I just need to look into that and find temporary programs/jobs that excite me. The bioethics research fellowships are amazing but I do not know if I will be competitive.

 

[bluepeony]

Thank you. Icahn has an early assurance program for sophomores that I am applying to this year. If accepted, I do not have to take the MCAT or the pre-medical classes. If accepted I have a spot in their MD program contingent on if I maintain a 3.5+ GPA for undergrad which will not be an issue especially without the science classes.

Do not bank on getting into the Icahn early assurance program. It is very competitive.

 

[coconutts]

Do not bank on getting into the Icahn early assurance program. It is very competitive.

Oh I am not at all. I just said "please Icahn accept me" in a desperate manner because it would magically make these issues disappear. I would not be worried about all of this if I was banking on Icahn.

 

[coconutts]

Sorry to be asking so many questions here, but like I said, there is no pre-medical advisor available at my university as of now and I feel like there is a lot I need to do, but I do not know the most appropriate way to do some of these things. Does this letter look like a good letter to send to a physician to ask about shadowing? I really do not know the most professional way to ask. I would send similar letters to multiple physicians as I know sending to one does not guarantee a yes. This is what they would look like:

[Deleted due to error blanking, about to re-upload]

 

[coconutts]

Letter example; input very appreciated:

 

[coconutts]

I just changed "life of authenticity" to "pursuit of authenticity" as "life of" implies that I have succeeded in being fully authentic.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Letter example; input very appreciated:

View attachment 279825

Way, way over the top. Physicians don't have time to read all of that. They'll take one look at it and chuck it. It's also way too flowery.

Also don't send a letter and then tell them to email you. You need to just send them an email.

 

[coconutts]

Way, way over the top. Physicians don't have time to read all of that. They'll take one look at it and chuck it. It's also way too flowery.

Also don't send a letter and then tell them to email you. You need to just send them an email.

I cannot find their emails; they just have their addresses. I thought that I should give information about myself and why I wanted to shadow them because I know that they may get a lot of requests. Thank you for the advice I will work on making it shorter and search for their emails as well!

 

[Orangekiwi]

I cannot find their emails; they just have their addresses. I thought that I should give information about myself and why I wanted to shadow them because I know that they may get a lot of requests. Thank you for the advice I will work on making it shorter and search for their emails as well!

It should be less than a paragraph and emailed. Sending them a letter seems very strange to me, I don't know if it will be received well. All you need to say is something along the lines of "Hello Dr X, my name is coconutts and I'm a student at X university. I'm interested in pursuing medicine, and your work with down syndrome patients is something that I am passionate about and would like to observe in a clinical setting. If you have the time, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to shadow you. I return to the Bay Area X dates. I understand how busy your schedule as a physician is, but please let me know if this would be possible.

Thanks in advance, Coconutts"

make it sound a little better than that, but that's the idea

 

[coconutts]

Thank you all. I have found their emails and am doing a shorter writeup now. I am not sure what I was thinking... My business fraternity had us write lengthy requests for these type of things as practice so I may have gotten carried away. I truly appreciate the input! Thank you!

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thank you all. I have found their emails and am doing a shorter writeup now. I am not sure what I was thinking... My business fraternity had us write lengthy requests for these type of things as practice so I may have gotten carried away. I truly appreciate the input! Thank you!

I agree with the others. Your original letter was way too long and verbose.

Keep it short and sweet. And you should email.

 

[coconutts]

Good Evening Dr. X,

My name is coconutts and I am a student at University of X. I am interested in pursuing medicine, and your work with pediatric patients with Down syndrome is something that I am very passionate about and would like to observe in a clinical setting. If you have the time, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to shadow you. I understand how busy your schedule as a physician is, but please let me know if this is a possibility. I am in X for the entirety of the academic year aside from winter break.

If your schedule does not allow for shadowing, I fully understand and appreciate your consideration. If you would be kind enough to refer me to any opportunities to get more involved with the Down syndrome community in a more clinical setting, I would greatly appreciate it.

Best Regards,
coconutts

 

[MyOdyssey]

Good Evening Dr. X,

My name is coconutts and I am a student at University of X. I am interested in pursuing medicine, and your work with pediatric patients with Down syndrome is something that I am very passionate about and would like to observe in a clinical setting. If you have the time, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to shadow you. I understand how busy your schedule as a physician is, but please let me know if this is a possibility. I am in X for the entirety of the academic year aside from winter break.

If your schedule does not allow for shadowing, I fully understand and appreciate your consideration. If you would be kind enough to refer me to any opportunities to get more involved with the Down syndrome community in a more clinical setting, I would greatly appreciate it.

Best Regards,
coconutts

Just tell them the months you're available and times (presumably you won't skip class for this).

Avoid references to "academic year" and "winter break." (Why would these doctors know about the scheduling at your college?)

Otherwise, it looks good.

Also, ask family friends who are pediatricians/family medicine type doctors. They tend to act more favorably toward this.

 

[coconutts]

Haha I posted the letter on reddit as well and they thought I was trolling. Leave it to a philosophy student to be way too wordy and over-the-top! Thank god for the internet.