Do I need to retake an MCAT of 516 for a chance at the elite schools? Assume that everything else is above elite's acceptance average.
Do I need to retake an MCAT of 516 for a chance at the elite schools?
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No. A 516 is a 34-35ish and you should be fine with perhaps some top 20s, depending on the rest of your application (especially your GPA, research, clinical experience and leadership). Do not retake.
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Threads like these make me wonder how people like OP end up with a score of 516.
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There are schools like gyngyn's where you will not get an interview if you do something like this. There are certainly others where if this alone wont cause an outright rejection wont be looked upon favorably regardless of outcome.
You could probably count on one or two hands the number of schools this score might be perceived as on the lower side(ie a school like WashU where this is close to their 10th percentile) To that I would say.
a) Nobody should be specifically gunning for those 5 schools or so specifically to the point they do things that could be detrimental to their app at other schools
b) The types of schools with 38 median MCATs get way too many people who hit 38+ on their first attempt that somebody who needs multiple attempts to do so won't be looked at the same. In other words, you had your shot for them. If your score is considered slightly "low" for them, a retake isnt really going to magically correct things. What's done is done. There are obviosuly top 20 schools where hoards of people get accepted with a score like this every year.
c) Historically many more people who retake 35+ scores do worse or stay about the same on the retake than do they make an improvement by 3+ points.
You could probably count on one or two hands the number of schools this score might be perceived as on the lower side(ie a school like WashU where this is close to their 10th percentile) To that I would say.
a) Nobody should be specifically gunning for those 5 schools or so specifically to the point they do things that could be detrimental to their app at other schools
b) The types of schools with 38 median MCATs get way too many people who hit 38+ on their first attempt that somebody who needs multiple attempts to do so won't be looked at the same. In other words, you had your shot for them. If your score is considered slightly "low" for them, a retake isnt really going to magically correct things. What's done is done. There are obviosuly top 20 schools where hoards of people get accepted with a score like this every year.
c) Historically many more people who retake 35+ scores do worse or stay about the same on the retake than do they make an improvement by 3+ points.
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Don't retake, it's not worth - the score and the schools. There are a plethora of very elite institutions with lower medians than the stats-******.
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A 516 will put you at a slight disadvantage for most top schools, but retaking it will probably not help unless you can score a 522+ (meaning every practice test you take is scoring in the upper 520s) and even then the difference will be marginal at best. Plenty of people get into top schools with a 35. I would strongly recommend against a retake.
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A small disclaimer: based on what we've seen so far, no practice test besides the AAMC ones seem to predict anything with any sort of certainty.
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Here is my non-expert take after following along for a number of months and probing the "re-take" issue several times here.
The impulse to re-take is understandable, but actually doing so is not advisable. Why understandable? Well, you've explained why. You have a specific goal in mind....your score is tantalizing close to what you believe would make you more solidly competitive for your wish list....and you likely are fairly confident that you can score at least a few points higher. It seems that there are scores achieved, especially on first attempts, that trigger an impulse to re-take, and almost always the impulse to re-take is motivated by a desire to creep inside a realistic/optimal? range for a certain goal. The goals can range from gaining at least 1 US MD program to the range for a "mid-tier" to a range for a top 10-15. Using the new MCAT scoring, the scores that seem to trigger the impulse are 506-508 (sheer panic about gaining a single US MD admission), 508-510 (significant worry about gaining 1 or more US MD admits), 511-513 (feeling better but still not confident and thinking you are right on the wrong edge of being competitive as some highly desirable "mid-tiers"), and 514-516 (top 9 to top 5 percent which makes one potentially competitive for mid-tiers within shouting range and at least a shot at top tiers IF other aspects of the application are truly outstanding). Now certainly there may scorers in the 517-518 range who may be disappointed with their score if they were expecting 520+, but any impulses to re-take in this category most likely will be muted by awareness that 517/518 is good enough and risks for a re-take at that level are just too high.
So why not advisable? The only score range where I've seen re-takes recommended are for scorers in the 506-508 range (28 to low 30ish), and even then the advice is cautious with most advising applicants to hold off on applying long enough to increase the chances that a re-take will actually yield a significant to substantial improvement. The next range, 508-510, gets more dicey and seems to be more of a grey area. And you will hardly ever see anyone advised to re-take a 511+ (31+). It's possible that the advice will trend upwards just a bit as 32ish (512/513) seems to have replaced 508/509ish as the new median/target. At any rate, 516 is more than competitive for most US MD programs, and many will advise that insisting on an outcome beyond the category of most US MD programs is just too greedy and/or unrealistic, especially given that even the super-high scorers are not guaranteed admission to a top 15 either. As noted above, there are lots of things that can go wrong for a 516 going for a re-take. Obviously you can score lower and really screw yourself, you can score the same or just a point or two higher which won't help, and with the time commitment involved in maximizing chances for a significantly higher score there will have to be other things that suffer (grades if still in school, volunteering, clinical experience, some killer EC, etc).
But here's the real kicker, courtesy of Grapes of Rath and gyngyn.....even if all goes as planned, and that 516 jumps to a 520/520+, you most likely are not going to be credited for that the same way as a first attempt 520. You also apparently even in the best case scenario will open the door to questions about your judgment and maybe even one's narcissism (i.e. "what's the insistence on a top-tier over a really strong mid-tiers all about?"). I don't necessarily agree with the downgrading of re-takes, especially one-time re-takes, but I've been convinced by those in the know on this site that the dynamic is real. Finally, as also noted, the 516 will not keep you out of Harvard if in the bigger picture of your entire candidacy you truly "deserve" to be at a school like that.
The impulse to re-take is understandable, but actually doing so is not advisable. Why understandable? Well, you've explained why. You have a specific goal in mind....your score is tantalizing close to what you believe would make you more solidly competitive for your wish list....and you likely are fairly confident that you can score at least a few points higher. It seems that there are scores achieved, especially on first attempts, that trigger an impulse to re-take, and almost always the impulse to re-take is motivated by a desire to creep inside a realistic/optimal? range for a certain goal. The goals can range from gaining at least 1 US MD program to the range for a "mid-tier" to a range for a top 10-15. Using the new MCAT scoring, the scores that seem to trigger the impulse are 506-508 (sheer panic about gaining a single US MD admission), 508-510 (significant worry about gaining 1 or more US MD admits), 511-513 (feeling better but still not confident and thinking you are right on the wrong edge of being competitive as some highly desirable "mid-tiers"), and 514-516 (top 9 to top 5 percent which makes one potentially competitive for mid-tiers within shouting range and at least a shot at top tiers IF other aspects of the application are truly outstanding). Now certainly there may scorers in the 517-518 range who may be disappointed with their score if they were expecting 520+, but any impulses to re-take in this category most likely will be muted by awareness that 517/518 is good enough and risks for a re-take at that level are just too high.
So why not advisable? The only score range where I've seen re-takes recommended are for scorers in the 506-508 range (28 to low 30ish), and even then the advice is cautious with most advising applicants to hold off on applying long enough to increase the chances that a re-take will actually yield a significant to substantial improvement. The next range, 508-510, gets more dicey and seems to be more of a grey area. And you will hardly ever see anyone advised to re-take a 511+ (31+). It's possible that the advice will trend upwards just a bit as 32ish (512/513) seems to have replaced 508/509ish as the new median/target. At any rate, 516 is more than competitive for most US MD programs, and many will advise that insisting on an outcome beyond the category of most US MD programs is just too greedy and/or unrealistic, especially given that even the super-high scorers are not guaranteed admission to a top 15 either. As noted above, there are lots of things that can go wrong for a 516 going for a re-take. Obviously you can score lower and really screw yourself, you can score the same or just a point or two higher which won't help, and with the time commitment involved in maximizing chances for a significantly higher score there will have to be other things that suffer (grades if still in school, volunteering, clinical experience, some killer EC, etc).
But here's the real kicker, courtesy of Grapes of Rath and gyngyn.....even if all goes as planned, and that 516 jumps to a 520/520+, you most likely are not going to be credited for that the same way as a first attempt 520. You also apparently even in the best case scenario will open the door to questions about your judgment and maybe even one's narcissism (i.e. "what's the insistence on a top-tier over a really strong mid-tiers all about?"). I don't necessarily agree with the downgrading of re-takes, especially one-time re-takes, but I've been convinced by those in the know on this site that the dynamic is real. Finally, as also noted, the 516 will not keep you out of Harvard if in the bigger picture of your entire candidacy you truly "deserve" to be at a school like that.
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Check out the Wedgedawg applicant rating thread for a comprehensive list of what med school AdComs will be looking for and how you stack up relative to other applicants.
If your 516 MCAT is your 'weakest link' and you're sure you can do better, then sure - retake. But that's highly unlikely to be the case...
Consider also the potential upside versus the potential downside. The upside is a relatively minor increase in the prestige of your medical school (from excellent to wow). The downside is that you look like an arrogant jerk for retaking a very strong score and could potentially score the same or worse, making you look like an idiotic arrogant jerk.
If your 516 MCAT is your 'weakest link' and you're sure you can do better, then sure - retake. But that's highly unlikely to be the case...
Consider also the potential upside versus the potential downside. The upside is a relatively minor increase in the prestige of your medical school (from excellent to wow). The downside is that you look like an arrogant jerk for retaking a very strong score and could potentially score the same or worse, making you look like an idiotic arrogant jerk.
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Considering the paucity of AAMC practice tests, the OP can't be sure that they'll perform better the next time around. There are just too many uncertainties in this scenario.
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Others on SDN will disagree (likely because they don't have direct experience and have bought into the hype) but NYU should not really be considered a "top tier" school. It's still Top 20 but definitely on the bottom end, if not last on that list. In recent years NYU and its new dean of admissions has cared more about USN rankings than actual quality of education, so they almost exclusively select and admit students with high MCAT scores, but do little else to actually offer the kind of resources that you would get at other top tier schools.
You don't see people go "Whoa you went to NYU med?" with the same awe that you might other Top 20 schools, and I could come up with 20 schools I'd sooner go to over NYU.
You don't see people go "Whoa you went to NYU med?" with the same awe that you might other Top 20 schools, and I could come up with 20 schools I'd sooner go to over NYU.
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what is your direct experience?
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Exposure to the school, its students, and its staff for the past 4-5 years. For residencies it's certainly one of the best and I will definitely be applying to their programs in whatever field I end up choosing, but for medical education I don't see anything that would command a 37-38 MCAT.
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Ask and yes shall receive.
Pay very careful attention, OP: so help me , if you're foolish enough to retake that great MCAT score, I'll reach through the electrons and smack you upside the head!!!
Pay very careful attention, OP: so help me , if you're foolish enough to retake that great MCAT score, I'll reach through the electrons and smack you upside the head!!!
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Ask and ye shall receive.
Pay very careful attention, OP: so help me , if you're foolish enough to retake that great MCAT score, I'll reach through the electrons and smack you upside the head!!!
Pay very careful attention, OP: so help me , if you're foolish enough to retake that great MCAT score, I'll reach through the electrons and smack you upside the head!!!
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