Do I really have to waive my right to see LORs?

[a_borgia]

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[FindMeOnTheLinks]

if you don't waive it, they will discount your letters

 

[StudyLater]

if you don't waive it, they will discount your letters

I remember @LizzyM saying in another thread that it raises eyebrows but wouldn't kill you. Maybe she can clarify.

 

[a_borgia]

if you don't waive it, they will discount your letters

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[medic86]

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This is foolish.

 

[a_borgia]

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[heebeejeebies]

Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.

 

[StudyLater]

Why? I really see no downside.

Because you're supposed to cover your eyes when playing hide n' seek, and no peeking because that's part of the game!

 

[a_borgia]

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[StudyLater]

Okay, other than pseudo-ethical reasons, if this isn't going to get me in trouble with anyone, I'd really care to know.

I mean, it's already been said that it doesn't. You have the choice, don't you? Why would they give you the choice if one of the choices bars you from admission? That makes no sense.

Unless it's one of those mindf*ckery "this isn't a test but it really is" moments.

 

[a_borgia]

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[StudyLater]

Because they are legally obligated to give you a choice? Not everything is a test.

Well you always have a choice. But they could say that you must waive your right to see the LORs if you want admission. Similar to how you must agree to AAMC terms before sitting for the MCAT and the like. And they don't -- they give you a choice. Hence, it's either mindf*ck or they're literally being straight up in giving you a choice and don't care too much about it.

 

[a_borgia]

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[Spector1]

I thought its just if you don't waive your rights, most letter writers wouldnt be willing to write your letter.

 

[a_borgia]

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[wasteofspace323]

Well you always have a choice. But they could say that you must waive your right to see the LORs if you want admission. Similar to how you must agree to AAMC terms before sitting for the MCAT and the like. And they don't -- they give you a choice. Hence, it's either mindf*ck or they're literally being straight up in giving you a choice and don't care too much about it.

I think you're giving them too much credit. I imagine the scenario he is imagining is this:

The admissions committee starts its meeting. They all exchange pleasantries and spend the first hour chatting about how one of the member's children recently crashed his father's yacht. Finally they get around to the first round of business, looking at the applications for those with early assurance. Its mostly just a quick check to make sure they didn't accept a murderer or lunatic. Suddenly, an ADCOM notices something. OP hasn't waived his right to view the letters. The ADCOM comes to the obvious, immediate and logical conclusion: OP is a monstrous sociopath who would willingly commit genocide for entertainment. They cannot allow someone like this in medical school. But wait, they've already accepted him. Wails begin to erupt from the committee. The Dean gnashes his teeth in frustration and anguish. The earth begins to crack and the sky begins to be rent in two. Something must be done! They finally calm down and come to the only ethical conclusion: OP must be rejected. It will mean that they will have to go back on their word, but these proud, proud saints are willing to make a tragic sacrifice of their flawless records for such a greater good. OP is rejected, and the chain of being is restored to the world.

 

[nhnative]

I'm early assurance at a school, so can I not waive my right to see LORs there? I'm just curious to see what's been written about me.

I hear you on feeling curious, I'm sure we all do. But is satisfying that curiosity worth possibly decreasing your chance of acceptance? For myself, I know I need every advantage I can get!

 

[LizzyM]

Federal law, known as FERPA, requires that a school give you access to anything in your school file. That is your right under federal law. You can waive that right. You are not required to waive your right but if you do not waive your right, then schools will be concerned that the writer was not as candid as might be the case if the writer was assured that the student would not be reading the letter.

Although you may have waived your right, a writer may grant you the right to read it. Similarly, you don't have the right to walk into your professor's office whenever you please but the professor can invite you in, if he wishes to do so.

 

[studentdocftw]

This seems like an easy choice. Though you aren't GUARANTEED to be penalized by waiving your right, the POSSIBILITY of being penalized should be enough to do so.

 

[Chimichica]

It's called manners...it isn't polite to ask people for their opinions of you just so u can call them on their bull later. This is MERICA! But In all seriousness think of it this way, you aren't required to dress nice for the Interview and you app may be stellar but it leaves bad impression. Dude who is gonna give a flying rats behind after ur accepted....no one. Move on.

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[a_borgia]

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[studentdocftw]

I think I haven't been clear. I'm not decreasing my chance of acceptance by doing this, as I've already been admitted under BS/MD. I just don't know if this will make administration/professors wary of me in the future. Will anyone even know?

Doubt it. Who would have access to that information? I can't imagine a future professor looking up your decision (not even sure he/she could) to see if you waived your right or not. At this point, what is done is done. No need to dwell on things you can't control.

 

[a_borgia]

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[LizzyM]

You waive it or you don't. You can't waive your right as far as one school is concerned but not waive your rights with regard to the same letter being sent to another school. If you don't waive your right, this is attached to the letter in your current academic file, and every school is told that you have not waived the right to see the letter. The writer would know before writing the letter that you were waiving the right to see what the writer has written about you.

If you waive your right, that is attached to the letter in your current academic file, every school is told that you have waived the right to see the letter and informed that the letter should not be shared with you, that it should be used only for admission decisions and that it should then be destroyed.

 

[Chimichica]

I know 2 rec writers are professors at ur school and If they didn't write a decent one u may not want to use them for eras which is why I am guessing u want to know. But honestly if u had the gall to ask them I'm pretty sure they wrote ok to really good letters about u, so why are u so hung up on it? It's honestly just poor form. People talk and what u would be doing Is out of the ordinary/odd so you can assume with a confident level of certainty that it will get around to other staff that u were the student who just had to see their letters. If u go thru with it, it may come across as you not being a good sport when everyone else plays the game and waive their rights. I'm just saying, that people come to their own conclusions and it may be seen as neurotic or someone with poor judgment or obsessive. I wouldn't risk faculty getting the wrong idea. Or being the butt of gossip. No one wants all eyes on them at the beginning. However , it can be seen as bold, and no one may care. Ur call dude.

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[a_borgia]

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[LizzyM]

How does this work? All the other schools have gotten my application and letters, and all my writers have sent them. I waived it in AMCAS, but this is a question on this school's secondary app. I don't know how they would tell other schools.

If specified to the letter writer, before the letter was written, that you waived your right to read the letter. The letters were written with that understanding. You can't reverse that decision now.

 

[a_borgia]

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[LizzyM]

They might want to have the information there on the secondary for their convenience.

 

[a_borgia]

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[Chimichica]

To be honest there Is an option, u could call the other school since ur planning on just going to this one school and ask them what the letter writers generally said. I doubt they will flat out read It but It's worth a shot. I actually had withdrew an app from a school and when I called to do so they gave me feedback on my app as well as my LORs . Even though I didn't even ask. But that school is really student friendly and really advocates for their students to succeed

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[wasteofspace323]

To be honest there Is an option, u could call the other school since ur planning on just going to this one school and ask them what the letter writers generally said. I doubt they will flat out read It but It's worth a shot. I actually had withdrew an app from a school and when I called to do so they gave me feedback on my app as well as my LORs . Even though I didn't even ask. But that school is really student friendly and really advocates for their students to succeed

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Can I ask what school? I would consider submitting an application and secondary fee just to be sure someone would inform me if I had a poor LOR.

 

[Chimichica]

I won't mention the school because I don't feel comfortable, but lots of schools give feedback. Or so I hear from friends. Also, LORs are suppose to be icing, not the cake. Don't make it an option to be written negatively about. Only ask people with solid views of ur character.

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[Ismet]

I know 2 rec writers are professors at ur school and If they didn't write a decent one u may not want to use them for eras which is why I am guessing u want to know. But honestly if u had the gall to ask them I'm pretty sure they wrote ok to really good letters about u, so why are u so hung up on it? It's honestly just poor form. People talk and what u would be doing Is out of the ordinary/odd so you can assume with a confident level of certainty that it will get around to other staff that u were the student who just had to see their letters. If u go thru with it, it may come across as you not being a good sport when everyone else plays the game and waive their rights. I'm just saying, that people come to their own conclusions and it may be seen as neurotic or someone with poor judgment or obsessive. I wouldn't risk faculty getting the wrong idea. Or being the butt of gossip. No one wants all eyes on them at the beginning. However , it can be seen as bold, and no one may care. Ur call dude.

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If his letters are from undergrad they have no business going in ERAS.

 

[a_borgia]

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[nwts]

Oh, yeah, the exact letters wouldn't go in ERAS, but if I go to this school, I'd almost certainly ask these professors again, as they would have known me for 8 years by then.

I certainly wouldn't look at the letters if you are planning to ask these people for letters again down the road. Many people won't write a letter for an applicant who refuses to waive his/her right to view the letter, so these people might decline to write you a letter if they knew that you had looked at other letters they'd written for you. I wouldn't risk losing those possible future letters if I were you.

 

[NeuResurgens]

What I've been told is they think the writers will be more honest in their assessment of you if they believe you won't see what they've written. Therefore, on paper, it's best to show that you officially waived the right to read the letters.

 

[Ismet]

Oh, yeah, the exact letters wouldn't go in ERAS, but if I go to this school, I'd almost certainly ask these professors again, as they would have known me for 8 years by then.

You're only allowed 4 letters per program, and at least 3 of them should be clinical letters. So unless these professors are attendings who you will work with clinically, they're of little use down the road. Maybe for scholarships or something, sure.

 

[Cytarabine]

If i wrote a letter for someone with the understanding it was confidential, I would be extremely put off if I found out they later read it

 

[gyngyn]

To be honest there Is an option, u could call the other school since ur planning on just going to this one school and ask them what the letter writers generally said. I doubt they will flat out read It but It's worth a shot. I actually had withdrew an app from a school and when I called to do so they gave me feedback on my app as well as my LORs . Even though I didn't even ask. But that school is really student friendly and really advocates for their students to succeed

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I'm sure AMCAS would also love to hear about this school's generous feedback.

 

[wasteofspace323]

I'm sure AMCAS would also love to hear about this school's generous feedback.

I'm sure they would.

 

[Chimichica]

It's wasnt for an MD program it was for another program and my PA friends have gone up to student affairs to ask for feedback on their apps

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[Chimichica]

If u don't ask you will never know

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