DO International restrictions

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PmDawn

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I was contemplating this recently and wanted to know if anyone has some info.
I know some U.S. physicians that go back to their home countries for 3-months or so and provide their services back home, outside the US, the ones I know are MDs. I was wondering If DOs can/are doing the same, I know in some countries like New Zealand there is masters of Osteopathy and I believe Spain has a weird way of interpreting DO.

I can't find much info about international recognitions.
Middle-east and Europe(Spain,France, Germany) are the important ones for me.

Any info would be appreciated
 
here is an old list http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

It really is a case by case basis in every country. It is hard for anyone MD/DO to get practice rights in a foreign country. The exception is for medical missions like doctors without borders. Anyone can go on those since you do not need to be licensed in the country.

The AOA has advocated for more countries since that list was updated in march 06
 
here is an old list http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

It really is a case by case basis in every country. It is hard for anyone MD/DO to get practice rights in a foreign country. The exception is for medical missions like doctors without borders. Anyone can go on those since you do not need to be licensed in the country.

The AOA has advocated for more countries since that list was updated in march 06

Great thanks. Just what I was looking for
 

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here is an old list http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

It really is a case by case basis in every country. It is hard for anyone MD/DO to get practice rights in a foreign country. The exception is for medical missions like doctors without borders. Anyone can go on those since you do not need to be licensed in the country.

The AOA has advocated for more countries since that list was updated in march 06

How did Wawa break your heart, man? You wanna talk about it?
 
Wikipedia has a list of countries that accept DOs, the list is actually a very long one, it might not be accurate, I think the AOA might have some literature. Still I think even for MDs its not easy to cross borders. For Germany and Europe, the best way to go there as an American is to work for the US Military. I actually have a friend who works for the Army in Germany. From what I heard they are really having a tough time finding personnel. This is something I am thinking about in my future plans.
 
The hoops you have to jump through are usually less about the education and more about the paperwork and residency stuff. This is especially true in the EU if you aren't an EU citizen. Part of the thing is that there isn't a precedent for many of these nations. Germany for instance. Not many people will spend tons of money here for an education to go to Germany and work for a bit less. Germans don't usually come over here for an education that they pay about 1/1000th the amount for in Germany. I am willing to bet that if you had the time, connections and language ability that you could work something out with them...especially if you were to pursue academics. If you are of German and Jewish heritage that you can prove they will bend even more. Heck, I was told directly by a person that works for the government that I could get a German passport easily relative to the poor turks that live there. I passed the language test when I was there though, so that kind of skewed it in my favor as well.
 
I was actually in the middle of posting about Germany as well. It might be up on the list, but the fact remains that there will be local regulations that restrict the usage or transferability of such an "unrecognized" license. I actually asked an Oeberaerztin about this and she had no idea and said she would not hire if there was not an MD attached.

MossPoh,

Which language exam did you take?
 
I actually know quite a few German doctors....many are leaving the country because of poor job prospects. They are among the most overworked and underpaid physicians in the world. Many who can move to the UK, Australia, or the US. As I said its much better to be a military physician on a US military installation. I know someone who works as a contract physician in Munich and gets paid tax free.
I heard of Germany's Jewish immigration scheme, a former girlfriend of mine went through the process, she was born in Ukraine, its actually not as easy as most people think to fit into German society. Its true that its easy to get the passport once you have your paperwork. I know that the only European country that seems to be taking in foreign physicians in noticeable amounts is the UK.
 
Ok, and that's on topic how?
 
The OP wants to work in Germany. I was just explaining the reality of the situation there.
 
The issue, in my opinion, will not be the working conditions. It's actually getting a job based on it and defense of the degree all the time. Getting jobs are difficult as it is for physicians who don't want to work in gutter hospitals and/or take on jobs as cab drivers to make some extra money to support their families. Now bringing a dubious qualification that's "like a doctor" adds a whole new dimension of difficulty and discrimination.

Understand that while it can be accepted, it doesn't have to be accepted and most likely won't be accepted.
 
The issue, in my opinion, will not be the working conditions. It's actually getting a job based on it and defense of the degree all the time. Getting jobs are difficult as it is for physicians who don't want to work in gutter hospitals and/or take on jobs as cab drivers to make some extra money to support their families. Now bringing a dubious qualification that's "like a doctor" adds a whole new dimension of difficulty and discrimination.

Understand that while it can be accepted, it doesn't have to be accepted and most likely won't be accepted.

Just to be clear, I do not want to move to a different country to practice, but I do want to have that option. My plan is to practice over sea every summer for a few months.

So most of you think MD would be less paper work? What about Carib MD?
 
The issue, in my opinion, will not be the working conditions. It's actually getting a job based on it and defense of the degree all the time. Getting jobs are difficult as it is for physicians who don't want to work in gutter hospitals and/or take on jobs as cab drivers to make some extra money to support their families. Now bringing a dubious qualification that's "like a doctor" adds a whole new dimension of difficulty and discrimination.

Understand that while it can be accepted, it doesn't have to be accepted and most likely won't be accepted.

I may be guilty of the same, but are you sure you aren't talking out of your @ss on this one? 🙄 To my understanding, Germany is one of the very few countries in the world where MD's train in manual medicine. Common sense would dictate that German authorities wouldn't discriminate against American DO's based on some archaic misunderstanding of whether or not they are truly physicians.
No disrespect intended, btw.
 
Just to be clear, I do not want to move to a different country to practice, but I do want to have that option. My plan is to practice over sea every summer for a few months.

So most of you think MD would be less paper work? What about Carib MD?

I think to be clear, it's a case by case basis. When you apply for licensure in another country as a DO or MD, let us know how easy/difficult it was.
For my part, I expect you need patience, diplomatic charm and a whole lot of money in your savings account to be considered wherever you may go.
 
I may be guilty of the same, but are you sure you aren't talking out of your @ss on this one? 🙄 To my understanding, Germany is one of the very few countries in the world where MD's train in manual medicine. Common sense would dictate that German authorities wouldn't discriminate against American DO's based on some archaic misunderstanding of whether or not they are truly physicians.
No disrespect intended, btw.
Common sense would dictate a lot of things, but I actually live here, and as stated, I asked a chief of a department what they thought.

On top of that, common sense would make one think that Germany would do whatever they could to keep their physicians from going to such countries as France, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, as well as several others, but they are not. Common sense would make one think that a physician here would make more than a NYC cab driver, but the actuality is the opposite.

Like I said, and I stressed it with italics. They can take the certification, but that doesn't mean on a local level they are obligated to, or even will. You think DO's have a problem explaining to people what they are? Imagine a chief of a department trying to explain what a DO is here. The conditions are bad enough that they can't deal with this nonsense,especially with certain insurances dictating that a patient has to be seen by a chief. They are not going to deal with this nonsense. There's a lot of minutia in how Germany works, and when in doubt, they don't do it, simply put. This is one of the reasons why unemployment is so high and rapidly increasing.
 
RE: Explaining DO -

I'm not sure what you meant by "take the certification", but I'm assuming you mean being granted practice rights by the health ministry.
My description of a US DO- Fully licensed medical practitioners, with all that entails. Short explanation, but to the point. Oh, right, they learn OMM and have a more formalized patient-centered (not symptom driven) philosophy that no MD would argue with (i.e. biopsychosocial model, etc.) I won't argue your point about not getting hired in spite of having been given practice rights by the Health Ministry, which has approved US DO's in the past, and consider on a case-by-case,
but in these cases, I err on the side of optimism, and market forces (i.e. is my skill-set in demand?) I think if someone's motivated enough to move to Germany, they probably can find a way to practice their specialty, and would have signed an agreement and arranged all this well in advance of touching on the ground. Not that it'd be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is. Anyhow, I see your italic emphasis and we're just having a friendly discussion, I'm not arguing with you.

Typical cab salary after expenses is about $10 an hour. Not $50-60k a year - the salary German physicians were making on average in 2002.
I can't find any more recent data.


Common sense would dictate a lot of things, but I actually live here, and as stated, I asked a chief of a department what they thought.

On top of that, common sense would make one think that Germany would do whatever they could to keep their physicians from going to such countries as France, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, as well as several others, but they are not. Common sense would make one think that a physician here would make more than a NYC cab driver, but the actuality is the opposite.

Like I said, and I stressed it with italics. They can take the certification, but that doesn't mean on a local level they are obligated to, or even will. You think DO's have a problem explaining to people what they are? Imagine a chief of a department trying to explain what a DO is here. The conditions are bad enough that they can't deal with this nonsense,especially with certain insurances dictating that a patient has to be seen by a chief. They are not going to deal with this nonsense. There's a lot of minutia in how Germany works, and when in doubt, they don't do it, simply put. This is one of the reasons why unemployment is so high and rapidly increasing.
 
If we go by hours, German physicians make less.

If you also want to discuss take home, German physicians make less.

Also understand how Germans discuss their salary: They actually include the worth of their benefits package, which will roughly add 20k or more to the salary. I was shocked to discover that and find out the real income.

An Oeberaertz is making the range you discussed, all the while working way more hours for less proportional compensation.

You're not figuring in the taxation level here.

Your figures are 2002. I have figures from today.

Your description of Osteopathic Medicine is also not valid here. I think you're failing to understand that point.

Additionally, I know many NY cab drivers. I know what they state, what they report, and what they make. They are making way more than German physicians. The industry here has a different culture. It's known physicians don't make as much money as in the US. Mathematicians and Physikers make more than physicians. Medicine here is typically a sector for women, because it allows them to vary hours and have families and work fewer hours. Additionally, medicine is also looked at as a sector people go into because they're bad at math. During my interview, the officer for the school commented about how he's never seen a student in recent years with such high math and physics scores. Additionally, the courses were dedicated ones on higher levels than what the medical school offers. He also wondered, and caught me off guard, about why I didn't go into engineering or physics or mathematics, as there's a desperate need for them and the salaries are higher.

And again, the issue is not how legit you think the DO degree is. It doesn't matter what a third party internet list declares. What matters is if it's actually accepted. MD's have a very hard time finding work here as it is, having to sometimes pick from just a few jobs that are spaced throughout the country and require moving for. Any disadvantage and they won't look. Again, I also asked a chief physician, whom I know personally, and they said they will never hire a DO. This is a person that also spent 20+ years in the US.

The other aspect you don't understand is how poor work life is here. Even if there is a need, and someone is qualified, they will not hire, regardless of how bad it makes work life for the other employees.
 
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Wow. Alright, note to self: don't even think of moving to Germany.
:laugh: I wish you the best.



If we go by hours, German physicians make less.

If you also want to discuss take home, German physicians make less.

Also understand how Germans discuss their salary: They actually include the worth of their benefits package, which will roughly add 20k or more to the salary. I was shocked to discover that and find out the real income.

An Oeberaertz is making the range you discussed, all the while working way more hours for less proportional compensation.

You're not figuring in the taxation level here.

Your figures are 2002. I have figures from today.

Your description of Osteopathic Medicine is also not valid here. I think you're failing to understand that point.

Additionally, I know many NY cab drivers. I know what they state, what they report, and what they make. They are making way more than German physicians. The industry here has a different culture. It's known physicians don't make as much money as in the US. Mathematicians and Physikers make more than physicians. Medicine here is typically a sector for women, because it allows them to vary hours and have families and work fewer hours. Additionally, medicine is also looked at as a sector people go into because they're bad at math. During my interview, the officer for the school commented about how he's never seen a student in recent years with such high math and physics scores. Additionally, the courses were dedicated ones on higher levels than what the medical school offers. He also wondered, and caught me off guard, about why I didn't go into engineering or physics or mathematics, as there's a desperate need for them and the salaries are higher.

And again, the issue is not how legit you think the DO degree is. It doesn't matter what a third party internet list declares. What matters is if it's actually accepted. MD's have a very hard time finding work here as it is, having to sometimes pick from just a few jobs that are spaced throughout the country and require moving for. Any disadvantage and they won't look. Again, I also asked a chief physician, whom I know personally, and they said they will never hire a DO. This is a person that also spent 20+ years in the US.

The other aspect you don't understand is how poor work life is here. Even if there is a need, and someone is qualified, they will not hire, regardless of how bad it makes work life for the other employees.
 
If we go by hours, German physicians make less.

If you also want to discuss take home, German physicians make less.

Also understand how Germans discuss their salary: They actually include the worth of their benefits package, which will roughly add 20k or more to the salary. I was shocked to discover that and find out the real income.

An Oeberaertz is making the range you discussed, all the while working way more hours for less proportional compensation.

You're not figuring in the taxation level here.

Your figures are 2002. I have figures from today.

Your description of Osteopathic Medicine is also not valid here. I think you're failing to understand that point.

Additionally, I know many NY cab drivers. I know what they state, what they report, and what they make. They are making way more than German physicians. The industry here has a different culture. It's known physicians don't make as much money as in the US. Mathematicians and Physikers make more than physicians. Medicine here is typically a sector for women, because it allows them to vary hours and have families and work fewer hours. Additionally, medicine is also looked at as a sector people go into because they're bad at math. During my interview, the officer for the school commented about how he's never seen a student in recent years with such high math and physics scores. Additionally, the courses were dedicated ones on higher levels than what the medical school offers. He also wondered, and caught me off guard, about why I didn't go into engineering or physics or mathematics, as there's a desperate need for them and the salaries are higher.

And again, the issue is not how legit you think the DO degree is. It doesn't matter what a third party internet list declares. What matters is if it's actually accepted. MD's have a very hard time finding work here as it is, having to sometimes pick from just a few jobs that are spaced throughout the country and require moving for. Any disadvantage and they won't look. Again, I also asked a chief physician, whom I know personally, and they said they will never hire a DO. This is a person that also spent 20+ years in the US.

The other aspect you don't understand is how poor work life is here. Even if there is a need, and someone is qualified, they will not hire, regardless of how bad it makes work life for the other employees.

Great first hand info slight, thanks.
I guess I'll have to work on my application for another year to get into MD.
 
Excuse me, if you wanted to clarify where the information comes from, you can ask. Just because your username is in boldface, you don't have to knock down everything with authority. Part of the problem I've previously discussed about the medical field (and it exists in this forum) is that half of the information and advice is opinion presented as fact, and then 25% is just outright lies either due to lack of knowledge, or due the want of keeping people out of the field and due to jaded views due to unfulfilled expectations.

The first-hand info I have to deal with is the fact that my fiancee is a physician. Perhaps it should have been homed in on in my above posts.

When the HR departments make mistakes, it affects me as well, considering we live together and share finances. When I found out what physicians really make, beyond the lies, it affected me as well. It was a shock to see this is a common practice to "normalize" the physician salary so it's comparable to other countries somewhat.

I have family members that are NYC cab drivers, as well as some that own car services.

Under the table, over the table, the cabbies have the physicians beat. Two people can make $60k a year, but who's the one that's ahead? The one that works eight hour days, or 14 hour days?

It's great you have an optimistic view of the world, and it will probably take you far, or maybe not, as you will continually experience unfulfilled expectations because the world doesn't really work the way you believe it should.

Additionally, as a "donating member" you should actually try and support info, or even try to investigate it a little more when it actually departs from the all too common "Well, this is what I think..." posts. We are here to help others, afterall. Aren't we?

Now I like how the example of the chief was turned around. The fact of the matter was I mentioned that because they are familiar with what a DO is, and they will not hire one due to the many issues that will come up with hiring a DO, from hiring issues to issues that will exist throughout employment, such as explaining to patients what a DO is and reassuring them they are equivalent, and why they didn't become an MD if they are equal. Patients often use this right and will not allow anyone with variations in qualifications, especially those with insurance that allows them to see whoever they choose and institutions legally bound to this request. This will usually create the scenario that the already overworked Chief has to see the patient (and this is the patient's right, actually under many insurances).

I don't think this a member of this site, if he/she wants to maintain legitimacy, should be inserting words, such as above, indicating I asked about "biases". I did not. I asked "Would you hire a DO?". I guess most people here have access to a chief of a department in Germany, so it's ok. I don't need to post that, because I'm sure a pre-med contributing member of a message board in the US can post what they think with authority because boldfaced letters means they automatically know what they're talking about and are qualified to shoot down anything that they think shouldn't be, regardless of the fact that this is how the world (a world they don't even know, in fact) functions.

And yes, it doesn't matter how Germany supposedly accepts this certification. Again, you only have a list on the internet. Why do you think there are so many Will I get in?" threads? They can take you, but they don't want to. Anyone in the US with an MD can apply for a job as well and of course, their license and training is government recognized, but the hiring is not handled by the government. It is handled by local people, and it is their option to hire or not, but they don't have to hire anyone for nearly whatever their reasons are. That is the case here. An applicant can come in, but they don't have to hire, and in this case, they will often not hire. The system allows for little variability, and I'm sure HR, who basically runs everything, will back up not hiring due to their own reasons.

The situation here is already sad enough that physicians are desperately needed and are going elsewhere and the government is doing nothing to reform the system and keep them here. Even under this condition, Germans pick and choose whatever they want, despite the fact that quality of service is reduced and quality of the worklife for the remaining workers is made worse and worse. My reality is that I will be ready to start working towards the end of my 30's. I recently learned that I will not be eligible for the better jobs, and will face massive difficulties getting work here due to the social structure. At my age, I'm supposed to start at a certain salary, and also have a certain number of government-mandated vacations based on my age. Due to this, along with other factors, HR and Chief physicians will elect to not hire me and not fill a hole in employment and wait indefinitely until someone else is more suitable. Why? One reason is it might take 1-2 years, including with legal counsel, to fire someone, so people are afraid to hire in the first place.

This is yet another aspect of the conditions here. The education quality is excellent, however the problem lies with what to do afterward. If they can afford to pick and choose and overlook me for jobs based on age, despite need, then no problem. It's telling of how the system works.
 
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Like your taxi cab scenario - sure, you have family that pulls down 60k driving the yellow car, I never doubted that.
I never said that.

Your scenario about "Beatrix" is not valid either. It assumes she doesn't have family who will check the qualifications, or that her insurance demands that a protocol be followed, which is actually the case. I had an injury in the Fall that required a vascular surgeon to be available. They saw my insurance and followed a specific protocol to make sure I saw a head of a department only.

"Beatrix", if concious and ambulatory can and will refuse treatment, a common occurrence and problem both in the US, and here. I don't know why any chief of a department would want to deal with additional compliance care issues than they already do. There are already issues with Germans refusing to be treated by Auslaender physicians, or even ones who are not white, let alone ones with qualifications that are somewhat dubious in this country.

And I doubt the DO having a Texas or New England accent would help much.
Actually, there is significant discrimination that still exists in Germany, one type is against Americans, no matter what color of their skin.
you aren't supposed to be getting offended
You assume many things.
I feel the need to say that now since our humor is a bit different
Sense of humor is fine, but we're dealing with a factual representation of the world I exist in on several levels. I assumed it would be helpful to paint the picture for those thinking about coming here, based on what I have learned and what I will learn. However, you seem to talk down to people who have differing views compared to yours, perhaps due to the fact that you paid to have your screen name put in pretty bold-face.

The difference between us in this argument is you have a view. I have the actual experience. Your view is driven by what you think should be. My view is not even addressing what I think is right or wrong; it's indicating what is reality, based on my actual experience of being here, being close to the care aspects, personally, and just one close person away, getting direct info from a chief, and understanding the culture.

I'm happy that in spite of all of the economic challenges you face, that you must be truly committed to medicine to still embark on your path of study, and I understood that much. At very least you won't be in terrible debt when you graduate.
Thank you.

The lack of debt is perhaps the only solid outcome of this, plus a fantastic education modeled after whatever the hell Harvard uses. I got to learn a language and a new culture while here.

If you're not looking to work, but volunteer your time just do Docs w/o Borders.
Some in this program were recently kidnapped in Somalia.
 
Ok, man, my humor is not endearing myself to you, that point is clear!
LOL! I won't antagonize you with my whimsy any longer, really sorry you've been feeling spoken down to. Not my intention. If I could take it back, and my bold faced name that's like a red cape on a bull to you, I would.

I'm releasing this thread back into the wild to see if it thrives after being hijacked.
Yes, by whom?

I'm pretty sure most people would rather think the person who actually asked a German Chief of Medicine and is already "inside the system" in several respects would be less of a "hijacker" than a pre-med in the US who only states what he feels in his heart should be the case. Also note that my posts appear to fall in line with the OP's interests, along with even the first reply 😱

If I could take it back, and my bold faced name that's like a red cape on a bull to you, I would.

Nah, it makes you feel like someone. Keep it.
 
I was referring to myself as having hijacked the thread,
but after this last post by you, I think it's clear your an obtuse,
insufferable @ss, and you need to shut your pie hole before everyone discovers it.
I could possibly be an "obtuse ass", but also I'm not a pre-med that isn't giving valid info when especially the "obtuse ass" is actually giving information from this side of the border of the difficulties the OP will face.

The US Pre-med who is still taking western civilization and pre-req classes is telling someone who is looking to practice and structure their professional life around what he says, which could be an expensive mistake.

If everyone discovers I'm an "obtuse ass", then nothing happens. I turn the internet off, or don't log into the site, and it all goes away, and I go back to my life, which is actually quite good. I am in a top world-ranked medical school, will have zero debt, top-notch education, and get to travel the world. To that end, even if people find out I'm an "obtuse ass" on the internet, I'll let what I posted stand. It is from experience being inside the system, rather than what I think, as a certain pre-med in the US thinks.
 
I think slight365 has some valid points and also thanks to bluerberry for making sure slight365 was NOT talking out of his @ss.

On the debating: I think many people take what is being posted on here personally, and that tends to start a few sparks.

You'd rather wait so you can someday work in Germany and earn less than his cabbie friends in "NYC"? You're a maverick.
I don't like when people put words in mouth. My point was, seeing how Germany has a bias toward a DO, it would be safer to go MD for finding a job internationally (I don't mean to generalize, I know there are some countries that accept DO no problem, but there is only a few of them). My parents were immigrants and you never know where you will end-up in the world, that is first hand experience on my part, if DO might give me trouble in being hired outside of US then I thinks it's worth it to wait another year. I know of foreign doctors who are waiting tables in the US because of degree interpretation issues.



Bottom line for Germany: It is probably not a very foreign friendly country MD or DO.

Maverick, lol
 
Thanks for keeping it real, PmDawn. :highfive:


I think slight365 has some valid points and also thanks to bluerberry for making sure slight365 was NOT talking out of his @ss.

On the debating: I think many people take what is being posted on here personally, and that tends to start a few sparks.


I don't like when people put words in mouth. My point was, seeing how Germany has a bias toward a DO, it would be safer to go MD for finding a job internationally. My parents were immigrants and you never know where you will end-up in the world, that is first hand experience on my part, if DO might give me trouble in being hired outside of US then I thinks it's worth it to wait another year. I know of foreign doctors who are waiting tables in the US because of degree interpretation issues.



Bottom line for Germany: It is probably not a very foreign friendly country MD or DO.

Maverick, lol
 
Wow..

well back to the OP:

I have family who are US trained DOs in England. They went to DO residencies in the US, and they have no restrictions at all. One is a surgeon so he's not called 'doctor' at all, but that's the same with all senior UK surgeons.

One of my DO relatives goes to Germany to work at a private clinic. He's not military. So it can be done.

It's good that you're thinking ahead, but try to go step-by-step here. A really important question is: where do you plan to do your residency? If you're American with no dual citizenship, you will most likely never get a Germany residency. And as everyone has been talking about, being an Internation Medical Graduate (IMG) of a carrib school is very difficult: only around half of IMGs who apply to American programs match. That's low! DO schools are better for residency matching. Think about that.

Also, please note that your MD degree from the caribbean may not be accepted by some EU countries. When I researched last year, there were several carrib schools that were not recognized by England. So don't think because it says MD that it's universally accepted. Do some research

Good luck.
 
For what it's worth, there's hundreds of US DO's practicing medicine on US bases in Germany, and a couple hundred German MD's trained by US DO's to hold a MD + DO (DAAO) or a DO (DGOM). Back to my hole :beat:
 
It's already been established that US medical bases are completely different cases.

Edit: Bluerberry has been PMing me and now indicated that he will bring the flames back to the board.
 
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Nope. And just to be sure, I added ya to the ignore list 😀
 
OP and all, here is a link for more information about Osteopathic Medicine in other countries:
http://www.oialliance.org/index.htm
It will direct you to the Osteopathic International Alliance homepage.
 
This is why osteopathic schools need to start issuing MD degrees to its students with a certificate in osteopathy (so that students either have an MD degree or an MD, DO). If the both allopathic and osteopathic programs are truly equal, then there is no need for DO students to have to suffer as compared to MD students by not having the same recognition or international practice rights.
 
This is why osteopathic schools need to start issuing MD degrees to its students with a certificate in osteopathy (so that students either have an MD degree or an MD, DO). If the both allopathic and osteopathic programs are truly equal, then there is no need for DO students to have to suffer as compared to MD students by not having the same recognition or international practice rights.

Hear hear!
 
I hate to interrupt this slapfight, but I've been wondering about the whole degree thing in other countries. Some FMGs will come to the US with an MBBS degree, yet that magically becomes "MD" on their white coats and directory listings when they practice here. So why can't a US DO graduate, who has full practice rights in the United States as an MD, have a similar change upon practicing in a country like Germany? Americans don't have to worry about seeing "MBBS" on someone's white coat and wondering if they're fully competent physicians. Why can't foreign countries do the same for US DO physicians? It would probably help in a society where osteopathy means manipulation instead of the full scope of medical practice. I can't see why any country would refuse to give practice rights to a US DO, especially if they passed the USMLE and did an ACGME residency like every other US MD. The two disciplines are on equal ground in the United States, and the AOA needs to reinforce that idea in every other nation on the globe.
One reason is the US actively recruits from other countries to fill its needs. Hell, look at all the countries where the USMLE is offered. Other countries don't make the effort, either because they don't have to, or the US is not their geographic competitor. In the EU, various countries fill their needs through people from neighboring countries, while the US has to choose between Canada and Mexico. Outside of that, the US is now left to recruit from the outside.
 
This is why osteopathic schools need to start issuing MD degrees to its students with a certificate in osteopathy (so that students either have an MD degree or an MD, DO). If the both allopathic and osteopathic programs are truly equal, then there is no need for DO students to have to suffer as compared to MD students by not having the same recognition or international practice rights.

While I generally agree with this sentiment, I can also see the terribly long controversies that would surround such a move.

Also, the AOA. 😀
 
here is an old list http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

It really is a case by case basis in every country. It is hard for anyone MD/DO to get practice rights in a foreign country. The exception is for medical missions like doctors without borders. Anyone can go on those since you do not need to be licensed in the country.

The AOA has advocated for more countries since that list was updated in march 06

Hi,

I am trying to access the updated list of International practice rights for DO's. I'm sure that lots more have been added since 2006. Especially since the country i am most interesed in didn't have any rights in 2006. I'm hoping that has changed now.

I got to the AOA's international site: http://blogs.do-online.org/aoapresident.php?itemid=6411

however it is only allows its members to access this list. I was wondering if anyone with access can pull out some info for me.

I dont want to base my future career options on a Wikipedia article whose links dont even work.

Also, it would be great to update the FAQ as well since it too only has the 2006 list.
Thanks
 
I was actually in the middle of posting about Germany as well. It might be up on the list, but the fact remains that there will be local regulations that restrict the usage or transferability of such an "unrecognized" license. I actually asked an Oeberaerztin about this and she had no idea and said she would not hire if there was not an MD attached.

MossPoh,

Which language exam did you take?

Sorry, never really came back to this thread for a while. I had the KDS through Goethe Institut. Been nearly 3 years since I have spoken though, so I feel like I'm basically a step above a preschooler now.
 
Hi,

I am trying to access the updated list of International practice rights for DO's. I'm sure that lots more have been added since 2006. Especially since the country i am most interesed in didn't have any rights in 2006. I'm hoping that has changed now.

I got to the AOA's international site: http://blogs.do-online.org/aoapresident.php?itemid=6411

however it is only allows its members to access this list. I was wondering if anyone with access can pull out some info for me.

I dont want to base my future career options on a Wikipedia article whose links dont even work.

Also, it would be great to update the FAQ as well since it too only has the 2006 list.
Thanks


anyone???? plz??
 
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