DO & MD: How Do They Differ?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
DrMaximus

DrMaximus

CA-4
Verified Member
10+ Year Member
Physician
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
1,001
Reaction score
151
Hey guys,

I'm really curious what the difference is in these two fields of study, so if someone can give me a little more insight, I would very much appreciate it.

Also, can you do surgery as a DO?
Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Let's try to keep this thread on track and helpful.

That FAQ Bacchus posted should get you started, OP. :thumbup: Check out the osteopathic forum as well for answers to more specific questions you might have.
 
DOs have better cookies. That's the real difference.
 
The difference betwee the two? Well, "DO" has the letter D and the letter O. "MD" also has the letter D but instead of O it has the M, you see.
 
Hey guys,

I'm really curious what the difference is in these two fields of study, so if someone can give me a little more insight, I would very much appreciate it.

Also, can you do surgery as a DO?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
BlueElmo said:
The difference betwee the two? Well, "DO" has the letter D and the letter O. "MD" also has the letter D but instead of O it has the M, you see.
Click to expand...

And in both DO and MD you have DA's... But for the most part they are the same
 
vin5cent0 said:
DO's are fake doctors.
Click to expand...

Clearly, you've taken the time to research the field of medicine before you decided to become a doctor. You'll be quite surprised when a DO is the chief resident in your program.
 
Tekar said:
Clearly, you've taken the time to research the field of medicine before you decided to become a doctor. You'll be quite surprised when a DO is the chief resident in your program.
Click to expand...

sarcasm. learn to recognize it...
 
BlueElmo said:
The difference betwee the two? Well, "DO" has the letter D and the letter O. "MD" also has the letter D but instead of O it has the M, you see.
Click to expand...

And since O comes after M, they did better on their MCAT writing section and thus have a better grasp of the Engrish language.
 
Since everyone gets touchy and wont answer the question, I will as though it weren't a troll post:

Entrance stats:
MD schools tend to have higher entrance stats including MCAT and GPA. However, as the years pass the gap between the 2 seems to be closing. I think there are some DO schools that have higher average stats than some MD schools but on the average, MD schools have a bit higher stats.

Education:
Both have very similar preclincal years. Both types of school are structured very similarly and test very similar subjects. The major difference is that DO schools learn a manipulation modality called OMM. MD schools do not teach this. Some say this is a good modality, others disagree. Regardless, DO students spend a few hours a week learning this.

Minor differences include more research opportunities/requirements in MD curriculum and a higher focus on biochemistry (not universal).

Both schools have to take step 1 of their boards. MD students take USMLE. DO students take COMLEX (and some choose to take USMLE as well if they want allopathic residencies)

Clinical years is where you are going to see the most difference. Almost universally, MD schools have a central hospital where almost all rotations are done. This leads to very uniform rotations. Most MD schools own or have their own hospital. This is rarely the case in the DO world. While there are some schools that have central hospitals where all rotations are done, many (most?) have different sites where you will rotate through, often in different states. Thus clinical rotations can range from very good to mediocre to poor based on the DO school and the hospitals you get in the lottery. Research before you go.

Prestige: MD schools carry more prestige.

After medical school: There are 2 systems of match: the AOA (DO) and the ACGME (MD). MDs can only do ACGME. DOs can do either. Most DOs (60%) choose to do ACGME because these programs are generally in better locations, are large academic centers as opposed to community programs, have more spots for specailaties, and offer better opportunities for fellowship. It is easier to match into a competitive program as an MD, hands down.

Pay: essentially the same, provided in the same field.
 
Instatewaiter said:
Since everyone gets touchy and wont answer the question, I will as though it weren't a troll post:

Entrance stats:
MD schools tend to have higher entrance stats including MCAT and GPA. However, as the years pass the gap between the 2 seems to be closing. I think there are some DO schools that have higher average stats than some MD schools but on the average, MD schools have a bit higher stats.

Education:
Both have very similar preclincal years. Both types of school are structured very similarly and test very similar subjects. The major difference is that DO schools learn a manipulation modality called OMM. MD schools do not teach this. Some say this is a good modality, others disagree. Regardless, DO students spend a few hours a week learning this.

Minor differences include more research opportunities/requirements in MD curriculum and a higher focus on biochemistry (not universal).

Both schools have to take step 1 of their boards. MD students take USMLE. DO students take COMLEX (and some choose to take USMLE as well if they want allopathic residencies)

Clinical years is where you are going to see the most difference. Almost universally, MD schools have a central hospital where almost all rotations are done. This leads to very uniform rotations. Most MD schools own or have their own hospital. This is rarely the case in the DO world. While there are some schools that have central hospitals where all rotations are done, many (most?) have different sites where you will rotate through, often in different states. Thus clinical rotations can range from very good to mediocre to poor based on the DO school and the hospitals you get in the lottery. Research before you go.

Prestige: MD schools carry more prestige.

After medical school: There are 2 systems of match: the AOA (DO) and the ACGME (MD). MDs can only do ACGME. DOs can do either. Most DOs (60%) choose to do ACGME because these programs are generally in better locations, are large academic centers as opposed to community programs, have more spots for specailaties, and offer better opportunities for fellowship. It is easier to match into a competitive program as an MD, hands down.

Pay: essentially the same, provided in the same field.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think the post got an especially cold reception because it started in pre-allo too. Good post, but I wanted to add a few things:

1. Entrance stats ... closing quickly. Actually much quicker than I would have imagined. On the whole though ... MD schools are still a bit higher, but - again - I've been really surprised how quickly DO schools are closing the gap between the two.

2. Research ... definitely stressed more in MD world because of NIH funding. However, I have been pleasantly surprised at the response I've seen during interviews at DO schools with concern to pushing research. At one school I interviewed at, the dean was able to pull 25 million very recently to vamp up research, at another the school had just established a lot more research and recruited some impressive Ph.Ds to research there. Finally, I was at another school very recently where the school was expanding and adding a lot more facilities for research, so it definitely does exist in the DO world if you want it. I really think research should be dedicated to some through OMM studies at some of these DO schools.

3. Rotations ... it's not hard to find a DO school with great rotations if you do a little bit of research. It is a bit of a hassle to need to look into this so closely while applying, but I've personally been impressed with a lot of the rotations at the schools I looked at. Interviewed at one school where a student ambassador turned down an MD acceptance because of the quality of rotations at this DO school, one that had its 'home hospital' - where it had established residencies - at a Level I Trauma Center, and two that had/owned their own hospitals (one attached to the University). So again, your generalizations are fair ... but exceptions exist, and aren't terribly difficult to find.

4. Prestige ... ehh, blanket statement. The MD title is more 'well known,' withOUT a doubt ... but with multiple DO schools established 100+ years ago, the prestige exists in the DO world. Plus, if prestige is the only factor you are looking for in a medical school ... you really run a high risk of not finding a good match for yourself personally. Irrelevant ... but w/e.

5. Residencies ... good post. I think it's actually currently 54% of DOs in ACGME, but that's nitpicking. It's also fairly important to note in a simple 'can DO do surgery' thread, that there are AOA residencies in all fields (ie ROAD) that are only open to DO applicants.

6. Pay ... misleading response. For the purposes of the OP's question ... DOs and MDs are paid identical. Of course if one's in private practice and the other works for a hospital in the same field then that is different pay, or if one is a PD or head of a department there is a difference, etc. However, this is just analyzing different physician salaries, not a degree issue.
 
Thank you for your answers, and they are really helpful. I just have one more concern. I might move out of the country and practice medicine. Do they recognize both DO degree and MD degree?
 
OK not to stir **** up, and before I say this I will tell you that I applied to DO schools and got into multiple DO schools however I also got into multiple MD schools and waiting on 1 more. My GP is a DO and so is my dad's GI doc. Anyway, I have obviously spoken to all these individuals and others regarding DO because I was sure this was going to be my only shot at med school this year and I really don't care for DO vs. MD, however all of them said the same thing:

If you can get into a US MD school, go for it you will have more opportunities.

Essentially, there are less hoops you have to jump through to get to where you wana go...unless you want PC. And even then, if you want to match ACGME you need to take 2 boards... who wants to do that!
 
doxycycline said:
OK not to stir **** up, and before I say this I will tell you that I applied to DO schools and got into multiple DO schools however I also got into multiple MD schools and waiting on 1 more. My GP is a DO and so is my dad's GI doc. Anyway, I have obviously spoken to all these individuals and others regarding DO because I was sure this was going to be my only shot at med school this year and I really don't care for DO vs. MD, however all of them said the same thing:

If you can get into a US MD school, go for it you will have more opportunities.

Essentially, there are less hoops you have to jump through to get to where you wana go...unless you want PC. And even then, if you want to match ACGME you need to take 2 boards... who wants to do that!
Click to expand...

Ehh, I mean, you'll definitely have a better shot at some uber competitive ACGME residencies, but good luck getting those numbers, and there are AOA residencies in all those fields. I had a discussion with a member on these boards one time about the difference between matching really competitive ACGME vs really competitive AOA, and he had told me that the impression was that ACGME was all about numbers whereas AOA was a lot about numbers too, but the audition rotations, making those connections, and who you were were a HUGE part of it too. I personally really like the idea of that second part. Am I saying this is fact, or anything more than conjecture, or even true??? No, but it's something to keep in mind. Blanket statements all around in my opinion.
 
zetabetazeta said:
Thank you for your answers, and they are really helpful. I just have one more concern. I might move out of the country and practice medicine. Do they recognize both DO degree and MD degree?
Click to expand...

International practice is messy all around. It's a case by case scenario, and it's not easy to do. Keep in mind a few things: 1. It isn't as simple as having an MD from the US means I can practice anywhere (probably easier than the DO, but I'll get into that in a second) 2. A lot of pre-meds are a little bit bold at this point, but chances are that once you finish residency etc, you aren't going to want to gallop off to Africa for a year and practice frontier medicine. You'll probably just want to work and support a family. IE: you probably won't do international work, so don't worry about it. 3. The people who do international work usually do it through a program like Doctors without Boarders (which is realistic and a lot of docs do this, which is very cool), which is very, very receptive to DOs. 4. DOs are fully recognized as complete docs in something like 45 countries.
 
chinocochino said:
1. Hey JaggerPlate, I'm sorry but one must be more objective with the actual data. (I'm going to attending an osteopathic medical school next year--I don't know how to put "MS0" in the personal description)

The average DO matriculant has a 25.5 MCAT and the average MD matriculant has a 30.5. That is a very significant difference. Also, the difference is not "closing quickly"--the DO MCAT average has been relatively stagnant the last few years.

In addition, the average GPA of the DO matriculant (3.55 overall and 3.35 science) is substantially worse than the average MD matriculant. (3.7? for both) Furthermore, the DO average is inflated by the "accepting the most recent grade" and not counting math grades, which, in general, are deleterious for GPA.

2. I'm not saying that DO's are smarter nor that MD's are smarter but the evidence does not lie...I'm also not ashamed to be going to an osteopathic medical school and I would be happy with either MD or DO.

3. Yes, research is much more important at MD schools. In Gevitz's books "The D.O.'s", he states that if all DO schools were considered a single entity, they would only rank like 115th in NIH funding.

4. I agree with your other observations; they both lead to the same end result: Doctor. (well, physician should be used since so many professions call themselves "Doctor" now! :rolleyes:)
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to straight up compare DO averages to MD averages, and here is why ... the large number of new DO schools. These schools, on the whole (I hate making generalizations here, but I will), tend to have lower matriculation stats than the older, more established DO schools. Keep in mind too that there are also a total of 28ish DO schools and a lot of these are new, meaning that each new school that comes in with lower acceptance stats affects the average more significantly than an MD school would, considering that there are something like 130 allopathic schools. If you look at schools like CCOM, DMU, Western, etc ... you'll see stats like a 3.5/28+ which is creeping quite close to the 3.5/30 or newest 3.6/31 given by AAMC.
 
Last cycle TCOM's average was 28. It is true that averages are lower, but I for one am grateful that my application was given a chance. I have a great deal of life experiences to bring to the medical profession, and these experiences were given more consideration at DO schools. As a result, I get to be a physician. I don't want them to change that.
 
chinocochino said:
Just thinking about it more, no, your argument doesn't hold water. KCOM is the oldest DO school and their average MCAT matriculant has a ...25 I believe. PCOM is right around that number, too.

Granted, there are MD schools with very low statistics (Puerto Rican medical schools average, from memory, from 21 to 24) but these are extremes. Even taken into account these lower MCAT scores (not to be inferred as inferior nor less intelligent) the MD averages are still much higher.

Finally, there are DO matriculants that have very high MCATs and GPA's. However, in general, the DO matriculant has a much lower MCAT/GPA. Just look at the objective data.

I'm not hating on DO's (I will be one) but its one thing to argue with facts and another to be qualitative and say that the gap is "small". What does "small" mean? What does "high MCAT score" mean? Relative to what?
Click to expand...

I heard KCOM 28. I stated my case, etc ...
 
chinocochino said:
Just thinking about it more, no, your argument doesn't hold water. KCOM is the oldest DO school and their average MCAT matriculant has a ...25 I believe. PCOM is right around that number, too.

Granted, there are MD schools with very low statistics (Puerto Rican medical schools average, from memory, from 21 to 24) but these are extremes. Even taken into account these lower MCAT scores (not to be inferred as inferior nor less intelligent) the MD averages are still much higher.

Finally, there are DO matriculants that have very high MCATs and GPA's. However, in general, the DO matriculant has a much lower MCAT/GPA. Just look at the objective data.

I'm not hating on DO's (I will be one) but its one thing to argue with facts and another to be qualitative and say that the gap is "small". What does "small" mean? What does "high MCAT score" mean? Relative to what?
Click to expand...

Can you please post your source, because many of these averages have changed in the years past.
 
Daedra22 said:
Last cycle TCOM's average was 28. It is true that averages are lower, but I for one am grateful that my application was given a chance. I have a great deal of life experiences to bring to the medical profession, and these experiences were given more consideration at DO schools. As a result, I get to be a physician. I don't want them to change that.
Click to expand...

This is exactly me as well. I am edging toward a non trad. I had a horrible GPA undergrad...and although I rocked my masters and did well on my MCAT my cum. gpa would still only be a 2.8....bc my ugrad was so low. Most MCAT schools didnt even bother with me because of that...despite the fact that I am older...am licensed as a clinical lab scientist..and have been in the field since 2004. So I am proud to be going DO...and if an MD program couldnt look past grades i got almost a decade ago, and acknowledge my life experience and recent great (75 hrs) worth of academics..I dont want to go there anyway.
 
willen101383 said:
This is exactly me as well. I am edging toward a non trad. I had a horrible GPA undergrad...and although I rocked my masters and did well on my MCAT my cum. gpa would still only be a 2.8....bc my ugrad was so low. Most MCAT schools didnt even bother with me because of that...despite the fact that I am older...am licensed as a clinical lab scientist..and have been in the field since 2004. So I am proud to be going DO...and if an MD program couldnt look past grades i got almost a decade ago, and acknowledge my life experience and recent great (75 hrs) worth of academics..I dont want to go there anyway.
Click to expand...

Amen. What is the difference in age between first year D.O. students and first year M.D. students? I don't know the stats.
 
marshds said:
Amen. What is the difference in age between first year D.O. students and first year M.D. students? I don't know the stats.
Click to expand...

I was wondering this too. I'm on the really young side.... I won't feel out of place will I? I have noticed at a lot of my interviews that a lot of people have families, have been out of school for awhile, etc. Not that I have a problem with that! I just am wondering if there will be enough people who are at my stage of life

P.S. I could very well be joining those who are in the "have families" category by the time I'm done with med school, lol
 
marshds said:
Amen. What is the difference in age between first year D.O. students and first year M.D. students? I don't know the stats.
Click to expand...


For MD schools it's around 24, DO schools tend to be slightly higher because of a larger number of nontrads (I'm guessing around 27..). But it varies from school to school, and from year to year.
 
MN premed said:
I was wondering this too. I'm on the really young side.... I won't feel out of place will I? I have noticed at a lot of my interviews that a lot of people have families, have been out of school for awhile, etc. Not that I have a problem with that! I just am wondering if there will be enough people who are at my stage of life
Click to expand...


Most med students (MD or DO) will be in their early to mid 20s. There's a reason why older applicants are called "nontraditional"....

From my experience on the interview trail, 95% of the people there were around my age (I'm 23).
 
Black Adder said:
For MD schools it's around 24, DO schools tend to be slightly higher because of a larger number of nontrads (I'm guessing around 27..). But it varies from school to school, and from year to year.
Click to expand...

I think that is about right. Most of the people I interviewed with were around my age..27...

You can see the difference in student when you interview at DO or MD. DO interviewees seem to be more mature, have lives, hobbies....a genuine interest in patient care. Without making generalizations many MD interviewees seem all frazzled...on edge....trying to brag about their grades and undergrad accomplishments. (while all the older interviewees are thinking OMFG STFU nobody cares about what you did in undergrad in real life!!!!!)

Just look at the difference in content on the Pre DO vs Pre MD forum. The threads on this side seem way more civilized and mature for the most part....while over there they are making posts like "omg dudez would u guys eat a hot dog made of poop in order to get into hopkins," or "omg I got one single B in a class I am going to cry, how are my horrible indian parents going to allow me to live, I am letting down everyone I know and even my professors." :rolleyes: yeahok My entire undergrad career was filled with Bs and Cs and even lower....keep it movin
 
I don't think I've met anyone my age yet at an interview - I'm 20. I couldn't even gamble when I was in Vegas for my Touro interview :rolleyes: lol
 
willen101383 said:
I think that is about right. Most of the people I interviewed with were around my age..27...

You can see the difference in student when you interview at DO or MD. DO interviewees seem to be more mature, have lives, hobbies....a genuine interest in patient care. Without making generalizations many MD interviewees seem all frazzled...on edge....trying to brag about their grades and undergrad accomplishments. (while all the older interviewees are thinking OMFG STFU nobody cares about what you did in undergrad in real life!!!!!)

Just look at the difference in content on the Pre DO vs Pre MD forum. The threads on this side seem way more civilized and mature for the most part....while over there they are making posts like "omg dudez would u guys eat a hot dog made of poop in order to get into hopkins," or "omg I got one single B in a class I am going to cry, how are my horrible indian parents going to allow me to live, I am letting down everyone I know and even my professors." :rolleyes: yeahok My entire undergrad career was filled with Bs and Cs and even lower....keep it movin
Click to expand...


:laugh: wow this post is funny. Whats really funny is that you say "without making generalizations..."
 
Last edited:
What does everyone think of Obama's healthcare bill?
 
chinocochino said:
1. I don't have the exact links but the above statistics are from memory. The 25.5 average for the MCAT is from the Osteopathic Information Booklet. The KCOM average was about 25 based on the sheet that the school gave me in the mail.

I can't post the exact sources right now--need to go to work. However, one can find them online.

2. TUCOM-CA has an average of 28 according to their website--I *think* that they are only 10 years old.
Click to expand...

CA schools always have inflated stats because it's absurdly competitive and people will do whatever it takes to stay in CA. If you read some of the opinions concerning TU-MI's 3/4 years to KCOM 3/4, you'll see which one is easily more established. I guess my 'age = higher stats' has been debunked. I know there is a trend somewhere (way too lazy to find atm), and I do know that for MANY individuals schools, the gap is closing rapidly (like TU MI for example).
 
DrMaximus said:
Hey guys,

I'm really curious what the difference is in these two fields of study, so if someone can give me a little more insight, I would very much appreciate it.

Also, can you do surgery as a DO?
Click to expand...

Go on the AOA website under find a DO, there are plenty of DOs working as surgeons.
 
Black Adder said:
For MD schools it's around 24, DO schools tend to be slightly higher because of a larger number of nontrads (I'm guessing around 27..). But it varies from school to school, and from year to year.
Click to expand...

Average age of some of the main DO schools:

CCOM: 24
PCOM: 24
KCOM: 25
TCOM: 25
TOUROCOM: 24
DMUCOM: 25
KCUMB: 24.6
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

N
Are there different pre-med steps I should take, compared to MD?
Replies
2
Views
525
Goro
Goro
The Premed Geek
My mentor wants to Cold Call, should they or not?
Replies
7
Views
825
The Premed Geek
The Premed Geek
N
Do disadvantaged applicants get evaluated any differently?
Replies
1
Views
757
Goro
Goro
P
If you shadowed with a foreign doctor can they write your LOR?
Replies
8
Views
1K
Doc_Ock
Doc_Ock
P
  • Locked
Applying to DO schools after failing out of US MD school with competetive stats
2
Replies
91
Views
8K
Rxbound
Rxbound
Top