DO NOT tell me to take the DO route if...

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wheyprotein

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Hey, everyone.

I just wanted to start this post to rant a little. Like the vast majority of the posts that deal with osteopathic medicine and the DO option, I begin by making the politically correct statement of acknowledging that there is nothing wrong with the DO option and that DOs make great doctos.

Having said that, I want to harshly criticize every pre-allopathic student, every allopathic student, and every allopathic physician who goes around and assures struggling pre-allos to consider the DO route. While there is inherently wrong in this piece of advice, the individuals who I want to criticize are those who give this piece of advice but themselves would NEVER IN 10^6 YEARS consider the osteopathic option! You all know who you are! Why offer this advice to students when you know that you, yourself, would have never went the DO route! Shut up and let people achieve what they want to achieve! Man!
 
If you don't want advice then don't come in here for some.
 
My post wasn't asking for advice. It was simply a rant. And the allos that I am referring to are the ones I see on a daily basis in real life, not those on SDN.
 
wheyprotein said:
Hey, everyone.

I just wanted to start this post to rant a little. Like the vast majority of the posts that deal with osteopathic medicine and the DO option, I begin by making the politically correct statement of acknowledging that there is nothing wrong with the DO option and that DOs make great doctos.

Having said that, I want to harshly criticize every pre-allopathic student, every allopathic student, and every allopathic physician who goes around and assures struggling pre-allos to consider the DO route. While there is inherently wrong in this piece of advice, the individuals who I want to criticize are those who give this piece of advice but themselves would NEVER IN 10^6 YEARS consider the osteopathic option! You all know who you are! Why offer this advice to students when you know that you, yourself, would have never went the DO route! Shut up and let people achieve what they want to achieve! Man!
Click to expand...

Someone call the wahhhhmbulance. You don't know that those MDs would have never gone the DO route in "10^6 years" because they obviously got into an allopathic school and didn't have to consider the DO option. If they had only gotten into a DO school and instead chose a different career, or if they chose an allopathic school that cost $60k a year over an osteopathic school that cost a fraction (scholarships or whatever), then you'd be justified, but they didn't, so you're not.
 
Save your breath, this tread will get closed soon anyways
 
Despite your disclaimer, the assumption here is one shared by a lot of allo and pre-allo physicians, and that is osteopathy as "allopathy lite". Yes, there is some basis for that (slightly relaxed admissions standards, etc) but certainly not to the extent that it should be treated as the reject's path to medicine. I know several incredibly bright, capable people who could have gotten into mid and top-tier med schools but are taking the DO route because they find themselves more aligned with its philosophy. I can only imagine how insulting the old "Well, if all else fails, just be a DO" schtick must be for them, let alone some being upset because people suggest it as an alternative to taking the MD route.
 
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Hey, JackInTheBox,

When all those allos and pre-allos who go around and tell struggling students to consider the DO option, I ask them: "Hey, would you have considered the DO option?" About 75% of the time, there is this pause and a brief stutter that clearly shouts out, "Damn, he caught me..." And no matter what BS answer they give after I ask them my question, I can tell that they are full of crap.
 
maybe because the DO route is a great option... :shrug: I mean have you even seen a match list at a DO school?
 
I personally seriously considered the DO route. I even had the AACOMAS all filled out, but not submitted. Then I got my MCAT score back, figured that if it didn't get me into an allo school nothing would, and decided to not apply DO.

The fact that I'm not applying DO doesn't mean that I can't recognize when a "struggling pre-allo" would be best served by considering the option. I have some associates in real life I've talked about it with even...
 
Maybe the op is pissed off that so many Allo students are switching over to DO because of the competition here....Thus increasing the competition for the DO route...😕
 
wheyprotein said:
Hey, JackInTheBox,

When all those allos and pre-allos who go around and tell struggling students to consider the DO option, I ask them: "Hey, would you have considered the DO option?" About 75% of the time, there is this pause and a brief stutter that clearly shouts out, "Damn, he caught me..." And no matter what BS answer they give after I ask them my question, I can tell that they are full of crap.
Click to expand...

Well let's think of it a different way. Maybe they know that a DO is an alternative to an MD, so they're just throwing it out there, but they never really were forced to sit down and consider it for themselves (i.e. they got into an allopathic school on their first try). It's not that they think less of DOs, they just never had to think about it before. It would be like someone who had never rehearsed their answer for "why medicine?" In their heads, they know why they want to be a doctor, but their answer would come out a stuttering, jumbled mess because they'd never stopped to think about how to express it.
 
I agree with the OP to an extent. But what's the alternative? Tell them to give up on med school? Or tell them to consider nursing school? Next thing you know, nursing students will have the same argument with us.
 
That is possible, i mean the OP seems to have an idea that getting into a DO school is easy...Its not a back door to getting a medical degree. You still have to work to get into a DO school. The competition and stats of students going into DO schools are increasing drastically.

^=^ said:
Maybe the op is pissed off that so many Allo students are switching over to DO because of the competition here....Thus increasing the competition for the DO route...😕
Click to expand...
 
People just need to learn how to read - specificially, the name of this sub-forum.

Bringing up DO schools when someone is asking for advice on navigating the MD route is just rude. Now if someone asks, "MD schools might not work out for me, what are my other options?" that's different.

Also, IBTL.
 
wheyprotein said:
Hey, everyone.

I just wanted to start this post to rant a little. Like the vast majority of the posts that deal with osteopathic medicine and the DO option, I begin by making the politically correct statement of acknowledging that there is nothing wrong with the DO option and that DOs make great doctos.

Having said that, I want to harshly criticize every pre-allopathic student, every allopathic student, and every allopathic physician who goes around and assures struggling pre-allos to consider the DO route. While there is inherently wrong in this piece of advice, the individuals who I want to criticize are those who give this piece of advice but themselves would NEVER IN 10^6 YEARS consider the osteopathic option! You all know who you are! Why offer this advice to students when you know that you, yourself, would have never went the DO route! Shut up and let people achieve what they want to achieve! Man!
Click to expand...

Huh?

For some people, I would advise them that buying a house is a better financial decision than renting an apartment. That doesn't mean that I would buy a house instead of renting an apartment. Everyone's situation is not the same, so the best advice or the best path may not be the same for the person giving advice as it is for the person receiving the advice.

Just because one person wouldn't do what they are advising doesn't mean the advice is wrong or void. Maybe your resume is not as competitive for allopathic schools and osteopathic is the practical option, don't be upset with others when you are really upset with yourself.

Earth to Wheyprotein: Not every human being is the same. Just because one person wouldn't attend an osteopathic school doesn't mean that you shouldn't attend one or that it isn't a good option for you.
 
wheyprotein said:
Hey, everyone.

I just wanted to start this post to rant a little. Like the vast majority of the posts that deal with osteopathic medicine and the DO option, I begin by making the politically correct statement of acknowledging that there is nothing wrong with the DO option and that DOs make great doctos.

Having said that, I want to harshly criticize every pre-allopathic student, every allopathic student, and every allopathic physician who goes around and assures struggling pre-allos to consider the DO route. While there is inherently wrong in this piece of advice, the individuals who I want to criticize are those who give this piece of advice but themselves would NEVER IN 10^6 YEARS consider the osteopathic option! You all know who you are! Why offer this advice to students when you know that you, yourself, would have never went the DO route! Shut up and let people achieve what they want to achieve! Man!
Click to expand...

I recommend people pursue DO schools if they aren't competitive for MD schools simply because it is a good alternative that will allow a graduate of those programs to become a licensed practicing physician.

Yes, there are more hassles such as double the licensing examinations if you wish to pursue a MD residency and extra class time learning OMM which you may not use. But in the end, you're still a doctor.

I myself applied to/interviewed at and held an acceptance at a DO school, planning to attend until I was pulled from the waitlist at my current institution.

Perhaps I am not the person you are addressing in your original post, but if there are people like me who legitimately have applied to DO schools and believe it is a good option, why shouldn't we give that advice?

If we can give that advice, why can't other people give that advice?
 
JackInTheBox said:
Well let's think of it a different way. Maybe they know that a DO is an alternative to an MD, so they're just throwing it out there, but they never really were forced to sit down and consider it for themselves (i.e. they got into an allopathic school on their first try). It's not that they think less of DOs, they just never had to think about it before. It would be like someone who had never rehearsed their answer for "why medicine?" In their heads, they know why they want to be a doctor, but their answer would come out a stuttering, jumbled mess because they'd never stopped to think about how to express it.
Click to expand...

agree with this post.

I didn't consider applying DO my first time around, and I would have if I needed to reapply.

If people want to become physicians, then there are currently two options: MD or DO. I see no problem with people suggesting DO programs to people that do not have quite the stats to get into MD programs.
 
Depakote said:
Perhaps I am not the person you are addressing in your original post, but if there are people like me who legitimately have applied to DO schools and believe it is a good option, why shouldn't we give that advice?

If we can give that advice, why can't other people give that advice?
Click to expand...
Because most of the time people aren't actually asking for advice on what degree they should pursue. It drives me insane when someone makes a WAMC/School choice thread in pre-allo and they get flooded with replies to "try DO." Of course, none of these people actually want to give them practical advice like, you know, which osteo schools they would be competitive for, similarities/differences with MD application process etc. Always a smug one-liner.
 
stixx said:
Because most of the time people aren't actually asking for advice on what degree they should pursue. It drives me insane when someone makes a WAMC/School choice thread in pre-allo and they get flooded with replies to "try DO." Of course, none of these people actually want to give them practical advice like, you know, which osteo schools they would be competitive for, similarities/differences with MD application process etc. Always a smug one-liner.
Click to expand...
There is a WAMC in pre-osteo. Once they are told consider DO, they can go to the applicable board.
 
Bacchus said:
There is a WAMC in pre-osteo. Once they are told consider DO, they can go to the applicable board.
Click to expand...
Well certainly, and I'm sure most people expect that there's the same sort of support system over at pre-DO as we have here. But since they're choosing to post here I think that says something about their preferences.
 
I recommend it to people sometimes, and I have no problem with it personally. I considered it (my dad is a DO), particularly going to PCOM, where my dad went. The only reason I'm not doing it is expense + possible prejudice. I just wanted to leave my options as open as possible. Many of the doctors I have shadowed were DOs, and they have been amazing (including an ortho surgeon).
 
This thread is just stupid all around. People who truly bash on DO are 18 year old freshman in college who seriously get off thinking about GPA and MCAT scores. They are f*cking losers and could not be more out of touch with reality. The truth is that there are, in some cases, more obstacles for DOs. Namely those shooting for competitive MD residencies or becoming extremely specialized. However, the truth is that it is difficult for MD students as well. Anyone who thinks that they can attend an MD school, score low on USMLE, have crappy LORs, and still land an integrated plastics residency JUST because they went to a US MD school is just as delusional as the DO student who rocks everything, but thinks they will be forced into an IM residency because they went the DO route. People also need to realize that there are VARIOUS reasons for going DO above MD. People choose schools based on cost, location, the atmosphere of the student body, etc etc. NOT simply because they had SLIGHTLY lower stats or screwed up in undergrad. These assumptions are just wrong, and represent the ignorance of the people who make them. Most people who bash DO schools truly know nothing about it.

NOW ... on the other side of the card ... there are people who are superrrr pro DO and ignore some pretty basic facts. First, the difference in philosophy thing is bull****, and it isolates a lot of people who would be more supportive of DO schools. DOs do not treat patients better than MDs. There may be some deep routed, OLDER differences, but today both practice western medicine and with the exception of OMM -which an unfortunately small number of DOs use - MDs and DOs are identical in practice. It's also foolish to assume that a DO will be able to land any MD residency because, let's face it, they are MD residencies. People also need to be careful with certain DO schools when it comes to clinical rotations.

Bottom line: DO schools provide an excellent medical education. If your end goal is to become a DOCTOR, an MD or DO will provide you a path to complete your goal. I just wanted to state that I am applying to both, and really have no preference. People need to quit making assumptions for whatever reason and just go to medical school. If the DO route is the option that works out for you, get your god damn DO, don't bitch about it, don't care what some acne faced 18 year old pre med says, and practice medicine. If you choose to take the MD route, don't feel like you need to put DOs down for entertainment on a Friday night, just practice medicine.
 
pete13 said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with Charles Barkley telling a 5'8" white kid to maybe consider soccer...
Click to expand...

:laugh: I couldn't have said it any better

For some people, DO is really the only option. If an applicant has a 4.0 and a 38 MCAT, they really don't even need to consider DO schools because they're pretty much a lock for a MD school. But would it be wrong if said person tells a 2.9, 27, applicant to strongly consider going the DO route, even though he never had to consider the DO path himself?
 
Are you okay with people who tell you to go the Caribbean or European route?

Seriously, those people didn't consider DO themselves because they didn't need to. What really ticks you off is that you're a struggling pre-med and you're tired of people telling you you're "not good enough". Stop worrying so much about other people think. If you want to practice medicine and know you're capable then do what you have to to get in. Get the grades, do the post-bac, SMP, whatever, apply and stop taking things so personally.
 
JaggerPlate said:
This thread is just stupid all around. People who truly bash on DO are 18 year old freshman in college who seriously get off thinking about GPA and MCAT scores. They are f*cking losers and could not be more out of touch with reality.
Click to expand...

nuff' said
 
pete13 said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with Charles Barkley telling a 5'8" white kid to maybe consider soccer...
Click to expand...

Good thing Mugsy Bogues didn't listen to the 10^6 people who told him he was too short.


It just makes people feel better to disqualify other people. Disregard it.
 
gatorsbball said:
:laugh: I couldn't have said it any better

For some people, DO is really the only option. If an applicant has a 4.0 and a 38 MCAT, they really don't even need to consider DO schools because they're pretty much a lock for a MD school. But would it be wrong if said person tells a 2.9, 27, applicant to strongly consider going the DO route, even though he never had to consider the DO path himself?
Click to expand...
2.9 is an anomaly in any application. Bad example, but I get whatchu mean.
 
JaggerPlate said:
This thread is just stupid all around. People who truly bash on DO are 18 year old freshman in college who seriously get off thinking about GPA and MCAT scores. They are f*cking losers and could not be more out of touch with reality. .
Click to expand...
True, everyone knows if you can't get into MD school you apply to dental school.
 
Wylde said:
Huh?

For some people, I would advise them that buying a house is a better financial decision than renting an apartment. That doesn't mean that I would buy a house instead of renting an apartment. Everyone's situation is not the same, so the best advice or the best path may not be the same for the person giving advice as it is for the person receiving the advice.

Just because one person wouldn't do what they are advising doesn't mean the advice is wrong or void. Maybe your resume is not as competitive for allopathic schools and osteopathic is the practical option, don't be upset with others when you are really upset with yourself.

Earth to Wheyprotein: Not every human being is the same. Just because one person wouldn't attend an osteopathic school doesn't mean that you shouldn't attend one or that it isn't a good option for you.
Click to expand...

i agree. i filled out amcas and tmdsas because i was familiar with what an allo school was. i thought about DO because of the philosophy and considered turning in the AAOMCAS, but frankly once the MD interviews started rolling in I got lazy and decided to save my money.

that doesn't mean i think less of DO schools or DOs. my circumstances did not force me to consider a DO school as seriously as some others might have to. i'm sure a lot of people suggesting the DO option are in the same position.
 
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Bacchus said:
2.9 is an anomaly in any application. Bad example, but I get whatchu mean.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree, it was a bad example. I wasn't trying to imply that DO schools are full of people with horrible scores or anything. But just that it seems DO schools tend to be a little more forgiving, numbers wise.
 
wheyprotein said:
Hey, JackInTheBox,

When all those allos and pre-allos who go around and tell struggling students to consider the DO option, I ask them: "Hey, would you have considered the DO option?" About 75% of the time, there is this pause and a brief stutter that clearly shouts out, "Damn, he caught me..." And no matter what BS answer they give after I ask them my question, I can tell that they are full of crap.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you come up with this crap. Many/(most?) average/below average allopathic applicants ALSO apply to DO schools. I don't think many/any students or doctors will tell you apply ONLY to DO schools (unless your stats are much below average, in which case they are trying to save you the time and money from applying MD)... they usually tell you to consider applying to DO ALSO (aka as in a back up). I personally applied to both, so maybe that gives me the right to give that as advice. My first choice was MD school (regardless of cost, location etc), but I would have taken DO school over nothing in a heart beat (let alone 1,000,000 years). If your stats are below average or hardly average, yes, you will be advised to apply to BOTH or wait and apply after improving your application.
 
Last edited:
lazymed said:
I don't know where you come up with this crap. Many/(most?) average/below average allopathic applicants ALSO apply to DO schools. I don't think many/any students or doctors will tell you apply ONLY to DO schools (unless your stats are much below average, in which case they are trying to save you the time and money from applying MD)... they usually tell you to consider applying to DO ALSO (aka as in a back up). I personally applied to both, so maybe that gives me the right to give that as advice. My first choice was MD school (regardless of cost, location etc), but I would have taken DO school over nothing in a heart beat (let alone 1,000,000) years. If your stats are below average or hardly average, yes, you will be advised to apply to BOTH or wait and apply after improving your application.
Click to expand...

Very well put, honest, and I think sums up, in a fair way, a lot of people's reasoning while applying MD and DO. 👍
 
OP: just to make you mad, here's my advice to you....

take the DO route 👍
:laugh::laugh:
 
Don't see the big deal. If people want to do be doctors, I'd certainly give them all options which allow them to become doctors. If they don't want to consider my advice, that's their business.
 
wheyprotein said:
Hey, everyone.

I just wanted to start this post to rant a little. Like the vast majority of the posts that deal with osteopathic medicine and the DO option, I begin by making the politically correct statement of acknowledging that there is nothing wrong with the DO option and that DOs make great doctos.

Having said that, I want to harshly criticize every pre-allopathic student, every allopathic student, and every allopathic physician who goes around and assures struggling pre-allos to consider the DO route. While there is inherently wrong in this piece of advice, the individuals who I want to criticize are those who give this piece of advice but themselves would NEVER IN 10^6 YEARS consider the osteopathic option! You all know who you are! Why offer this advice to students when you know that you, yourself, would have never went the DO route! Shut up and let people achieve what they want to achieve! Man!
Click to expand...
STFU-Stop_Posting.jpg
 
wheyprotein said:
Why offer this advice to students when you know that you, yourself, would have never went the DO route! Shut up and let people achieve what they want to achieve! Man!
Click to expand...

*sniff, sniff*

:cry::cry:

Your story is so heartbreaking its really touched me in a profound way. You have people from every direction attempting to crush your hopes and dreams. 🙁. They're calling you a fat ****ing failure and condemming you to a life of sweeping floors and playing a harmonica on the subway. You seriously might want to consider diving in front of a train while you're down there.

🙁
 
I once asked an ER doc who was a DO what she liked best about the osteopathic philosophy. I was only trying to make conversation. Her reply was so blunt it surprised me, however.

"Nothing really appealed to me about osteopathy. I just didn't get into any allopathy schools. I figured I'd be a good doctor no matter what, so I decided not to let it bother me. The only students at my school were the ones who either have family members who were DOs or who didn't get into MD schools."

On the other hand, one of the ER nurses was applying to DO school specifically because he liked osteopathy. He told me that they take all the same courses as the MD, plus a course on manipulation.

From what I gathered, DO coursework is probably no better or worse than MD, but since it's less competitive to get in, that sends a market signal. If it's all the same to you if you go to John Hopkins or Loyola or anyplace else, going to an osteopathy school shouldn't make much difference either.
 
Adam Smasher said:
I once asked an ER doc who was a DO what she liked best about the osteopathic philosophy. I was only trying to make conversation. Her reply was so blunt it surprised me, however.

"Nothing really appealed to me about osteopathy. I just didn't get into any allopathy schools. I figured I'd be a good doctor no matter what, so I decided not to let it bother me. The only students at my school were the ones who either have family members who were DOs or who didn't get into MD schools."

On the other hand, one of the ER nurses was applying to DO school specifically because he liked osteopathy. He told me that they take all the same courses as the MD, plus a course on manipulation.

From what I gathered, DO coursework is probably no better or worse than MD, but since it's less competitive to get in, that sends a market signal. If it's all the same to you if you go to John Hopkins or Loyola or anyplace else, going to an osteopathy school shouldn't make much difference either.
Click to expand...
This is why DO shouldn't be a "backup." Goes to show some people are just meh.
 
Adam Smasher said:
I once asked an ER doc who was a DO what she liked best about the osteopathic philosophy. I was only trying to make conversation. Her reply was so blunt it surprised me, however.

"Nothing really appealed to me about osteopathy. I just didn't get into any allopathy schools. I figured I'd be a good doctor no matter what, so I decided not to let it bother me. The only students at my school were the ones who either have family members who were DOs or who didn't get into MD schools."

On the other hand, one of the ER nurses was applying to DO school specifically because he liked osteopathy. He told me that they take all the same courses as the MD, plus a course on manipulation.

From what I gathered, DO coursework is probably no better or worse than MD, but since it's less competitive to get in, that sends a market signal. If it's all the same to you if you go to John Hopkins or Loyola or anyplace else, going to an osteopathy school shouldn't make much difference either.
Click to expand...

Unless you end up loving a really competitive speciality, because it just became more competitive (note: I didn't say impossible).
 
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