DO now or MD in 1-2 years?

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I havent sent out the secondary yet. and Im shadowing a DO currently. My committee letter took a while but I was complete by nearly every school on 10/1/07 and definately by 10/15/07

Well, you may get lucky, but it is pretty late in the game here. You may be better off simply reapplying next year for the best choices and chances, if you aren't accepted anywhere this time. Heck, if attending an allopathic medical school is ultimately your goal, then take a year off and fix whatever the problem with our application initially was. You need to feel out what you really want. And like I said before, there are no guarantees, even despite lower admissions statistics for osteopathic medical schools, particularly this late in the game.
 
Those 44 vs. 94%s matching into programs stats look pretty convincing to me. I'll take my chances to next year and apply both MD and DO and choose MD if I can.
 
Mmm, admittedly, there is a lot of truth to that... All ACGME doors are not exactly closed if one chooses an osteopathic medical school, not by a long shot. That's all I'm saying.

Nobody said they are closed. But if it's a choice between hard and harder, why pick harder? That's all I'm saying.
 
Nobody said they are closed. But if it's a choice between hard and harder, why pick harder? That's all I'm saying.

Oh well, as a general rule, I can't really argue with that principle. Assuming, of course, that a given situation came down to that fundamental choice.
 
The OP applied fairly late, that's evident. Without knowing him personally, and going just off his mdapps, he probably would've had some success applying much earlier.

Maybe I'm just watering it down, but that seems to be the biggest problem. I know people with very similar stats/activities who at this moment are trying to decide between the 3-5 MD schools that accepted them. They applies in June and were complete in July/August. Again, watering down, but something to ponder.
 
Go where YOU will feel you can do the best at. Forget about DO vs. MD thing for now....we can be on here all day going back and forth with statistics or hypothetical situations on chances on matching into certain residencies.

In the end you're going to be a physician. From all my interactions with physicians (MD and DO, either through family friends, or shadowing) I've never encountered stigma towards DO. I'm sure it does exist, most likely among older generations of MDs and in some ivory tower academic settings.

I'm originally from the Orlando area and staying in Florida was a big deal to me. I don't like Miami, and the idea of moving after 2 years at FSU med school wasn't high in my mind, so I was focused on staying around this area. That mattered more to me than getting into a highly research oriented MD program. Depends what is important to you.

I think we have a great school here with incredibly smart students. To a great degree everyone is basically thrown on a level playing field once med school starts. We have a couple PhDs, bunch of kids w/ masters, 2nd career non-trads, those that were in other health fields before (I think even a PA), etc..... and it was surprising to me, at least, just how much nothing else really mattered besides the ability to study hard and consistently.

UCF should soon be starting to accept apps for '09 cycle, right? Have you talked with some of the admissions people there? You're already there, take advantage of that access and the fact that you seemed to be fairly involved @ UCF. If you haven't already, go talk with Mr. Larkin (REL on here), he used to be over at USF and is a really nice guy and will be honest with you.
 
I think that the comment was probably referring to MD vers DO, and not age. Either way though this topic has the potential to quickly turn into a flame war. I do not think either age or MD/DO degree can be generalized to imply different degrees of intellectual stimulation. But certainly different schools may offer different types of learning environments via program styles, philosophies of learning, facilities, and a myriad of other considerations. My advice to the OP would be to look closely at all of the schools he is considering (MD or DO) and see if something stands out. The key really is to gather as much information as possible and then make an informed decision. Of course, into this consideration is the time factor of whether to wait or apply now. Unless you have specific circumstances that are pressing, I would suggest viewing time as secondary to figuring out your specific goals.

For instance, I chose to pursue MD instead of DO largely on the basis of differences in philosophy between the two programs. There were aspects of the DO approach that didn't fit/feel right for me. It is not worse or better, just a different fit for me. Many others have chosen DO for the same reasons. As a non-trad, time was important to me but was much less of a factor than figuring out exactly what I wanted. Likewise, you need to find out what fits best for you and work things out accordingly. Best of luck to everyone.

You chose Drexel in the end, correct?

Must have scared you when there was talk of losing accreditation :meanie:

Just kidding... PCOM vs Drexel would have been a very, very difficult decision for me. Luckily, Drexel admissions made that for me lol
 
I don't know about you, but no medical student I've ever encountered even mentions MCAT/uGPA any more. If they do at your school, you must attend a crazy competitive school. Once you are in, you are in; the rest is up to you.

No but when I was in post-bac/SMP it did come up since everyone was vying for a spot in med school. On average, those with lower MCATs couldn't handle the work. The work was essentially the first year medical curriculum.

Can you really say that point-for-point, above a certain reference level, that there is a profound difference in success? If so, I'd like to see those statistics. All the studies that I've come across state that there are too many factors to consider.

Point for point no but if I were to make 2 group those with a 25-27 vs 33-35 I would put a ton of money on the second group. To say that MCAT has no predictive value is utterly absurd.

The R value I found for most studies was around .65 which is a tremendous correlation when you consider the multitude of other factors that are involved in med school performance.

I will agree there is not causal relationship between MCAT and performance. This is mainly because what causes MCAT score and performance in med school are highly linked (preparation and intelligence).


i hope im not to bold to say, but i think the stats will be increasingly similar between DO/MD programs. i think DO will soon have the same stats as low to mid tier MD programs. im interested in CCOM and i know that their average gpa i think is like a 3.5 and the average mcat is a 26. i mean thats 4 points lower than UIC's average mcat but not that far and i wouldnt doubt it if they raise the standards every year for CCOM. (bear in mind ccom is just an example of 1 DO school)

First allopathic enrollment is going to increase by around 30% in the next decade or so. The tiering system between the allopathic world and the osteopathic world isnt going to disappear.

26 vs a 30 is a world of difference.

Nobody said [allopathic residencies] are closed [to DOs]. But if it's a choice between hard and harder, why pick harder? That's all I'm saying.
👍
 
...the average mcat is a 26. i mean thats 4 points lower than UIC's average mcat but not that far...

Because of the way the MCAT is curved the difference between a 26 and a 30 is huge. Really huge: 24 percentile points huge. (That's a difference of about 1/4 of the entire MCAT pool.)

Around about 28-30, each scaled score point is worth a lot more percentile points than say around 36-38.

The difference between a 26 and a 30 is far greater (24 percentile points) than the difference between a 36 and 40 (3 percentile points).

This is why I think that your chances at an MD school are hurt if you got below a 30. That 30 is good bit better than say a 28 or a 27. The difference is much more palpable than the difference between a 36 and a 38 and Adcoms are aware of this.

EDIT: This comment is in no way insinuating who is better (DO vs. MD). I don't really believe that Grades and MCAT will necessarily have any bearing on the quality of physician that you are. I don't think there is any rational way to justify that someone with a 3.2 is going to be a significantly worse doctor than someone with a 3.5, simliarly, I don't feel that someone with a 27MCAT is necessarily going to be worse than someone with a 30 MCAT. The post I made is just a plain fact. Those are the percentiles for different scores on the MCAT, and the ADCOMS are aware of those facts. That's it...not implying anything more or less.
How the Adcoms want to use those numbers to decide who is, and is not going to attend their school is completely up to them. I didn't decide the rules, I just have to play by them like everyone else on this forum.
 
definitely applied late in the game...wait an extra year and do something productive. Don't think of it as a setback, just use the time to do something you would have liked to do, improve your application, and apply again next year. This time don't even bother submitting to those faaaar reach schools and just apply to places you would have a legit chance at.
 
Some input,

PCOM's averages are now up to the following:

3.6
29 MCAT

I think in the near future they will get closer, but will not match.

And in regards to the 68% matching, you have to remember that if they applied to both DO and MD residencies and then matched DO they are automatically pulled from the Allo match.

Have fun jerking yourselves off arguing who is better.....This just gives me more motivation to study harder and harder. Keep it up 👍
 
And in regards to the 68% matching, you have to remember that if they applied to both DO and MD residencies and then matched DO they are automatically pulled from the Allo match.

That's true.

2007 Match Data:
Osteopaths - 2,398 (100.0%)
Withdrew - 606 (25.3%)
No Ranking - 140 (5.8%)
Active Applicants - 1,652 (100.0%)
Matched - 1,136 (68.8%)
Unmatched - 516 (31.2%)
 
Some input,

PCOM's averages are now up to the following:

3.6
29 MCAT

Where did you see this at? I'm probably missing something on the site, can someone point me in the right direction, cause the only thing I see at PCOM's admissions site is:

Q. Who attends PCOM?
A. In 2004, the entering D.O. Class of 2007 consisted of 254 first-time students from 136 different colleges and 27 states. The average class GPA was 3.38, the science GPA was 3.45 and the mean MCAT score was 24. Students averaged 24 years of age; 56 percent are women and 20 percent are under-represented minorities. PCOM encourages nontraditional students. In the entering class, 21 percent have graduate degrees, 28 percent have had other careers and six percent are military veterans.

But that's for 2004, so it's obviously dated and it would make sense that their admissions numbers would increase. This site is more up to date it appears, being updated in 2006, but it lists PCOM as having a 24.55.

And the US News 07-08 lists PCOM as:
Average undergraduate GPA: 3.3

MCAT
Overall score (composite): 8.0
Verbal reasoning: 8.2
Physical sciences: 7.6
Biological: 8.3
But I think the US News underreports, because they list MSUCHM as a 28, Wayne as a 29, and MSUCOM as a 25 on the mcat...and all 3 im pretty sure are higher than that. So, can someone satisfy my curiosity and provide a link to the MSAR DO version (if one exists), I can't seem to find it. Thanks in advance.
 
No but when I was in post-bac/SMP it did come up since everyone was vying for a spot in med school. On average, those with lower MCATs couldn't handle the work. The work was essentially the first year medical curriculum.

So, why is it, if on average these statistics are lower for osteopathic medical school matriculants, that osteopathic medical students do fine, and sometimes exceptionally, in medical school and beyond? Why is it not absurd for someone with a lower MCAT score to perform better in medical school than someone who scored higher? There must be something even more significant at play. I know this is completely anecdotal, but I don't necessarily see a strong correlation between MCAT score and the top students in my class. I don't see very many of my colleagues at school struggling exceptionally, at least not more than I expect.

Point for point no but if I were to make 2 group those with a 25-27 vs 33-35 I would put a ton of money on the second group. To say that MCAT has no predictive value is utterly absurd.

The R value I found for most studies was around .65 which is a tremendous correlation when you consider the multitude of other factors that are involved in med school performance.

I will agree there is not causal relationship between MCAT and performance. This is mainly because what causes MCAT score and performance in med school are highly linked (preparation and intelligence).

I never said there was no correlation, I said the correlation was moderate. Anyway, this conversation is pretty tiresome. This may not be absolutely true, but it just seem like to me that it is always the same, or similar people making the same, or similar arguments. And I'm probably one of those guys. :laugh:

I think talking about MCAT at this stage in my game is worthless. Let's talk about the boards (not on this thread, of course).
 
and

U.S.SeniorStudents 15,667 100
Withdrew 362 2.3
NoRanking 99 0.6
ActiveApplicants 15,206 100
MatchedPGY-1 14,201 93.4
UnmatchedPGY-1 1,005 6.6

thanks for the stats
 
i am interested in this as well. thanks!

Where did you see this at? I'm probably missing something on the site, can someone point me in the right direction, cause the only thing I see at PCOM's admissions site is:
Q. Who attends PCOM?
A. In 2004, the entering D.O. Class of 2007 consisted of 254 first-time students from 136 different colleges and 27 states. The average class GPA was 3.38, the science GPA was 3.45 and the mean MCAT score was 24. Students averaged 24 years of age; 56 percent are women and 20 percent are under-represented minorities. PCOM encourages nontraditional students. In the entering class, 21 percent have graduate degrees, 28 percent have had other careers and six percent are military veterans.

But that's for 2004, so it's obviously dated and it would make sense that their admissions numbers would increase. This site is more up to date it appears, being updated in 2006, but it lists PCOM as having a 24.55.

And the US News 07-08 lists PCOM as:
Average undergraduate GPA: 3.3

MCAT
Overall score (composite): 8.0
Verbal reasoning: 8.2
Physical sciences: 7.6
Biological: 8.3
But I think the US News underreports, because they list MSUCHM as a 28, Wayne as a 29, and MSUCOM as a 25 on the mcat...and all 3 im pretty sure are higher than that. So, can someone satisfy my curiosity and provide a link to the MSAR DO version (if one exists), I can't seem to find it. Thanks in advance.
 
I think the bottom line is that when it comes to being a GP, DO is a better way to go with the special OMT learning. But to be a specialist, it is better to be an MD.

The education is just as good for each and probably no matter where you go but the opportunities to get the specialty you want in a location you want is better for MD.

One day that might change but it isnt going to happen anytime soon.

And for this year on June 1 Ill have everything already done.
 
I think the bottom line is that when it comes to being a GP, DO is a better way to go with the special OMT learning. But to be a specialist, it is better to be an MD.

Just a minor, but not insignificant correction here: there are essentially no more GP's being produced. In this day and age, every field is considered a specialty and every residency is at least three years long. Also, I don't completely agree with your assessment. I think you are probably going to be better off, at least at the onset, attending an allopathic medical school, if you are considering highly competitive allopathic residency programs, otherwise, the advantages are likely to be diminishing, in my opinion.

The education is just as good for each and probably no matter where you go but the opportunities to get the specialty you want in a location you want is better for MD.

There's practically no difference in education. I think there is going to be some contribution from what school you attend, but if you can't hold up your end of the bargain, no matter what school you go to, it won't help you that much.

One day that might change but it isnt going to happen anytime soon.

I can't comment on this. I do hope that any disparity that still exists gets resolved sooner than later. Sometimes I get pissed off with in-fighting and the opening up of new schools without reinforcing the quantity and quality of GME programs, etc., however, as a whole, I am pretty satisfied with how everything is evolving.

And for this year on June 1 Ill have everything already done.

Do what you think is best for you. Good luck! 👍
 
I hope it changes too SpicyManna. I appreciate your comments they have been exceedingly helpful.

The disparity for competitive residencies is unfair but nonetheless, still exists.

Next year I will apply to a broader range of schools, including DO.

I loved LECOM and the DO philosophy but if I do not want to go to a school that has the potential form keeping me from where I want to go... wherever that may be. My relationship with my girlfiend is strong and Ill see her on the weekends next year. UCF and LECOM are only 2 hrs away.

For now, its just waiting to hear back from Drexel!
 
I think the bottom line is that when it comes to being a GP, DO is a better way to go with the special OMT learning. But to be a specialist, it is better to be an MD.

The education is just as good for each and probably no matter where you go but the opportunities to get the specialty you want in a location you want is better for MD.

One day that might change but it isnt going to happen anytime soon.

And for this year on June 1 Ill have everything already done.

Just out of curiosity, you do realize most of the people whose advice your taking in this thread, most probably, won't get into either an MD or DO program?
 
No, of course not, but it does suggest that the DO degree is a liability in the allopathic match.

Or the DO's stats and performance are simply not as competitive as the MD's.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J1515 View Post
Or the DO's stats and performance are simply not as competitive as the MD's.


Or there is still a bias in the higher end specialties because a lot of program directors were trained before the degrees were pretty much equal.

Now, stop trying to be inflammatory.

I cited another possibility for the explanation of the statistics. Worry about getting into a medical school first and get some experience, then you can talk about what is inflammatory, speculation, or pure truth.
 
I think you should take your acceptance and run with it. At least you have an acceptance at a medical school! There is no gaurantee that you will have better luck next year, don't risk it unless you are 100% certain that you can get that MD seat and if it really matters.
 
You have to do whatever feels best for you. There's no one right answer. I have an acceptance to a DO school and I'm waiting to hear back from my state MD school. I am planning on taking the DO spot if my state school doesn't come through. I, however, don't care about whether I have an MD or a DO degree. Also, I am 29 (not ancient, but older than average) and I would like to get started with medical school and not wait another year. I do not feel like I'm "settling" by possibly attending the DO school. If you are always going to feel negatively about it, wait for the MD. If you want to start your medical education ASAP, go with the DO. Both will ultimately get you where you want to go.
 
Just as your undergrad institution will be a factor considered by medical schools for entrance, so too will your medical school be a factor considered by residency directors for entrance. MD is to DO as bigger-name-undergrad is to lesser-known-undergrad. It's borne out in the statistics and the people who are reluctant to accept it come across as defensive.
 
Where did you see this at? I'm probably missing something on the site, can someone point me in the right direction, cause the only thing I see at PCOM's admissions site is:

Q. Who attends PCOM?
A. In 2004, the [B]entering D.O. Class of 2007[/B] consisted of 254 first-time students from 136 different colleges and 27 states. The average class GPA was 3.38, the science GPA was 3.45 and the mean MCAT score was 24. Students averaged 24 years of age; 56 percent are women and 20 percent are under-represented minorities. PCOM encourages nontraditional students. In the entering class, 21 percent have graduate degrees, 28 percent have had other careers and six percent are military veterans.

But that's for 2004, so it's obviously dated and it would make sense that their admissions numbers would increase. This site is more up to date it appears, being updated in 2006, but it lists PCOM as having a 24.55.

And the US News 07-08 lists PCOM as:
Average undergraduate GPA: 3.3

MCAT
Overall score (composite): 8.0
Verbal reasoning: 8.2
Physical sciences: 7.6
Biological: 8.3
But I think the US News underreports, because they list MSUCHM as a 28, Wayne as a 29, and MSUCOM as a 25 on the mcat...and all 3 im pretty sure are higher than that. So, can someone satisfy my curiosity and provide a link to the MSAR DO version (if one exists), I can't seem to find it. Thanks in advance.


That was for the class that graduated last year. We are now talking about 2010, 2011, 2012 ENTERING classes.
 
That was for the class that graduated last year. We are now talking about 2010, 2011, 2012 ENTERING classes.



I'd be very shocked to see the average MCAT go up 4-5 points and the average GPA go up ~.3 points in that time span. I've been surprised before though....
 
Just as your undergrad institution will be a factor considered by medical schools for entrance, so too will your medical school be a factor considered by residency directors for entrance. MD is to DO as bigger-name-undergrad is to lesser-known-undergrad. It's borne out in the statistics and the people who are reluctant to accept it come across as defensive.

Says the guy, so authoritatively on the subject, who has yet to begin medical school. I think that it is considered a factor alright, but there are also a host of factors, just like medical school admissions. Actually, there are probably more factors... Anyway, each program director is going to have biases; it is probably a good idea to view each of the programs individually, rather than making broad-stroke generalizations.

I think if there is going to be some kind of general issue, it would be with the highly competitive ACGME programs, or programs who do not currently have DO's as residents. And this is perfectly understandable.
 
Just as your undergrad institution will be a factor considered by medical schools for entrance, so too will your medical school be a factor considered by residency directors for entrance. MD is to DO as bigger-name-undergrad is to lesser-known-undergrad. It's borne out in the statistics and the people who are reluctant to accept it come across as defensive.

The variability between undergraduate institutions is much larger than between medical schools.

You could make a case that better students go to the better undergrad schools and so they do better on the MCAT etc. so they will preferentially get in.

Sure your medical school is included in the factors for residency selection but it is pretty low on the list.

Generally things matter are:
1) Board scores
2) 3rd year clerkships
3) LORs
4) Doing an away rotation at the given hospital
5) 1st and 2nd year grades
6) Research
7) ECs
8) School


I'm sure I missed a few important things but you get the idea.
 
something else to consider, what specialty are you planning on going into. surgey? than i say an extra yr may suck as residency is already 5 yrs. emergency medicine??not as bad as residency is only 3.


****I know this is a double post, but I want both MD and DO opinions. Moderators: Please don't close me. 🙂

Guys and gals, I need some help making a decision.

I'm a senior rounding out the application cycle. Had one interview at Drexel, havent heard back yet.

I have the option of applying D.O. right now at LECOM and, if I'm accepted, living the next 4 years with my girlfriend who will probably be my wife when I graduate or taking another undergraduate year to raise my GPA and apply to MD then. I love the idea of LECOM and the DO philosophy too but I dont want to go if MD will be better for my career or if DO will be a substantial setback for my career. But on the otherhand being with my girlfriend could make things exponentially less stressful. My passion for MD or DO is the same (and substantial).

I applied relatively broadly, 16 schools. Only 4 rejections so far.

Stats:
MCAT 32P
GPA
FR 3.1
SO 3.3
JU 3.9
SE* 3.9

*Fall only

Getting the A's isnt a problem for me anymore.

Which is better for my career, MD or DO? Ive researched both and the only significant difference I could find is the lack of respect for DOs from MDs.

How much will this hamper my future career?

Are DOs really on the rise, or will their admissions stats always just flounder right below MD?

What is the right decision?
 
something else to consider, what specialty are you planning on going into. surgey? than i say an extra yr may suck as residency is already 5 yrs. emergency medicine??not as bad as residency is only 3.

Surgery is minimum 5 years, some are six, eight, twelve....
 
Nope I dont! Sorry, I should have made that more apparent at the getgo. I ain't in anywhere folks!

Just go to the school if you get in. The competition is increasing every year, it will be more harder to get into MD or DO school next year than it is this year. Ofcourse, next year you will be applying early, but still, if I were you, I would just go the school I got in. I did enough research and came to the conclusion that the only verifiable discrimination you find against DOs is among premeds and some ignorant medical students.
 
Just go to the school if you get in. The competition is increasing every year, it will be more harder to get into MD or DO school next year than it is this year. Ofcourse, next year you will be applying early, but still, if I were you, I would just go the school I got in. I did enough research and came to the conclusion that the only verifiable discrimination you find against DOs is among premeds and some ignorant medical students.

Thats what I think so too. But if I want a competitive residency later on, then I should be an MD. Why risk it? I should strive to be as competitive as possible. If a school doesnt take me this year, Im gonna apply to both kinds next but choose MD over DO. This seems most rational.
 
Thats what I think so too. But if I want a competitive residency later on, then I should be an MD. Why risk it? I should strive to be as competitive as possible. If a school doesnt take me this year, Im gonna apply to both kinds next but choose MD over DO. This seems most rational.
Then why apply DO at all? If you're not willing to budge due to prestige save yourself the money (and us the hassle 😉).
 
Some input,

PCOM's averages are now up to the following:

3.6
29 MCAT

That was for the class that graduated last year. We are now talking about 2010, 2011, 2012 ENTERING classes.

So do you have a link for this, or did you just pull these ridiculous numbers out of your butt because you thought they sounded good?
 
Says the guy, so authoritatively on the subject, who has yet to begin medical school. I think that it is considered a factor alright, but there are also a host of factors, just like medical school admissions. Actually, there are probably more factors... Anyway, each program director is going to have biases; it is probably a good idea to view each of the programs individually, rather than making broad-stroke generalizations.

I think if there is going to be some kind of general issue, it would be with the highly competitive ACGME programs, or programs who do not currently have DO's as residents. And this is perfectly understandable.

What's this in bold? Do they teach people a different version of statistics in medical school? Will I be able to read basic statistics better when I've gotten to 4th year? Chief resident? Practicing physician?

Of course it's just one of many factors, and it's hardly the most important factor. But nowhere in my post did I say that anyway... If you can manage, try to think before you speak.
 
The variability between undergraduate institutions is much larger than between medical schools.

You could make a case that better students go to the better undergrad schools and so they do better on the MCAT etc. so they will preferentially get in.

Sure your medical school is included in the factors for residency selection but it is pretty low on the list.

Generally things matter are:
1) Board scores
2) 3rd year clerkships
3) LORs
4) Doing an away rotation at the given hospital
5) 1st and 2nd year grades
6) Research
7) ECs
8) School


I'm sure I missed a few important things but you get the idea.

I agree, but I think you'll agree too that my analogy gets the point across. I know I didn't spell it out in my post, but yes there are many other factors which are more important. My point is simply that your school is a factor, even though it's probably never going to make or break you.
 
Let's concede, for argument sake, that for a tiny few specialities like critical care medicine and radiology, if you are not an exceptional DO, it may--"may"--be harder to find a residency. Let's also conceded that the big medical centers have, in general, either unequivocally discriminated against DO's or just happened to keep them out of these few programs. (There are plenty of surgical residencies (DO and non-DO) for DO's around the country. It's much harder to find a DO wanting a competitive surgical specialty who didn't get it than those who did.) If you have zero clue what you med you want to do and feel you just may want interventional radiology and will be heart broken if it's hard for you to nab it, yes, you may want to hold out. But such a person would also need to realize that purely by statistics, not taking into account who you are, the deck is stacked against anyone wanting these specialities who doesn't come from that a school on that short list--and, to be sure, that list doesn't include the least known MD schools, the deck is stacked against them the same way. How many people from obscure MD's land these residencies that critics charge DO schols with being unable to provide.

A good argument against this, though, is the simple fact that if you really want interventional radiology, you wont listen to us and will just do what you have to get it, and you will get it. The joke in this whole debate is that steely resolve trumps all of us. No annonymous poster will ever be able to prove that a particular premed will never get a particular residency. Thus, if you want the rarest specialities, you have to be stellar no matter what, regardless of whether you're MD or DO.

Now the notion that the schools with the most prestige and the highest numerical entrance standards is preposterous, first because the data to suport it is there, but it's conclusions are mild and certainly not unequivocal--I'm thinking about the MCAT people's research. But also, inevitably, such logic would lead one to conclude that, by a purely numerical standard, well, most state universities, with a rare few exceptions, pale in comparison to the top ten "US News" MD's. Well, by that logic, so do most private MD programs as well. The conclusion necessarily must be that if you don't graduate from harvard or hopkins, well, you must be an inadequate doctor. No reasonable person would agree with this. They certainly wouldn't dare to do so in public. Maybe over a glass of burbon at the harvard club, but no flesh and blood people, who just want to have their family see a doctor. Such people don't give a poop how magnificient a big schooler thinks he is.

The other problem with the numerical standard is there are at least three DO schools--and probably more--that have higher numerical standards than some md schools, namely michigan state, des moines, and north texas. So are these schools "better." By now, any reader of this probably thinks this line of reasoning is crazy and he/she would be right.

Plus I have received more--more!--admissions offers from MD programs than DO programs. Everyone assumes that DO's admissions come from their bottom feeding. My case showed me that this is not without its controversy. My numbers are decent 3.65/31, especially by DO standards, and I got into fewer DO schools. I was pretty surprised and called up the schools, and they said that my health care peace corps experience wasn't sufficient. That's a pretty high extracurricular standard if you ask me, and it suggests that DO's have different admissions priorities.

Most premed students who apply exclusively md don't give DO's a fair shake and usually know nothing about oseopathic medicine other than that the numerical admission standards are lower.

Please do me a favor: don't listen to those kinds of premeds. They simply don't know what they're talking about. Find someone knowledgeable and do your own research.

Saying "Don't apply DO" is like saying only apply to the Ivy's for college. They're the only ones who provide decent education. If you don't get in, go get an expensive grad degree and support you and your family financially for a whole year. It's really a skam, this premed degree industry, except for those who know what they're getting into. Honestly, I doubt the magic letters are worth the 30 or 40 k, a kid will have to bleed out to satisfy the egos of these places.

I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I'm so sick of hearing that DO schools are totally inferior. It's like saying all repubs are inferior to all dems. It's such an insensitivie and stupid political statement, who would ever want to defend it?
 
Let's concede, for argument sake, that for a tiny few specialities like critical care medicine and radiology, if you are not an exceptional DO, it may--"may"--be harder to find a residency. Let's also conceded that the big medical centers have, in general, either unequivocally discriminated against DO's or just happened to keep them out of these few programs. (There are plenty of surgical residencies (DO and non-DO) for DO's around the country. It's much harder to find a DO wanting a competitive surgical specialty who didn't get it than one who did.) If you have zero clue what med you want to do and feel you just may want interventional radiology and will be heart broken if it's hard for you to nab it, yes, you may want to hold out. But such a person would also need to realize that purely by statistics, not taking into account who you are, the deck is stacked against anyone wanting these specialities who doesn't come from a school on that short list--and, to be sure, that list doesn't include the least known MD schools, the deck is stacked against them the same way. How many people from individual obscure MD's land these residencies that critics charge DO schols with being unable to provide?

A good argument against this, though, is the simple fact that if you really want interventional radiology, you wont listen to us and will just do what you have to get it, and you will get it. The joke in this whole debate is that steely resolve trumps all of us. No annonymous poster will ever be able to prove that a particular premed will never get a particular residency. Thus, if you want the rarest specialities, you have to be stellar no matter what, regardless of whether you're MD or DO.

Now the notion that the schools with the most prestige and the highest numerical entrance standards are the best is preposterous, first because the data to suport it is there, but it's conclusions are mild and certainly not unequivocal--I'm thinking about the MCAT people's research. But also, inevitably, such logic would lead one to conclude that, by a purely numerical standard, well, most state universities, with a rare few exceptions, pale in comparison to the top ten "US News" MD's. Well, by that logic, so do most private MD programs as well. The conclusion necessarily must be that if you don't graduate from harvard or hopkins, well, you must be an inadequate doctor. No reasonable person would agree with this. They certainly wouldn't dare to do so in public. Maybe over a glass of burbon at the harvard club, but no flesh and blood people, who just want to have their family see a doctor. Such people don't give a poop how magnificient a big schooler thinks he is.

The other problem with the numerical standard is there are at least three DO schools--and probably more--that have higher numerical standards than some md schools, namely michigan state, des moines, and north texas. So are these schools "better"? By now, any reader of this probably thinks this line of reasoning is crazy, and he/she would be right.

Plus I have received more--more!--admissions offers from MD programs than DO programs. Everyone assumes that DO's admissions come from their bottom feeding. My case showed me that this is not without its controversy as well. My numbers are decent 3.65/31, especially by DO standards, and I got into fewer DO schools. I was pretty surprised and called up the schools, and they said that my health care peace corps experience wasn't sufficient. That's a pretty high extracurricular standard if you ask me, and it suggests that DO's have different admissions priorities.

Most premed students who apply exclusively md don't give DO's a fair shake and usually know nothing about oseopathic medicine other than that the numerical admission standards are lower.

Please do me a favor: don't listen to those kinds of premeds. They simply don't know what they're talking about. Find someone knowledgeable and do your own research.

Saying "Don't apply DO" is like saying only apply to the Ivy's for college. They're the only ones who provide decent education. If you don't get in, go get an expensive grad degree and support you and your family financially for a whole year. It's really a skam, this premed degree industry, except for those who know what they're getting into. Honestly, I doubt the magic letters are worth the 30 or 40 k, a kid will have to bleed out to satisfy the egos of these places.

I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I'm so sick of hearing that DO schools are totally inferior. It's like saying all repubs are inferior to all dems. It's such an insensitivie and stupid political statement, who would ever want to defend it? (And I am a liberal-leaning guy.)
 
Let's concede, for argument sake, that for a tiny few specialities like critical care medicine and radiology, if you are not an exceptional DO, it may--"may"--be harder to find a residency. Let's also conceded that the big medical centers have, in general, either unequivocally discriminated against DO's or just happened to keep them out of these few programs. (There are plenty of surgical residencies (DO and non-DO) for DO's around the country. It's much harder to find a DO wanting a competitive surgical specialty who didn't get it than one who did.) If you have zero clue what med you want to do and feel you just may want interventional radiology and will be heart broken if it's hard for you to nab it, yes, you may want to hold out. But such a person would also need to realize that purely by statistics, not taking into account who you are, the deck is stacked against anyone wanting these specialities who doesn't come from a school on that short list--and, to be sure, that list doesn't include the least known MD schools, the deck is stacked against them the same way. How many people from individual obscure MD's land these residencies that critics charge DO schols with being unable to provide?

A good argument against this, though, is the simple fact that if you really want interventional radiology, you wont listen to us and will just do what you have to get it, and you will get it. The joke in this whole debate is that steely resolve trumps all of us. No annonymous poster will ever be able to prove that a particular premed will never get a particular residency. Thus, if you want the rarest specialities, you have to be stellar no matter what, regardless of whether you're MD or DO.

Now the notion that the schools with the most prestige and the highest numerical entrance standards is preposterous, first because the data to suport it is there, but it's conclusions are mild and certainly not unequivocal--I'm thinking about the MCAT people's research. But also, inevitably, such logic would lead one to conclude that, by a purely numerical standard, well, most state universities, with a rare few exceptions, pale in comparison to the top ten "US News" MD's. Well, by that logic, so do most private MD programs as well. The conclusion necessarily must be that if you don't graduate from harvard or hopkins, well, you must be an inadequate doctor. No reasonable person would agree with this. They certainly wouldn't dare to do so in public. Maybe over a glass of burbon at the harvard club, but no flesh and blood people, who just want to have their family see a doctor. Such people don't give a poop how magnificient a big schooler thinks he is.

The other problem with the numerical standard is there are at least three DO schools--and probably more--that have higher numerical standards than some md schools, namely michigan state, des moines, and north texas. So are these schools "better"? By now, any reader of this probably thinks this line of reasoning is crazy, and he/she would be right.

Plus I have received more--more!--admissions offers from MD programs than DO programs. Everyone assumes that DO's admissions come from their bottom feeding. My case showed me that this is not without its controversy as well. My numbers are decent 3.65/31, especially by DO standards, and I got into fewer DO schools. I was pretty surprised and called up the schools, and they said that my health care peace corps experience wasn't sufficient. That's a pretty high extracurricular standard if you ask me, and it suggests that DO's have different admissions priorities.

Most premed students who apply exclusively md don't give DO's a fair shake and usually know nothing about oseopathic medicine other than that the numerical admission standards are lower.

Please do me a favor: don't listen to those kinds of premeds. They simply don't know what they're talking about. Find someone knowledgeable and do your own research.

Saying "Don't apply DO" is like saying only apply to the Ivy's for college. They're the only ones who provide decent education. If you don't get in, go get an expensive grad degree and support you and your family financially for a whole year. It's really a skam, this premed degree industry, except for those who know what they're getting into. Honestly, I doubt the magic letters are worth the 30 or 40 k, a kid will have to bleed out to satisfy the egos of these places.

I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I'm so sick of hearing that DO schools are totally inferior. It's like saying all repubs are inferior to all dems. It's such an insensitivie and stupid political statement, who would ever want to defend it? (And I am a liberal-learning guy.)

I'm sorry, but you are way too logical and reasonable to be a member of SDN. I'm afraid I'm going to have to report you.
 
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