DO now or MD in 1-2 years?

[fisko82]

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Let's concede, for argument sake, that for a tiny few specialities like critical care medicine and radiology, if you are not an exceptional DO, it may--"may"--be harder to find a residency. Let's also conceded that the big medical centers have, in general, either unequivocally discriminated against DO's or just happened to keep them out of these few programs. (There are plenty of surgical residencies (DO and non-DO) for DO's around the country. It's much harder to find a DO wanting a competitive surgical specialty who didn't get it than one who did.) If you have zero clue what med you want to do and feel you just may want interventional radiology and will be heart broken if it's hard for you to nab it, yes, you may want to hold out. But such a person would also need to realize that purely by statistics, not taking into account who you are, the deck is stacked against anyone wanting these specialities who doesn't come from a school on that short list--and, to be sure, that list doesn't include the least known MD schools, the deck is stacked against them the same way. How many people from individual obscure MD's land these residencies that critics charge DO schols with being unable to provide?

A good argument against this, though, is the simple fact that if you really want interventional radiology, you wont listen to us and will just do what you have to get it, and you will get it. The joke in this whole debate is that steely resolve trumps all of us. No annonymous poster will ever be able to prove that a particular premed will never get a particular residency. Thus, if you want the rarest specialities, you have to be stellar no matter what, regardless of whether you're MD or DO.

Now the notion that the schools with the most prestige and the highest numerical entrance standards are the best is preposterous, first because the data to suport it is there, but it's conclusions are mild and certainly not unequivocal--I'm thinking about the MCAT people's research. But also, inevitably, such logic would lead one to conclude that, by a purely numerical standard, well, most state universities, with a rare few exceptions, pale in comparison to the top ten "US News" MD's. Well, by that logic, so do most private MD programs as well. The conclusion necessarily must be that if you don't graduate from harvard or hopkins, well, you must be an inadequate doctor. No reasonable person would agree with this. They certainly wouldn't dare to do so in public. Maybe over a glass of burbon at the harvard club, but no flesh and blood people, who just want to have their family see a doctor. Such people don't give a poop how magnificient a big schooler thinks he is.

The other problem with the numerical standard is there are at least three DO schools--and probably more--that have higher numerical standards than some md schools, namely michigan state, des moines, and north texas. So are these schools "better"? By now, any reader of this probably thinks this line of reasoning is crazy, and he/she would be right.

Plus I have received more--more!--admissions offers from MD programs than DO programs. Everyone assumes that DO's admissions come from their bottom feeding. My case showed me that this is not without its controversy as well. My numbers are decent 3.65/31, especially by DO standards, and I got into fewer DO schools. I was pretty surprised and called up the schools, and they said that my health care peace corps experience wasn't sufficient. That's a pretty high extracurricular standard if you ask me, and it suggests that DO's have different admissions priorities.

Most premed students who apply exclusively md don't give DO's a fair shake and usually know nothing about oseopathic medicine other than that the numerical admission standards are lower.

Please do me a favor: don't listen to those kinds of premeds. They simply don't know what they're talking about. Find someone knowledgeable and do your own research.

Saying "Don't apply DO" is like saying only apply to the Ivy's for college. They're the only ones who provide decent education. If you don't get in, go get an expensive grad degree and support you and your family financially for a whole year. It's really a skam, this premed degree industry, except for those who know what they're getting into. Honestly, I doubt the magic letters are worth the 30 or 40 k, a kid will have to bleed out to satisfy the egos of these places.

I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I'm so sick of hearing that DO schools are totally inferior. It's like saying all repubs are inferior to all dems. It's such an insensitivie and stupid political statement, who would ever want to defend it? (And I am a liberal-leaning guy.)

😕

How long did it take you to type all that up?

 

[J1515]

Thank God we have all these pre-meds to tell us medical students and residents how things work in the real world. I think with the amount of knowledge you guys have you should just bypass med school all together and start treating patients right away. Besides, you'd probably have a better shot at that neurocardiothoracicradiationoncology residency, as long as you don't have those dreaded "D.O." letters after your name

 

[endocardium]

What's this in bold? Do they teach people a different version of statistics in medical school? Will I be able to read basic statistics better when I've gotten to 4th year? Chief resident? Practicing physician?

Of course it's just one of many factors, and it's hardly the most important factor. But nowhere in my post did I say that anyway... If you can manage, try to think before you speak.

Well, I did think before I wrote my message and I was having a difficult time understanding why you'd choose to highlight this rather insignificant point. I thought, it must be because you have no practical experience with the process, so I just stated the obvious. It's way down the list of importance. I was trying to clarify that, so folks don't get the wrong message.

I know I sort of started it by insinuating about your competency to speak about the issue as a premedical student, but let's not continue to take this into personal attack territory.

 

[VoiceofReason]

Well, I did think before I wrote my message and I was having a difficult time understanding why you'd choose to highlight this rather insignificant point. I thought, it must be because you have no practical experience with the process, so I just stated the obvious. It's way down the list of importance. I was trying to clarify that, so folks don't get the wrong message.

I know I sort of started it by insinuating about your competency to speak about the issue as a premedical student, but let's not continue to take this into personal attack territory.

No problem.

 

[167649]

Let's concede, for argument sake, that for a tiny few specialities like critical care medicine and radiology, if you are not an exceptional DO, it may--"may"--be harder to find a residency. Let's also conceded that the big medical centers have, in general, either unequivocally discriminated against DO's or just happened to keep them out of these few programs. (There are plenty of surgical residencies (DO and non-DO) for DO's around the country. It's much harder to find a DO wanting a competitive surgical specialty who didn't get it than one who did.) If you have zero clue what med you want to do and feel you just may want interventional radiology and will be heart broken if it's hard for you to nab it, yes, you may want to hold out. But such a person would also need to realize that purely by statistics, not taking into account who you are, the deck is stacked against anyone wanting these specialities who doesn't come from a school on that short list--and, to be sure, that list doesn't include the least known MD schools, the deck is stacked against them the same way. How many people from individual obscure MD's land these residencies that critics charge DO schols with being unable to provide?

A good argument against this, though, is the simple fact that if you really want interventional radiology, you wont listen to us and will just do what you have to get it, and you will get it. The joke in this whole debate is that steely resolve trumps all of us. No annonymous poster will ever be able to prove that a particular premed will never get a particular residency. Thus, if you want the rarest specialities, you have to be stellar no matter what, regardless of whether you're MD or DO.

Now the notion that the schools with the most prestige and the highest numerical entrance standards are the best is preposterous, first because the data to suport it is there, but it's conclusions are mild and certainly not unequivocal--I'm thinking about the MCAT people's research. But also, inevitably, such logic would lead one to conclude that, by a purely numerical standard, well, most state universities, with a rare few exceptions, pale in comparison to the top ten "US News" MD's. Well, by that logic, so do most private MD programs as well. The conclusion necessarily must be that if you don't graduate from harvard or hopkins, well, you must be an inadequate doctor. No reasonable person would agree with this. They certainly wouldn't dare to do so in public. Maybe over a glass of burbon at the harvard club, but no flesh and blood people, who just want to have their family see a doctor. Such people don't give a poop how magnificient a big schooler thinks he is.

The other problem with the numerical standard is there are at least three DO schools--and probably more--that have higher numerical standards than some md schools, namely michigan state, des moines, and north texas. So are these schools "better"? By now, any reader of this probably thinks this line of reasoning is crazy, and he/she would be right.

Plus I have received more--more!--admissions offers from MD programs than DO programs. Everyone assumes that DO's admissions come from their bottom feeding. My case showed me that this is not without its controversy as well. My numbers are decent 3.65/31, especially by DO standards, and I got into fewer DO schools. I was pretty surprised and called up the schools, and they said that my health care peace corps experience wasn't sufficient. That's a pretty high extracurricular standard if you ask me, and it suggests that DO's have different admissions priorities.

Most premed students who apply exclusively md don't give DO's a fair shake and usually know nothing about oseopathic medicine other than that the numerical admission standards are lower.

Please do me a favor: don't listen to those kinds of premeds. They simply don't know what they're talking about. Find someone knowledgeable and do your own research.

Saying "Don't apply DO" is like saying only apply to the Ivy's for college. They're the only ones who provide decent education. If you don't get in, go get an expensive grad degree and support you and your family financially for a whole year. It's really a skam, this premed degree industry, except for those who know what they're getting into. Honestly, I doubt the magic letters are worth the 30 or 40 k, a kid will have to bleed out to satisfy the egos of these places.

I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I'm so sick of hearing that DO schools are totally inferior. It's like saying all repubs are inferior to all dems. It's such an insensitivie and stupid political statement, who would ever want to defend it? (And I am a liberal-leaning guy.)

That is way too much for an MD vs DO thread.

 

[Ian1223]

MD = wont discrimination

DO = might discriminate

Solution....

Choose MD for a definate no discrimination and once success occurs, dont discriminate against anyone!!!

I win! and future doctors of the world do too.

 

[Futuredoctr]

Seriously?😕 Your of 1% of 1% of 1% to be given the opportunity for a medical education, and your wondering if you should wait a year based on the letters behind your name. Tool. I chose DO and after seeing the facilities and having friends attend allopathic schools I believe I am recieving a better education in a better institution.

 

[Ian1223]

Seriously?😕 Your of 1% of 1% of 1% to be given the opportunity for a medical education, and your wondering if you should wait a year based on the letters behind your name. Tool. I chose DO and after seeing the facilities and having friends attend allopathic schools I believe I am recieving a better education in a better institution.

Find the facts, check my mdapps!

 

[Futuredoctr]

Find the facts, check my mdapps!

The reason your not getting the interviews is because look at your profile, they all see RIGHT past it. The subject of the this post says it all

 

[fisko82]

The reason your not getting the interviews is because look at your profile, they all see RIGHT past it. The subject of the this post says it all

I think the poster is probably referring to the fact that you suggest he's giving up an opportunity to receive a medical education, when he has yet to be accepted anywhere. I could be wrong though, it's happened before.

 

[167649]

The reason your not getting the interviews is because look at your profile, they all see RIGHT past it. The subject of the this post says it all

Right past what?

 

[Futuredoctr]

You know, I was guilty of it too, but there is so much more to getting into medical school than stats. You can totally tell the people who got in because of stats and those who are legitimate people. I think this is a ridiculous post.

 

[Ian1223]

Right past what?

And I think futuredoc thinks "easy to see past" means the admins can see through the attempt at conveying my passion for medicine.

The reason he thinks my attempt is a veil is because of the question I'm asking, Which is a question people ask when theyre looking for evil prestige.


Is this a challenge to prove my passion?

Are the only passionate doctors the DOs?

 

[167649]

And I think futuredoc thinks "easy to see past" means the admins can see through the attempt at conveying my passion for medicine.

The reason he thinks my attempt is a veil is because of the question I'm asking, Which is a question people ask when theyre looking for evil prestige.


Is this a challenge to prove my passion?

Are the only passionate doctors the DOs?

I see, but I don't think he or anyone on SDN is in the position to judge your passion for medicine. That is impossible to know just by looking at an MD apps page, nor is it possible to know only because you posted a question on an anonymous internet forum. There could be any number of factors as to why you have not recieved more interviews.

 

[Ian1223]

My apps were done mid Sept to mid Oct which isnt early

When I applied I had a 3.43, which is now a 3.48, also very low.

I do have rising gpa though.
3.1
3.3
3.9
3.9 *fall only

Tons of volunteering experience and at least 100 hrs in a lab
but
no pubs
and
Only one semester of shadowing actual doctors. That hurts too.


I have faith in myself.

Maybe DO would be better but...
the smartest doctors are MDs and thats where I want to be.
The hospitals they get residencies in have better programs and most importantly...
better opportunities.

So maybe it wouldnt.

Just so people know... Im still going to apply to DOs next year too. Is it really the same or isnt it? Anybody know any DOs get into prestigious residencies? Maybe you could tell me their story!

 

[Tamburlaine]

Elmo,

What do you want people to tell you?

It sounds like you have an admissions strategy, this year and next, and it's a good one: apply as broadly as possible. You can't go wrong. If your app is as good as you feel it is, you'll get some interviews. Then do what everyone else does: go and check out the schools. It sounds like you're neurotic about the md/do thing, so, for your sake, I hope you get into a school you like.

If you have the money for next year, then go take more classes and maybe that will pull up your gpa. Remember, though: time is working against you. You can't show the grade improvement the very year you're taking the courses, so it sounds like you have a two-year wait. And if you're cool with that, then fine. Personally, I think waiting two years for any med school, or anything else for that matter, is silly. (Trust me: drexel is not worth two years and the money; a DO would give you the exact same opps. I know from personal experience that drexel is a place that recovered from disaster and has nothing on any institution.)

Above all, though, don't kid yourself: getting into any medical school (allo or osteo) ain't easy, and I would think very hard before turning any of them down to go spend more money on non-med school education.

 

[lacesoutdan]

My apps were done mid Sept to mid Oct which isnt early

When I applied I had a 3.43, which is now a 3.48, also very low.

I do have rising gpa though.
3.1
3.3
3.9
3.9 *fall only

Tons of volunteering experience and at least 100 hrs in a lab
but
no pubs
and
Only one semester of shadowing actual doctors. That hurts too.

Your application looks good. If you don't get in this cycle, it'll be because you applied so late. If you apply broadly on the first possible day this year, your chances of getting into an American MD program are very good.

 

[Ian1223]

Thanks SDN heroes. Ok no more wasting time, got to pay attention in class.

Peace

 

[MaximusD]

I think the bottom line is that when it comes to being a GP, DO is a better way to go with the special OMT learning. But to be a specialist, it is better to be an MD.

The education is just as good for each and probably no matter where you go but the opportunities to get the specialty you want in a location you want is better for MD.

One day that might change but it isnt going to happen anytime soon.

And for this year on June 1 Ill have everything already done.

Goddammit! No wonder JP GOT PISSED ALL THE TIME!!!

PCOM puts out more specialists than MOST MD SCHOOLS and in major medical centers throughout the northeast!

If you want to pass med school you better learn how to listen!

 

[nlax30]

Thanks SDN heroes. Ok no more wasting time, got to pay attention in class.

Peace

Eh, that's no fun.

Seriously, good luck. Even if you don't hear back for this year you already have everything ready to go for next cycle, just make sure you get everything submitted as early as you can.

Looks like UCF updated their med admissions page with a bunch of info. Could also apply early decision there, looks like they have a 32 MCAT cut-off requirement for the early decision apps, interesting. Going to med school for "free" would be NICE.

 

[Ian1223]

Eh, that's no fun.

Seriously, good luck. Even if you don't hear back for this year you already have everything ready to go for next cycle, just make sure you get everything submitted as early as you can.

Looks like UCF updated their med admissions page with a bunch of info. Could also apply early decision there, looks like they have a 32 MCAT cut-off requirement for the early decision apps, interesting. Going to med school for "free" would be NICE.

M.D. Program Early Decision

Early Decision (ED) is a program for exceptionally motivated, capable, and passionate applicants who have demonstrated excellence in academics. The M.D. Program Admissions Committee reviews applicants to the program in mid-August of the application year. The Admissions Office contacts each ED applicant to advise them of the committee's decision about an interview.
ED Program Guidelines
1. Applicant must be Florida residents currently enrolled as seniors or graduates of an accredited regional university or college in the United States. Students must receive a baccalaureate degree before August of the year they are to enter medical school.

2. Applicant should have an undergraduate cumulative overall and science grade point average of 3.8 or better. Science and English requirements for entrance to the college should be completed.

3. The Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) must be taken no later than the spring of the year students are applying. Students must have a score of at least 32 or better on the MCAT with no score below 8 in any category.

4. An American Medical College Application Service (AMCAS) application and transcripts must be on file in Washington, D. C., prior to August 1 of the year of application.

5. Eligible applicant for ED is interviewed during September of the application year.









If only I had the 3.8.....



Oh well Ill still apply of course.

 

[J1515]

the smartest doctors are MDs and thats where I want to be.

You should bookmark that beauty and show it to your DO resident who will be evaluating you during third and fourth year. Nah, you'll be an MD - you'll be smarter than him lol.

 

[J1515]

Anybody know any DOs get into prestigious residencies? Maybe you could tell me their story!

Yes, I do know of some.

Why so concerned with prestigious residencies? You haven't even completed a rotation yet and have no clue what field you will be entering or if you will even be able to rank in the top half of your class.

I miss JPH 🙁

 

[spicedmanna]

Maybe DO would be better but...
the smartest doctors are MDs and thats where I want to be.
The hospitals they get residencies in have better programs and most importantly...
better opportunities.

So maybe it wouldnt.

What? You can't really be suggesting that the smartest physicians are exclusively MD's. Is this the thought that actually underlies your question? If so, then just forget about applying to osteopathic medical schools; we do not need this sort of negativity and ignorance in our ranks. Perhaps you would be better off going to an allopathic medical school. In any case, I encourage you to become informed.

Just so people know... Im still going to apply to DOs next year too. Is it really the same or isnt it? Anybody know any DOs get into prestigious residencies? Maybe you could tell me their story!

What do you consider prestigious residencies? My school tends to produce more specialist physicians than primary care physicians, contrary to osteopathic trends nationally, and has a 90+ % first-choice match rate. In 2007, we had people going into optho, neurosurgery, gen. surgery, anesthesiology, rads, derm, emed, ent, urology residencies, etc.

 

[nlax30]

Didn't even see their 3.8 requirement.... that would've easily knocked me out as well. 😀 Oh well. I had a bad experience with early decision anyway when I applied, FSU dropped the ball and never contacted me, delaying my application to other places. So it's not always the best option.

Kinda surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet. Especially after the "MDs are smarter comment" LOL I'll ignore that.

Anyway, you wanted some examples: Last semester we had a DO was, if I remember correctly, was doing a neurosurg oncology fellowship at Moffitt here in Tampa. Not too bad. I wouldn't want that lifestyle, but it was pretty fascinating stuff.

During our "hospital day" I was talking with some residency directors from Jacksonville's Mayo clinic and I was surprised at how "DO friendly" they were. They mentioned that they actually have a fairly large number of DOs there in residency. I also want to say that there is a pretty good DO derm residency down in south Florida. I'm not interested in derm so I haven't looked into it, just what I've heard from others.

 

[spicedmanna]

Kinda surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet. Especially after the "MDs are smarter comment" LOL I'll ignore that.

You are a smarter man than I, nlax. 👍 🙂

 

[Ian1223]

g

 

[Ian1223]

What? You can't really be suggesting that the smartest physicians are exclusively MD's.

Food for thought.
Ready?

Rx: To be taken with a grain of salt.

First line:

Hell, I dont know why anyone would wanna be a DO!

All in all, with higher test scores, 100 MD students have more potential than 100 DOs in competition. I wanna be a member of the elite!

I want the opportunity to prove myself to get a more competitive residency to have more options in terms of where I settle down. Gotta gain the respect.

It seems like going MD is like going Ivy but going DO is going public school.

George W. went to Yale and Harvard and he's the president, not because of how smart he is but because of his pedigree and no matter how hard you work to change it thats the way the world is.

MD has the proven history to help me reach farther with my life.

The stats for DO are too low. Doctors should be the creme of the crop not the middle of the road. I want my doctor to be the 3.9, 34, not the 3.4, 24! Wouldnt you?

The greatest doctors have always been MDs.

MD schools are great places to learn.


Second line:

Hell, I dont know why anyone would wanna be an MD!

I can be just as good a doctor anywhere I go no matter what medical school I attend. I control My destiny.

DOs get residencies all over the country and the statistics (94%-70%) arent so bad. Its easier to get in DO so many students dont make the cut for residency when USMLE comes into play. That doesnt mean there is discrimination (maybe..). Besides, DOs are trained to be GPs thats why they have OMT.

You wanna be one of those prestige loving fools, head over to MD school, Im going DO where people go because they dont care what other people think of them. (This one is more neutral I think)

The facts prove that DO is just as good as MD so therefore the laws of supply and demand will settle in eventually and it will be just as hard to get into DOs one day as MD, not that I care of course, because Im gonna make it regardless.

If your role mode is GWB then something is seriously wrong with you.

MD schools are too competitive. Why would I go there when I should just go to xxCOM. My stats are way above their averages, Ill get in for sure!

A great doctor can train anywhere and doesnt need a highfalutin MD school to succeed.

DO schools are great places to learn.


End: Who won?

 

[Saregamapadanis]

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/surgery/housestaff/asb.html

Ian1223, you mean to say this guy is smarter than an MD who didn't get into a competitive surgical residency?

If so, then he is an odd one out?
Your logic is faulty, admit it, the smartest psychologists and researchers cannot figure out what makes one intelligent or what intelligence truly is in the first place, to claim that someone is or isn't intelligent/smart based on the limited capabilities and knowledge you now possess shows nothing but your own bias.

I suggest you go get an MD degree and not apply DO next time, because there isnt any point in getting something and being unsatisfied for the rest of your life, that is, if you can get a DO admission.

 

[UCDavisdude]

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/surgery/housestaff/asb.html

Ian1223, you mean to say this guy is smarter than an MD who didn't get into a competitive surgical residency?

If so, then he is an odd one out?
Your logic is faulty, admit it, the smartest psychologists and researchers cannot figure out what makes one intelligent or what intelligence truly is in the first place, to claim that someone is or isn't intelligent/smart based on the limited capabilities and knowledge you now possess shows nothing but your own bias.

I suggest you go get an MD degree and not apply DO next time, because there isnt any point in getting something and being unsatisfied for the rest of your life, that is, if you can get a DO admission.

didnt you already post that link as an example? or was that someone else.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

didnt you already post that link as an example? or was that someone else.

I took that from another thread in the pre-osteo forum.

 

[UCDavisdude]

for me, it just comes down to the school and its location. not do or md. for instance, id choose pcom,dmu or nycom in an instant over say......un nevada or ros franklin. its what particular schools i have to choose from and which will give me a more likely chance of matching into specific specialties in specific states that i am interested in. some osteo schools match up better head to head against some allo schools. and vice versa.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

For me personally, I don't hope to place my trust in the school to "let me" get a competitive residency. For most things in life, including a competitive residency, if you can work for it, you can get it.

 

[UCDavisdude]

For me personally, I don't hope to place my trust in the school to "let me" get a competitive residency. For most things in life, including a competitive residency, if you can work for it, you can get it.

i never said "let me". i said "which will give me a more likely chancefor SPECIFIC specialties in SPECIFIC states"

mass gen hospital is more likely to take a harvard graduate over a uc davis grad if EVERYTHING IS EQUAL. EVERYTHING. as in same person, same performance, different school affiliation. do you disagree with this?

 

[travoltage]

Now that's just preposterous. Like we're supposed to believe you.

hahahaa

 

[Saregamapadanis]

i never said "let me". i said "which will give me a more likely chance"

mass gen hospital is more likely to take a harvard graduate over a uc davis grad if EVERYTHING IS EQUAL. EVERYTHING. as in same person, same performance, different school affiliation. do you disagree with this?

nah, I didn't think you did. I was just giving my opinion that whether MD or DO you have to work for it, your school doesn't do it for you, thats it, it wasn't directed toward what you said.

with that said, yes it maybe a fact that the school does play a role in that instance, but the probability of having something like that in real life is not very high.

If it is probable, there wouldn't be MDs from mid-tier schools and DOs from DO schools in competitive residencies.

 

[Taty]

for me, it just comes down to the school and its location. not do or md. for instance, id choose pcom,dmu or nycom in an instant over say......un nevada or ros franklin. its what particular schools i have to choose from and which will give me a more likely chance of matching into specific specialties in specific states that i am interested in. some osteo schools match up better head to head against some allo schools. and vice versa.

Agree...I was accepted to 2 MD schools and I chose NYCOM...I don't think that graduating from NYCOM will hurt me....

I MISS JPH....


To OP:
If having MD will make you happier, take year or two off and
try to get in MD school...and better start now instead of wasting your time on sdn writing b#$%^^t...

 

[crazy4clana]

for me, it just comes down to the school and its location. not do or md. for instance, id choose pcom,dmu or nycom in an instant over say......un nevada or ros franklin.

Are you cookoo for coco puffs? Look at their match lists.

 

[travoltage]

not to get off topic...im personally interested in DO, i think it might be were i end up if i do bad on my mcat, with that being said...I HATE AOA. how ironic huh? that rocky vista program, a for profit medical school...what the hell are they thinking, that it will help DO's out? thats so shunned by the medical community and i think that DO's need to revamp the AOA. its bullsh*t. and i think they should open their residencies to MD's. that should lower some stigma between DO and MD...my 2 cents🙂

 

[J1515]

mass gen hospital is more likely to take a harvard graduate over a uc davis grad if EVERYTHING IS EQUAL. EVERYTHING. as in same person, same performance, different school affiliation. do you disagree with this?

I felt a small aneurysm in my brain burst when I read this. Would pre-meds stare at the wall for hours if there was no such thing as SDN?

I need to go find an MD to repair this hemorrhage, I can't listen to you kids anymore.

 

[UCDavisdude]

I felt a small aneurysm in my brain burst when I read this. Would pre-meds stare at the wall for hours if there was no such thing as SDN?

I need to go find an MD to repair this hemorrhage, I can't listen to you kids anymore.

i dont see what the problem is. same goes for uc davis. theyd likely choose a uc davis grad over a harvard grad if the student were from cali, and a uc davis med student. i know the situation doesnt ever occur, its hypothetical. why r u so sensitive.

 

[Ian1223]

The road to success is steep, but as a DO, as is coming from a non-ivy school, it is steeper.

Thats the impression I get.

I gotta do whats best for me.

 

[Pegasus1731]

Let's concede, for argument sake, that for a tiny few specialities like critical care medicine and radiology, if you are not an exceptional DO, it may--"may"--be harder to find a residency. Let's also conceded that the big medical centers have, in general, either unequivocally discriminated against DO's or just happened to keep them out of these few programs. (There are plenty of surgical residencies (DO and non-DO) for DO's around the country. It's much harder to find a DO wanting a competitive surgical specialty who didn't get it than one who did.) If you have zero clue what med you want to do and feel you just may want interventional radiology and will be heart broken if it's hard for you to nab it, yes, you may want to hold out. But such a person would also need to realize that purely by statistics, not taking into account who you are, the deck is stacked against anyone wanting these specialities who doesn't come from a school on that short list--and, to be sure, that list doesn't include the least known MD schools, the deck is stacked against them the same way. How many people from individual obscure MD's land these residencies that critics charge DO schols with being unable to provide?

A good argument against this, though, is the simple fact that if you really want interventional radiology, you wont listen to us and will just do what you have to get it, and you will get it. The joke in this whole debate is that steely resolve trumps all of us. No annonymous poster will ever be able to prove that a particular premed will never get a particular residency. Thus, if you want the rarest specialities, you have to be stellar no matter what, regardless of whether you're MD or DO.

Now the notion that the schools with the most prestige and the highest numerical entrance standards are the best is preposterous, first because the data to suport it is there, but it's conclusions are mild and certainly not unequivocal--I'm thinking about the MCAT people's research. But also, inevitably, such logic would lead one to conclude that, by a purely numerical standard, well, most state universities, with a rare few exceptions, pale in comparison to the top ten "US News" MD's. Well, by that logic, so do most private MD programs as well. The conclusion necessarily must be that if you don't graduate from harvard or hopkins, well, you must be an inadequate doctor. No reasonable person would agree with this. They certainly wouldn't dare to do so in public. Maybe over a glass of burbon at the harvard club, but no flesh and blood people, who just want to have their family see a doctor. Such people don't give a poop how magnificient a big schooler thinks he is.

The other problem with the numerical standard is there are at least three DO schools--and probably more--that have higher numerical standards than some md schools, namely michigan state, des moines, and north texas. So are these schools "better"? By now, any reader of this probably thinks this line of reasoning is crazy, and he/she would be right.

Plus I have received more--more!--admissions offers from MD programs than DO programs. Everyone assumes that DO's admissions come from their bottom feeding. My case showed me that this is not without its controversy as well. My numbers are decent 3.65/31, especially by DO standards, and I got into fewer DO schools. I was pretty surprised and called up the schools, and they said that my health care peace corps experience wasn't sufficient. That's a pretty high extracurricular standard if you ask me, and it suggests that DO's have different admissions priorities.

Most premed students who apply exclusively md don't give DO's a fair shake and usually know nothing about oseopathic medicine other than that the numerical admission standards are lower.

Please do me a favor: don't listen to those kinds of premeds. They simply don't know what they're talking about. Find someone knowledgeable and do your own research.

Saying "Don't apply DO" is like saying only apply to the Ivy's for college. They're the only ones who provide decent education. If you don't get in, go get an expensive grad degree and support you and your family financially for a whole year. It's really a skam, this premed degree industry, except for those who know what they're getting into. Honestly, I doubt the magic letters are worth the 30 or 40 k, a kid will have to bleed out to satisfy the egos of these places.

I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I'm so sick of hearing that DO schools are totally inferior. It's like saying all repubs are inferior to all dems. It's such an insensitivie and stupid political statement, who would ever want to defend it? (And I am a liberal-leaning guy.)

Best post I've seen in a long time! 👍

 

[Saregamapadanis]

The road to success is steep, but as a DO, as is coming from a non-ivy school, it is steeper.

Thats the impression I get.

What is your definition of success? Some people claim that they are successful only when they rule a country, then being an MD or a DO is pretty much useless isn't it? 🙄

Good luck with your future, I am done here. 😀👍

 

[Ian1223]

It seems like the most ethical thing to do is apply to lots of schools, interview at as many as you can, and pick the one you like best, regardless of DO or MD.

Does that satisfy everyone?

None of you are really better than the other youre all Doctors of Medicine and thats the only thing that matters.

 

[Sk8er07]

you also need to take into account the fact that if you are accepted to LECOM and decline in order to reapply MD next year, when schools ask if you have been accepted to medical school before, you are going to have to admit that you have been and you willingly said no.

Isn't that kind of a red flag for an adcom? If people are hesitant as to whether or not they really want to go DO, they technically shouldn't apply/interview in the first place.

 

[87138]

Goddammit! No wonder JP GOT PISSED ALL THE TIME!!!

PCOM puts out more specialists than MOST MD SCHOOLS and in major medical centers throughout the northeast!

If you want to pass med school you better learn how to listen!

FWIW, PCOM puts out more GRADUATES than most MD schools. Your claim is easy to make when the class sizes are so large.

 

[J1515]

i dont see what the problem is. same goes for uc davis. theyd likely choose a uc davis grad over a harvard grad if the student were from cali, and a uc davis med student. i know the situation doesnt ever occur, its hypothetical. why r u so sensitive.

I'm not sensitive. Watching pre-meds trying to rationalize things they don't know about is like bashing your head into the wall repeatedly. You'll understand 3 years from now.

 

[87138]

I, for one, am just happy we finally have a thread dedicated to debating the differences between MDs and DOs. It's about time.

 

[UCDavisdude]

I'm not sensitive. Watching pre-meds trying to rationalize things they don't know about is like bashing your head into the wall repeatedly. You'll understand 3 years from now.

so you wont agree that uc davis is more likely to accept a student from california into thier residency program? because they do try to train dr's that are more likely to stick around in cali. or a west virginia hospital choosing a student that graduated from wvu over a student from california, to limit the number of dr's moving away back to cali after training? im 25 by the way and finished with school, so dont talk down to me like im some kind of freshman pre-med who knows nothing.btw, pull that stick outta your ***. its not my fault u couldnt get into a better school.